Why are religious people try converting us

[Moose]

Unfortunately it's usually the first rule to be thrown out the window too.

I'm curious why you would say that being as how you seem to be an instigator in doing just what you've stated? Are you willing to confess to doing this, or am I left to think that you are just practising it again.

Christians are the majority in my country, and they have the mentality that goes along with it. As such, atheists are generally meek and don't talk much about their beliefs or lack thereof for fear of ridicule and being ostracised.

To be honest with you, if that's what it's like in your country, God despises these so called, "Chrisians" just as much as you do.

I've certainly known that feeling on many an occasion.

Can't you move? I certainly would if I were in your situation......

but atheists on the whole seem a lot better behaved than Christians when it comes to sharing and discussing beliefs.

I beg to differ, especially coming from you......you've literally tried everything under the Sun to get under my saddle......I don't know how you can say this without reservation.....?

[Moose]

but atheists on the whole seem a lot better behaved than Christians when it comes to sharing and discussing beliefs.

Got ya.....good CYA there.....

[quankanne]

Well I am Catholic. I have better things to do then try to convert people. The likelyhood of converting anyone is very slim. Especially atheists. I respect that they have their views, I have mine. As a member of the one and only true religion I am not going to hell. The rest of you are. Have a nice barbeque.

 

:D coco, you are a scream – I attended the funeral of my friend's dad earlier today, a nice Baptist send-off, and I nearly laughed out loud when the preacher said, "Brother Duane wasn't a Baptist, but I believe he was going to heaven." Now how in hell is that supposed to make sense if you're a Christian who believes that baptism entitles you the Kingdom of Heaven? Baptism is open to everyone, not just one little crowd, and even the Catholic Church understands that when she welcomes converts! I felt bad for my friend and her family, who were raised Catholic and believed their daddy merited heaven through his baptism.

 

that aside, my answer to the original poster is sometimes you've just got to say "We can agree to disagree," and leave it at that. Unfortunately, otherwise someone will do their best to bash you over the head thinking that they're going to bring you around to their way of thinking.

 

but atheists on the whole seem a lot better behaved than Christians when it comes to sharing and discussing beliefs.

 

no dear, the person with lovely manners wins that particular round, despite religious background

[Moose]

Now how in hell is that supposed to make sense if you're a Christian who believes that baptism entitles you the Kingdom of Heaven?

Lol....Sorry you had to hold back Q!

 

But to clarify, Baptists don't believe the act of baptism is necessary for salvation.

 

It's simple a public admission that one has recieved Christ as their personal Saviour.....a commandment that places accountablity upon the congregation if you will.....

[quankanne]

well, I was trying to set a good example among the other visitors!

 

will PM you in a sec, so as not to derail this thread, okay?

[disgracian]

To be honest with you, if that's what it's like in your country, God despises these so called, "Chrisians" just as much as you do.

Like most things you say, that's rather extreme. I don't think them bad people for it, it's just an unavoidable part of human nature. I don't think that any group of people that has enjoyed a majority for so long would necessarily be better, and some would probably be worse.

 

It's just something that you grow up with and take for granted. People usually don't even notice it until they become the minority.

Can't you move? I certainly would if I were in your situation

I'm rather heavily invested in where I live. And I don't think there exists a place where everybody respects each others' beliefs or non-beliefs all of the time.

......I beg to differ, especially coming from you......you've literally tried everything under the Sun to get under my saddle......I don't know how you can say this without reservation.....?

Except I did add reservations which, as usual, you are too blind to notice. You also give yourself too much credit. The plain and boring truth is that I, like a lot of others, am generally appalled by your behaviour and simply react by stating why. I have no special desire to annoy you; in fact I am usually the one who is annoyed.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

Like most things you say, that's rather extreme.

I don't know why you'd think that's extreme. It's the truth. Christ used the Pharisees as examples of how Christians are NOT to behave.

I don't think them bad people for it,

Now I'm getting confused....

it's just an unavoidable part of human nature.

I can't agree with that. But hey, what ever floats your boat.

Except I did add reservations which, as usual, you are too blind to notice.

No, I did catch it, and I even posted a retraction.

The plain and boring truth is that I, like a lot of others, am generally appalled by your behaviour and simply react by stating why.

Oh, ok....that makes sense. I just thought you were attacking me. But now that you've made it clear that all I all I am is an annoyance to you, I don't feel so bad.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[Moai]

I don't know why you'd think that's extreme. It's the truth. Christ used the Pharisees as examples of how Christians are NOT to behave.Now I'm getting confused....I can't agree with that. But hey, what ever floats your boat.No, I did catch it, and I even posted a retraction.Oh, ok....that makes sense. I just thought you were attacking me. But now that you've made it clear that all I all I am is an annoyance to you, I don't feel so bad.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I think a lot of people are turned off by some who use things like the argument ad baculum (appeal to force) in religious discussion, and therefore tend to see it when it isn't there.

 

I'm going to re-read the thread, but so far I haven't read anything from you that is annoying, and as I am sure all here are aware I am probably the most vocal, vehement atheists on these boards.

 

That said, when discussing your theological position matter-of-factly, I see many others who are not as well-versed or draw conclusions they shouldn't, and that seems to bleed over into reactions to your posts, even though you aren't that way.

 

It frustrates me no end when I read a post from an "atheist" who doesn't really get it (and probably isn't really an atheist) and spouts things that are not only intellectually insulting, they are flat-out incorrect. Thankfully, those people don't seem to hang around long. The same goes for a great many theists around here as well. Such is life.

[sb129]

It frustrates me no end when I read a post from an "atheist" who doesn't really get it (and probably isn't really an atheist) and spouts things that are not only intellectually insulting, they are flat-out incorrect. Thankfully, those people don't seem to hang around long. The same goes for a great many theists around here as well. Such is life.

 

 

I get it on the whole, but am still learning as to be honest. I have learned alot from you Moai and Disgracian. Particularly on how to articulate certain ideas and thoughts about atheism.

 

I always doubted that there was any kind of god, but didn't really give it a great deal of thought until quite recently, when I began to explore it and read about it for myself. That said, I definitely don't know everything, and can't always back myself up as well as some of the other more passionate atheists on here can.

 

However, like anything, you need diversity to keep yourself interested and stimulated, and for now, I am happy to stay away from the debates, because I started to find them quite overpowering and frustrating.

 

Thats not to say I won't explore the subject a little more and rejoin them in the future. My (non) belief is still strong.

[taiko]

Nice analogy, Moose, except busses exist and we can see them. Angry vengeful gods do not (thankfully!) and more and more people recognise that a person saying "Look out for that bus!" should probably be listened to, wheras the person saying "Look out for that angry vengeful deity who will set you on fire forever if you don't worship him!" should not.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

That you believe that a god or gods do not exist doesn't mean that the believer is stripped of his responsibilities. The "Why" question of the original post. Why do the religious try to spread their message, bring up their faith in conversation, dig wells, do public works projects and run medical missions just to get you to you to listen to them? It is so you will see that these people of faith X are full of love and to get you to ask why would somebody do that for a stranger.

[HokeyReligions]

A good Christian, including any and all church leaders, cannot convert someone. Conversion is between God and whoever. All anyone can do it introduce God, Jesus to someone. It's too bad there are so many so-called Christians who don't know that. Athiests can be just as bad in their tirades to remove any reference to faith from daily life and their unwillingness to allow people to show their faith around them. At least unwilling to allow Christians to show their faith.

 

An example: My friends daughter is not allowed to bring her Bible to school. She is not allowed to pray on school grounds - even during study hall when it is supposed to be her free period.

 

Another student brings a beautiful small rug and lays it out - facing East - at a certain time of day. It happens right before some sports practice, so its on his free time, but its on school grounds. No one has said he cannot do that. He kneels and prays.

 

It does seem to me that the majority of people in the US are Christian. The majority of the people who founded this country were also, but they recognized that there are other faiths represented. They wrote the constitution to reflect that no faith would be forced on another and that we all have the right to believe and/or worship our own way. Or to not believe. So why are Christians being targeted in this country? Much like Jews were during the 1930's - 1940's in Germany.

 

Separation of church and state (which is NOT part of the constitution btw) is fine and dandy. Not spending tax dollars on religious symbols is fine too (oxymoron anyway if you read about Jesus and the tax collectors!) but to disallow freedom of worship or freedom of speech - including freedom to talk about religion - IS against the constitution.

 

So if someone wants to get into a debate about religion and you don't want to - don't take part in the conversation. You have the freedom to Not listen, just as you have the freedom to tell them you don't believe. Chalk it up to Human and personal traits that some argue or feel that they have a right to shove it down your throat. Don't label all Christians that way or all atheists or agnostics as militant either.

[shadowofman]

I believe the trend to "convert" is a memetic instinct to all humans.

If you are not familiar with memetics, it's a metophorical description of cultures and how they evolve and propagate.

At a certain point in human history, we put genetics on the back burner and decided that our cultural ideas were a more important expression of who we are as individuals and societies. It is our cultures, religions, etc that we concern ourselves with. It's the cultures and ideals of others that are blasphemous and evil to us.

This is evident in so many aspects of our ideals and especially religions.

Christians could care less if someone is actually a good person, only that they accept Jesus as their lord. Likewise, you could be the most moral person as far as Christian dogma is concerned and still be concidered an "other" if you don't accept Christ.

In groups and out groups is how sociologist would call it. You are part of the tribe or you are not.

I will not exlude Atheists from this trend at all. I myself attempt to "convert" at every opportunity. I see nothing wrong with this, as I also believe I am enlightening people. "Convert" away people. It keeps the dialog going!

As a side note, I take exception to the idea that a lack of belief is actually a belief. This is a rediculous statement. Off is not a channel on your TV. I lack a belief in a god. I believe in evolution.

[Quinch]

If you saw a complete stranger step in front of a speeding bus, wouldn't you try and stop him/her somehow?

 

Of course I would, but a bus is a real thing. If I don't believe in heaven then I'm not going to believe in hell, so why are you trying to save me from it? I appreciate that you might care but you're wasting your time on me because I don't need 'saving'.

 

Nevertheless, a Happy Christmas to ya

[Moose]

Right on Post Hokey. God does the converting. Christians are just to be the salt and the light, lead by example.

 

So Quinch....I can't tell from your post whether or not you believe.

 

If not, do you think it's appropriate for you to wish others a Happy Christmas?

 

I have to wonder if you said that to spite Christians, or if you meant to be polite?

 

I don't mean any offense.....just curious.....

[taiko]

Of course I would, but a bus is a real thing. If I don't believe in heaven then I'm not going to believe in hell, so why are you trying to save me from it? I appreciate that you might care but you're wasting your time on me because I don't need 'saving'.

 

Nevertheless, a Happy Christmas to ya

Only those attempting suicide "believe" the bus is there when they are saved by the stranger. A religious person usually doesn't risk his life in the west in an attempt to save you spiritually as the bus hero does. In many parts of the world though he does risk his life to introduce you to a minority faith in that area of the world.

 

So why does he do that?

[Phateless]

One time when I went to yahoo chat just to talk about basic unimportant stuff, all of the sudden it turn into a terrible religious v.s logic reality debate in those were trying to convert me among the other athiests into their believes.

 

Seriously why can't they respect and leave us atheists alone with our lack of believe (which is a belief too, not believing is beliving too). We respect them and say nothing so I expect the same in return.

 

I've always found from my own personal experience and various conversations I've had over the years that extreme religious belief interferes with critical thinking skills. At a certain point, you have to choose between the two. If they don't choose critical thinking, there's no use trying to argue with them using logic.

 

I give up and walk away from these discussions because I end up either becoming furious, or having to discredit someone's beliefs. Typically, you know you've made a valid point when they revert to the comeback "because God made it that way." and eventually, they ALWAYS do.

[Quinch]

So Quinch....I can't tell from your post whether or not you believe.

 

If not, do you think it's appropriate for you to wish others a Happy Christmas?

 

Is Christmas exclusive only to those who believe? I don't think so. Happy Christmas anyway you old sod

[sderenzi]

Christianity and all religions in general are pathetic ways to make people feel better. They use resources building monuments to idols like Jesus and ignore the basic logic of reality, that no birth can happen if the girls a virgin, period. Weakminded simpletons like these are the reason this planet is falling into ash... ignore religious zealots for they are not worthy of our time.

[quankanne]

not sure how professing a belief – any belief, thank you very much – amounts to a person being a "zealot"? Especially if you are a US citizen, where the Constitution guarantees you the opportunity to workship freely ...

 

and i think you've just proven OP's opening query! :laugh:

[samsungxoxo]

that no birth can happen if the girls a virgin

 

Well there's invitro fertilization or unless the girl grabs semen on her hands and puts it inside her.

[samsungxoxo]

Is Christmas exclusive only to those who believe? I don't think so. Happy Christmas anyway you old sod

 

No not really, I like sharing this holiday with my parents and/or close member. Anyways Merry Christmas to you too.

To me it's about spending time with your loved ones.

[Moose]

Is Christmas exclusive only to those who believe? I don't think so. Happy Christmas anyway you old sod

I was just curious because it wasn't clear in your post.

 

Christmas was actually adopted by Christians as a way to celebrate Jesus' birth. Of course it's ok for anyone to say Happy Christmas or Merry Christmas, or what have you.

 

I was trying to be polite and ask you a legitimate question.

[shadowofman]

The story of Jesus does have something to do with the winter solstice though. It is the original death day of Jesus. Died on the solstice Dec. 22 and resurrected on Dec 25 after three days. Those early Catholics got it all screwed up. They needed a reason to take over Easter so they rewrote the crusifiction in the spring and the virgin birth in the winter.

Edited December 25, 2007 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed offensive remark

[sderenzi]

not sure how professing a belief – any belief, thank you very much – amounts to a person being a "zealot"? Especially if you are a US citizen, where the Constitution guarantees you the opportunity to workship freely ...

 

and i think you've just proven OP's opening query! :laugh:

 

You sound like a zealot, are you

[quankanne]

You sound like a zealot, are you

 

just for life, baby!!!!:D:D

 

otherwise, i just try to be on fire for my God in a more unassuming way