so confused and dont know what to do

[Paradiselost]

Hey everyone, this is my first time posting on LS and I desperately need some perspective, advice, reassurance or whatever for a very complex problem, as I feel so confused and distraught. Sorry for the long post by the way..

 

Firstly, some background to my problem, Im 27 years of age and Im going out with a now 38 year old guy for almost 3 years. I am deeply in love with him and he says the same. He is kind, generous, successful, gorgeous, funny, cute and i could see myself marrying him in the long term, if it werent for for i am about to tell you. I dont know if it is the age difference or what, but he is very set in his ways. My boyfriend has alot of female friends, alot of which are ex girlfriends that he is still in contact as friends, so he tells me. He is not from this country, and alot of these girls live in his home city, which he visits about twice/ year.

 

At the beginning of our relationship I wasnt aware of the number of these friends, but over time I have learned more, realised that he texts and emails alot of them pretty frequently (often inappropriate stuff) and i have become very uneasy, anxious and jealous about these weird friendships. Compared to other guys I know, my boyfriend seems to endevour to keep in contact with ALL ex's, and hold all his friendships with these girls in very high esteem. So much so, that I have said to him on a number of occasions that I dont feel that our relationship is as important to him as these girls seem to be. I know for a fact that if it ever came down to it, he would choose them above me. I have had to speak to my boyfriend about my concerns on a number of occasions, usually when I have become so worked up and upset, I have barely eaten or slept for days, confused and scared about what may happen when I AGAIN come to him with more problems.

 

It always seems like its me wanting to "talk" to discuss things Im not happy with (see examples below), and i think over time my boyfriend is getting tired of it. An insight into his "friendships":

 

1. Up until 2 years into our relationship, my boyf still had a picture of his last ex in his bedroom. She has a boyf, but they keep in pretty freq contact (maybe every 2 months, by email). She lives back in his home country and lives near where he would go home to visit. Deep down I know that even though they have been broken up for years, even when me and him met, he was still in love with her, and maybe is not fully over her still. Over time i got v uneasy about their contact, and it led to me tearfully talking to him, last jan, explaining that I didnt like him still having a pic up of her and that i was concerned about the contact. He listened to me and said that they were good friends and that she is still a very special person in his life, but that he doesnt have feelings for her. I find it so difficult to believe him. I know he will never cut contact with her for me, I would never dare ask. A few days later, he had put the picture behind another one, but didnt take it down..

 

Does he still love her? Is this normal behaviour? She knows about me. i am so scared that whenever he goes home to visit family and friends, that he will meet up with her, bacause I know that he would see nothing wrong with doing this..I just dont trust it..

 

2. One of his ex's (who has aboyfriend) sent him pictures of her in a bikini and some other modelling pics, about a year ago (it was a group email, but my boyf saved the pictures to his phone as he receives emails to his phone). He lent me his phone and I happened to find them. I was horrified. After days of fretting, I talked to him. He said that she had sent them as a group email, because she was proud of them. I asked him why he had to save them to his phone, as this was completely inappropriate for a guy with a girlfrind to do, and he said he just didnt think, didnt realise it would upset me. That was his excuse. I was so angry I kept saying it wasnt right. I dont know if he has since deleted them, as I dont check his phone. im almost afraid to..

 

 

2.When he lent me his phone I also found txts (from a year prev, that he had saved) that almost made me sick. One was from him to a girl who he says is an old friend (i dont think anything has ever happened between them). We had gone to her gig and I had met her briefly for the first time. My boyf had texted her to say thanks for a great gig, but then said that she "looked damn gorgeous in that dress" and there were kisses . Then I found another text from her to him from about 1 1/2 months later for new years eve, and it was basically loads of kisses, then "hee hee" at the end of it. I confronted him about the first text, freaked out I was so angry. He seemed bewildered as to why I was upset! I said it was completely inappropriate as it gave her the wrong impression that he fancies her. He said "its the way i speak to all my female friends, its just the way I am" I said that the word "damn gorgeous" were wrong, that he could have said that she looked nice or something. He said he saw nothing wrong with it, that she was an old friend and that she would know what he means. He said "why should I change the way I speak to my friends just because i am now in a relationship?"

 

I felt that speaking to female friends like this is flirting, and completely disrespectful to our relationship. He should only say those kind of words to me. It might make these girls think he is not serious about me, if he is flirting with them. is he trying to kep other doors open? We fought and almost broke up, as I realised that, fundamentally, we have very different opinions about what is acceptable in a relationship. He said I have to accept that its the way he is, the way he grew up, the way he talks to his good friends,just as he accepts me for who I am. I just cannot accept it as It goes against my values and principles.

 

3. Up until recently my boyfriend was living with his best friend, a girl.When she was living with him it was so difficult as she was ALWAYS around. She would watch tv with us, come home when we had made dinner and my boyf would ask her to have dinner with us, even though it was meant to be just the two of us. She would also text him when we were out, saying "where are you? Im at home? Can you get me so and so from the shop". It always felt like they were some married couple the way they went on, discussing domestic stuff. it drove me mad, because he saw nothing wrong with her interference. They have been friends for around 10 years and when they first met they did kiss a few times (I found this out from HER when we got drunk one night. i dont know if she held back more information as I got really upset finding this out, as he had never told me). He later said that he thought he had told me when we first met.. When they text now, he will add xx to the end of texts.. Over time, more so since I found out about their previous romantic connection, i have become v anxious about how close their friendship is. Why does he have to put kisses at the end of the texts? Also, they have two framed photographs in his living room of the two of them, one I know is from when they first met..

 

Anyway..She bought a house with her fiance, who is also good friends with my boyf. It took 5 months for her to move out and still she hasnt moved all her things out and still has a key. Im so glad she is "gone", but the thing is, the two photos are still up in the living room! I wouldnt mind, but he has no photos of any other friends or even US up in the living room..its just the two of them..I hate going over to his place cos it feels like "their" place, it just makes me feel resentful and sick to my stomach..I know he is really sad she moved out as he doesnt se her much..I just feel so uneasy about what their texts are like now..Do I ask him to take the photos down?? Is this a reasonable request? I have told him I am uneasy about their friendship before, and again he waved it off, saying they were very good friends, and that she would be moving out soon (she didnt move out for 4 more months..)

 

Im soo confused, is this normal behaviour with friends? As a result of all this, I dont trust him, because he seems to think that this is all acceptable. I dont know if he has changed the way he texts the other girl ("damn gorgeous"),knowing that what he was doing upsets me. Im almost afraid to ask incase I find out he is doing the same thing and will never change.

 

 

I know I cant change him, but I feel that if he really loved me, if he knew that all this upsets me so much he would change it. If I knew that I was doing something to upset him, i would want to do everything I could to fix it. There are so many of these girls in his life I feel like I will never be ok with this, that I am fighting a losing battle. Im so confused as to weather i am being jealous or have unrealistic expectations of him. He seems to want to act the very same to these girls as he did when he was single, like his relationship changes nothing..

 

I am considering breaking up, as i feel like this will never resolve. It rears its ugly head in a constant cycle, as I never seem to get any closure. i feel that eventually he may get sick of my insecurity and jealousy (as he puts it) and break up with me. I dont feel that Im being over jealous though. I dont trust his relationships with these girls, I have no idea what he is saying to them..I know It robably sounds like I am v insecure, but i would be secure if I knew he would acknowledge that what he is doing is not right...I feel so sad, i am so sick of fretting, crying to myself, feeling sick as to what is going on. i really love him, but Im worn out..

 

I would really appreciate any insight or advice. Thanks for listening..

Edited December 30, 2007 by Paradiselost

[curiousnycgirl]

Personally I think you are overreacting, but I appear to be a minority on LS, as I take these things very non chalantly.

 

I have a lot of male friends, some I have dated in the past, others I've just always been friends with. I have been known to ask these guys how I look in a certain outfit, so that I could get a male perspective. So now when my guy friends think I look hot in an outfit, they just tell me without my asking.

 

My b/f has pictures of his ex g/f's - while I admit they are not displayed all over the house, they are there. In fact there is a pile of framed pics in the top drawer of his dresser, all his ex's. When I found it I was a little surprised, but I think my bigger issue was that he didn't have a framed pic of me anywhere -so if/when we broke up, I would not be added to that pile! (I know my mind works in weird ways). According to my b/f all these girls gave him the framed pics - so he just keeps them in the drawer.

 

I have YET to give him a framed pic of me. I figure if he really wants one, he can frame it himself!!!

 

My overwhelming feeling about the men I date is that I have to trust them, regardless of who their friends are (male or female) - if I don't feel I can trust him, then I shouldn't be dating them and I end it. Truth is my b/f has to deal with the same issue with me. I have a LOT of male friends - in fact I have a lot of their pics (generally with me in the pic too) framed throughout my house. Either my b/f trusts me or he doesn't, that's my bottom line.

 

So you need to ask yourself, do you trust your b/f? If not what exactly are you not trusting? Do you think he will cheat on your with one of these women? If so then that is not good and you need to rethink your relationship.

 

However if you are disturbed by the words he is using, then you need to realize that is who he is and move on. That is assuming you trust him.

 

See to me trust is the key to it all. If you trust your man, there is no reason to be jealous, regardless of what other women do, or what pics they send him, or what they say to eachother.

 

Does that make any sense?

[norajane]

Seems like 'friend' is code for 'women I'd like to f*ck'. I could be wrong, but I knew a guy like that and, sooner or later, each and every one of his female 'friends' became either a temporary gf or f*ck buddy. He kept the exes around as well as 'friends' and sometimes had sex with them again, too.

 

Like I said, I could be wrong about your guy.

 

However, you are unhappy and he knows that his relationships with these women trouble you and he's not really doing a whole lot - and will not - to change his behavior.

 

I know I cant change him

This is very, very true. He's got his life set up the way he wants it, with all these women in the background. You aren't going to be able to change that - he is the only one who can do that and I don't see him wanting to.

 

All you have control over is yourself. Decide if you can live with it, or move on.

 

i could see myself marrying him in the long term,

 

Don't bet on that happening. Has he EVER mentioned wanting to get married? Has he ever mentioned wanting to get married to you? He sounds like he enjoys his life and how it is without making that kind of commitment.

Edited December 30, 2007 by norajane

[Florida]

What is okay for one person is not okay with you, Paradise Lost, and that is the key here.

 

You can't fake what curiousnycgirl is saying, I would say you and your guy are not compatible, especially as you told him what bothers you, and nothing has changed.

 

So...take it or leave it. 2 years is long enough to see what je is about. Now you have to stop trying to *explain* proper behavior because obviously-he ain't biting.

 

When you mention that you could see marrying him-I agree with NJ. This guy LIKES having loads of female friends with bikin pics and kisses in text messaging and has not even mentioned marriage with you-so what you could see vs what IS are 2 seperate things.

 

Also-how do you really see yourself married to him yet knowing the way he interacts with them leaves you very very upset?

 

I would not be able to stay with someone who needed all that female drama in his life, why is the burden on you to trust him when every interaction is filled with inappropriateness?

 

And he is not changing, nor has he made any efforts to...so can you live with it?

 

He sounds VERY high maintenance. Yuck. Let him have all these girls he fights to stay in touch with.

 

Do you fear you won't meet anyone else? It's not true, you will.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Florida

[Paradiselost]

Thankyou so much for replying..

 

No, he has never mentioned getting married, in fact we havent talked about things long term- kids etc..I wondered if it was because he felt that with the big age difference it might freak me out, as I am only 26. Also his parents are divorced, so I dont even know his feelings on marriage, I dont know if he is scared or put off by it..

 

Florida, thankyou for your very real insight..Im crying reading it, because they are things that I have thought about, but tried to ignore I guess, as I couldnt face the thought of having to end it.

 

I have tried so hard to make myself understand his point of view, thinking I may be over-reacting, jealous and that I should just trust him. I try and supres my feelings, but ultimately it just hits me everyso often that I just cant get over it.

 

When I say i could see myself marrying him, its because aside from all this I really really love him and cant imagine being without him. He is amazing in all other ways. I can see why he has so many friends and people who just love him, because he is generous, kind, and just very good to people in general. I guess I thought it was something I could make myself get over..

 

I know I cant get over it because deep down, the way he interacts with these friends is not normal to me, and goes against my core values. Something about it just does not feel right. i would never act this way with my male friends, because I would feel that it somehow undermines our special relationship..

 

Should I give it more time? Try and talk to him yet again? The last thing I want to do is end this as I fear I might regret it

[norajane]

Should I give it more time? Try and talk to him yet again? The last thing I want to do is end this as I fear I might regret it

 

You've given it 3 years. Has he changed one little bit during that time? He's 37. He's not going to start making dramatic changes now.

[Florida]

Thankyou so much for replying..

 

No, he has never mentioned getting married, in fact we havent talked about things long term- kids etc..I wondered if it was because he felt that with the big age difference it might freak me out, as I am only 26. Also his parents are divorced, so I dont even know his feelings on marriage, I dont know if he is scared or put off by it..

 

Florida, thankyou for your very real insight..Im crying reading it, because they are things that I have thought about, but tried to ignore I guess, as I couldnt face the thought of having to end it.

 

I have tried so hard to make myself understand his point of view, thinking I may be over-reacting, jealous and that I should just trust him. I try and supres my feelings, but ultimately it just hits me everyso often that I just cant get over it.

 

When I say i could see myself marrying him, its because aside from all this I really really love him and cant imagine being without him. He is amazing in all other ways. I can see why he has so many friends and people who just love him, because he is generous, kind, and just very good to people in general. I guess I thought it was something I could make myself get over..

 

I know I cant get over it because deep down, the way he interacts with these friends is not normal to me, and goes against my core values. Something about it just does not feel right. i would never act this way with my male friends, because I would feel that it somehow undermines our special relationship..

 

Should I give it more time? Try and talk to him yet again? The last thing I want to do is end this as I fear I might regret it

 

Hi Paradise Lost

 

I did not want to sound harsh, I only wanted to help you see that what you want, and what is are at odds with eachother.

 

I give you so much credit for not apologizing or double thinking your reactions to your feelings. So many women do this, they almost want to be told to suck it up, ignore all your values and responses, because then hard decisions would not have to be made, as long as they denied everything.

 

Problem with that is suppression only lasts so long.

 

If the girls were being inappropriate, I would say there was more hope as you could discuss cutting them out. But in this case, I see your BF as being inappropriate in his responses/interactions, so this is intrinsic behavior to him.

 

Also-I don;t like that he said/you get the feeling that he would keep them over you.

 

And in a relationship, ideally those so called friendships should have dropped by the wayside as the couple grows together. That that has not happened, and that he responds with irritation, and no changes does not bode well for you as a couple. What's up with all the framed pics but none of you two?? That's alarming too.

 

Well, in your shoes, I imagine you are at breaking point, I would tell him that you don't feel this is what would constitute a healthy and secure relationship for you. This is based on what you have observed-and even worse-found out by accident. Ask how he would feel if the situation was reveresed, and what personality traits he values. Tell him you value fidelity, and actions that show he is unanimously with you. Signing off with kissy messages, overeffusive compliments and all that are not normal in the context of a relationship. And based on his actions, you have to assume he is enjoying the attractions and flirtations of all of you, at your expense. If it continues, you will know where his loyalties lie.

 

(side note-the list of his friends is so long-this does not really need to be qualified)

 

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

He sounds really fixed, and I don't see anything changing.

 

You are a young girl with a world of possibilities, and guys who will commit to you, and be faithful without having to bargain and barter over these friends.

 

He will just be some dude with meaningless friendships based on ego stroking and no substance, his loss, not yours.

 

Do you want all of them gone? Or just communicating without the flirty stuff?

How about less pics of them and more of you?

 

Be really specific about what YOU need to be comfortable. Not evertyone is meant to be together, this will decide that.

 

It just means you will find someone who does not have a need for so much validation, and he will find another girl who maybe is the same as him, and neither will be bothered by it.

 

Maybe you could give yourself a timeline, and say if he has not changed his behavior enough-then that's it. But stick with it-and you don't have to tell him about that part. Be clear with yourslf what is and isn't acceptable....and don't compromise just to keep him. If it bothers you now-it will always bother you. And rightly so.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Florida