Why are religious people try converting us

[disgracian]

You misunderstand. The evidence, is evident at conversion.

You have said two different things. First you agreed with me when I said evidence was irrelevant, then you disagree when I conclude that evidence played no part. You have confused yourself somewhere along the way.

 

From what I can see, "evidence" that cannot be seen until after conversion and belief (in effect, retrospective evidence) is not what any rational person would consider evidence at all. Evidence is something you can show others, it has to be concrete. Should faith alone be enough to sway a jury in court, or does the prosecution need to produce something more concrete, something tangible and compelling instead? Why should anyone be expected to be convinced of anything for any less?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

You have said two different things. First you agreed with me when I said evidence was irrelevant, then you disagree when I conclude that evidence played no part. You have confused yourself somewhere along the way.

 

From what I can see, "evidence" that cannot be seen until after conversion and belief (in effect, retrospective evidence) is not what any rational person would consider evidence at all. Evidence is something you can show others, it has to be concrete. Should faith alone be enough to sway a jury in court, or does the prosecution need to produce something more concrete, something tangible and compelling instead? Why should anyone be expected to be convinced of anything for any less?

 

Cheers,

D.

I can see where you're coming from. I'll do more research on where you feel I've contradicted myself and see if I can explain.

 

But I do see your point.....

[Phateless]

Retrospective evidence is what's known in technical terms as RATIONALIZATION. I found a killer quote in the Ayn Rand book I've been reading, I'll post it later when I can find it.

[Love Hurts]

One time when I went to yahoo chat just to talk about basic unimportant stuff, all of the sudden it turn into a terrible religious v.s logic reality debate in those were trying to convert me among the other athiests into their believes.

 

Seriously why can't they respect and leave us atheists alone with our lack of believe (which is a belief too, not believing is beliving too). We respect them and say nothing so I expect the same in return.

 

wELL You know how Christians think!

 

If your not with Christ your going to that hot place... and they want to save you [out of love in their heart] from that place.

 

 

Its actually silly of them... to not want another soul to perish in flames ... they should let people alone to do their thing.

 

But love keeps getting in the way. Mmm...so many have been spared...

Or its great that so many have been spared.... [depends on your frame of mind].

 

I think; if you want to go to hell ... ok go.

But dont take anyone with you.

 

So many people thinking hell bound; want friends to be there with them...

 

I also think ............

many will dissapointed over 'whos not there' with them;

when they get there _______________?

[Eilonwy]

wELL You know how Christians think!

 

If your not with Christ your going to that hot place... and they want to save you [out of love in their heart] from that place.

But it is a part of their belief that unknowing/ignorant people won't go to hell, because they had no chance to convert.

 

So trying to spread knowledge about their faith is not nice or loving at all. More like the contrary.

[Lovelybird]

Since I prayed for my parents, I noticed that their relationship with each other become more healthier and they have more laughters, and they began to think there is really a good and loving God

 

As a believer, not only we are sure we are going to heaven, but also we can have an amazing close relationship with God NOW, and see many positive changes in our lives. If that isn't love, what is love?

[Reckless]

are passionate about their MACs and won't let up on PC users...

[taiko]

But it is a part of their belief that unknowing/ignorant people won't go to hell, because they had no chance to convert.

 

So trying to spread knowledge about their faith is not nice or loving at all. More like the contrary.

 

That assumes that the very first experience with the name Jesus they receive is that very first evangelistic message. Without which they would be innocent in God's eye and offered salvation because they lived a good, no perfect life, in the eyes of their society.

 

Well the only people whose minds are pure without ever hearing Jesus in their lives are not likely to run into an evangelist. They are more likely to meet a missionary whose actions can self to help their present lives as they introduce them to the God which will save their eternal life.

[miss1979]

Basically I was raised within multiple religions and everybody tried to sway me this way or that way. For awhile, I choose the athiest route. It makes sense. Through out history religion has done nothing but divide and subdue the masses. How many wars have been fought on the basis of religions and still are being fought today? How many unjust practices have been justified by religion? How many people have stopped questioning whether something is right or wrong because they have been told that some "god" says it's right? Why not be skeptical of organized religion?

 

I don't know why people feel the need to force their religious beliefs on others. It took Jesus 30 years to come to grips with his faith and be baptised.

 

I personally believe that there is a higher power and many paths to get there. The biggest thing is to just live right. So if you're a good person religious or not, isn't that the most important thing?

[Moose]

For awhile, I choose the athiest route. It makes sense.

For you maybe....

Through out history religion has done nothing but divide and subdue the masses.

That simply isn't True.

How many wars have been fought on the basis of religions and still are being fought today?

Religion isn't the issue. Ignorant men with their own agenda is.

How many people have stopped questioning whether something is right or wrong because they have been told that some "god" says it's right?

Everyone should question their faith, study it, pray about it and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal it's Truth.

Why not be skeptical of organized religion?

Nothing wrong with that.....

It took Jesus 30 years to come to grips with his faith and be baptised.

I can tell that you have no clue about the Life of Christ.

I personally believe that there is a higher power and many paths to get there.

Good luck with that. It won't work.

The biggest thing is to just live right. So if you're a good person religious or not, isn't that the most important thing?

Define, "right".

 

You can't. I can't. Noone can, and noone is able to do what you're suggesting.

 

Scripture is VERY clear about this.

[miss1979]

For you maybe....

I am sure every one has struggled with their religious identity to some degree. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, and my father is a Baptist minister. There are certain sticking points of every demonination and they don't always mix.

 

 

That simply isn't True.Religion isn't the issue. Ignorant men with their own agenda is.

Wars are brought about in Gods name, and for what. No matter who's depiction of God you look at none condones slaughtering of innocent people. And you are right, it is ignorant men with their own agendas doing these. Now let's ellaborate a little more on this. If education and uncensored media is not available to the masses; wouldn't it be easy to brain wash them to believe as you do? If you could isolate people and teach them that some omnipotent being is telling them that they should do this thing and that thing or they face grave consequences, what do you think the raminfications would be? This is exactly what is happening world wide. Some has taken a perfectly good system of beliefs and perverted it for their own self gain and started murdering people in the name of god. It is happening and is undenyable.

 

 

Everyone should question their faith, study it, pray about it and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal it's Truth.Nothing wrong with that.....

 

I can tell that you have no clue about the Life of Christ.

I do have great understanding about the life of Christ, I have questioned this and looked to other educated sources outside of the bible verses. Jesus was a great man. Almost every other religion acknowledges him to some aspect or the other. That's definitely saying something when one figure crosses the major religious boundaries. Before Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist, did he not wonder in the desert and struggle with the devil? Symbolicly don't we all wondering in the desert until we find out faith? Jesus requested help from God to find his way and accept what was to come upon him. He asked for the help; the help was not shoved down his throat.

 

 

Good luck with that. It won't work.Define, "right".

Right is a difficult word to define. There's a certain degree of moral correctness that even animals adhere to. If someone can't understand the very basics then shame on them for even considering themselves human.

 

 

You can't. I can't. Noone can, and noone is able to do what you're suggesting.

 

Scripture is VERY clear about this.

 

As for not being many paths, I disagree. See I've come to one truth in my life, "There are some things that I will know today, some things that I may not know until tomorrow, and some not until I'm dead."

 

As for the right religion, no one knows for sure. You can't give a signed statement from any one's version of god that proves this way or that way is right. You are quoting scripture so I am working with the assumption that you are Christian. So you would discredit the possibility that the Torah or the Qua'an and hadiths could be right? From the flip side of the coin everybody thinks that their religion is correct. I am sure speaking to a Muslim you'd find out how quickly your religion is wrong and that the People of the book will not share in the all the glories of heaven. And I am certain that you would say the same thing to a Muslim or a jewish person.

 

If I learned nothing from my religious studies but this, "Say to the unbeliever, 'I do not believe as you believe and you do not believe as I believe. I will never believe as you believe and you will never believe as I believe.'" (Sorry but I cannot recall the exact Surah this comes from).

[Moose]

As for not being many paths, I disagree. See I've come to one truth in my life, "There are some things that I will know today, some things that I may not know until tomorrow, and some not until I'm dead."

That's good for you. It really doesn't matter how wrong your view is to me, we can divide over this and go on with our lives.

As for the right religion, no one knows for sure.

I disagree. Again, it doesn't matter how wrong my view is to you. We'll remain divided over it.

You can't give a signed statement from any one's version of god that proves this way or that way is right.

Nope you can't. That's what the Scripture(s) is for.

You are quoting scripture so I am working with the assumption that you are Christian.

I haven't quoted one verse. But yes, I am Christian.

So you would discredit the possibility that the Torah or the Qua'an and hadiths could be right?

Absolutely.

I am sure speaking to a Muslim you'd find out how quickly your religion is wrong and that the People of the book will not share in the all the glories of heaven. And I am certain that you would say the same thing to a Muslim or a jewish person.

I'm equipped to defend my faith. No sect can sway me, in fact quite the opposite has been proven to be true.

[miss1979]

That's good for you. It really doesn't matter how wrong your view is to me, we can divide over this and go on with our lives.I disagree. Again, it doesn't matter how wrong my view is to you. We'll remain divided over it.Nope you can't. That's what the Scripture(s) is for.I haven't quoted one verse. But yes, I am Christian.Absolutely.I'm equipped to defend my faith. No sect can sway me, in fact quite the opposite has been proven to be true.

 

 

It's not so much a matter of trying to sway any one's faith. It's a great thing. However, I get very, very upset when some tries to shove their views down my throat as if some how force would make me see what "God" could not. Berating me with your religious views won't convert me; it may just have quite the opposite affect. (Not saying that you are doing this personally.)

 

I personally do have a faith but it is not defined by any of the major religions. I believe that there is a higher power no matter what name you call it by. I give something up during Lent, celebrate Christmas, fast during Rahmadan and pray several times everyday. I go to the mosque, church, and sometimes I just pray where I'm at. My life has shown me what I need to see to believe in something. All the other details that would define me as Christian, Buddist, Muslim, I don't have that worked out yet.

 

But what does make me sad, so sad my body aches with the sorrow; is how people argue, fight, discriminate, and hurt each other in the name of a religion. I for the life of me cannot understand why something that should be bringing so much joy and spreading love is constantly the fuel for anger and hatred?

[Moose]

I for the life of me cannot understand why something that should be bringing so much joy and spreading love is constantly the fuel for anger and hatred?

No one likes to be told, "This is the absolute Truth".

 

I feel your pain.....I really do. But this will never change.

[Lovelybird]

I like what you said, no one can sway me. That is exactly how I feel when people tell me that monogamy is dead and that everyone should just get over people cheating. Not going to happen, not changing my mind, not trying to persuade anyone to go along with me. I state what I believe and that is the end of it for me. Thanks, I really needed to read that today.

I agree. Follow our heart and God will take us to a better place

[disgracian]

No one likes to be told, "This is the absolute Truth".

It's not the truth that people usually object to, though it no doubt makes you feel better to believe this to be the case. What it comes down to is that nobody likes having their most heartfelt beliefs trashed. It's an emotional thing: a person invests a lot of themselves in their religion and it causes great discomfort to hear somebody else attacking it.

 

When you try to superimpose your views on somebody else, whether in this forum or elsewhere, they are probably going to get a little angry or upset. You would say that this is because they don't want to hear The Truth™. Yet when the roles are reversed and I or somebody eles tells you why your religion is wrong, you react the same way. And we of course think "the truth hurts don't it?"

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

And we of course think "the truth hurts don't it?"

Nah, your claims as to my religion being, "wrong" doesn't hurt me one bit....I look at it this way, you haven't any more proof than I that I'm right or wrong.

 

The only person you've been able to convince is yourself. I'll leave it at that.

[Lovelybird]

My gosh, my mother pissed off when I critized Mr. Mao, I only tried to tell her he was only human who also made mistakes, I felt I was total failure because she said she doesn't believe what I believe, but at the end she decided to go to church , this is really miracle, and work of Holy Spirit