So Jesus was a Capricorn???

[disgracian]

If shadowofman, (and many others), don't respect what we believers hold as obvious, there's nothing any of us can do, period.

If I were in the same situation, I would try to show the other person why I find it obvious. If something is obvious then there ought to be some easily available evidence to make it obvious in the first place.

 

If I explain myself clearly and thoroughly enough, they may begin to have some respect for it. It's certainly a better policy than saying "they won't understand anyway" before even trying.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

If I explain myself clearly and thoroughly enough, they may begin to have some respect for it. It's certainly a better policy than saying "they won't understand anyway" before even trying.

K then.....the very air that you breathe cannot be seen, but it's there. Can you hold it? Can you see it? The only thing you can do with it is measure and mix it. Correct?

 

What seems to be the problem then?

[shadowofman]

I'll respect anyone's right to believe anything that they want, but do not expect your beliefs to be respected. No idea is beyond ridicule, whether it be seemingly good or evil. I don't respect theism or racism, but I would fight for your right to be racist or theist. Please do not confuse this distinction.

 

Producing evidence won't do a BIT of good with you.

 

Evidence works wonders on me. Similar to the way that faith works on you.

 

But yes, there are many Christians, I'm sure, that hold to this 12/25 date. If so, they haven't matured enough in the Faith in my opinion.

 

I agree. These people haven't allowed the evidence to disrupt their beliefs. Many may think that the date is unimportant to their ultimate faith in Jesus, but it is an example of evidence causing your religion to evolve and adapt to a more informed world. Same as the belief that heaven was in the sky and hell was underground. Same as the fact that most religious people now believe in evolution (as god's way), rather than the old magic-clay story. Same as why most people don't take the stories of the bible literally as they once did. As evidence comes to light, religions are force to shrink their beliefs in order to fit them into smaller and smaller gaps in knowledge. In order to do this, one's faith needs to be stronger (mature as you put it).

 

K then.....the very air that you breathe cannot be seen, but it's there. Can you hold it? Can you see it? The only thing you can do with it is measure and mix it. Correct?

What seems to be the problem then?

 

I can hold air and with the right tools, I could see it too. I can even use it to knock things down and extinguish candles.

If you could give me god's measurements, that would be great. As I have said before, there are invisible things in this universe. Even better than air, there are microwaves and germs. There are even things that we have not discovered yet. But how can you possibly claim to know what those things are, or even elude to the thought that I am ignoring the evidence for their existance?

[Moose]

I'll respect anyone's right to believe anything that they want, but do not expect your beliefs to be respected.

If you don't respect my beliefs, then keep it to yourself. Otherwise, you negate you're so called, "respect" of my rights.

 

BTW, anytime you insert the word, "but" in the middle of a sentence, that cancels everything out you've said prior to the, "but".......in other words, you do not respect my rights to believe anything I want.

Please do not confuse this distinction.

Oh, I'm not confused at all.....I know your type.

Evidence works wonders on me. Similar to the way that faith works on you.

If that were true, you'd believe the same way I do.

Many may think that the date is unimportant to their ultimate faith in Jesus, but it is an example of evidence causing your religion to evolve and adapt to a more informed world.

<<<<<<WRONG>>>>>>>

 

My religion doesn't, "evolve". It's been the same since day 1 and it'll never change. People who subscribe to my religion may not be as mature as some and it is they who, "evolve".

Same as why most people don't take the stories of the bible literally as they once did.

That's only due to context. Most Christians, (especially brand new Christians), don't know how to take the Bible as a whole. It's always cut/paste with them until they mature and learn how to read the scriptures for all they're with.

As evidence comes to light, religions are force to shrink their beliefs in order to fit them into smaller and smaller gaps in knowledge.

You're most definitely generalizing here. As evidence comes to light, Christianity is being reinforced, and reinforced. Soon, it'll be an, "I told you so" senario.

But how can you possibly claim to know what those things are, or even elude to the thought that I am ignoring the evidence for their existance?

The very fact that you're able to communicate via of merely typing words should be evidence enough.

 

Do you know of any other creature capable of doing this?

[Moose]

It's always cut/paste with them until they mature and learn how to read the scriptures for all they're with.

I meant, "worth"......

[disgracian]

If you don't respect my beliefs, then keep it to yourself. Otherwise, you negate you're so called, "respect" of my rights.

Freedom of expression is a concept that must cause you great confusion. As would the famous quote, "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

Let me see if I can explain to you how this works. I have no respect for your beliefs or the way you act here. None whatsoever. This would come as no surprise to you. However, I wholly believe in, and have the highest respect for, personal freedom and autonomy. This means people thinking and believing what they want. People have the right to embrace or escape from reality as much as they want within the privacy of their own minds. This means I respect (and would defend) your right to believe whatever the heck you want. I abhor any sort of tyrrany over the mind, be it Saudi Arabian theocracy or Communist China.

 

I can't speak for shadowofman, but I suspect he would think along very similar lines. Clear now?

My religion doesn't, "evolve". It's been the same since day 1 and it'll never change

What is this 'day 1' to which you refer? In the "beginning" in Genesis 1:1, when Jesus was born or died, first counci' of Nicaea, Constantinople, Ephesus, etc... Where did Christianity begin?

 

Cheers,

D.

[shadowofman]

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

Disgracian, That "but" means you actually do agree with Moose.

 

The very fact that you're able to communicate via of merely typing words should be evidence enough.

 

Just as lame to me as the scientific method is to you. In fact, written word is a product of evolutionary advancement. It isn't evidence of anything other than my poor spelling.

[Moose]

Just as lame to me as the scientific method is to you.

Neither of you, (shadowman, disgracian), have been paying any attention.

 

I've never said the scientific method is lame. In fact, I whole heartedly believe in Science! I'm done with both of you and this circle you two keep going in.

[disgracian]

GG Moose, you managed to depart without ever having to show any of that "evidence" to which you alluded.

 

Cheers,

D.

[shadowofman]

Or conceeding the fact that I do respect your right to believe in silly things.

[Lovelybird]

Brilliant!!

 

talk about science and education, I read some passage from book of Fulton J. Sheen, he says

 

(1) Youth has an intellect and a will. The intellect is the source of his knowledge; the will, the source of his decisions. If his choices are wrong, the youth will wrong regardless of how much he knows. (2) Education through the communication of knowledge does not necessarily make a good man; it can conceivably make learned devils instead of stupid devils. (3) Eduction is successful when it trains the mind to see the right target, and disciplines the will to choose them rather than the wrong targets.

 

 

Knowledge is in the mind; character is in the will. To pour knowledge into the mind of a child, without disciplining his will to goodness, is like putting a rifle into the hands of a child. With education of the mind, but without love of goodness, a child could grow up to be a clever devil.

[Moose]

GG Moose, you managed to depart without ever having to show any of that "evidence" to which you alluded.

Nonsense. Everything I've told you is immediately dismissed. I'm not wasting my time with you anymore.

Or conceeding the fact that I do respect your right to believe in silly things.

Nonsense. If this were true you'd allow me to share it without attacking every single post I write. And yes, it is a personal thing with you both. You're so threatened by me you attack every chance you get. Therefore, I'll spare you the embarrassment and bow out gracefully.

[Moose]

Therefore, I'll spare you the embarrassment and bow out gracefully.

I meant, "us".....lol

[disgracian]

Nonsense. Everything I've told you is immediately dismissed.

Because it's not evidence. And it's refuted, not dismissed summarily as you are doing with us. Pots and kettles, Moose. Pots and kettles.

 

Cheers,

D.

[NotMyselfNEmore]

WHAT???!!! I don't know of any Christians who believe that either.....young or old....

 

 

Unfortunately ..... I do know many Christians who believe that December 25th is the actual date of Jesus' birth. These are Christians who have been in the church for MANY years but have not attended any of the bible studies, prayer groups or any teachings whatsoever. Sad truth that these Christians are so naive to the real facts. And the ignorance does not stop on the topic of Jesus' birth...... it's about many other things that are believed without hesitation and without deep study and research.

 

As far as the exact date of Jesus' birth, it is my opinion that it doesn't matter when Jesus was born. I'm sure Jesus didn't want us to remember his birth. He wants us to remember his death, which is the real true meaning of Christianity. That was the miracle of all miracles. But we seem so concerned about trivial details instead of examining our hearts (for those who are Christians) and making sure we follow and demonstrate the faith we have chosen.