How do you KNOW that your affair isn't contributing to the decline of their marriage?

[Owl]

How are you so sure that your relationship with MP isn’t affecting his marriage???

 

Emotional intimacy is actually a pretty simple concept to understand. Its all about sharing. Sharing feelings, ideas, dreams…talking about daily events, spending time together, etc… It’s the thing you treasure the most about YOUR time with MP, right? Its what led to the two of you being so close...by talking about his marital problems, by sharing ideas and dreams and time...this is what led the two of you to fall in love, right?

 

Physical intimacy works in a very similar fashion. By being physically and sexually with someone, you build bonds. Its ‘investing’. The more you are with that person, the more you WANT to be with that person. The more enjoyable the experience is for both of you, the more you want more.

 

Nothing very amazing about any of that, right?

 

Well, here’s the deal. When MP is doing all that sharing with you, he’s NOT sharing that with his wife. He’s no longer putting any of that investment into his marriage…he’s investing it in his relationship with you, instead.

 

Yes, I know…he’s insisted that they’ve not been ‘in love’ for years. They’re in a ‘sexless marriage’. While it might not be as MUCH as he’d like…he was still investing it in her in some fashion before the affair. He HAD to…it has to go somewhere.

 

So you see, the affair almost immediately starts deteriorating the state of the marriage too. Because now the OP is getting what the BS used to get…even if they didn’t seem to appreciate it (to MP’s eyes). It creates a sense of distance between the two of them that wasn’t nearly that great until the affair started. Often, the BS is “comfortable” with how the marriage is. They don’t realize that their spouse is that unhappy. If they DID realize the extent of it, normally they would start making changes.

 

But when the affair starts, the MP suddenly becomes “cold and distant” to the BS. They stop sharing anything with the BS. It HURTS…it’s a change in the marriage. They don’t talk about those dreams/feelings/daily events…the physical intimacy change can go either way. Either the MP suddenly withdraws in that area too…OR…and this is equally common…the amount and quality of the physical side of the marriage INCREASES. The MP begins to want it more than they did before.

 

What’s interesting to note too is how the MP’s ‘view’ of the BS changes during an affair. Suddenly, they become much more critical of everything. They don’t appreciate the things that DID hold them together all those years. Because they’ve stopped ‘investing’ in the marriage, suddenly the things that the BS was doing to ‘invest’ in the marriage no longer have any meaning to the MP anymore. They’re looking at the BS with “affair colored glasses” on. They begin to make comparisons, where before they never did.

 

The same thing happens to their entire view of the marriage too. Suddenly, their version of the marriage changes to something that no one else can recognize. Every negative in the marriage is magnified…every positive is suddenly minimized. While perhaps they’d only been dissatisfied with things for a short time…suddenly, they’ve been “unhappy for years”. They’ve “never loved” the BS. They were “never attracted to the BS”. Which is totally opposite what they’d felt and said just a short time prior to the affair taking place.

 

The bottom line is that the affair DOES affect the marriage. Its impossible for the MP to avoid one relationship impacting on the other, no matter how much they insist that it doesn’t. What they invest in one relationship no longer goes into the other. How they feel for one person automatically impacts how they feel for the other. The claims that the marriage was so bad prior to the affair are typically exaggerations. At first, its because they’re justifying to themselves the ‘reasons’ they’re allowing themselves to pursue the OP. Later, their entire view of the marriage is distorted due to the affair.

 

I’ve seen this happen personally in my wife during her emotional affair. I’ve also watched it happen in others…both in ‘real life’ friends, and in the numerous accounts I’ve seen online.

 

So how can the OP be so positive that what’s going on between them and the MP be totally unrelated to the marriage relationship?

 

Can someone explain to me the OP side of this as clearly as I’ve spelled out what I’ve seen?

 

How do you KNOW that your relationship with MP is not affecting the marriage?

[whichwayisup]

It has to affect the marriage because the marriage and the unknowingly BS is affected by the affair, stolen time and energy being put into someone else. Just like the marriage affects the actual affair. Times that MM/MW has to be at home with the family, holidays, vacations away...

 

Any man or woman who is basically living two lives can't give 100% to each person, so how can that NOT affect each relationship? One has to suffer and ofcourse it's always the betrayed spouse and the marriage.

[imstunned]

You all know that I disnt know I was having an affair with a married man etc - but looking back I would imagine that it must have had some impact on his M. All those nights together, all the 1000's of texts, all the two hour long phone calls.. . .

 

And I know my case is different - but I feel like the only looser.

[Tomcat33]

A lot of times the big gap is there between the two people and this is why the one partner manages to drift off pretty much unnoticed for 3months, 8 months, 2 yrs!

 

Face it, if the marriage was TRULY in good standing and the two people were in tune with one another there is NO way in hell an extended A can take place. Logistically it just can't happen. It consumes too much time and the BS would be on to them like a floor walker to a shoplifter.

 

Does an A prolongue the time the two people could be working on fixing things instead of drifting further? ABSOLUTELY. But that is a choice the cheater makes whith our without their partner in mind. When the gap is there BOTH parties are gulity of letting it get to that point NO EXCUSES.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Tomcat33

[Tomcat33]

Lastly, if takes another person coming to "meddle" between your relationship in order for the BS to have the EURIKA that WOW I am totally interested in my mate afterall, you are in more trouble than you think!

 

How sad that it would take having to almost lose your partner to a new person in order to pay attention to them again, that is the sad truth of what happens POST d-day and why so many BSs have so much misdirected anger predominantly pointing at the OP. BSs should be happy the OPs reminded them their partners were worth waking up for. Let's face it BSs DO wake up after the A.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Tomcat33

[GreenEyedLady]

Of course it affects the M, the MP's energy is put into your R and not his M...I guess you don't understand our viewpoint but we don't understand yours...As if the OP is supposed to abandon their R so MM can live happily ever after with their W? We love our partners, we're not just going to give up if we know he loves us...

 

I guess my point is that if the WS wants to stray and the BS wants to stick their head in the sand, then why is it the OP's responsibility to get another to uphold their M vows?

[Tomcat33]

Of course it affects the M, the MP's energy is put into your R and not his M...I guess you don't understand our viewpoint but we don't understand yours...As if the OP is supposed to abandon their R so MM can live happily ever after with their W? We love our partners, we're not just going to give up if we know he loves us...

 

 

Yeah but I think the point is you shouldn't go down that road period. They were married and we shouldn't be there period.

[GreenEyedLady]

Yeah but I think the point is you shouldn't go down that road period. They were married and we shouldn't be there period.

 

No, the MP shouldn't be there period...

[Tomcat33]

No, the MP shouldn't be there period...

 

 

C'mon you gotta take some responisbility for your part in it too. We shouldn't be there period either. Otherwise you think what you did was fine? It was all the married guy?

[quankanne]

What’s interesting to note too is how the MP’s ‘view’ of the BS changes during an affair. Suddenly, they become much more critical of everything. They don’t appreciate the things that DID hold them together all those years. Because they’ve stopped ‘investing’ in the marriage, suddenly the things that the BS was doing to ‘invest’ in the marriage no longer have any meaning to the MP anymore. They’re looking at the BS with “affair colored glasses” on. They begin to make comparisons, where before they never did.

 

The same thing happens to their entire view of the marriage too. Suddenly, their version of the marriage changes to something that no one else can recognize. Every negative in the marriage is magnified…every positive is suddenly minimized. While perhaps they’d only been dissatisfied with things for a short time…suddenly, they’ve been “unhappy for years”. They’ve “never loved” the BS. They were “never attracted to the BS”. Which is totally opposite what they’d felt and said just a short time prior to the affair taking place.

 

the sweet irony of this is that even though the one having the affair is having these feelings about his or her spouse, that person often refuses to leave the marriage. Thus leaving me to believe that it's less about loving the one he/she is married to and the one he/she is cheating on, and more about putting his/her own needs first. Because the betrayed spouse and the lover are the ones losing out – they're getting half a person, while the betrayer gets both.

[quankanne]

I guess my point is that if the WS wants to stray and the BS wants to stick their head in the sand, then why is it the OP's responsibility to get another to uphold their M vows?

 

the spouse that gets left behind isn't the only one with the head buried in the sand, my dear.

[Tomcat33]

the sweet irony of this is that even though the one having the affair is having these feelings about his or her spouse, that person often refuses to leave the marriage. Thus leaving me to believe that it's less about loving the one he/she is married to and the one he/she is cheating on, and more about putting his/her own needs first. Because the betrayed spouse and the lover are the ones losing out – they're getting half a person, while the betrayer gets both.

 

 

that's a really good point! It think there is still a huge inbalance in favour of the OP because the cheater pretty much checks out of the marriage during the A, so if the OP is not getting 100% and the BS is getting prob less than 10%. which leads me to believe the state of the marriage had to be in pretty rough shape in order for this shift to sustain itself for so long pretty much unhitched and unsuspected by the BS.

[OWoman]

How are you so sure that your relationship with MP isn’t affecting his marriage???

 

If my R with MM actively contributed to the decline of his M, I'd be proud of that fact. His M was abusive - as was stated in MC long before I was on the scene. I think abusive Rs are a violation of human rights and if I could stamp them all out, I would. If I was able to assist with the destruction of even one, I'd be proud of that fact.

 

I suspect though, that MM was checking out of his M for a very long time, which may have been why he said yes when I hit on him having turned down countless offers before. Certainly once he started standing up to the abuse, and protecting himself and the kids from it, his wife went into autodestruct and the writing was on the wall. And I suspect that he stayed longer than he would otherwise because the A and its halo effect diluted the horror of home life, and that that was perhaps not such a good thing as it drew out the horror instead of a clean neat split for the kids too.

 

One of his kids said to him the other day that he couldn't remember when last he'd laughed, until that day (joking around with MM) and that he was glad that he could let himself laugh again, without worrying what crockery was going to go flying against the wall. That fear and pain should have been ended long before, and to the extent that I may have helped do so, I'd be proud. Though I suspect I may in fact have prolonged it.

[Meaplus3]

How are you so sure that your relationship with MP isn’t affecting his marriage???

 

Emotional intimacy is actually a pretty simple concept to understand. Its all about sharing. Sharing feelings, ideas, dreams…talking about daily events, spending time together, etc… It’s the thing you treasure the most about YOUR time with MP, right? Its what led to the two of you being so close...by talking about his marital problems, by sharing ideas and dreams and time...this is what led the two of you to fall in love, right?

 

Physical intimacy works in a very similar fashion. By being physically and sexually with someone, you build bonds. Its ‘investing’. The more you are with that person, the more you WANT to be with that person. The more enjoyable the experience is for both of you, the more you want more.

 

Nothing very amazing about any of that, right?

 

Well, here’s the deal. When MP is doing all that sharing with you, he’s NOT sharing that with his wife. He’s no longer putting any of that investment into his marriage…he’s investing it in his relationship with you, instead.

 

Yes, I know…he’s insisted that they’ve not been ‘in love’ for years. They’re in a ‘sexless marriage’. While it might not be as MUCH as he’d like…he was still investing it in her in some fashion before the affair. He HAD to…it has to go somewhere.

 

So you see, the affair almost immediately starts deteriorating the state of the marriage too. Because now the OP is getting what the BS used to get…even if they didn’t seem to appreciate it (to MP’s eyes). It creates a sense of distance between the two of them that wasn’t nearly that great until the affair started. Often, the BS is “comfortable” with how the marriage is. They don’t realize that their spouse is that unhappy. If they DID realize the extent of it, normally they would start making changes.

 

But when the affair starts, the MP suddenly becomes “cold and distant” to the BS. They stop sharing anything with the BS. It HURTS…it’s a change in the marriage. They don’t talk about those dreams/feelings/daily events…the physical intimacy change can go either way. Either the MP suddenly withdraws in that area too…OR…and this is equally common…the amount and quality of the physical side of the marriage INCREASES. The MP begins to want it more than they did before.

 

What’s interesting to note too is how the MP’s ‘view’ of the BS changes during an affair. Suddenly, they become much more critical of everything. They don’t appreciate the things that DID hold them together all those years. Because they’ve stopped ‘investing’ in the marriage, suddenly the things that the BS was doing to ‘invest’ in the marriage no longer have any meaning to the MP anymore. They’re looking at the BS with “affair colored glasses” on. They begin to make comparisons, where before they never did.

 

The same thing happens to their entire view of the marriage too. Suddenly, their version of the marriage changes to something that no one else can recognize. Every negative in the marriage is magnified…every positive is suddenly minimized. While perhaps they’d only been dissatisfied with things for a short time…suddenly, they’ve been “unhappy for years”. They’ve “never loved” the BS. They were “never attracted to the BS”. Which is totally opposite what they’d felt and said just a short time prior to the affair taking place.

 

The bottom line is that the affair DOES affect the marriage. Its impossible for the MP to avoid one relationship impacting on the other, no matter how much they insist that it doesn’t. What they invest in one relationship no longer goes into the other. How they feel for one person automatically impacts how they feel for the other. The claims that the marriage was so bad prior to the affair are typically exaggerations. At first, its because they’re justifying to themselves the ‘reasons’ they’re allowing themselves to pursue the OP. Later, their entire view of the marriage is distorted due to the affair.

 

I’ve seen this happen personally in my wife during her emotional affair. I’ve also watched it happen in others…both in ‘real life’ friends, and in the numerous accounts I’ve seen online.

 

So how can the OP be so positive that what’s going on between them and the MP be totally unrelated to the marriage relationship?

 

Can someone explain to me the OP side of this as clearly as I’ve spelled out what I’ve seen?

 

How do you KNOW that your relationship with MP is not affecting the marriage?

 

 

How do you KNOW that your relationship with MP is not affecting the marriage?

 

Well my ea did affect my marriage Relationship very sorely. I am pretty certain that it had some what of an inpact on mm's marriage as well. How could it not? Emotional bond's are what people crave the most and when thier is one taking place with another outside the marriage it most certainly will have an affect and not a good one.

 

AP:)

[GreenEyedLady]

C'mon you gotta take some responisbility for your part in it too. We shouldn't be there period either. Otherwise you think what you did was fine? It was all the married guy?

 

You know, mine lied to me and I didn't know for over a year...

 

So I don't feel like I went into it knowing all the facts, or I'd probably feel differently...

[kchiapet95]

I agree that clearly an affair does contribute to the decline of a marriage. As was mentioned before, the time MM spent with me was not spent with his W. However, in my case, they'd been to MC 3 times, they'd separated 3 times...this wasn't a picture perfect marriage. There were definite problems. I'm not saying I'm perfect, sure, clearly, I contributed to someone's pain, I accept my part. But this isn't a movie or a book where there is a clear villain and a hero or heroine. We all...me, MM, his W...had a part in this. (Edited to say, before I get flamed, I mean that obviously his W did not know about our affair, but we all have flaws and issues, and there were problems in the marriage before the affair, a lack of communication...) The problems in their marriage were there way before I entered the picture, and they will continue to be there now that I have left the picture.

 

Before we started dating, I asked MM if he was willing to give his M another try, if he was willing to go to marital counseling or individual counseling. He expressed willingness to go to IC, but he had tried the MC route. In his mind the M was over and he had his reasons for not leaving right away, but he was adamant that at some point he would leave. I guess his W didn't know that though, or she probably would've initiated proceedings.

 

So did it contribute to the decline? Sure, just like working too much, partying too much will. Was it responsible for the decline? No way.

Edited January 2, 2008 by kchiapet95
(none)

[GreenEyedLady]

the spouse that gets left behind isn't the only one with the head buried in the sand, my dear.

 

Funny thing is, not everyone has their eyes shut to reality...Funny thing is, it makes your senses sharper...

[Tomcat33]

You know, mine lied to me and I didn't know for over a year...

 

So I don't feel like I went into it knowing all the facts, or I'd probably feel differently...

 

 

Oh yes yes sorry I forgot about that important detail. My apologies.

[underpants]

If my R with MM actively contributed to the decline of his M, I'd be proud of that fact. His M was abusive - as was stated in MC long before I was on the scene. I think abusive Rs are a violation of human rights and if I could stamp them all out, I would. If I was able to assist with the destruction of even one, I'd be proud of that fact.

 

I agree that abusive relationships are not a healthy situation. However, you don't need to engage in an affair with someone to help them get out of a bad marriage.

 

I wonder if that might be why some of your previous affair spawned relationships didn't work out in the long term. After you saved them and they were not longer wounded from abuse then perhaps you lost interest?

 

Dunno, and I am not judging. I just found it interesting.

[quankanne]

If my R with MM actively contributed to the decline of his M, I'd be proud of that fact. His M was abusive

 

at which point, I'll ask: Have you done anything to encourage him to get the help he needs to get out of the abusive relationship? Because his and his family's safety is top priority in this case; your affair is incidental.

[quankanne]

not everyone has their eyes shut to reality...Funny thing is, it makes your senses sharper

 

the "reality" of what's going on is probably much, much different than what you perceive, because you're looking from a fixed viewpoint, as he is, as his wife is, as his family is.

[OWoman]

I agree that abusive relationships are not a healthy situation. However, you don't need to engage in an affair with someone to help them get out of a bad marriage.

 

No, and nor was that my intention at the time. My intention was to have a brief, passionate affair with a terminally hot man. But things don't always work out as you plan them.

 

I wonder if that might be why some of your previous affair spawned relationships didn't work out in the long term. After you saved them and they were not longer wounded from abuse then perhaps you lost interest?

 

I've not had any previous affair-spawned Rs, nor have I previously been involved (sexually or romantically) with anyone who's had an abusive R or M. I've had a number of As with MM who claimed to be very happily married (though some later admitted it was less than "very happily") and I've had Rs with SGs and I've been married myself. I'm certainly not the "saving" type and any guy who started telling me about his problems would soon find himself elsewhere!

[OWoman]

If my R with MM actively contributed to the decline of his M, I'd be proud of that fact. His M was abusive

 

at which point, I'll ask: Have you done anything to encourage him to get the help he needs to get out of the abusive relationship? Because his and his family's safety is top priority in this case; your affair is incidental.

 

Yes - I was about to say "it's all over bar the shouting" but that's too close to the truth for comfort.

 

I agree that the affair is incidental. Sadly though that's what it took for him to realise just how abusive the M actually was - despite all the counselling, the advice from friends and colleagues, etc. He just had no benchmark for a "normal" relationship to realise that people didn't scream and shout at each other whenever there was a difference of opinion, didn't feel good by belittling others and didn't throw things around or physically attack someone when they got angry, for example. (His parents divorced when he was very young so he only ever saw them apart, not together.)

[Tomcat33]

I agree that the affair is incidental. Sadly though that's what it took for him to realise just how abusive the M actually was - despite all the counselling, the advice from friends and colleagues, etc. He just had no benchmark for a "normal" relationship to realise that people didn't scream and shout at each other whenever there was a difference of opinion, didn't feel good by belittling others and didn't throw things around or physically attack someone when they got angry, for example. (His parents divorced when he was very young so he only ever saw them apart, not together.)

 

 

Those are very interesting points you just made. I would think that people who didn't have a lot of experience with other relationships would be caught in the same boat. How relationships are supposed to be and what is expected of two people in order to make that work is not exactly something we are taught while we are growing up and what we see at home is pretty much the example we have to learn from. Especially for men I would think becase men are less proned to dig around and talk openly with other friends about relationships, women tend to do that more growing up, not so much men.

 

Before someone get's offended by my generalizations they are just THAT, generalizations. k? I was not trying to offend anyone.

 

 

On a side note: Quankanne this is too funny I clicked on your profile for the first time and realised you are a female, all this time I thought you were a guy for some reason...not that it matters but when you see a poster for so long and have that image built up in your mind and then find out the complete opposite it's a bit of a shock. Why do I feel like just ran into you at a club and you are now in drag? :lmao:

I am a space cadette like that, sometimes so don't mind me....

[Owl]

Some interesting responses.

 

I thought it was interesting that many people were commenting that an A had nothing to do with the marriage situation...so I started this thread.

 

Some additional "food for thought".

 

Do you know WHO makes the majority of the changes in a marriage that recovers from an A?

 

INITIALLY...the first 6 months or so...the BS does. Interestingly enough, these are usually transitory changes in expectations while the marriage is recovering. Learning to tolerate some of the withdrawl symptoms that the WS goes through...learning to listen to very painful things without reacting...etc...

 

The LONG term changes are typically made by the WS. Learning to communicate their emotions to the BS...learning how to establish 'boundaries' to protect themselves and their marriage from going through another A...etc...

 

The A is RARELY a 'wake up call' JUST for the BS.

 

I was well aware of the 'issues' in my marriage for the last year prior to my wife's EA. I TRIED to deal and work through them. The problem was...SHE was the one creating them, and SHE was the one who needed to make the change. You can't FORCE anyone to change...it doesn't work. She had to DECIDE to make those changes. I wasn't yet ready to give up 17 years of marriage (at the time)...I was looking for some way for things to get better BEFORE that point was reached.

 

I wasn't sitting there "with my head in the sand".

 

I WILL admit that I didn't believe that she was capable of cheating on me. I honestly figured that she'd divorce me BEFORE she went that kind of route. I was wrong...it was a learning experience.

 

But that 'gap' between us? Not my doing. Resisted all attempts at fixing it that I made. It required action on HER part...changes on HER part.

 

So...something to think about too. When a marriage DOES recover...its not the BS who's making most of those long term changes. There are some made on both ends...but honestly, its the WS who has to make the lion's share of them.

 

The BS rarely is just sitting there blissfully unaware of the problems. Often the issue is...they don't know what else to do to FIX the problems. Or they simply CAN'T because the issues are all in the WS's court to fix...but the BS isn't willing to simply walk away from years of marriage. They're still looking for ways to fix the issues, or hoping that something (not an affair, of course) will change the situation to effect the changes that need to happen.

 

And...expecting ANYONE to be 'thankful' for someone sleeping with their spouse???? You've GOT to be kidding me...