whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Okay, before this turns into an OW vs BS thread, let's just stop going down that path and go the other way. Each of them played a part in this mess, and the OP needs some help in HOW to cope and deal with things now. What's done is done, it's out of her hands completely. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 But this is the part I don't get... Not only did he throw me under the bus, he specifically said who I was, AND now his kids know. His kids were always "the reason" he'd stayed for so long, so why in the world would he have ended things with his W like THIS?!?! I mean, other than walking in on us having sex I can't even think of a worse way for them to find out their parents are getting divorced. I do feel terrible about his kids. I know they are good kids and they did know their parents weren't getting along and that their dad was going to be moving out. I wish his W would have spared them all the graphic details, but they would have figured it out eventually anyway. So did the kids know their parents were splitting up, or didn't they?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks WWIU I do.... today (and last night) have been awful. I know they were awful for him, and his W and his kids too ~ believe me. But, I guess I'm just trying to figure out what to do for US to move forward. I met up with him for about an hour today and he was a wreck. He was wearing the same clothes from yesterday, he forgot his wallet, he is exhausted from no sleep. Of course, we still have several things to talk about ~ specifically work. He has hardly been in contact with me, which I understand, but hate. I don't want to be an OW anymore. I have always hated the secrets and the lies. It's not who I am. I hate that even now he has to sneak away to talk or text me. He's also still at his house!! They have no guest room, so he is sleeping on the couch! I CANNOT understand how after all of that, he can go home and still be in his house!?! I have so many questions I want to ask him about his W's personality. I am suspecting that she is far more controlling than I ever imagined. Which would explain so much about why he stayed... Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) . Each of them played a part in this mess, and the OP needs some help in HOW to cope and deal with things now. What's done is done, it's out of her hands completely. NO way I don't adhere to that idea at all sorry. Each of them DID NOT play a part, when a person wants out of a relationship it doesn't help to bring in someone else into the equation for the sake of the overall complexity of the sitatuation and morally it is wrong but the bottom line is that need to get out is CLEARLY already there. And no amount of trying to put down or badgering the OW about her stance in a matrimonial break-up is going to change that. I am sorry but I stand up for what I believe in, projecting false realities HELPS NO ONE. So let's just set the record straight right now. Speak to any man/woman who wanted out of a marriage and who goes through with it and they will tell you that being with OP just reaffirms what were are already feeling. Edited January 2, 2008 by Tomcat33 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 The kids knew that there was a good chance their dad was going to move out after the holidays, but there was no specific date set, etc. I think they thought their parents were "seperating". They were well aware they had been having lots of problems. MM and his W had been in counseling for a long time. The W apparently has more of a "friend" role with her kids. I don't think she has many friends of her own. She is pretty non-social.... judges others.... not someone I'd really want as a friend. I've met her a couple of times before anything was going on with me and MM. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 You also need to question his personality and how he handles things too. After everything that happened, he is still there and she didn't throw him out. Something is really wrong here. The kids know and are devastated, so unless he's staying to make the peace, or talk things through, he should be staying at a family members house or a friends house. I know you probably feel he should be with you, but for his kids sake, if they need to see or talk to him, it's best for them if he isn't staying with you at your home right now.. I am suspecting that she is far more controlling than I ever imagined Or he is too wimpy to stand up to her. Could be abit of both though. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 The kids knew that there was a good chance their dad was going to move out after the holidays, but there was no specific date set, etc. I think they thought their parents were "seperating". They were well aware they had been having lots of problems. MM and his W had been in counseling for a long time. But to do it on New Years Day is very crappy timing...They'll forever remember this date as associate EVERY New Year with what happened. Just wish he would have considered the date and wish his wife realized that too. TC, you have your opinion on it and I have mine. Agree to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 He's also still at his house!! They have no guest room, so he is sleeping on the couch! I CANNOT understand how after all of that, he can go home and still be in his house!?! I have so many questions I want to ask him about his W's personality. I am suspecting that she is far more controlling than I ever imagined. Which would explain so much about why he stayed... Uh... the kids, remember? Link to post Share on other sites
StillSame Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 She is pretty non-social.... judges others.... not someone I'd really want as a friend. I've met her a couple of times before anything was going on with me and MM. Listen to yourself. She is the one who's judgemental? He's also still at his house!! They have no guest room, so he is sleeping on the couch! I CANNOT understand how after all of that, he can go home and still be in his house!?! Maybe he exaggerated his situation with his wife. Maybe deep down, she is the one whom he truly want to be with for the long run and you're just someone one the side that he uses for fun. Or someone he uses untill the real thing comes along. Link to post Share on other sites
underpants Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 NO way I don't adhere to that idea at all sorry. Each of them DID NOT play a part Ahh, A triangle has 3 sides. In this particuliar triangle one side was obtuse. What we are witnessing NOW is a breaking of the triangle. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 TC, you have your opinion on it and I have mine. Agree to disagree. I'll gladly agree to disagree wouldn't be the first time WWIU What I will never do is come to your side of the coin to say "yes you were right they both played a part in breaking up the man's marriage". NEVER, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Ahh, A triangle has 3 sides. In this particuliar triangle one side was obtuse. What we are witnessing NOW is a breaking of the triangle. Ahh yes that is one aspect of it in terms of the affair relationship VS marital one. But a marriage has two participants and ONLY ONE of those participants if not BOTH of them can break that marriage, NO ONE from the outside has the power to break that. And a lot of people fail to see this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 You should see the list of questions I have growing for him.... I'm absolutely questioning his personality/judgement (and yes I know he already made bad judgement by having an A with me) based on how he has handled this... It's actually pretty scary. I thought I knew him better than this. I can't figure out if she is just so controlling and he is afraid to stand up to her or if he is just a freakin' HUGE wimp?!? Or if there is some other reason?? I DO NOT get how he can be in that house tonight. First, it's not healthy for him, the kids or his W. I asked him to stay in a hotel, and money is not an issue, but he is staying there. The New Years thing is really crappy... Like I said initially, he had complete control over how this played out. I'm really disappointed that he didn't plan it better. I understand if he had to tell his W about us, but he certainly could have picked a better time/place to do so. His kids were home, and late on New Years Eve was just plain wrong. That was the first thing that upset me... that is why I said he was irresponsible. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Maybe he exaggerated his situation with his wife. Maybe deep down, she is the one whom he truly want to be with for the long run and you're just someone one the side that he uses for fun. Or someone he uses untill the real thing comes along. Highly unlikely, don't you think, with all that's happened today? And the "prepping" of the W? And the kids knowing their Dad was going to move out after the holidays? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 A triangle has 3 sides. In this particuliar triangle one side was obtuse. And by the way a triangle has all sides that connect, in this case it is nothing more than an ANGLE, because two of the sides DON'T connect. So nice try on the analogy but no cigar tighty whitey! Link to post Share on other sites
StillSame Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Isn't it clear that he doens't really care much about you? When things get tough, he drags you down with him or as you and others put it, throw you under the bus. The bottom line is, when things get tough, he failed to protect you. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Ahh yes that is one aspect of it in terms of the affair relationship VS marital one. But a marriage has two participants and ONLY ONE of those participants if not BOTH of them can break that marriage, NO ONE from the outside has the power to break that. And a lot of people fail to see this. So, TC, will you agree with me then that CMC should stay out of the mess between MM and his wife? DO NOT get how he can be in that house tonight. First, it's not healthy for him, the kids or his W. I asked him to stay in a hotel, and money is not an issue, but he is staying there. Because right now it's not about you. This is once again about HIM and how HE will handle things without discussing it with you, or including you in what he wants to do. He has kept you in the dark, so to speak and as much as you feel he shouldn't be there, it's his choice to make. Honestly, you may never know the real reason why. I mean, what if his wife told him to get the F out and he refused to leave, and they've talked, calmed down abit...You don't know what is going on over there..This is why I mentioned earlier that you should just give him space. if he needs you, he'll call you, but right now he HAS to try his best to smooth things over with his kids, talk to them, answer their questions. Again, this isn't about you, his choice to stay in the house. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 You should see the list of questions I have growing for him.... I'm absolutely questioning his personality/judgement (and yes I know he already made bad judgement by having an A with me) based on how he has handled this... It's actually pretty scary. I thought I knew him better than this. I can't figure out if she is just so controlling and he is afraid to stand up to her or if he is just a freakin' HUGE wimp?!? Or if there is some other reason?? I DO NOT get how he can be in that house tonight. First, it's not healthy for him, the kids or his W. I asked him to stay in a hotel, and money is not an issue, but he is staying there. The New Years thing is really crappy... Like I said initially, he had complete control over how this played out. I'm really disappointed that he didn't plan it better. I understand if he had to tell his W about us, but he certainly could have picked a better time/place to do so. His kids were home, and late on New Years Eve was just plain wrong. That was the first thing that upset me... that is why I said he was irresponsible. I would bet money he's staying in the house because of his kids... the same reason why he stayed in the M all along, for way longer (apparently) than he should have. He is no doubt very concerned about their safety and stability right now, with the W being so upset. No telling what she will do to them next. And whether or not you think it's healthy for his family, IT'S NOT YOUR CALL. It is entirely his call. It's his KIDS we're talking about here. They will always be at the top of his list. Link to post Share on other sites
Jilly Bean Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Crazy, generally when a guy tells his wife he is having an affair, he then goes to the mistresses house, OR to a friends place or hotel. This didn't happen. Why do you think that is? Sometimes, things need to hit a TOTAL rock bottom and be completely shattered before they can be rebuilt. The option exists that he is still with her because they are trying to work things out. Perhaps they both needed to face REALLY being apart, before they realized they really wanted to be together. Keep in mind that everything he has told you he told her is pure hearsay. You really know not what is going on in their reality, nor did you ever truly know. He is a man who cheated on his wife, lied to her for a long time about it, too. Do you honestly think he hasn't lied to you at all? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 So, TC, will you agree with me then that CMC should stay out of the mess between MM and his wife? Absolutely!! She has no business coaching or playing therapist at this point, if that is what you meant. I am a firm believer that she should let him do as he needs to do even if it means walking away and suffering the loss for a while, if it is true love and it is meant to be they have already proven to each other they love each other, and now he is ready (apparently to make the move) then after he does what he does to end things at home he will be with her. Now more than ever she needs to step aside and let him do what he needs to do. Reassure him that she loves him and she will be there if she is going to be but step aside completely. Why? because he has to be 100% sure this is what he wants to do for his sake for his marriage's sake for her sake. Love is not needing a person 24/7 in order to prevent personal pain and suffering, love is knowing how to let go because you want what is best for the person you love not what feels best for you right now. Something both OW and BSs should learn when they grip with dear life to the man who is on the fence. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 OpenBook and WWIU you're both right... I do struggle with the fact that I don't have all of him.... I know I have a lot of him, but until he is done with her, there is a lot I do not and probably will not know. That hurts, but it is the reality of what I've chosen. I'm sure that his W and I are feeling a lot of the same stuff. Neither of us have all of him and he is sharing certain things with each of us that the other doesn't get... I just hope that ends really really really soon... I'm trying to stay positive and prepare myself for whatever comes next. I know I sound silly saying it, but he is a really great dad. He'd do anything for his kids, and it is killing him to know how much they are hurting. That is exactly why he stayed married for so long... he was willing to sacrifice his own happiness thinking it was best for them to stay with her. Eventually he broke down and I happened to come into his life right when he couldn't go on any longer. Was that right? I don't know... I couldn't do it. But that was the decision he made. He told me today he knows he should have left so long ago, and he feels like he wasted 20 years... he's really low right now. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Absolutely!! She has no business coaching or playing therapist at this point, if that is what you meant. That's exactly what I meant. Some OW in the past used to feel they wanted nothing to do with the marriage, it was between MM and his wife, but after a D-Day, that changes and some OW have wanted to be involved, to be part of that process, supporting and all the other lovely (being sarcastic) stuff D-Day brings along.. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I can't feel sorry for him, CMC. I just can't. He could have dealt with this in so many other ways, he could have completely ended things with you, done the divorce on his terms and maturely, gone to counselling to get help, to get stronger so he could leave, instead he chose to do it this way. I hope HE gets counselling after all this gets settled because HE needs to grow a pair of you know what's...And for you, I am concerned that he has this wussy trait, being passive and walking on egg shells..He needs to learn how to grow in a positive way from this awful situation and all the pain he's caused. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 I don't really feel sorry for him either.... I hate to see him hurting, but he put himself in this situation. I never asked him to leave but I was shocked he let it drag on this long. I don't understand that. I was married before as well. I planned my divorce and never did anything with anyone until I had filed the papers. I will never understand why/how he did this with me, but I don't have kids either. So maybe if I did I would? But, I also never thought I'd be an OW. This is one thing about him (the passive/walking on egg shells) that I really am going to think heavily about. Like I said, I have a long list of questions that we'll be going over once he's settled and out of his house with her. He completely needs counseling... and I probably do too after all this In fact, somedays I want to commit myself. Lol. I would never recomment that anyone be an OW or enter into an A. Yes, I love him, so it's been the biggest love and most pain I've ever experienced all at once. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 That's exactly what I meant. Some OW in the past used to feel they wanted nothing to do with the marriage, it was between MM and his wife, but after a D-Day, that changes and some OW have wanted to be involved, to be part of that process, supporting and all the other lovely (being sarcastic) stuff D-Day brings along.. Well "I" don't beleive the OW should be involved and I never wanted to be involved in any of that while I was with my ex, I would tell him go work it out and come back to me when you do. BUT that is not to say some women wouldn't want to be the support (or emotional cushion as I see it more) for the man during his break up. But for me it is not a moral choice it is a matter of what I feel I am capable of, the marriage is breaking up regardless of whether the OW gets involved in supporting him during the breakup process or not. Some OW don't mind being there through all the gory details watching his emotional roller coaster happen, other women do. For a friend it is easy to do for the man you love I don't think it would be that easy, NOR would I want to influence his decision in ANY way, because it has to come from him not because I wanted him to do something. But tha's me and I am not everyone... Link to post Share on other sites
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