LONG POST - Is it worth having kids?

[Chrome Barracuda]

Chrome Barrucuda, your post is very ignorant. First of all, I don't get paid that well for what I do.

 

Secondly, I work in a hospital. I would hardly call what I do for a living SELFISH.

 

Thirdly, choosing not to have children is no less selfish than choosing to have them. Are your reasons for having children altruistic and selfless? Of course not! You chose to have them because it's what you WANTED. It's selfish, therefor.

 

 

Why the hell is my post ignorant, you just put it out there yourself, your whole post was so self absorbed and all about you and making money! It wasnt even funny.

 

Next Altruistic or not, Having children is difficult , raising them is harder but make no mistake they are a joy to have. That is my opinion do not letr my words dictate what you want out of life. If you dont want kids , fine so be it. If I want kids fine. I'm having some. And it's not a want that makes me want to have children. I said I would like to have children but remember it takes two!!!

[Geishawhelk]

Next Altruistic or not, Having children is difficult , raising them is harder but make no mistake they are a joy to have. That is my opinion....

 

And I personally thank you for your frank and honest opinion and view, both of which you have a complete right to have. But the one thing you lack (and I'm not insulting you here, honestly) is Factual first-hand evidence, and hands-on experience.

 

I apologise if the following sounds 'sexist' but this too is fact. It's not intended to be sexist, but it is just the way things are:

For the majority of couples who have children, the chief carer ends up being the Mother. Men either still hold the advantage when it comes to earnings, so if anybody's job is going to suffer or be sacrificed, it's the woman's. Which is why, for example, the birth rate in Germany has reached crisis point. The vast majority of couples able to have children, are actively deciding to either not do so, or are delaying their parenthood, because they prefer a lifestyle funded by two fixed plentiful incomes rather than one adequate one.

Also, once the child is born, it's literally the Mother who's 'left holding the baby':

There's many a True word said in gest (I can vouch for this: )

 

A man came home from work and found his three children outside, still in their pyjamas, playing in the mud, with empty food boxes and wrappers strewn all around the front yard. The door of his wife's car was open, as was the front door to the house and there was no sign of the dog.

Going into the hallway, he found an even bigger mess.

A lamp had been knocked over, and the throw rug was shucked up against one wall. In the front room the TV was loudly blaring a cartoon channel, and the family room was strewn with toys and various items of clothing. In the kitchen, dishes filled the sink, breakfast food was spilled on the counter, the fridge door was open wide, dog food was spilled on the floor, a broken glass lay under the table, and a small pile of sand was spread by the back door.

He quickly headed up the stairs, stepping over toys and more piles of clothes, looking for his wife. He was worried she may be ill, or that something serious had happened.

He was met with a small trickle of water as it made its way out the bathroom door. As he peered inside he found wet towels, scummy soap and more toys strewn over the floor. Miles of toilet paper lay in a heap and toothpaste had been smeared over the mirror and walls.

As he rushed to the bedroom, he found his wife curled up in bed in her pyjamas, reading a novel. She looked up at him, smiled, and asked how his day went.

He looked at her bewildered and asked, "What happened here today?"

She again smiled and answered, "You know every day when you come home from work and you ask me what in the world did I do today?"

"Yes," was his incredulous reply.

She answered, "Well, today I didn't do it."

 

I have had the personal experience of an unsympathetic husband coming home and seeing the house in a state and asking me incredulously "How hard can it be, for chrissakes?"

He found out.

When my eldest was only six months old, I had to go into hospital for a few days, for a routine operation, and he came in the following morning (after my admission the previous evening) and his first words to me were:

"Well, I don't know how you do it, but she had me in tears within half an hour yesterday evening!"

 

We have too many stressed, resentful, tired, over-loaded married mothers, and a vast quantity of Single Mums who will tell you that it's hard work. Physically and mentally.

And whilst the baby is asleep, dressed beautifully and smelling sweet, yes, it is a joy. But it is always - always - counter-balanced with massive amounts of disproportionate stress.

 

When men will be just as willing to sacrifice their careers unquestionably, to stay at home and bring their children up, so that their wives can be the breadwinner (it happens, but it's not the norm) then I think the world's population would dwindle on its own....

 

I said I would like to have children but remember it takes two!!!

 

And what would you do if you find a partner (or you have a partner) who adamantly doesn't want children, but you do? And what would you do if the reverse were true? It's all very well you BOTH being of one mind, (and it's essential that you are) but it's important that you know why you're of one mind, that you have the same ideas on child care and rearing, and that you're both of one mind as to what to do if the child she's carrying isn't 'quite right'..... and how many do you want? And what if you need IVF? 60% of conception problems are down to a 'problem' on the male side, but it's only the woman who can have the treatment..... and it's stressful and distressing....

 

As Noel Coward once said:

 

"A word of advice about having Children: Don't."

[Chrome Barracuda]

And what would you do if you find a partner (or you have a partner) who adamantly doesn't want children, but you do? And what would you do if the reverse were true? It's all very well you BOTH being of one mind, (and it's essential that you are) but it's important that you know why you're of one mind, that you have the same ideas on child care and rearing, and that you're both of one mind as to what to do if the child she's carrying isn't 'quite right'..... and how many do you want? And what if you need IVF? 60% of conception problems are down to a 'problem' on the male side, but it's only the woman who can have the treatment..... and it's stressful and distressing....

 

As Noel Coward once said:

 

"A word of advice about having Children: Don't."

 

Well first thing is see if we're on the same age. If she isnt about having kids. Make no mistake. I will drop her!

 

Yes, I said it. I might really be in love with that woman, but if I tell her from jump I want kids and then she says I dont. Then I say when the time comes I will leave.

 

Simple as that. Does that sound selfish and cruel? Maybe but I think that hey she doesnt want any. why should I stay with a woman who doesnt want to raise a family with me, Who wants to build a future with me?

 

I couldnt stand there and let that happen.

[Geishawhelk]

Well, I think this would be a foolish reason to 'drop' a woman.... for something non-existent.... and trust me, if you're really, really in Love with the woman, and she says she's not into having kids - and this IS the great Love of your Life - you'd be willing to 'drop' her for maybe finding someone who IS willing to have children - but whom you don't love as much.....? Really? Oh, great. I can see massive issues rearing their ugly heads here.....

 

'When the time comes, I will leave'.... How considerate is that towards HER feelings? You putting an unknown infront of her emotions...? Is that....'Mature'....?

 

Building a future, and raising a family are two entirely separate things. One is a given, but add kids to the equasion, and statistics show you might be very well sabotaging it....

[Chrome Barracuda]

Well, I think this would be a foolish reason to 'drop' a woman.... for something non-existent.... and trust me, if you're really, really in Love with the woman, and she says she's not into having kids - and this IS the great Love of your Life - you'd be willing to 'drop' her for maybe finding someone who IS willing to have children - but whom you don't love as much.....? Really? Oh, great. I can see massive issues rearing their ugly heads here.....

 

'When the time comes, I will leave'.... How considerate is that towards HER feelings? You putting an unknown infront of her emotions...? Is that....'Mature'....?

 

Building a future, and raising a family are two entirely separate things. One is a given, but add kids to the equasion, and statistics show you might be very well sabotaging it....

 

Like I said it's a hard decision but I honestly will do what I must, even if that means leaving. If I marry a woman and she suddenly says hey I dont want to have sex anymore. I'm gonna feel duped and abused and frustrated.

 

I will annul the marriage. It works in the opposite way too. If she wants kids and I dont then why should she stay? It's understandable if she left.

 

She wants to build, and I am not into building and thus there must be a resolution,

 

Either I change my mind which I wont or she leaves and starts over with someone else which will be a better match for her.

 

So logic dictates that she doesnt have many options.

 

Just like I would not have.

 

But on the real I'm not even gonna say when I'm gonna leave but if she doesnt want to have kids, I'm just gonna enjoy my time and then when the time comes I leave. It's not rocket science!

 

I know that the odds of me finding someone in that same position to have kids with for the sake of having kids is nil but starting over is very much the same as when you first began dating reguardless. lol. It's always gonna be a coin toss.

 

But you cant be afraid to not take chances in life.

 

Her feelings about not having kids, may be about body issues, may be she feels she will be a bad parent? IDK but we will do everything to foster a nice environment to potentially have and raise children but if her issues causes massive roadblocks in our attempts?

 

Then what else am I to do?

 

When you date and have sex before you marry, you discuss everything before you marry, get on the same concrete page before jumping the broom! Get it on the table and out in the open so you wont have to deal with it later.

[Geishawhelk]

Sorry to ask, just as an aside....how old are you, By the way?

[Chrome Barracuda]

Sorry to ask, just as an aside....how old are you, By the way?

 

 

OH god, let me ask you, how old are you or are you one of those women who dont like revealing their real age for fear that theyre too old?

 

Or want to slow the aging process down?

[Geishawhelk]

No, I'm quite happy to say I'm 51. And very proud of it too.... And you are....?

[Chrome Barracuda]

No, I'm quite happy to say I'm 51. And very proud of it too.... And you are....?

 

I just turned 27.

 

any other questions?

[Geishawhelk]

Yes.

What makes you think you're mature and unselfish enough to have a meaningful relationship, let alone consider the massive responsibility of having children?

The reason I asked, is because you sound less mature about commitment, and dedication than my sixteen-year old neighbour!

 

But on the real I'm not even gonna say when I'm gonna leave but if she doesnt want to have kids, I'm just gonna enjoy my time and then when the time comes I leave. It's not rocket science!

 

- WHAT - ?!?

 

I know that the odds of me finding someone in that same position to have kids with for the sake of having kids is nil but starting over is very much the same as when you first began dating reguardless. lol. It's always gonna be a coin toss.

 

I find this gobsmackingly callous and unbelievably unrealistic. I'm speechless....

Except that any woman embarking on a serious relationship with you should seriously question your motives. Have you any idea how outdated and selfish you sound?

I'm not starting an attack on you, but you sound like someone from the 19th Century!

Does your mother know you feel like this? She would be so proud....!

 

Just think a minute about what you've just said, and tell me it's unselfish.

having childen means being Self-LESS. You give up being you - an independent, unfettered individual - for them. 'You' don't belong to you, any more.... You have to share and give, unconditionally. All the time. 24/7. 365/365 for 18 years.

And they always - but always - have to come first. Unquestionably. because as their legal guardian, their safety and well-being is entirely down to you....Tell me the above comments represent a person who's willing - 150% - to do that!

 

I can't see it there, myself!

Edited December 25, 2007 by Geishawhelk

[Chrome Barracuda]

Yes.

What makes you think you're mature and unselfish enough to have a meaningful relationship, let alone consider the massive responsibility of having children?

The reason I asked, is because you sound less mature about commitment, and dedication than my sixteen-year old neighbour!

 

 

 

- WHAT - ?!?

 

 

 

I find this gobsmackingly callous and unbelievably unrealistic. I'm speechless....

Except that any woman embarking on a serious relationship with you should seriously question your motives. Have you any idea how outdated and selfish you sound?

I'm not starting an attack on you, but you sound like someone from the 19th Century!

Does your mother know you feel like this? She would be so proud....!

 

Just think a minute about what you've just said, and tell me it's unselfish.

having childen means being Self-LESS. You give up being you - an independent, unfettered individual - for them. 'You' don't belong to you, any more.... You have to share and give, unconditionally. All the time. 24/7. 365/365 for 18 years.

And they always - but always - have to come first. Unquestionably. because as their legal guardian, their safety and well-being is entirely down to you....Tell me the above comments represent a person who's willing - 150% - to do that!

 

I can't see it there, myself!

 

First thing is first. Me being young yes, you may think I am young but I am very wise make no mistake geisha. Life experience has taught me much being here alive now.

 

I know what commitment is, I know what commitment means!!!

 

But what is a marriage without two equal partners doing something to build both their futures combined!!! That's why I said before you get married make sure you are both ready and on the same page!!!

 

Listen if you discussed and agreed to something before marriage and you found out that person lied to you afterwards that would constitute a massive amount of distrust wouldnt it???

 

Yes or no?

 

It is what it is.

 

And yes my mother know about who I am, shoot she raised me! lol.

 

But anyway's I digress.

 

And I know full and well about being one with your spouse, but that's why I said you must agree to it before you jump the broom!!!!

 

I am not advocating throwing your marriage away over some dumb stuff. no.

 

But I am saying if you exhaust all avenues of possibilites , you must do what must be done.

 

Like, I have noticed all paralells on this board with cheating spouses and the betrayed ones and the BS always want to save the marriage. But either the Wayward doesnt, is a serial cheater, pregnancy with someone outside the marriage. Problems that they the Wayward spouse keep creating.

 

If the problems are brought on by your partner to a degree where it cannot be rectified, than hey you have blibical and legal grounds to obtain the divorce! simple as that.

 

I am really pro marriage. I want couples to thrive and make great families and leave legacies.

 

My children will not inherit garbage, they will inherit the treasure I shall give them. Because that is more than what my father ever gave me.

 

I am willing do what's best for my children future tense, always! make no mistake about that. Right now I am living for me. But when the time comes I will be ready. as always to do what must be done. I will not waver and will not falter.

 

I dont see what your arguement with me here truly is.

 

Right now I am single and living my life but if I am fortunate to be blessed with a child down the line I will be ready and work hard to make it worthwhile.

[Geishawhelk]

My argument is that it's not so easy making 'cut and dried' decisions before the event has taken place.

But I'm not trying to 'argue' with you in the sense of having a spat or open-air heated disagreement, let's say....

 

When I married my husband, it was fully with the intention of it being 'forever'. Heck, we managed 23 years!

When we planned, and had children, it was with precisely the same POvs that you have. Raising them well, making them precious. But as my story highlights, nothing, but nothing in Life, is ever certain....

The whole point of this thread was to question the wisdom (or lack of) of creating and having children in the first place.

The fact that people would be 'as of one Mind' when having children, was already hoped for.

Your post (while I accept that this was not your intention) made it sound as if you have a callous disregard for what your partner might think/believe/want... even allowing for the fact that ideas, opinions, views and desires CAN and DO change.... even when one person seems so fixed in a specific thought-pattern that the likelihood of this seems impossible.

As I said, I was a studiously practising, devoted and dedicated Roman Catholic for 40 years, until I changed path and followed Buddhism....

 

If both you and your wife were to unitedly agreed that you want three children, and that is always your aim - but that after one, for no sound medical of physical reason, your wife changes her mind and decides she wishes to stick to the one - what would you do then? Still look for the woman who'll 'happily unite with you' to give you three? or would you then jus want two, because the first is already there?

This is what it sounds like in your posts..... you see...... that it's either one way, or the highway....

Marriage and Love is about complete two-way compromise. About finding the 'win-win' solution, and not having one partner making sacrifices and denying their own principles in order to please the other.....

[Chrome Barracuda]

My argument is that it's not so easy making 'cut and dried' decisions before the event has taken place.

But I'm not trying to 'argue' with you in the sense of having a spat or open-air heated disagreement, let's say....

 

When I married my husband, it was fully with the intention of it being 'forever'. Heck, we managed 23 years!

When we planned, and had children, it was with precisely the same POvs that you have. Raising them well, making them precious. But as my story highlights, nothing, but nothing in Life, is ever certain....

The whole point of this thread was to question the wisdom (or lack of) of creating and having children in the first place.

The fact that people would be 'as of one Mind' when having children, was already hoped for.

Your post (while I accept that this was not your intention) made it sound as if you have a callous disregard for what your partner might think/believe/want... even allowing for the fact that ideas, opinions, views and desires CAN and DO change.... even when one person seems so fixed in a specific thought-pattern that the likelihood of this seems impossible.

As I said, I was a studiously practising, devoted and dedicated Roman Catholic for 40 years, until I changed path and followed Buddhism....

 

If both you and your wife were to unitedly agreed that you want three children, and that is always your aim - but that after one, for no sound medical of physical reason, your wife changes her mind and decides she wishes to stick to the one - what would you do then? Still look for the woman who'll 'happily unite with you' to give you three? or would you then jus want two, because the first is already there?

This is what it sounds like in your posts..... you see...... that it's either one way, or the highway....

Marriage and Love is about complete two-way compromise. About finding the 'win-win' solution, and not having one partner making sacrifices and denying their own principles in order to please the other.....

 

I understand where you are coming from and you are right there are always unforseen situations and problems. But one child is good. I can understand the act of childbirth is very painful and very hurtful and emotionally draining. And I understand the idea of her doing it again is terrifying.

 

But as the old addage says: I'll cross that bridge when I come to it!

[Geishawhelk]

I can understand the act of childbirth is very painful and very hurtful and emotionally draining. And I understand the idea of her doing it again is terrifying.

 

Yes, but in addition to all of this, remember that a person has the right to simply change their minds. There doesn't have to be a medical, physical, psychological or emotional reason. They might simply decide that, 'no, on second thoughts, I think I'd rather not.....'

 

That, in a way, is a worse situation.... There appears to be nothing to underpin it, save a simple re-think.

[MissMaris]

 

But on the real I'm not even gonna say when I'm gonna leave but if she doesnt want to have kids, I'm just gonna enjoy my time and then when the time comes I leave. It's not rocket science!

 

 

.

 

You're 'gonna enjoy your time' and then leave? NICE!

 

So basically, a woman tells you she doesn't want kids....so you're gonna USE her until you decide to leave and find a potential mother for your children?

 

If you want kids, then great. Go have them. But don't use a person in the meantime.

 

Funny, how you tell childfree people WE'RE the selfish ones! You're some class act, dude

[MrsHellnoFire]

Is it worth not to?

Sure all that crap with diapers etc but that goes away within 3-4 years. I'm sick of hearing a reason not to have children as "poopy diapers".. come on.. how immature can you get?

 

Back to my original question.. what would it be like to grow old and alone with nobody- no family-nothing- left?

 

Why deny oneself a common need to have children? Just cause it's hard? Everything about life is hard- get used to it!

[Geishawhelk]

Is it worth not to?

Sure all that crap with diapers etc but that goes away within 3-4 years. I'm sick of hearing a reason not to have children as "poopy diapers".. come on.. how immature can you get?

If you think my only objection to having children is "poopy diapers" then it's patently obvious you haven't taken the time to read the thread fom the beginning, or even the original post.

Poopy diapers are the least of my worries! Grab yourself a cuppa, sit infront of your pc/laptop, and read the first post. Yep, it's long, but I think it gives a more coherent, logical and valid argument than just 'poopy nappies'!

 

Back to my original question.. what would it be like to grow old and alone with nobody- no family-nothing- left?

Simple - people like your kids, in a paid job, will look after me! And listen - just because people have no kids, it doesn't mean they'll grow old alone and with nobody.... Countless thousands of elderly people WITH families are doing that, so what's your point? What a silly thing to say.... rally, if you're going to join a lucid discussion on why one should have children, try to come up with a better argument than the old age one... I for one have good plans for this part, anyway.... and I have children.....

 

Why deny oneself a common need to have children? Just cause it's hard? Everything about life is hard- get used to it!

 

*sigh* go back and start the thread again....You just don't get it.

I'm sorry, but you sound like the typical mom, shooting from the defensive hip, without all the facts....

What 'Common need' precisely, are you referring to...?

Please explain this statement thoroughly.

 

Then maybe we can get some sense into your contribution....

Edited December 27, 2007 by Geishawhelk

[blind_otter]

I'm pregnant with my first child.

 

First off, I was raised in an unconventional home. My father was retired by the time I was born, so he stayed at home and raised me while my mother worked (a lot...she's a workaholic). So I don't really get the whole thing about women being the primary caretaker, it wasn't my experience. I can understand it intellectually but beyond that, it's not a real issue for me. My mother was the disciplinarian. We were all afraid of her. Admittedly, to this day I'm still afraid of her and we're not that close.

 

Why did I want a child? Since I was young I wanted a child. I think being a parent is the single most important job in the world. You have an opportunity as well as a responsibility, to help create the best person you can help create, with all your efforts going towards making the world a better place through your child. There was a time when I didn't want kids. I guess after I miscarried twice I rejected the idea of having a child because I was afraid I couldn't. But now, I look forward to the opportunity that having a child presents to me. I know it's a craps shoot, in many respects. God knows that I may love my mother but I don't like her very much and we are cordial and distant.

 

I don't think there can ever be a "logical" reason to have kids. My older sister told me that if you wait for the "right time" to have a kid, you'll be childless forever. No one in their right mind has a kid. It's the most difficult thing to do, and the least rewarding in many respects. But think of the beautiful possibilities. Your child could make the world a better place...bring light into dark lives...bring knowledge to the ignorant....

 

I don't know. I hear from a lot of people (especially on LS lately) that they don't want to have kids. I think that's fine and dandy. But I also think it's laudable to want to have a child, and have the best intentions and make the most dedicated efforts toward it.

 

The world could use more sensitive thinkers, I believe. I don't want to throw my hands up and give up on the human race because it seems hopeless now. I don't want to live without hope, and children (to me) are the embodiment of hope.

[a4a]

And what would you do if you find a partner (or you have a partner) who adamantly doesn't want children, but you do? And what would you do if the reverse were true? It's all very well you BOTH being of one mind, (and it's essential that you are) but it's important that you know why you're of one mind, that you have the same ideas on child care and rearing, and that you're both of one mind as to what to do if the child she's carrying isn't 'quite right'..... and how many do you want? And what if you need IVF? 60% of conception problems are down to a 'problem' on the male side, but it's only the woman who can have the treatment..... and it's stressful and distressing....

 

As Noel Coward once said:

 

"A word of advice about having Children: Don't."

 

Well first thing is see if we're on the same age. If she isnt about having kids. Make no mistake. I will drop her!

Yes, I said it. I might really be in love with that woman, but if I tell her from jump I want kids and then she says I dont. Then I say when the time comes I will leave.

 

Simple as that. Does that sound selfish and cruel? Maybe but I think that hey she doesnt want any. why should I stay with a woman who doesnt want to raise a family with me, Who wants to build a future with me?

 

I couldnt stand there and let that happen.

 

Nice.... hope you send all your new loves to the GYN. for a fertility work up.

Would be interesting to find out that your sperm doesn't swim too.... I guess you would understand if a woman dropped you because you shoot blanks.

 

Why does the name Henry come to mind....????

[nittygritty]

OK, I'm opening up a whole can of worms here, and perhaps I shall be pushing a few buttons, rattling a few cages and getting a few folk to jump out of their prams.... but I think it's worth thinking about...

 

First of all, let me immediately state that I have two children, both girls; one is 25 the youngest, 16.

I became pregnant about 3 months after I got married, and doted on my first child. She was gentle, quiet, sweet, well-behaved and a real gem, a credit to both her father and me. She was bright, intelligent, caring, conscientious and very popular with lots of friends at both her primary and secondary school.

Through hormonal difficulties, i didn't have my second until the first child was 7 years of age. This didn't worry me, as there are 7 years between me and my younger brother, and my ex- is 7 years younger than his sister, so the gap was never an issue.

But it did mean that we had to put Life - plans, desires, luxuries - on hold.

And the second child was as different to the first as you could imagine - a real problem at night (no unbroken sleep for 3 years!) wilful, obstinate, bad-tempered, occasionally spiteful, selfish and a right little madam - but bright as a button,m and very, very funny!

The girls grew up, and the eldest mentored the youngest as best she could, given the different temperaments... she taught her many things, creating an independent strong personality... we three females forged an extraordinarily strong bond of friendship and unity. Both girls told me on more than one occasion, that I was their best friend, and that their friends in turn, all told them that hey wished they had ' a mum like yours'...! we did everything together, and at times, my ex, the poor chap, must have felt decidedly out of the picture, so chummy were we!

In actual fact, earlier in my second child's life, he found it very difficult to bond with her, resented her, and in fact 'rejected' her emotionally for a considerable period of time. His bond with the eldest, conversely, was unshakable, and unbreakable....

In 1999, when they were aged 16 and 8, we moved, as a family unit, to France, with the intention of becoming permanent residents.

But nothing ever goes quite to plan....

in 2002, my ex-and I separated, and because w had experienced such an even-tempered and united relationship, nobody had a clue this would happen, and it came as a great shock to many.

My daughters however, took the (personally disappointing) decision to 'side' with their father.

I have neither seen nor spoken to them, with any relevance or for any reasonable period of time, since he and I split up. Their attitude towards me is cursory, and they have chosen to currently turn their backs on me, and treat me as an acquaintance, rather than a mother.

I am not bitter, I am not angry, and I hold a fervent wish in my heart that in time, this attitude will soften, and that they will once again, decide to actively include me in their lives.

But, sad as it is, unimaginable and unthinkable in comparison to how we first were, I can’t keep beating myself up about it, or losing sleep. I bear responsibility for events as they unfolded, but I am not to blame.

There’s a difference….

And so, in a very long, and roundabout way, this brings me to the purpose of this thread:

 

In this day and age, with the Economy being as fragile as it is, and with the crisis of Global Warming being one everyone’s lips and a major issue for discussion amongst the World’s Political powers, with the current global population being as out of control as it seems to be, and with orphanages bursting at the seams…

With the current issue of ‘the attitude’ of the younger generation, the difficulties faced in bringing children up and educating them, and the costs associated with having a family, given that (as my own story so graphically illustrates) there are NO guarantees – NONE - of having a happy, well-adjusted and ideal family –

I personally am now of the opinion that having a baby nowadays, is reprehensibly irresponsible.

Financially, ecologically, socially, environmentally and ethically irresponsible.

But given that you might be a parent, or that you might be planning to have a child – Tell me this:

 

WHY, exactly would you WANT to have a baby….?

 

What logical, sound, acceptable reason could you possibly have for wanting one?

 

The thing is, I have actually asked people this question, and not one person, not a one – has been able to give me an acceptable answer. (‘Acceptable’, according to the criteria I outlined above….)

 

I have received answers such as:

 

“I dunno really, it just seemed the right thing to do….”

“Because I guess my family is expecting it….”

“My/our/his/her parents can’t wait to be grandparents….”

“Because it’s selfish NOT to….” (WTF….?!)

“Because it’s our God-Given Right to have Children….”

 

This last one is cruddo, folks…. It’s your God-given right (if you ascribe to Christianity, or a Holy Calling of any kind) to try to conceive a child, but remember that, like kittens, they don’t stay small for long…. And it’s not your right to have one…

They need constant 24-hour care, feeding, clothing, buying presents for, schooling, Uniforms, holidays, medical bills (dental braces? Glasses?) and by the time they hit 18, they will have probably cost you slightly over a quarter of a million pounds….. and that’s just one…..

And don’t forget, that there is NO guarantee that the child you fervently ‘wish’ for will be normal and not handicapped. Hey, it happens…I know three families with handicapped children, and whilst they are a joy to their parents, they’re also hard work. And one mum I know was deserted by her husband a year after the child was born, because he couldn’t bear the pressure, responsibility or burden of it. He wrote her a letter saying that the boy ‘cramped his style’….

I’m sure this is rare, and I’m not for one moment suggesting every man would do this, of course not…. But it’s hard work…

Even having a normal, well-adjusted child is massive, and I really don’t think an awful lot of couples embarking on parenthood, are truly aware of what’s involved. Let’s face it, if the job of parenting were advertised in the paper, nobody would volunteer for such a task – especially unpaid!

 

“wanted: parent to care for growing child, to feed it, buy formula milk, nappies and food, and basically devote the next 18 years, totally devoted to feeding, clothing, housing, protecting, and educating same. No holidays. No perks, no pay, no time off. Must be able to drive, think of three things at once, demonstrate infinite patience, answer awkward questions, guide, counsel and advise. Must have solid well-grounded principles. GSOH absolutely vital to prevent loss of sanity. Apply in writing to ‘Thanklesstask.com’….”

 

And young teen unmarried mothers….Let’s not even GO there!!

The thing is, if you wish to adopt, the hoops you have to jump through are extraordinary. The vetting procedure is lengthy, intrusive and mind-bogglingly officious…. And that goes for pets, as well, if you go to a rescue centre…

So why don’t Governments put in the same stringent precautions for people wishing to create a new and unique life on their own…?

It’s crazy….

 

So….

Why do you want to have children?

 

 

There is also a difference between choosing not to ever have kids and choosing to have kids and then abandoning them after divorce.

 

Honestly, your post does push a button or hit a nerve with me. I have a 16 year old daughter and an 11 year old son and I can't imagine choosing to not see or speak to them for any reason, ever.

 

My love for them is unconditional and having the privilege of bringing them into this world, raising them and being their Mom is by far the greatest love and joy that I'll ever experience in my lifetime. Sure, there are times it is difficult and stressful but it certainly has never been the unbearable burden that you are portraiting having kids to be, for me anyway.

 

I do agree with you that people do need to put more thought into whether or not they should have kids but it needs to be decided before they have them. The situation with your relationship with your daughters is a loss for all of you. I hope that you will keep trying to repair your relationship with them. No matter how old they are.

[Geishawhelk]

There is also a difference between choosing not to ever have kids and choosing to have kids and then abandoning them after divorce. Honestly, your post does push a button or hit a nerve with me. I have a 16 year old daughter and an 11 year old son and I can't imagine choosing to not see or speak to them for any reason, ever.

 

Nittygritty, thank you for your comments and I'm sure, as you have two children, with an age gap between them, you can equate.... But I hope you're not suggesting I have 'abandoned' my children.

Quite the opposite.

I write to them at least once a month, and tell them all my news....I send Christmas, Easter and of course, Birthday gifts and cards, without fail, and try to keep abreast of my younger daughter's progress in her schooling.

What has amazed me, given our previously concrete-solid relationship, is that all and every communication so far has been entirely one way.... from me.

I have never, in the 3-and-a-half years since my separation, had anything back from them. Ever. At all. Which strikes me as both sad and perplexing...It's an awfully long time to hold a grudge against your mother....

My own mother and I have known some pretty tempestuous and explosive times....but she and I have never let such issues keep us apart for long.

 

 

My love for them is unconditional and having the privilege of bringing them into this world, raising them and being their Mom is by far the greatest love and joy that I'll ever experience in my lifetime. Sure, there are times it is difficult and stressful but it certainly has never been the unbearable burden that you are portraiting having kids to be, for me anyway.

 

Ditto, and double ditto......

 

I do agree with you that people do need to put more thought into whether or not they should have kids but it needs to be decided before they have them. The situation with your relationship with your daughters is a loss for all of you. I hope that you will keep trying to repair your relationship with them. No matter how old they are.

 

Someone told me that apparently with rifts of this kind, it can take 10 years or more for something to shift.

I'll wait however long it takes. I am always here for them, and will never turn my back on them ever, for as long as they need me. Daughters might....Mothers never do.....

[Geishawhelk]

I don't think there can ever be a "logical" reason to have kids. My older sister told me that if you wait for the "right time" to have a kid, you'll be childless forever. No one in their right mind has a kid. It's the most difficult thing to do, and the least rewarding in many respects.

 

And this is the problem. Loads of logical, sound reasons NOT to, but very few logical sound reasons FOR having them. Yet people still gravitate towards the 'no logical sound reason'.....

 

But think of the beautiful possibilities. Your child could make the world a better place...bring light into dark lives...bring knowledge to the ignorant....

 

This, as a Buddhist, I grant you is something I can agree with.....Where would we be if Mother Teresa's and Gandhi's mothers had not had their children....? The thing is, it's not a guarantee, or a given, is it....? Maybe this is where genetic interference might have a role.... but is this the way we want to go? It might be the way we'll need to go, in the Future......

 

Wow, that's a whole new issue....!!

[blind_otter]

And this is the problem. Loads of logical, sound reasons NOT to, but very few logical sound reasons FOR having them. Yet people still gravitate towards the 'no logical sound reason'.....

 

Well when you get right down to it there's really no sound, logical reason to have a relationship yet we all feel compelled to find a partner. Humans aren't all logic.

 

The thing is, it's not a guarantee, or a given, is it....? Maybe this is where genetic interference might have a role.... but is this the way we want to go? It might be the way we'll need to go, in the Future......

 

To be honest I've met quite a few beautiful people who enriched my life in one way or another, and I thank their parents for having them. Some had less than ideal origins and one or two parents who were just plain dirtbags, but some how these people turned out to be miracles that touched me personally in one way or another and in some cases, changed my life for the better.

 

This is what I think about children. You plant the seed, care for it, water it, make it grow...but you never know how the plant will turn out. It's the doing of the thing that's important, not the ends.

[stillafool]

Back to my original question.. what would it be like to grow old and alone with nobody- no family-nothing- left?

 

My aunt who has alzheimer's lives in a home. She never married or had children. When I see her on Sunday's it's amazing how many of those people have children who never show up to visit them. It's really sad. You can't depend on your children in your old age. They are going to be too busy trying to make a living and save for their retirement as they will not have social security and pensions to depend on.

[Geishawhelk]

Well when you get right down to it there's really no sound, logical reason to have a relationship yet we all feel compelled to find a partner. Humans aren't all logic.

 

Yes there is. There is unity and safety, protection and nourishment in finding a partner. Humans are all logic actually. because inherently, we're mammals with the same herding and survival instincts, as other mammals on this planet. Logic is what sets us apart from the wildebeest....My argument is that there are too many of us, and we're gaily upsetting the ecological balance, and destroying this world in the process.... How many instances are there of mankind encroaching onto wildlife territory due to the growth of he population, and then complainiung that the wildlife is getting in the way - ?!

 

 

 

To be honest I've met quite a few beautiful people who enriched my life in one way or another, and I thank their parents for having them. Some had less than ideal origins and one or two parents who were just plain dirtbags, but some how these people turned out to be miracles that touched me personally in one way or another and in some cases, changed my life for the better.

 

True. Very true. But unfortunately, (open any paper, watch any news programme) you will see it's the dirtbags and the scum-balls who are getting the hedlines at the moment. In ever-increasing ways.....

 

This is what I think about children. You plant the seed, care for it, water it, make it grow...but you never know how the plant will turn out. It's the doing of the thing that's important, not the ends.

 

"The doing of the thing, not the ends"....

I can't tell you how wonderful to see all your effort and hard work get flushed down the pan because the seed you've planted, cared for watered and made grow turns around on you and devours you "little house of horrors" style.

I tell you, the sense of Pride is enormous.

Trust me - you lie awake nights on end, asking yourself where the hell you went wrong.....

And the answer is - Nowhere.

But the ends are more important than you think.

It's the end that makes the world, isn't it?