Bad Credit = No Ring??

[sing4me]

Your boyfriends credit concern is admirable assuming that it is genuine and not just an excuse because he really doesn't want to get married. Most men have huge fears about tying the knot. I am not even going to Dis-on how his bad credit could be a sign of "for richer for poorer" you might end up with the latter till death do you part. What I do want to say is this. Jewelry stores have about a 500% mark up and your boyfriend could buy a rather nice ring and pay cash simply by going to a pawn shop or a reputable ebay or other auction seller. Please be careful if you do the auction though because jewelry and computers are the top 2 items that people get scammed on auctions. Look at the sellers "feedback" or what you would call reputation, you can also see how long they have been a member and even better if they have a store front then you are most likely dealing with a real seller instead of someone that is going to take your money and run. One more thing if you pay with a credit card make sure they have a secure payment page ( the little gold lock at the bottom of the page) Also by paying with a credit card you have a better chance of protection from a fraudulent seller Your credit card company will actually charge it back to them with in a certain time frame if you fill out forms legally stating that you either didn't recieve the merchandise or that it was damaged. I think it is either 60 or 90 days. If you or your boyfriend have thoughts about getting someone else's failed marriage left overs by purchasing this way, that is only a small percentage and mostly in the pawn shops ( a lot of them are from people who after a few years upgraded or they belonged to someone who has passed away etc. Most of what you will find in the auction's is new stuff, like I said earlier the jewelry stores have about a 500% mark up, so an auction seller who is not paying a bunch for the fancy retail store, light bill , expensive mail out ads etc. can sell much cheaper and cash is not only an affordable option but you won't be going into the marriage with another bill to pay. By the way when and if you two do tie the knot be sure and pay your Disc Jockey good wages, they are one of the most important people you will hire and most people wait and want to pay them whatever is left over after paying everyone else.

sing4me

[sing4me]

Your boyfriends credit concern is admirable assuming that it is genuine and not just an excuse because he really doesn't want to get married. Most men have huge fears about tying the knot. I am not even going to Dis-on how his bad credit could be a sign of "for richer for poorer" you might end up with the latter till death do you part. What I do want to say is this. Jewelry stores have about a 500% mark up and your boyfriend could buy a rather nice ring and pay cash simply by going to a pawn shop or a reputable ebay or other auction seller. Please be careful if you do the auction though because jewelry and computers are the top 2 items that people get scammed on auctions. Look at the sellers "feedback" or what you would call reputation, you can also see how long they have been a member and even better if they have a store front then you are most likely dealing with a real seller instead of someone that is going to take your money and run. One more thing if you pay with a credit card make sure they have a secure payment page ( the little gold lock at the bottom of the page) Also by paying with a credit card you have a better chance of protection from a fraudulent seller Your credit card company will actually charge it back to them with in a certain time frame if you fill out forms legally stating that you either didn't recieve the merchandise or that it was damaged. I think it is either 60 or 90 days. If you or your boyfriend have thoughts about getting someone else's failed marriage left overs by purchasing this way, that is only a small percentage and mostly in the pawn shops ( a lot of them are from people who after a few years upgraded or they belonged to someone who has passed away etc. Most of what you will find in the auction's is new stuff, like I said earlier the jewelry stores have about a 500% mark up, so an auction seller who is not paying a bunch for the fancy retail store, light bill , expensive mail out ads etc. can sell much cheaper and cash is not only an affordable option but you won't be going into the marriage with another bill to pay. By the way when and if you two do tie the knot be sure and pay your Disc Jockey good wages, they are one of the most important people you will hire and most people wait and want to pay them whatever is left over after paying everyone else.P.S. my husband and I don't even wear rings anymore. Him because he has broken 3 of them and me because my hands swell alot making the ring cut into my finger and hard to take off. We know we are married and that is what matters. Good Luck!

sing4me

[katie79]

I was in a very similar situation. Except, my boyfriend didn't have bad credit, he just had little money to blow. Take this from someone 25 in a relationship with a 30 year old man for almost 4 years. Keep in mind my boyfriend would bring up marriage and children with me more than I would! DON'T WAIT! Ever hear the term, "Strike while the iron is hot"? It's true. Now is the time for him to make a committment. Trust me, two years is long enough. The longer you wait, the chances of him proposing will greatly diminish. You are at a point where you are ready to move forward, and if not, you will grow bored of him. Instead of making an ultimatium with him, make one with yourself. This means, you must realize, dating him forever and sticking around, excepting his crumbs of why he can't marry you just yet wont motivate him to ever propose and set a date. While you date him another year or two, in hopes of seeing a ring, you will have lost time to meet other men who would commit to you faster and make you happier. Make an "agreement" with yourself before you mention a ring ever again to him. Tell yourself, "if this man doesn't want to make a commitment to me after 2 years, he never will and I will move on". Then you tell him in a non-threatening way, but firmly, that after 2 years of dating, you think it's time you both went ring shopping and that you would like your ring within 2 months". If he says ok, that's it. If he says no, never see him again. That's all. Another major factor that can help you change your mind and his if MONEY is an issue (don't laugh!). Get a cubic zirconia engagement ring or a moissanite engagement ring. Any jeweler will put a cz instead of a diamond in your setting. Some stores even put them in and tell you later it's a cz! Cubic zirconia's are basically a man-made diamond. They have a higher reflective level than diamonds and they are flawless! NO ONE HAS TO KNOW EXCEPT BOTH OF YOU! No one can tell a difference, even jewelers unless they go through a variety of tests! Moissanite will test positive as a diamond, so be careful! Don't feel bad about getting a cz instead of a diamond. Cubic Zirconia's are just as beautiful as a diamond and just as hard (almost, cz=8.5, diamond=10). To be honest, that's what my boyfriend and I decided to do. But he got me a nice ring, platinum and 18 K gold solitare, 1 karat from a reputable diamond store! I love it, and to be honest, I don't care if it's a man made diamond or a real one. Don't feel funny about this, it's non of anyone's business, besides, the meaning behind it is a commitment of marriage to come shortly, and you can have a beautiful ring to go with it too!

[dyermaker]

Just to clear something up, synthetic diamonds and zirconium are two different things. They can make diamonds in a laboratory out of carbon, but ZrO2 is a completely different compound with a different gravity, hardness, and luminosity.

[diamondbloke]

I ended up indeed buying my fiancee's (got engaged around 3 weeks ago, yeah) ring on Ebay. It was a very interesting situation. The ring got delivered to me the Thursday before July 4th. We were going to spend the entire holiday weekend together. When I took it out of the box I loved it. It was incredible, especially for the amount I spent. I also knew it wasn't what was descirbed exactly. I did a preliminary apprisal with someone I trust just to make sure they were in fact diamonds. Which they were.

 

That evening I go over and my fiancee proposes to me. Hehe. Guess I will never have to figure out the best way to propose. I was probably not going to propose for a couple of months but I was able to say well I do have a wonderful engagement ring for you. She LOVES it. I mean loves it. She can not stop looking at it, and I love it also.

 

I then got my wedding band on Ebay also and got a ring I love for a fantastic price. I also use Ebay quite often for jewlery. I think I am going to slow down to 1 to 3 nice pieces a year of jewlery. If you are smart and read the feedback, you can get some incredible deals on Ebay. High quality items at a fraction of a store price. In any event, something to think about.

[dudesomewhere]

I'd buy you one of those more practical candy rings...you could enjoy it while you wear it, the sugar in it provides energy to get you through the day.

 

And if you're not satisfied with that, I'd get you one of those spider rings from halloween, now you can't top those. Well, maybe a skull ring but that's it!

 

[jmargel]

Ok.. now in this day of age, if the tables were turned, where it was the woman who bought the ring and proposed.. And what if the guy were to say 'I want this kinda ring and expect it at this certain time or your history'. What would everyone say to that?

 

What if the guy were to say 'I am worth that amount in diamonds and I want it to be romantic because I have this stupid notion in my head that if the diamond is big then the more romantic and more special it would be'. I can guarantee all you women would be on this thread posting how it is SO wrong, etc..

 

For the thread starter, it sounds like he's under alot of fiancial pressure. Why are you pressuring him more about a certain ring? My god.. If all he could afford is a fake diamond, then why not just except that? What is really important here? The engagement/marriage or the ring? A ring isn't a reward for you being with him, or that you are going to spend the rest of your life with him. It's a symbol. It just so happens that this 'symbol' is a diamond, the most expensive stones around. Why not just tell him to give you a fake diamond, and when life & money permits him, he can buy you a real one if he chooses too.

 

Personally to me women who think that they are 'owed' a diamond for an engagement is being extremely selfish. It's about the person you are with, and wanting what you have. Not what you don't have. Engagments shouldn't be about material possessions. Money can't buy happiness or romance.

[katie79]

Wow, you seem very knowledgable about diamonds, cz, and moissanites. Could you tell me, what is a "synthetic diamond". WHat do you mean by, "they can make diamonds in a labortory now?'' Does this mean they are "real" diamonds that sell for the same price as natural ones? Or are these lab created diamonds called moissanite? I thought moissanite was a natural stone? Do you have any recent knowledge on cz's? Are they bad? I heard they are hard stones (8.5 and diamond is 10). Are they plastic? A jeweler told me they weren't plastic. I'm really confused, could you tell me the differences? You seem very educated in this matter.

[katie79]

Quote from JMARGEL:

"My god.. If all he could afford is a fake diamond, then why not just except that? What is really important here? The engagement/marriage or the ring? A ring isn't a reward for you being with him, or that you are going to spend the rest of your life with him. It's a symbol. It just so happens that this 'symbol' is a diamond, the most expensive stones around. Why not just tell him to give you a fake diamond, and when life & money permits him, he can buy you a real one if he chooses too."

 

I have to agree with you. My bf works hard, he doesn't have a great deal money b/c he's paying for school and stuff. Yes, he's 30, but to be honest, I would rather he put 3 months salary towards a wedding and a pleace for us to live. The ring he got me was from a diamond store, it was platinum and 18Kgold, which is very expensive. I just picked it out and fell in love with it. The jeweler told us it was a cz, but I didn't care, the stone was high quality (they said) and I loved it! It was just a little under $600 (on sale), which I think is a reasonable price. JMARGEL=as a man, do you think this is bad that he is getting me a cz? He feels bad about it, but I told him I don't care, which I don't. To be honest, I think cz's are beautiful stones too! They are shiny and flawless and almost as hard. In my book, if it looks and wears like a diamond, why spend the few thousand on a real one when you can have the same for a fraction of the price? I know he feels like "less of a man", and I hope he doesn't think less of me for accepting this. However, we both decided only "we" would know about this. Am I the only girl who wouldn't care? AM I alone on this matter? I feel that I am for some reason. It's just I'd rather have a nice sized stone, like a karat/karat-in-a-half instead of a real diamond that looks like a dot that had many flaws. Tell me, is this bad that I told my bf I don't care? Yes, I believe a ring should symbolize commitment, but at the same time, I don't want to drowned him in debt for a stupid diamond. I'm giving this girl advice on a alternative, and I just don't want to give her the wrong advice? What do you think of this from a guy's point of view?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by katie79

Could you tell me, what is a "synthetic diamond". WHat do you mean by, "they can make diamonds in a labortory now?''

A diamond is an allotrope of carbon, like graphite (pencil lead). It's created naturally underground, after the carbon is under heat and pressure, and in order to become jewelry, people (usually slaves) have to work in dangerous conditions to mine them out. However, because we know the properties of diamonds, we can create diamonds in a laboratory by simulating the proccess of what nature does in millions of years. Basically, the process of creating diamonds still takes a long time, and rarely yield large stones. Most synthetic diamonds are used industrially, and not for jewelry. For example, record needles are often made of synthetic diamond.

 

A synthetic diamond is a diamond that was produced in a laboratory, not an imitation diamond.

Does this mean they are "real" diamonds that sell for the same price as natural ones?

Scientifically, they are "real" diamonds. However, they've been stigmatized as "less-than" diamonds, because they weren't created by nature like natural diamonds. Some companies, who can create diamonds in a lab, are trying to overcome this stigma. Other companies, like DeBeers, are trying to push the fallacy that synthetic diamonds are fake, and a girl deserves better. Sadly, DeBeers has such a monopoly on the Diamond industry that these small companies have a difficult time overcoming this opposition.

 

Theoretically, diamonds aren't that rare at all. DeBeers just has such a strong monopoly on the diamond trade that they're able to keep prices insanely high. Since they don't have a monopoly on synthetic diamonds, synthetic diamonds sell for less than natural ones. I haven't read market research in the last 6 months, but I'm pretty sure the number is 25-30% less per carat than natural diamonds.

Or are these lab created diamonds called moissanite? I thought moissanite was a natural stone?

A moissanite stone is not a diamond. Dr. Moissan (I'm almost positive) discovered this mineral on an ancient meteor in Arizona well over 100 years ago. While this is a natural stone, it exists in extremely small quantitites--I don't think it's ever been isolated naturally outside of that one meteor.

 

The use of moissanite in jewelry is fairly recent, I'd say within the last ten years. Recently they've figured out a way to create large moissonite crystals, which when properly cut, are ideal for jewelry. A natural moissanite jewel is unheard of, I think it's safe to say that 100% of moissanite jewelry is synthetic moissanite.

Do you have any recent knowledge on cz's?

CZ (which I've also heard called Fianite) replaced rhinestone and cut glass as the diamond imitation of choice. This is also extremely rare in nature, so CZ jewelry is synthetic as well. They have a higher dispersion, which means that they often look "flashier". CZ also weighs more. Because they are made synthetically, they are virtually flawless, and are usually made to be completely colorless. However, they're often poorly-cut, having rounded facets, and a microscope can tell the difference. The simplest test to determine the difference between CZ and diamond is to apply a thermal probe to it. A CZ is a thermal insulator, while a diamond conducts heat extremely well (better than copper).

Are they bad?

That's completely subjective. I would think buying a "natural" diamond that was financed by a bloodthirsty syndicate of murderous slave-drivers would be 'bad', but a majority of women disagree with me. CZ's are inferior to diamonds, yes.

I heard they are hard stones (8.5 and diamond is 10).

Your numbers are right, but it's a stretch to call them 'almost as hard'. Cubic Zirconia is an 8.5 on the "Mohs Scale", and diamonds are a 10. However, the Mohs scale is a curve, not a line. So the difference between a 5 and a 6 is ten times more than the difference between a 4 and a 5. Cubic Zirconia, with a Mohs hardness of 8.5, is on the softer side of jewelry. CZ's often have a lower lustre, and because of their hardness, they are prone to surface scratches. For a comparison, Topaz is an 8, Rubies and Sapphires are 9's, Moissanite is a 9.25, and diamond is a 10.

Are they plastic? A jeweler told me they weren't plastic.

No, they're definitely not plastic, and as far as I know, no one uses plastic as diamond imitation.

[katie79]

oh. wow! you know a great deal about gemstones! Perhaps you should go into that field, unless you already are. if the cz stone does scratch or discolor in my e-ring, which is "tension set", would it be a pain in the but to put in a new stone in a few years (cz or not)? Is that bad for the actual setting or ring? thanks, you've been most helpful!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by katie79

if the cz stone does scratch or discolor in my e-ring, which is "tension set", would it be a pain in the but to put in a new stone in a few years (cz or not)?

The tension setting is beautiful, and I don't think that it's more prone to scratching than the bezel or the claw set. Putting in a new stone isn't something you should do yourself, you should let a jeweler do it.

Is that bad for the actual setting or ring?

No, if the jeweler is a trained professional, he or she should be able to reset a stone without damaging either the stone or the setting. If it is damaged, I don't see why the jeweler wouldn't be liable to replace it.

[katie79]

Okay, thanks! You were very helpful! Good luck to you! As for the lady who posted this thread in the first place, I think from the comments I recieved so far, perhaps a simulated diamond (fake diamond) would be best for the time being. Or you could go to a jeweler and they can sell you a small diamond ring for like $200-300. My best guess is to go with a cz (for size purposes) and not tell a soul it's fake---that's something b/t you and your bf. Look at it this way, maybe in a few years or so, he can get you a real diamond for a special holiday. No one will know a difference--unless you tell them! Tell your fiancee to be you don't mind a cz as a sub for a diamond.