whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Whatever you decide to do, slow things down abit with him. I mean, let him live on his own and bond again with his kids before he moves in with you. I really hope he isn't planning on moving into your house so soon. Counselling is a good idea, together and apart. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Something else, sorry if I am being nosy...Does he want more kids? Is this something you want? Children with him? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 sorry I meant to end it with it has to come from him AND his W what they decide to do the OP should play not part in that and the reality is that the OP can't be neutral to the situation so..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Oh no, he's not moving in with me! I'm not ready for that quite yet! Plus... he has his kids and I don't want to completely scar them.... I know I've done enough damage. He has rented an apartment really close to his house so he can be close to his kids. He signed a year long lease. I have been married once before, and while this R has definitely not started the way I had pictured.... I'm committed to taking it S L O W. I really don't want to make another mistake and want to really talk through several things to be sure that this is the right decision. I think it is... but we also haven't had a real relationship yet. Yes, we love each other, and have been together for nearly a year, but we have not been able to have the full experience of being a couple and experiencing normal things that couples do. That will be the true test (along with this mess....) of our love. Link to post Share on other sites
Frances Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Does not say much for counselling. Of course mm could have lied about that as well. What are the chances of a mm lying to ow? 99% would not be a bad bet IMO. People having affairs pretending to be adults but in fact are so immature they only think of themselves. Saying they can not help themselves, who are they kidding they are just the me me brigade. Why care about the children involved as long as they get their kicks. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 He's also still at his house!! They have no guest room, so he is sleeping on the couch! I CANNOT understand how after all of that, he can go home and still be in his house!?! Well, I think others have touched on this, but I will say, from a father's perspective, that if my kids are in an emotionally precarious situation, the last thing I want to do is separate myself physically from them, and although you say you think that's not healthy for the kids, as long as there is not continued hostility being slung back and forth, I'm not sure it's healthy for them for dad to disappear either. ... he is a really great dad. He'd do anything for his kids, and it is killing him to know how much they are hurting. That is exactly why he stayed married for so long... ... and that may be why he's on the couch, instead of having left immediately. ... a marriage has two participants and ONLY ONE of those participants if not BOTH of them can break that marriage, NO ONE from the outside has the power to break that. And a lot of people fail to see this. She has no business coaching or playing therapist at this point, if that is what you meant. I am a firm believer that she should let him do as he needs to do even if it means walking away and suffering the loss for a while.... Why? because he has to be 100% sure this is what he wants to do for his sake for his marriage's sake for her sake. ...but aren't you of the opinion that the OW does not break up the marriage - that it's just an open "angle" between the married partners and the OW has no power to affect that relationship? Whatever is going to happen happens because it was already in motion, it's controlled and decided ONLY by the marriage partners, and the OW doen't influence that, right? So why would she need to step back, why would she "have no business" staying involved in her relationship with him? Isn't their outside relationship completely separate and unrelated to the marital relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
StillSame Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Oh no, he's not moving in with me! I'm not ready for that quite yet! Do you see how little you have at stake here and how unfair it is to his wife and the kids. When things doesn't work out between you and him, a home is wrecked, children left growing up without dad at home, his W's life completely shattered, etc. And you on the other hand, you can just walk away. Don't even start to justify that you have nothing to do with the breaking of the marriage. I know I've done enough damage. Do you really know the extend of the damage that you have and will continue to do? Link to post Share on other sites
underpants Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 ...but aren't you of the opinion that the OW does not break up the marriage - that it's just an open "angle" between the married partners and the OW has no power to affect that relationship? Whatever is going to happen happens because it was already in motion, it's controlled and decided ONLY by the marriage partners, and the OW doen't influence that, right? So why would she need to step back, why would she "have no business" staying involved in her relationship with him? Isn't their outside relationship completely separate and unrelated to the marital relationship? That is a good point...disrespect...then all of a sudden....respect. Games. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 ...but aren't you of the opinion that the OW does not break up the marriage - that it's just an open "angle" between the married partners and the OW has no power to affect that relationship? Whatever is going to happen happens because it was already in motion, it's controlled and decided ONLY by the marriage partners, and the OW doen't influence that, right? So why would she need to step back, why would she "have no business" staying involved in her relationship with him? Isn't their outside relationship completely separate and unrelated to the marital relationship? For the wellbeing of HER future relationship, nothing more nothing less. So that she gets him at his best when he puts all the pain and suffering of the divorce to rest and they can start fresh. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Do you see how little you have at stake here and how unfair it is to his wife and the kids. How "little" she has at stake? Excuse me but with the exception of the children BOTH women have the exact same thing at stake here they have their hearts at stake EVERY SINGlE THING ELSE is completely material and replaceable. How arrogant to say that! Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Of course you would see that, you only see the negative that you want to see. Can't be objective for even a minute can you? Unfortunately in this situation there is alot of negative things and CMC is aware of the X's and rollercoaster ride that is going to happen for a long long time. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 For the wellbeing of HER future relationship, nothing more nothing less. So that she gets him at his best when he puts all the pain and suffering of the divorce to rest and they can start fresh. Sorry, I am trying to be objective, but I must have read too much into comments like these... ...it has to come from him AND his W what they decide to do the OP should play not part in that and the reality is that the OP can't be neutral to the situation so..... Well "I" don't beleive the OW should be involved and I never wanted to be involved in any of that while I was with my ex, I would tell him go work it out and come back to me when you do. ...NOR would I want to influence his decision in ANY way, because it has to come from him not because I wanted him to do something. It just sounds like you are saying: step back, because as an OW, you might influence what happens in their marriage. Where before you were saying, very firmly, that the OW just flat out doesn't. Just trying to clarify. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 How "little" she has at stake? Excuse me but with the exception of the children BOTH women have the exact same thing at stake here they have their hearts at stake EVERY SINGlE THING ELSE is completely material and replaceable. How arrogant to say that! And in order to try to stay on topic, and address the OP's request for advice, I would suggest that if you find yourself rationalizing your position with phrases like "with the exception of the children..." you consider that for him (MM) he may not be able to cast those considerations aside quite so easily. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 TomCat ~ I should say that I've done my best to stay completely out of the R that MM has/had with his W. I never once asked him to leave, gave him deadlines, threats, etc. I've made it really clear that I will not judge him for any decision he makes. Obviously those are things that I cannot decide and would not want to decide because I don't know the whole story. It's hard... but I'm trying to stay out and just be there for him when he needs. WWIU ~ good question! We have talked about this.... many times. He probably does not specifically want more children, but he doesn't not want them either. He has told me several times that until you have children, you only experience 2/3 of real love. So, he said that he could not deprive me of that 1/3 love out there. The catch is that he had a vasectomy several years ago.... SO, he would need to have that reversed (he spoke with his dr. and it's possible) and there's no guarantees... I have always felt that I could go either way about kids, so if it's possible, I'd love to have one. If not, I'm hoping that one day his girls will accept me and we can be friends. Also just an update.... I spoke with MM a few minutes ago. He said that he and his W have been talking throughout the day about their R and how/why/when it failed. She actually said she forgave him, she doesn't hate me and thinks they will both be better/happier now. I'm a little shocked. I think it was a good thing for him to stay there and work through whatever else they needed to resolve so they can both move forward. I feel amazingly better right now. I don't think she will do anything in a hateful/fit of rage, it seems she got that out last night and is accepting everything today. She obviously already knew their relationship had flaws if they were in the process of seperating and had been in counseling for so long. MM admitted the other A he had had a long time ago as well, so I think he's a lot happier getting all that off his chest. I sincerely hope this is a sign of good things to come. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 MM admitted the other A he had had a long time ago as well, so I think he's a lot happier getting all that off his chest This concerns me. So, you aren't his first affair...Another thing HE needs to work on, communication, speaking his mind and not running away from his problems. Hopefully this is a new start for him, and he will learn from his mistakes. Painful mistakes to learn from, on the expense of his wife and ofcourse his kids... have always felt that I could go either way about kids, so if it's possible, I'd love to have one. If not, I'm hoping that one day his girls will accept me and we can be friends. You could adopt. Anyway, take things one step at a time... Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Sorry, I am trying to be objective, but I must have read too much into comments like these... It just sounds like you are saying: step back, because as an OW, you might influence what happens in their marriage. Where before you were saying, very firmly, that the OW just flat out doesn't. Just trying to clarify. the obejctive comment was not directed at you it was directed at Underpants who claims I disrepect and the suddenly respect because she OBVIOULSY missed my point. So let me clarify to you as well Trimmer The reason she should step away is because it will only tarnish their relationship she cant be objective when supporting him but and I think it is better for HER not to be so involved in it all it will only make him resent her in the end if they end up arguing over things or he doesn't get the support he thinks he should be getting etc. She is not his therapist. It is NOt easy to support a man going through a divorce especially a man you love. What he will do with the marriage AGAIN is up to him and his W nothing the OW says or does can influence that. What CAN happen though is it can make for some hard times with the OW so why do that now? If they are going to be together then let him deal with his situation and be there for him when he is free to give her HIS ALL. Since clearly he cannot do that now. Sorry but I am protecting the OW in this cas since she is the one reaching out and the W I am sure has her support system in place. If it was his W posting I would have my share of support for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Also just an update.... I spoke with MM a few minutes ago. He said that he and his W have been talking throughout the day about their R and how/why/when it failed. She actually said she forgave him, she doesn't hate me and thinks they will both be better/happier now. I'm a little shocked. I think it was a good thing for him to stay there and work through whatever else they needed to resolve so they can both move forward. I feel amazingly better right now. I don't think she will do anything in a hateful/fit of rage, it seems she got that out last night and is accepting everything today. She obviously already knew their relationship had flaws if they were in the process of seperating and had been in counseling for so long. MM admitted the other A he had had a long time ago as well, so I think he's a lot happier getting all that off his chest. I sincerely hope this is a sign of good things to come. YIKES! sounds like she is ready to give him another chance, that's how I read what you are saying here. Am I off? how do you feel about that? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 TomCat ~ I should say that I've done my best to stay completely out of the R that MM has/had with his W. I never once asked him to leave, gave him deadlines, threats, etc. I've made it really clear that I will not judge him for any decision he makes. Obviously those are things that I cannot decide and would not want to decide because I don't know the whole story. It's hard... but I'm trying to stay out and just be there for him when he needs. I believe what you are saying. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Even if she gives him another chance, it shouldn't matter at all UNLESS HE wants to stay married to her. If he was wanting to leave all along, after everything that has happened, he needs to go and their conversation that happened tonight shouldn't make a difference. The only good thing about them talking is, it'll be easier on the kids as they'll still be co-parents together and always be in eachothers lives to a point because of the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Even if she gives him another chance, it shouldn't matter at all UNLESS HE wants to stay married to her. If he was wanting to leave all along, after everything that has happened, he needs to go and their conversation that happened tonight shouldn't make a difference. The only good thing about them talking is, it'll be easier on the kids as they'll still be co-parents together and always be in eachothers lives to a point because of the kids. Yeah IF he was wanting to leave, which is why you never really know who these situations will turn until the all the poop hits the fan. Don't mean to be negative but just being realistic that it's not really over until the fat lady sings... Link to post Share on other sites
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 I guess I should have been a little more clear with that comment... She probably would have forgiven him if she thought there was a chance to make things work. However, he made it clear that the reason he started the R with ME was because he felt they had lost the "connection" that they once had. He said that he no longer was in love with her, and that he did not think they were soul mates. He said that he had a connection with me, emotionally/spiritually which lead him to cross that line physically. I think they talked a lot about what they both did wrong to contribute to the demise of their M. Which apparently they both agreed occurred over 10 years ago.... (their marriage "ended") He specifically said to the W "I do not want to make this work". According to him, she knows it's over and that this is the last night they are staying in the same house. She is not going to tell anyone right away either because she doesn't want to jeopardize his job/my job until I can quit. Obviously she has a vested interest in him having a job and supporting her.... I'm cautiously optimistic.... Link to post Share on other sites
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I guess I should have been a little more clear with that comment... She probably would have forgiven him if she thought there was a chance to make things work. However, he made it clear that the reason he started the R with ME was because he felt they had lost the "connection" that they once had. He said that he no longer was in love with her, and that he did not think they were soul mates. He said that he had a connection with me, emotionally/spiritually which lead him to cross that line physically. I think they talked a lot about what they both did wrong to contribute to the demise of their M. Which apparently they both agreed occurred over 10 years ago.... (their marriage "ended") He specifically said to the W "I do not want to make this work". According to him, she knows it's over and that this is the last night they are staying in the same house. She is not going to tell anyone right away either because she doesn't want to jeopardize his job/my job until I can quit. Obviously she has a vested interest in him having a job and supporting her.... I'm cautiously optimistic.... You know that once he begins a relationship with you that you may become the new wife and may see all his flaws and faults. What if he is a serial cheater. I mean he's cheating on the wife with you, what makes you think that the minute you turn your back down the line he wont get another mistress??? Just something to ponder. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 CMC, just catching up with your thread now. It seems a lot has happened very fast for you / to you. My MM made the break before the holiday season, and the kids have chosen to spend most of the time with him and his family rather than his W and her family which has left her very bitter, resentful and angry. She felt he should have waited until the holidays were past... though I suspect whenever it happened would never have been a "good" time IHO. I read somewhere that most marital break-ups in the northern hemisphere happen this time of year - combination of grey depressing weather and the holiday season, with people being forced into close contact with each other (and held indoors by the bad weather, often) and their patience and tolerance runs out. While I'm sorry it had to happen in such a fashion, I don't think it's bad that your R is now out in the open. In my experience, the support we've (MM & I) gotten from his family, friends and colleagues has been enormously important, and dilutes the "support burden" so that the OW (me, in this case) isn't the only one the MM can turn to to discuss stuff that is best discussed elsewhere (like the anger he is now feeling towards his W for all the abuse over the years). My MM had told his kids "there was someone else" long before he told his W - who seems still not to believe it - partly to prepare them for the separation but also to have some control over how they got to hear and what they got to hear, initially. They were very supportive - surprisingly so, he found, and they're only slightly older than your MM's kids. Kids of that age are remarkably perceptive, and while their first reaction tends to be "how is this going to impact on me?" they are genuinely concerned for their parents' happiness. I think his W's way of telling them probably hit harder because she forced them to acknowledge that their father had a sex life - something teenagers really don't want to consider as a possibility in their parents! (If she'd said, your father is F&*^%ing me! their response would no doubt have been little different.) Good luck CMC - I know this time is very rough for all parties involved, and for those on the periphery. I hope you find another job soon, and that some sanity seeps back into your daily life so that the decisions you take can be considered and grounded, and not in haste or fear. Link to post Share on other sites
justice Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I don't feel sorry for CMC or her MM. They did what they did and this is the consequences of doing wrong all the way around. MM could have chosen to do the right thing and divorce before starting an affair with someone else or CMC could have turned aside his advances in the beginning. Just goes to show what I've always said. "This could have been avoided." Link to post Share on other sites
american-woman Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 This is what happens when one enters an affair with a MM/MW. It not only hurts the spouse but the whole family. They all had the right to know. I just hope the wife can pick up the pieces. Link to post Share on other sites
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