How do you KNOW that your affair isn't contributing to the decline of their marriage?

[Frances]

In some respects I think that having me in his life actually helps sustain his marriage since he doesnt get annoyed or irritable as much about certain things since he has something else in his life that makes him feel alive and in love again. My involvement with him was not planned nor was it something I could ever imagined myself cable of but we became the closest of friends and fell in love. If I could find the strength to sever all ties with him I think he would realize things really havent gotten better at home since he has me, they are just no longer the only thing he has to focus on....

 

 

In the long run the affair will tear the marriage apart. All what Owl says will start to happen in the marriage and he will eventually treat the wife badly. You are contributing to that and do not try to fool yourself that you are sustaining their marriage. You are no different than a thief in the night stealing their property. Leave them to their marriage , find the strength and have your own life.

[whichwayisup]

since he has something else in his life that makes him feel alive and in love again.

 

You should ask him if that new found energy he has for you, which is helping him manage his marriage better day to day, is helping him with his wife in the bedroom. I have read afew threads about this and MM and his wife actually have hotter sex because of the A. Though, sadly his wife isn't privy to the fact that she's being betrayed, let alone know her husband is living a lie, living a double life.

[Lizzie60]

You should ask him if that new found energy he has for you, which is helping him manage his marriage better day to day, is helping him with his wife in the bedroom. I have read afew threads about this and MM and his wife actually have hotter sex because of the A. Though, sadly his wife isn't privy to the fact that she's being betrayed, let alone know her husband is living a lie, living a double life.

 

Yes..WWIU.. this is the downside of hotter sex for the W...

[Tomcat33]

You should ask him if that new found energy he has for you, which is helping him manage his marriage better day to day, is helping him with his wife in the bedroom. I have read afew threads about this and MM and his wife actually have hotter sex because of the A. Though, sadly his wife isn't privy to the fact that she's being betrayed, let alone know her husband is living a lie, living a double life.

 

 

Yup that's does happen, however don't forget that a couple could have very hot sex after watching a woman do a strip show or even after watching a porn so no doubt they will suddenly having mind blowing sex he is fantasizing about the OW. I find that EXTREMELY disturbing.

Which is why I don't get how a BS goes back to making love to their partner knowing they could carry this fantasy in them for quite some time.

[OpenBook]

SHE was the one creating them, and SHE was the one who needed to make the change... It required action on HER part...changes on HER part... When a marriage DOES recover...its not the BS who's making most of those long term changes. There are some made on both ends...but honestly, its the WS who has to make the lion's share of them.

 

Recovering from the affair was horrible. Dealing with it was something I won't do again. Going through her affair and fighting to save my marriage afterwards was the most devestating thing I've been through.

 

So how did you "fight to save your marriage" Owl? By demanding that she be the one to make all the changes?

 

Sorry, but I will never buy this. It takes two to tango in a M.

[OpenBook]

You are no different than a thief in the night stealing their property.

 

Uh, how many thieves in the night do YOU know that have the diamonds and pearls dancing their way out of the jewelry box, floating down the stairs and out the front door, and begging you to take them out for a spin? Sorry, but you're just projecting your own insecurities on the OW and COMPLETELY IGNORING the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the WS is the one actively seeking the A because he just CAN'T STAND it at home anymore.

[Tomcat33]

In the long run the affair will tear the marriage apart. All what Owl says will start to happen in the marriage and he will eventually treat the wife badly. You are contributing to that and do not try to fool yourself that you are sustaining their marriage. You are no different than a thief in the night stealing their property. Leave them to their marriage , find the strength and have your own life.

 

 

The WS is going to treat the BS poorly regardelss because that is the state the relationship is in, but I do agree that the gap seems to broaden during the affair, it cant NOT broaden.

[GreenEyedLady]

Uh, how many thieves in the night do YOU know that have the diamonds and pearls dancing their way out of the jewelry box, floating down the stairs and out the front door, and begging you to take them out for a spin? Sorry, but you're just projecting your own insecurities on the OW and COMPLETELY IGNORING the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the WS is the one actively seeking the A because he just CAN'T STAND it at home anymore.

 

You know what? This is so spot-on! I think some BS's just can't handle the thought their spouse wanted someone other than them and actively pursued the OP...

 

It's much easier to believe he was running around in a fog, than admit he might not be happy and things have to change...

[Mino]

You know what? This is so spot-on! I think some BS's just can't handle the thought their spouse wanted someone other than them and actively pursued the OP...

 

It's much easier to believe he was running around in a fog, than admit he might not be happy and things have to change...

Bingo!!!!! you got the answer right!!

[sarme]

Uh, how many thieves in the night do YOU know that have the diamonds and pearls dancing their way out of the jewelry box, floating down the stairs and out the front door, and begging you to take them out for a spin? Sorry, but you're just projecting your own insecurities on the OW and COMPLETELY IGNORING the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the WS is the one actively seeking the A because he just CAN'T STAND it at home anymore.

 

That's a really good analogy Open Book!

[sarme]

.And even if the the majority of the cases have a WS actively seeking an affair because they can't stand it at home, they should leave home and then seek sex and whatever else. But seeking doesn't mean there should be someone with open arms to help them deal with a mess they helped to create in the first place.

The reality is there always is someone there to transition us out of the pain of the end of a breakup or the end of a relationship or whatever that may be. If people would not be on the sidelines when we leave a relationship, people would a) never leave a relationship b)never get over a lost love. The whole world is filled with people exiting, and ready to enter a romantic connection which is a reality check to a lot of people who go into marriage. You should always take this into account because if you snooze you WILL lose. Even if it is not to an A you will lose if you let yourself go in your relationship. People are looking to find love one way or another and as the saying goes sometimes love knows no bounds. So if you put so much trust in the entire world and let yourself go, you are bound to be dissapointed.

[Virgo1982]

*Affairs are never going to stop.

 

*No one wants anyone spending "quality time" with their mate.

 

*MM will most likely have an affair before they ask for divorce.

 

 

 

Reality is reality. Any one of us can resist as much as we'd like, but reality always smacks us in the face at some point or another.

 

The sting depends on perception.

[GreenEyedLady]

How many people wait until a D is final before they start dating?

 

As soon as I left my H, I was divorced in my heart and I started dating right away...I don't think there's many people who want the D and don't start dating right away...

 

Who waits until the ink is dry? If someone drags it out, it could be years...

[Jezebel]

Two wrongs will never make it right.

[underpants]

How many people wait until a D is final before they start dating?

 

As soon as I left my H, I was divorced in my heart and I started dating right away...I don't think there's many people who want the D and don't start dating right away...

 

Who waits until the ink is dry? If someone drags it out, it could be years...

 

I do know some people who have waited the whole year before dating.

 

You have a point though. In those cases I would say that dating a legally seperated person is still a big risk. Even after a divorce is final often dating is risky for some time. Those situations vary and as long as everyone is upfront and honest with all that are involved then I guess do what you want.

 

The affairs I take issue with are those where one party is being deceived. Affairs where the marriage is still on (no papers filed), and a spouse is not aware. This also includes OP that know their partner is married.

 

If you find out your partner is married then I would advise leaving the relationship. However, that is what I would do. If you carry on then you are a knowing participant in a betrayl and yes, you are contributing to the demise of a marriage. A willing party to the lying, deception and betrayl is just as bad as the actions of the cheating spouse IMHO.

[Virgo1982]

Bingo. Even though I know of at least one( me) who is waiting for the ink to dry, I think there are more than a few people who will wait for the ink to be try to date.

 

It probably depends on how long the M has been over emotionally.

 

Also, I wouldn't want to keep explaining the gray of being legally separated/having the potential mate wondering if I'm going back.

[CallMeCrazy]

You know what? This is so spot-on! I think some BS's just can't handle the thought their spouse wanted someone other than them and actively pursued the OP...

 

It's much easier to believe he was running around in a fog, than admit he might not be happy and things have to change...

 

This was true in my case.... But, to answer OWL, our A did contribute to the demise of MM's R with his W. However, it clearly was damaged long before he met me or he would never have persued me. I agree that it takes 2 to make a marriage work and to allow a marriage to fail...

[bentnotbroken]

It probably depends on how long the M has been over emotionally.

 

Also, I wouldn't want to keep explaining the gray of being legally separated/having the potential mate wondering if I'm going back.

 

 

You know me, Miss Black and White. It doesn't matter to me how long emotionally I am over it, it only matters to me if it is right in the eyes of God.

[OWoman]

If he is o.k. with his actions, then he should tell his wife and let her have the same option of being pleased by someone on the side.

 

Many MM would desperately love their BW to have someone "on the side", with a view to her transitioning out of the M with no pain to themselves (the MM), in my experience. And I had a male friend, who was having an A, suggest that to his W only to have her break the news to him that she had been having an A (for even longer than his) but "the right time" to mention it had just never come up!

[OWoman]

Sorry, but you're just projecting your own insecurities on the OW and COMPLETELY IGNORING the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the WS is the one actively seeking the A because he just CAN'T STAND it at home anymore.

 

Um - am I the only one around here that actively seduced my MM?

 

But to use that - or similar analogy - someone visiting a neighbour left a cheque book and a wallet on the back seat of the car, and left the window open when they went inside to visit. Surprise surprise it was missing when they came back. The police refused to open a case - there was no sign of breaking and entering - and gave the visitor a talking to about being so negligent and encouraging theft.

 

I guess if you're going to view your spouse as your "possession" that can be "stolen" then you're going to have to ensure you're not similarly negligent, leaving him / her unguarded next to unsecured access in full view of passing "thieves"....

 

(Of course, if you credit them with free will, it's a different story!)

[Virgo1982]

You know me, Miss Black and White. It doesn't matter to me how long emotionally I am over it, it only matters to me if it is right in the eyes of God.

 

Sounds good to me! I just know me realistically-Sorry God.

[nextel]

How are you so sure that your relationship with MP isn’t affecting his marriage???

 

Emotional intimacy is actually a pretty simple concept to understand. Its all about sharing. Sharing feelings, ideas, dreams…talking about daily events, spending time together, etc… It’s the thing you treasure the most about YOUR time with MP, right? Its what led to the two of you being so close...by talking about his marital problems, by sharing ideas and dreams and time...this is what led the two of you to fall in love, right?

 

Physical intimacy works in a very similar fashion. By being physically and sexually with someone, you build bonds. Its ‘investing’. The more you are with that person, the more you WANT to be with that person. The more enjoyable the experience is for both of you, the more you want more.

 

Nothing very amazing about any of that, right?

 

Well, here’s the deal. When MP is doing all that sharing with you, he’s NOT sharing that with his wife. He’s no longer putting any of that investment into his marriage…he’s investing it in his relationship with you, instead.

 

Yes, I know…he’s insisted that they’ve not been ‘in love’ for years. They’re in a ‘sexless marriage’. While it might not be as MUCH as he’d like…he was still investing it in her in some fashion before the affair. He HAD to…it has to go somewhere.

 

So you see, the affair almost immediately starts deteriorating the state of the marriage too. Because now the OP is getting what the BS used to get…even if they didn’t seem to appreciate it (to MP’s eyes). It creates a sense of distance between the two of them that wasn’t nearly that great until the affair started. Often, the BS is “comfortable” with how the marriage is. They don’t realize that their spouse is that unhappy. If they DID realize the extent of it, normally they would start making changes.

 

But when the affair starts, the MP suddenly becomes “cold and distant” to the BS. They stop sharing anything with the BS. It HURTS…it’s a change in the marriage. They don’t talk about those dreams/feelings/daily events…the physical intimacy change can go either way. Either the MP suddenly withdraws in that area too…OR…and this is equally common…the amount and quality of the physical side of the marriage INCREASES. The MP begins to want it more than they did before.

 

What’s interesting to note too is how the MP’s ‘view’ of the BS changes during an affair. Suddenly, they become much more critical of everything. They don’t appreciate the things that DID hold them together all those years. Because they’ve stopped ‘investing’ in the marriage, suddenly the things that the BS was doing to ‘invest’ in the marriage no longer have any meaning to the MP anymore. They’re looking at the BS with “affair colored glasses” on. They begin to make comparisons, where before they never did.

 

The same thing happens to their entire view of the marriage too. Suddenly, their version of the marriage changes to something that no one else can recognize. Every negative in the marriage is magnified…every positive is suddenly minimized. While perhaps they’d only been dissatisfied with things for a short time…suddenly, they’ve been “unhappy for years”. They’ve “never loved” the BS. They were “never attracted to the BS”. Which is totally opposite what they’d felt and said just a short time prior to the affair taking place.

 

The bottom line is that the affair DOES affect the marriage. Its impossible for the MP to avoid one relationship impacting on the other, no matter how much they insist that it doesn’t. What they invest in one relationship no longer goes into the other. How they feel for one person automatically impacts how they feel for the other. The claims that the marriage was so bad prior to the affair are typically exaggerations. At first, its because they’re justifying to themselves the ‘reasons’ they’re allowing themselves to pursue the OP. Later, their entire view of the marriage is distorted due to the affair.

 

I’ve seen this happen personally in my wife during her emotional affair. I’ve also watched it happen in others…both in ‘real life’ friends, and in the numerous accounts I’ve seen online.

 

So how can the OP be so positive that what’s going on between them and the MP be totally unrelated to the marriage relationship?

 

Can someone explain to me the OP side of this as clearly as I’ve spelled out what I’ve seen?

 

How do you KNOW that your relationship with MP is not affecting the marriage?

 

 

 

I knew MM for many years before he got married. I was also aware of his life to some extent. His marriage was in trouble before we ever got together. Certainly, things have gotten worse in the sense that he does not hide the fact that he is having an affair from his W.

 

My R with MM might be contributing in the sense that I am the one that he is sleeping with nights after nights, and refuses to stay married to W, but I certainly did not contribute to the breakdown of their R. They each did that to themselves.

[justice]

Here here...I have a stat too:

 

90% of BSs that stay in a marriage after they have been cheated on suffer fear of being alone and extreme neediness.

 

I agree... they sometimes think about taking the cheater back or go right ahead and take him back... just in case he's changed...

 

Does say a lot about the BS... about the neediness... the emotional dependance...

 

Guess I'm the other ten percent then. I never suffered from fear of being alone, nor of neediness. I left, I divorced and I'm not needy nor am I afraid. In my opinion, OP's do contribute to the demise of a marriage, especially those who will keep on after it long after the cheating mate has asked them repeatedly to stay away. How is it, that an ow or om does not affect a marriage? Not very often I'd dare say. There should only be two people in the marriage, the husband and the wife, not the husband and the wife and the OP. My marriage was a good one before the OW came along, even my ex agrees that it was, that's why he still persues me and tries to get me to come back. Like that's ever gonna happen.

Edited January 3, 2008 by justice

[luvmy2ns]

Uh, how many thieves in the night do YOU know that have the diamonds and pearls dancing their way out of the jewelry box, floating down the stairs and out the front door, and begging you to take them out for a spin? Sorry, but you're just projecting your own insecurities on the OW and COMPLETELY IGNORING the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the WS is the one actively seeking the A because he just CAN'T STAND it at home anymore.

 

Haha! In MOST cases, the WS is actively seeking the A because he/she is selfish and self serving and doesn't give a good GD who gets hurt while they do what they do. It's as simple as that.

[Owl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owl

SHE was the one creating them, and SHE was the one who needed to make the change... It required action on HER part...changes on HER part... When a marriage DOES recover...its not the BS who's making most of those long term changes. There are some made on both ends...but honestly, its the WS who has to make the lion's share of them.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owl

Recovering from the affair was horrible. Dealing with it was something I won't do again. Going through her affair and fighting to save my marriage afterwards was the most devestating thing I've been through.

 

So how did you "fight to save your marriage" Owl? By demanding that she be the one to make all the changes?

 

Sorry, but I will never buy this. It takes two to tango in a M.

 

I fought for my marriage by showing her that I loved her. By showing her that I was still the same husband I'd been all those years...that had been part of a really awesome marriage for all but that last year.

 

That last year was when things went to h3!!. It was when she basically quit her job (she had a job, broke her leg, but refused to go back after she'd healed). She became addicted to online gaming. Stopped taking care of the house, stopped putting any effort at all into our marriage or our family. She'd spend 16+ hours/day on the computer. We fought constantly over these changes. (A large part of the problem was that she was also dealing with untreated depression...which I tried repeatedly to get her to see a doctor to treat)

 

This obviously all got much worse when she began her EA.

 

My "fight to save my marriage"? I had to show her that I was still the man she'd loved all those years. I setup some very serious boundaries about what I'd accept in a relationship of any kind with her. I made it clear that if she left to live with OM...it was OVER. No, I wouldn't be in her life in ANY fashion. I'd not be her friend, I'd not be there for her for ANYTHING...ever. I made it clear that she was destroying not only our marriage...but our friendship...and our family.

 

When she DIDN'T go to be with OM...I helped nurse her through her withdrawl at the end of her affair with him. I sat and listened and tried to understand and see things through HER eyes...without passing judgements and without letting the pain of what she was saying and doing reflect back on her.

 

I showed her I still loved her. I made it clear that things COULD be better. You see, she had to see that FIRST from me. It wasn't easy...I had to put all of MY hurt, all the devestation I'd felt as a result of her affair on the back burner...for months.

 

Long term changes? I made very few. Quite bluntly, I've always been a terrific husband and father. It was the changes that SHE had made over that past year that needed to be undone. AND...she needed to learn how to set boundaries so that she stopped ALLOWING the situations that encouraged cheating behavior to occur. Sharing personal feelings and information with male friends...spending more time with me, and with the family instead of doing her online thing by herself. Being ACCOUNTABLE...TO EACH OTHER (yes, that means I'm also accountable to her...never had an issue with that).

 

We went to MC for about a year after d-day. For the first six months, she insisted that it was "all Owl's fault"...but could never show CONCRETE examples of what I needed to change. With one exception...I needed to sit back and let her fight her own battles with our kids, rather than step in and try to solve the problem. That was IT. BTW...we had an AWESOME counselor...he was GREAT for listening to both sides without judgement. She LOVED how he handled things between us, and helped both of us to see 'the other side'.

 

I agree...it takes two to tango in a marriage. But it only takes ONE to screw it up. When ONE person becomes selfish to the point where it dominates the marriage...it easily sets the stage for an affair to happen.

 

So there ya go. Hope that clears things up a bit for you.