How do you KNOW that your affair isn't contributing to the decline of their marriage?

[luvmy2ns]

Some beg because they don't want to be left out on the street they want to do it when the air is calm, not under pressure. That is what mine did he didn't beg but he agreed to work on salvaging the marriage (lied yet again) and didn't want to leave the house (selfish) because she found out about us and was kicking him out (which she should) but eventually he was out of there when he was ready to move out and do things on his terms, (pussy) not under the force of getting kicked out in anger because he cheated (which is what he deserved). He wanted to smooth the waters with her as well and not part on such angry terms We have been together since and it is what he has always said to me "I wanted out all along, it just so happened I met you and I fell so hard for you and it complicated things even more, but I had been wanting out for a long time"

 

Wow. Quite the great guy.

[sarme]

I must admit I don't think a cheating partner should get to set the terms at which they leave a house. If they are kicked out, they shouldn't slimmy their way into getting back with a spouse just so they can walk out later on their own terms. If you wanted to leave, and you've been kicked out, stay out.

 

Smoothing the waters for me at least would have required memory dust and a lobotomy. But that's just me. If a spouse means so little that you have to cheat, but want to leave on some imaginable term of sweetness and light, I think that's just bull crap. Sounds like a controlling narcissistic....you know b hole.

 

The point was that he wanted to part on somewhat amicable terms rather than in the heat of the discovery. She is a very insecure woman who suffers from abandonment issues and had a very poor relationship with her family and she was latching on to him for all the wrong reasons, her extreme need to have him there but also incapable of giving much in terms of emotion/intimacy/communication (he says to me I cannot remember the last time she and I had laughed together the way you and I do) was what made him want to run for the hills even more. They have had many years of problems pretty much starting after they married. They had to go to therapy in order to deal with this, he has been wanting to end it for a while but she did not and would not get it. She would not accept it and wanted to hold on to him for all the wrong reasons. She is very career driven but deprived of emotional intelligence. So he went back to help her cope with the transition of the end since he felt guilty for falling in love with me before he managed to get out. It was not a mean spirited attempt to make things worse it was a way to make it easier on everyone because he still cares for her as a person even though he did not wish to form a life with her anymore. Let's face it some marriages are mistakes. Why live your life next to someone that is going to bring you down, that's not what love is meant to do. And let me tell you this woman is a total downer

[underpants]

Smoothing the waters for me at least would have required memory dust and a lobotomy. But that's just me. If a spouse means so little that you have to cheat, but want to leave on some imaginable term of sweetness and light, I think that's just bull crap. Sounds like a controlling narcissistic....you know b hole.

 

 

That is hilarious.

 

They should put that is an affair survival kit.

 

The rest. I agree. The whole adultry cheating thing just reeks of insane and unhealthy selfishness. For the most part all parties wind up very hurt and damaged. Even if the OP gets the cheating partner in the end there is the self knowledge that the relationship was built on a foundation of betrayl. That is a big reason why I think that most (whatever percent) don't last for very long.

 

You can escape a marriage, family responsibility, move, but you can never really escape yourself.

[sarme]

Wow. Quite the great guy.

 

In fact he is a great guy, and I feel so immensely blessed to have found him our paths were meant to cross and I have no doubt we were meant to be. And I certainly don't need to justify it to you or anyone because in my eyes and his we are exactly what we want from each other. If he proves to me that he is a good solid man, that is all I can go on. Whatever happend with his ex is with his ex and I am not her, we are worlds apart. I will have my own set of problems with my man but I can assure you the kinds of things that happened to them in their marriage will not happen to us, for starers I don't close up and throw myself in to work when I have a problem I communicate and get to the bottom of things and that was the one major things that was lacking in his las marriage. We have both determined that communication breeds honesty and love, bottom line. Not to mention we are super attracted to one another, in their relationship it was more one sided she was more into him and he her. I don't think that makes for a good comibination when the woman is more sexually attracted to the man than the man is.

[sarme]

They had to go to therapy in order to deal with this, he has been wanting to end it for a while but she did not and would not get it. She would not accept it and wanted to hold on to him for all the wrong reasons.

 

By the way in addition to this, the therapy consisted of four sessions because he was not into trying to save the marriage he just refused to go because he really did not want to fight for it, but they used the sessions to ease her into the idea the marriage had to end. She did not want to let go. As a lot of desperate women with low self esteem can't let go when being told this is not working anymore and I want out, I care about you but I can't do this anymore.

[bentnotbroken]

By the way in addition to this, the therapy consisted of four sessions because he was not into trying to save the marriage he just refused to go because he really did not want to fight for it, but they used the sessions to ease her into the idea the marriage had to end. She did not want to let go. As a lot of desperate women with low self esteem can't let go when being told this is not working anymore and I want out, I care about you but I can't do this anymore.

 

 

How kind of him to just go to counseling for her. What a great guy.

[sarme]

Well, in his previous marriage communication breed lies and deceit, but if you think it will bring something different(honesty) with the same man...well:confused:

 

He is an open communicator he wears his heart on his sleeve, and needs to talk about his feelings she was the complete opposite she would shut down and shut him out and this would go on for extended periods of time creating even more of a gap between them, so yes I am confident we are better matched in this respect since we both want the same level of connection form one another. I mean he couldn't even talk to her about sex because she did not want to talk about these kinds of things, not being able to talk about your sex life is a huge indicator that you have some deep issues with communication because talking about sex is hard in terms of exchanging what your needs are, if you can't share your needs in terms of what you are like in an intimate sense what hope can there be for the big picture in life. As I said I am sure we have our own share of unique problems to our dynamic but lack of communication is not one of them. For starters he is always letting me know where he is what he is doing and we talk a lot about everything almost too much I don't have to chase down after him, something that did not happen to him with his ex, she never asked he got used to never telling and there they went off in their seperate little lives. That won't happen to us I won't allow that. I know how I am and that would never ever fly in my household.

[Lizzie60]

How kind of him to just go to counseling for her. What a great guy.

 

and some even go to counselling to make their partner believe that they are trying to solve their problems... when in fact, they're just waiting for the dust to fall down so they can stray again...

[sarme]

How kind of him to just go to counseling for her. What a great guy.

 

He did it for himself, he needed help getting through to her he wanted out since due to her abandonment issues she refused to let go. He is a great guy a crappy guy would say "deal with it you are a grown woman I am out of here" he didn't he helped her understand why the relatinship had to end. It wasn't easy for him but in his heart he knew he had to move on. Life doesn't always pan out as we expect it to. I think that is a lot more admirable than those wayward spouses that beg to come back home fully knowing nothing will change just so that they can milk the comfort of the roof and instant family for a little longer. At least this man stood up for what he believed, if it's not working it isn't. And because you never really know why a man begs to come home after he cheats, once you have proven he is capable of back stabbing you like that you would be a fool to think he is going to be honest with you again. The dynmic you already have has lead to the affair weather it was his own doing or both your doing he did it, so why chance on him doing it again? if the problem is mutual he will probably do it again, if the problem is personat, ie. his, he might do it again as well so why do that to yourself? Personally if a person slaps me in the face I don't stick my face out to them again inviting them to slap me again, the pain of the first slap is vivid enough to know I never want to feel that again. and I could love that person very much with all my heart and being but the bottom line is I love myself more.

[jj2007]

He is an open communicator he wears his heart on his sleeve, and needs to talk about his feelings she was the complete opposite she would shut down and shut him out and this would go on for extended periods of time creating even more of a gap between them, so yes I am confident we are better matched in this respect since we both want the same level of connection form one another. I mean he couldn't even talk to her about sex because she did not want to talk about these kinds of things, not being able to talk about your sex life is a huge indicator that you have some deep issues with communication because talking about sex is hard in terms of exchanging what your needs are, if you can't share your needs in terms of what you are like in an intimate sense what hope can there be for the big picture in life. As I said I am sure we have our own share of unique problems to our dynamic but lack of communication is not one of them. For starters he is always letting me know where he is what he is doing and we talk a lot about everything almost too much I don't have to chase down after him, something that did not happen to him with his ex, she never asked he got used to never telling and there they went off in their seperate little lives. That won't happen to us I won't allow that. I know how I am and that would never ever fly in my household.

 

Well, I wish you the best of luck. IMO, you're going to need it. Just remember, if he was willing to cheat with you, there is always the chance he could cheat on you so be careful.

[bentnotbroken]

and some even go to counselling to make their partner believe that they are trying to solve their problems... when in fact, they're just waiting for the dust to fall down so they can stray again...

 

As Mr. Messy Pants did before he was busted.

[bentnotbroken]

He did it for himself, he needed help getting through to her he wanted out since due to her abandonment issues she refused to let go. He is a great guy a crappy guy would say "deal with it you are a grown woman I am out of here" he didn't he helped her understand why the relatinship had to end. It wasn't easy for him but in his heart he knew he had to move on. Life doesn't always pan out as we expect it to. I think that is a lot more admirable than those wayward spouses that beg to come back home fully knowing nothing will change just so that they can milk the comfort of the roof and instant family for a little longer. At least this man stood up for what he believed, if it's not working it isn't. And because you never really know why a man begs to come home after he cheats, once you have proven he is capable of back stabbing you like that you would be a fool to think he is going to be honest with you again. The dynmic you already have has lead to the affair weather it was his own doing or both your doing he did it, so why chance on him doing it again? if the problem is mutual he will probably do it again, if the problem is personat, ie. his, he might do it again as well so why do that to yourself? Personally if a person slaps me in the face I don't stick my face out to them again inviting them to slap me again, the pain of the first slap is vivid enough to know I never want to feel that again. and I could love that person very much with all my heart and being but the bottom line is I love myself more.

 

Interesting, Hmmmm:confused:

[sarme]

and some even go to counselling to make their partner believe that they are trying to solve their problems... when in fact, they're just waiting for the dust to fall down so they can stray again...

 

yup! In fact when mine first went to councelling with her she was under the idea they were going to save the marriage, yet he was going with the pure intent of making her realise he wanted out. He figured that in having a third neutral party explain to her there was no point fighting for a relationship that does not want to be saved by both parties it might make her see that he really wanted out. Because the thing was that when she found out about us her immediate reaction was "don't worry if you fell out of love with me and now you say you love this other woman, in time you will grow to love me again" the thing is she did not get it, she didn't get he didn't want that he had given all he could and had nothing more to give to that relationship. I feel sorry for him how do you make a person understand you want out and yet they guilt trip you into staying with them and use the guilt card to manipulate you to stay because you have some deep seated issues from childhood. That's not fair and that is not love. Love does not manipulate or coerce another human being to be with them, and he had enough. And for the record they both had their faults in the marriage I know of his faults too it was not one sided at all.

[bentnotbroken]

You know of the faults that he wants you to know about. Just like his wife, you will find out about some of them after his guard has been completely let down,and then you still may not get it all.

[sarme]

Well, I wish you the best of luck. IMO, you're going to need it. Just remember, if he was willing to cheat with you, there is always the chance he could cheat on you so be careful.

 

No, look if a man is going to cheat he will cheat regardless there are these women here who married pefectly honourable men to form a family and life together only to be stabbed in the back and cheated on and now are here sharing their sad stories of consequences of what their men did to them and these women had no idea their men were even capable of this. Every relationship is a risk and it can happen to the best of us, of course if you engage in a relationship with someone that is a serial cheater the odds are greatly against you and you really are taking fate into your own hands. My man is not a cheater by nature I trust that I believe that he is a man who felt trapped in a marriage that was not right for him, on the one hand he loved this woman like a sister in that he felt for her and wanted so much to help her but on the other he felt like he was trapped with someone that was just not up to par with what he needed to be happy romantically, we meet and it is instant chemistry connection unlike anything he or I have even felt before, we understand one another on a level we can't even explain, how could he not want to look at his already very gloomy situation and want to reassess his life and and his future in order to attempt a go at finding true happiness, it is inevitable. And if this is how he feels with me some day down the line I would encourage him to do the same, hopefully I won't have to find out in the way of him cheating on me because if he were unhappy I would let go before it got to that since I would not want to know I have someone by my side who is not happy and would rather be elsewhere. But that is just me.

[sarme]

You know of the faults that he wants you to know about. Just like his wife, you will find out about some of them after his guard has been completely let down,and then you still may not get it all.

 

Well that is what getting to know one another is for, and I am no absolute hurry to rush into making any major plans until I feel we are where we should be in terms of trust and friendship and all the things you need to form a solid life partnership. So far it has been amazing with the exclusion of the aftermath of this D and the actual problems while we were in the affair, since he D we made it a pact to start fresh and to start from square one and I do feel more and more in love with him each day. We are head over heels for each other, and the therapy helps us understand what happened to us in ways we never thought we could understand and it really feels like we are doing everything in our power to succeed, we both want to succeed. That's all a person can really hope for, to be on the same page as your partner and to feel the same level of intense passion for one another, that really makes for an outstanding combination and when this happens it feels like you can move mountains, it's exciting and it's new and it sure beats having to reconstruct an old tired relationship with someone you are not sure you can even call your friend anymore let alone your lover, as some BSs chose to do.

[jj2007]

No, look if a man is going to cheat he will cheat regardless there are these women here who married pefectly honourable men to form a family and life together only to be stabbed in the back and cheated on and now are here sharing their sad stories of consequences of what their men did to them and these women had no idea their men were even capable of this. Every relationship is a risk and it can happen to the best of us, of course if you engage in a relationship with someone that is a serial cheater the odds are greatly against you and you really are taking fate into your own hands. My man is not a cheater by nature I trust that I believe that he is a man who felt trapped in a marriage that was not right for him, on the one hand he loved this woman like a sister in that he felt for her and wanted so much to help her but on the other he felt like he was trapped with someone that was just not up to par with what he needed to be happy romantically, we meet and it is instant chemistry connection unlike anything he or I have even felt before, we understand one another on a level we can't even explain, how could he not want to look at his already very gloomy situation and want to reassess his life and and his future in order to attempt a go at finding true happiness, it is inevitable. And if this is how he feels with me some day down the line I would encourage him to do the same, hopefully I won't have to find out in the way of him cheating on me because if he were unhappy I would let go before it got to that since I would not want to know I have someone by my side who is not happy and would rather be elsewhere. But that is just me.

 

Like I said, good luck. The man cheated with you so there is a chance he can cheat on you. Just like with my H. He has cheated so I know there is a possibility it could happen again. If it does I am gone. That is just reality.

[sarme]

Like I said, good luck. The man cheated with you so there is a chance he can cheat on you. Just like with my H. He has cheated so I know there is a possibility it could happen again. If it does I am gone. That is just reality.

 

Well you see unlike you I don't believe in luck, I make my own "luck" If he cheats it's not luck it's a decision and have no power over that, but because I control my own destiny he knows there is no second chances with me there is no "let's go to to therapy don't worry I know you can grow to love me again" we have discussed this openly and intensely that there is no turning back, if he does that it means he is terminating the relationship and I will not back down from that decision. When you are with someone you say to love that to me already is the second and last chance, if you go into it with any other attitude you are welcoming your own "luck"

[Owl]

Well that is what getting to know one another is for, and I am no absolute hurry to rush into making any major plans until I feel we are where we should be in terms of trust and friendship and all the things you need to form a solid life partnership. So far it has been amazing with the exclusion of the aftermath of this D and the actual problems while we were in the affair, since he D we made it a pact to start fresh and to start from square one and I do feel more and more in love with him each day. We are head over heels for each other, and the therapy helps us understand what happened to us in ways we never thought we could understand and it really feels like we are doing everything in our power to succeed, we both want to succeed. That's all a person can really hope for, to be on the same page as your partner and to feel the same level of intense passion for one another, that really makes for an outstanding combination and when this happens it feels like you can move mountains, it's exciting and it's new and it sure beats having to reconstruct an old tired relationship with someone you are not sure you can even call your friend anymore let alone your lover, as some BSs chose to do.

 

I'm sure many BS's felt that way about their spouse when they first married too.

 

I also wonder what 'might have happened' if he had put as much effort into his marriage as he apparently has put into the affair.

 

Also I'd like to add...I had the same thoughts on cheating as you did...PRIOR TO MY WIFE's AFFAIR. I always figured I'd be gone so fast that there would be a hole in the air where I'd been standing.

 

From what I've read, pretty much every BS I've ever met says they felt the same way too...until confronted with that actual situation.

 

You don't know what you're going to do until you get there. Don't think that the BS is so pathetic for fighting to save the marriage until you've been in that situation yourself. Given what he's done with his current wife, I fear you may find yourself in that situation someday as well. Since he HAS cheated once, the 'odds' are much higher he'll do it again.

[jj2007]

I'm sure many BS's felt that way about their spouse when they first married too.

 

I also wonder what 'might have happened' if he had put as much effort into his marriage as he apparently has put into the affair.

 

Also I'd like to add...I had the same thoughts on cheating as you did...PRIOR TO MY WIFE's AFFAIR. I always figured I'd be gone so fast that there would be a hole in the air where I'd been standing.

 

From what I've read, pretty much every BS I've ever met says they felt the same way too...until confronted with that actual situation.

 

You don't know what you're going to do until you get there. Don't think that the BS is so pathetic for fighting to save the marriage until you've been in that situation yourself. Given what he's done with his current wife, I fear you may find yourself in that situation someday as well. Since he HAS cheated once, the 'odds' are much higher he'll do it again.

 

I agree. Very well put!

[sarme]

I'm sure many BS's felt that way about their spouse when they first married too.

 

I also wonder what 'might have happened' if he had put as much effort into his marriage as he apparently has put into the affair.

 

Also I'd like to add...I had the same thoughts on cheating as you did...PRIOR TO MY WIFE's AFFAIR. I always figured I'd be gone so fast that there would be a hole in the air where I'd been standing.

 

From what I've read, pretty much every BS I've ever met says they felt the same way too...until confronted with that actual situation.

 

You don't know what you're going to do until you get there. Don't think that the BS is so pathetic for fighting to save the marriage until you've been in that situation yourself. Given what he's done with his current wife, I fear you may find yourself in that situation someday as well. Since he HAS cheated once, the 'odds' are much higher he'll do it again.

 

If the odds are so high that once a cheater always a cheater then why take that risk with your wife OWL? and you already have the proof she can and will cheat on you, but I don't have the proof my guy will do it to me because he has never cheated on me or on any other woman in his past, I spoke to one exgirlfriend of his during his D because she is a friend and she was shocked he cheated on his W because she has known him for a very long time and knows it is completely out of character for him, at least it was when they were together.And how do you know I haven't been in your shoes and I speak from experience? I would not be saying the things I am saying if I didn't know myself inside out. So please spare me the amateur assesments. You may have thought like this before you were cheated on but you obvioulsy did not believe it in your heart. Power of conviction to the self is key here. We can "think" a lot of things but we need to be convinced of them as well. A personal philosophy is a thought, but a way of living is a completely different story. For the record and even if I didn't have this experience I know I will never ever cut my leg off because I want to avoid pain as much as possible but on the same token I go skiing a lot even though I run the risk that I could lose a leg in a bad downhill accident and the pain would be just as traumatic and painful. In both scenarios I could lose a leg but I have the certainty that I will not do one of them no matter what. Power of conviction is what it boils down to and knowing what is risky vs what is downright stupid.

[sarme]

Also I'd like to add...I had the same thoughts on cheating as you did...PRIOR TO MY WIFE's AFFAIR. I always figured I'd be gone so fast that there would be a hole in the air where I'd been standing

Everybody thinks; that way and goes into marriage thinking that way OWL it is not exclusive to BSs otherwise people would not marry or they would be swingers. The question is you can think that way all you want but are you conviced of the whys you think that way are you aware of the weight you would place on the decision if faced with it and how serious are you in following through with the outcome if faced with having to make that decision? As a concept, yeah great everyone thinks like that - if you cheat I go - and then the thought passes.... but as a hardcore belief willing to let go no matter what to achieve that level of stance is a totally different story. I am willing to give up what it takes to achieve my level of stance and I am not afraid to walk away leaving behind a whole life to fight for what I believe in, I know because I have desmonstrated this in other aspects of my life. And that is very telling to me and to how I face things.</p>

[jj2007]

he has never cheated on me or on any other woman in his past,

 

I spoke to one exgirlfriend of his during his D because she is a friend and she was shocked he cheated on his W

 

Do you not see the contradiction here?

 

I was just letting you know you need to keep your eyes open and be aware.

 

I don't think once a cheater always a cheater but if ANYONE has cheated once, they could be capable of doing it again.

 

I sincerely hope you don't have to find that out the hard way.

[Owl]

You raise a good point. What's the difference between me trusting my wife, and you trusting your MM?

 

My wife has taken responsibility and ownership of her affair. She recognizes that it was entirely her choice to cheat...she regrets it, she regrets the damage it has done to everyone involved (me, her, our kids, and even OM), and she's put a lot of effort into learning how to make changes in herself to ensure that it will never happen again. She's made tremendous changes in her attitudes and behaviors that led to herself being in a situation where she could cheat. Basically...she learned from her foolish mistake. She suffered from what she went through.

 

Your MM has NOT taken responsibility (that I can tell by your posts at least) for his cheating. He rationalizes it and justifies it by blaming the entire marital situation on his wife. He takes no ownership or responsibility for going outside of his marriage. He suffers some consequences for his actions...but for the most part it sounds like you consider him a martyr...so he BENIFITS from his affair in that respect.

 

He'll walk away from this marriage feeling that he got exactly what he wanted. Out, and in a brand new relationship with you. There's nothing to stop him from doing the same thing to you when the "in love" wears off and your relationship is now struggling with the transition to the "long-term love" stage. It'll be even easier for him to justify and rationalize again.

 

The bottom line? He is "getting away with it". My wife "learned from it".

 

You asked for my "amatuer assessments" by requesting me to respond with the difference here. I'll stop posting to you if that's your preference.

 

As far as the "power of conviction"...trust me, I thoroughly believed that I would just walk away. Again...you don't know til you've been there. As I've said...its one of the most common things that many BS's learn about themselves when they ARE in that situation.

 

And how do you know I haven't been in your shoes and I speak from experience?

 

Let me ask...so HAVE you been in a long term marriage and cheated on by your spouse?

[bentnotbroken]

You raise a good point. What's the difference between me trusting my wife, and you trusting your MM?

 

My wife has taken responsibility and ownership of her affair. She recognizes that it was entirely her choice to cheat...she regrets it, she regrets the damage it has done to everyone involved (me, her, our kids, and even OM), and she's put a lot of effort into learning how to make changes in herself to ensure that it will never happen again. She's made tremendous changes in her attitudes and behaviors that led to herself being in a situation where she could cheat. Basically...she learned from her foolish mistake. She suffered from what she went through.

 

Your MM has NOT taken responsibility (that I can tell by your posts at least) for his cheating. He rationalizes it and justifies it by blaming the entire marital situation on his wife. He takes no ownership or responsibility for going outside of his marriage. He suffers some consequences for his actions...but for the most part it sounds like you consider him a martyr...so he BENIFITS from his affair in that respect.

 

He'll walk away from this marriage feeling that he got exactly what he wanted. Out, and in a brand new relationship with you. There's nothing to stop him from doing the same thing to you when the "in love" wears off and your relationship is now struggling with the transition to the "long-term love" stage. It'll be even easier for him to justify and rationalize again.

 

The bottom line? He is "getting away with it". My wife "learned from it".

 

You asked for my "amatuer assessments" by requesting me to respond with the difference here. I'll stop posting to you if that's your preference.

 

As far as the "power of conviction"...trust me, I thoroughly believed that I would just walk away. Again...you don't know til you've been there. As I've said...its one of the most common things that many BS's learn about themselves when they ARE in that situation.

 

 

 

Let me ask...so HAVE you been in a long term marriage and cheated on by your spouse?

 

 

 

The power of conviction is why some of us chose not to cheat and to remain faithful. I guess your convictions are all about what is feeling good and right to you. I see it as justification, but you know the whole black and white thing. I think Owl makes excellent points about the choices of the mm who never cheated before, because it is completely out of character. There are things that are never a part of our character so the thought doesn't occur to do them no matter what the situation.

 

 

I am curious to whether or not you have ever been in a long term marriage myself.