How do you KNOW that your affair isn't contributing to the decline of their marriage?

[sarme]

You raise a good point. What's the difference between me trusting my wife, and you trusting your MM?

 

My wife has taken responsibility and ownership of her affair. She recognizes that it was entirely her choice to cheat...she regrets it, she regrets the damage it has done to everyone involved (me, her, our kids, and even OM), and she's put a lot of effort into learning how to make changes in herself to ensure that it will never happen again. She's made tremendous changes in her attitudes and behaviors that led to herself being in a situation where she could cheat. Basically...she learned from her foolish mistake. She suffered from what she went through.

 

Your MM has NOT taken responsibility (that I can tell by your posts at least) for his cheating. He rationalizes it and justifies it by blaming the entire marital situation on his wife. He takes no ownership or responsibility for going outside of his marriage. He suffers some consequences for his actions...but for the most part it sounds like you consider him a martyr...so he BENIFITS from his affair in that respect.

 

He'll walk away from this marriage feeling that he got exactly what he wanted. Out, and in a brand new relationship with you. There's nothing to stop him from doing the same thing to you when the "in love" wears off and your relationship is now struggling with the transition to the "long-term love" stage. It'll be even easier for him to justify and rationalize again.

 

The bottom line? He is "getting away with it". My wife "learned from it".

 

You asked for my "amatuer assessments" by requesting me to respond with the difference here. I'll stop posting to you if that's your preference.

 

As far as the "power of conviction"...trust me, I thoroughly believed that I would just walk away. Again...you don't know til you've been there. As I've said...its one of the most common things that many BS's learn about themselves when they ARE in that situation.

 

 

 

Let me ask...so HAVE you been in a long term marriage and cheated on by your spouse?

 

First of all he is not my "MM man" he is divroced and he is my boyfriend, second of all he did not cheat on me your wife did cheat on you, Thirdly he says he would never hurt me like that he says he respects me too much to do that to me and I want to trust that. Unfortunately he sort of looked down on his W and did not respect her in the same way. As she did not respect him. Forth he left his marraige that was not working and he stepped up to act on what he believed in and he left there is nothing dishonourble about that people do fall out of love and people do lose respect in their partners, and they do want to move on and the reality is they will always want to enter into another relationship so I really don't see how that should feel threatening to me the fact that he might want to move on some day to enter another relationship, if he feels what we have is not enough so be it, I cannot expect this man to not findin love again because he is no longer in love with me. I accept that because I am not afraid to start again if need be. you OWL seem too one sided to see this the entire time you have posted about your marriage you paint it like it is totally one sided, and that to me denotes a lack responsibility, of blinding oneself to the situation and of solving nothing. Your W in your eyes may be solely to blame but I would gurarantee her version would be very differnt, and you are lucky she was chicken enough to not want to give up all her comforts in order to leave you that she is taking on the entire responsibility for her actions but how or why she is doing this, you will never ever know what her realtity is because you don't have that kind of power it is your trust that can guide you nothing more nothing less. Now here you are a man who has been backstabbed in the worst possible way by somoeon who you did nothing but give all along and got pretty much nothing in return culminating in the ultimate outcome, betrayal, and still even beyond all that you are willing to put faith in someone who spat on your face, who showed you just how low they think you are, who took your goodness for granted, who used all the good things you did for her over the years and said "look this is what I think of you and your person and the love you have for me" and slapped you across the face, a person who is saying "deal with the image of me making deep passionate love to another man for the rest of your days because this is what I think of you and your love for me" and even if it was about them it is how they made you feel, and it doesn't get worse than that and you still are willing to see the better in them and put faith in THAT? why in the world would I not invest my trust in a person who has done none of those things to me and has shown me nothing but love? I honestly don't see how you can even dare to compare the two I really don't.

[Lizzie60]

Like I said, good luck. The man cheated with you so there is a chance he can cheat on you. Just like with my H. He has cheated so I know there is a possibility it could happen again. If it does I am gone. That is just reality.

 

Sometimes it happens.. but sometimes it doesn't... I was the OW for 11 years for my first ex.. she knew for many years of our A... she finally left him... he moved with me... he never cheated (not that I know anyway), I left him after 18 years... he was completely devastated...

 

I'm sure, 10 years later, he would dump his current gf (8 yrs) to take me back ... but it won't happen...

[luvmy2ns]

I feel sorry for him how do you make a person understand you want out and yet they guilt trip you into staying with them and use the guilt card to manipulate you to stay because you have some deep seated issues from childhood. That's not fair and that is not love. Love does not manipulate or coerce another human being to be with them, and he had enough.

 

But earlier you said he initially stayed as he had nowhere to go and wanted to be financially ready and wanted to leave "on his terms," not when she kicked him out. What you say above is TOTAL contradiction to that. HE is the one who manipulated and made her think he was willing to try to save their marriage when all he was doing was lying again to get what he wanted. A roof over his head. Nice.

[luvmy2ns]

First of all he is not my "MM man" he is divroced and he is my boyfriend, second of all he did not cheat on me your wife did cheat on you, Thirdly he says he would never hurt me like that he says he respects me too much to do that to me and I want to trust that. Unfortunately he sort of looked down on his W and did not respect her in the same way. As she did not respect him. Forth he left his marraige that was not working and he stepped up to act on what he believed in and he left there is nothing dishonourble about that people do fall out of love and people do lose respect in their partners, and they do want to move on and the reality is they will always want to enter into another relationship so I really don't see how that should feel threatening to me the fact that he might want to move on some day to enter another relationship, if he feels what we have is not enough so be it, I cannot expect this man to not findin love again because he is no longer in love with me. I accept that because I am not afraid to start again if need be. you OWL seem too one sided to see this the entire time you have posted about your marriage you paint it like it is totally one sided, and that to me denotes a lack responsibility, of blinding oneself to the situation and of solving nothing. Your W in your eyes may be solely to blame but I would gurarantee her version would be very differnt, and you are lucky she was chicken enough to not want to give up all her comforts in order to leave you that she is taking on the entire responsibility for her actions but how or why she is doing this, you will never ever know what her realtity is because you don't have that kind of power it is your trust that can guide you nothing more nothing less. Now here you are a man who has been backstabbed in the worst possible way by somoeon who you did nothing but give all along and got pretty much nothing in return culminating in the ultimate outcome, betrayal, and still even beyond all that you are willing to put faith in someone who spat on your face, who showed you just how low they think you are, who took your goodness for granted, who used all the good things you did for her over the years and said "look this is what I think of you and your person and the love you have for me" and slapped you across the face, a person who is saying "deal with the image of me making deep passionate love to another man for the rest of your days because this is what I think of you and your love for me" and even if it was about them it is how they made you feel, and it doesn't get worse than that and you still are willing to see the better in them and put faith in THAT? why in the world would I not invest my trust in a person who has done none of those things to me and has shown me nothing but love? I honestly don't see how you can even dare to compare the two I really don't.

 

He should have left the marriage BEFORE he started f'ing around. THAT would have been the "honorable" thing to do.

[sarme]

He should have left the marriage BEFORE he started f'ing around. THAT would have been the "honorable" thing to do.

 

Well...he didn't! Deal with it.

[jj2007]

Well...he didn't! Deal with it.

 

Just think about it, that could be something you have to deal with one day!

[bentnotbroken]

It is nice he respects you enough to not cheat on you. Too bad he didn't respect his wife or the promise he made to not cheat on her. I don't think that one BS thinks that you should stay in a loveless marriage, but I think that all of us think that there are certain ethical steps that you take to treat everyone with respect.

 

You say his wife didn't respect him, but you said she loved him enough to go to counseling and try to save the marriage. I don't know about others, but that denotes some respect to me.

 

His martyerdom doesn't come with a halo, and here mistakes don't come with horns and pitchfork.

[luvmy2ns]

Just think about it, that could be something you have to deal with one day!

 

JUST what I was thinking. And I am certainly not the one who will have to deal with it.

[sarme]

Just think about it, that could be something you have to deal with one day!

 

And I will indeed deal with it when the time comes until then I love this man and he makes me feel like no one else exists. And if this only lasted for a month I would trade in a month of how good this feels over an etire miserable existence of a mediocre tie with someone who only wants to half be with you. This man gives me the world I don't think his poor w knows what this man is capable of giving because she didn't bring it out in him and didn't get what I get from him his own friends and family have told me so they see a transformation in him. That is the sad truth. Some people fight for a relationship and to get things that are just not going to come naturally from their partner because they just don't feel that with you. And I know that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of you BSs but my point is not to offend you but to make you realise that you could be getting SO much more and you are settling for getting half of what a person wants to give. So you fight for mediocrecy and I'll fight for the full deal and if it comes to a quick halt I would rather have lived with full vigor than to have lived in the status quo.

[whichwayisup]

What I don't understand is, why you hate his wife so much? It really shows in all your posts, such resentment.

 

Well...he didn't! Deal with it.

 

Noone here has to deal with it, he's your boyfriend, you have to deal with that. If your'e OK with it, then that's a good thing. Right?

[luvmy2ns]

And I will indeed deal with it when the time comes until then I love this man and he makes me feel like no one else exists. And if this only lasted for a month I would trade in a month of how good this feels over an etire miserable existence of a mediocre tie with someone who only wants to half be with you. This man gives me the world I don't think his poor w knows what this man is capable of giving because she didn't bring it out in him and didn't get what I get from him his own friends and family have told me so they see a transformation in him. That is the sad truth. Some people fight for a relationship and to get things that are just not going to come naturally from their partner because they just don't feel that with you. And I know that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of you BSs but my point is not to offend you but to make you realise that you could be getting SO much more and you are settling for getting half of what a person wants to give. So you fight for mediocrecy and I'll fight for the full deal and if it comes to a quick halt I would rather have lived with full vigor than to have lived in the status quo.

 

She may have gotten all of him in the beginning too, and maybe he was the one whose efforts began diminishing as he grew tired of the same old woman around the house, at which point she began to give less and less as well.

 

Good luck.

[sarme]

It is nice he respects you enough to not cheat on you. Too bad he didn't respect his wife or the promise he made to not cheat on her. I don't think that one BS thinks that you should stay in a loveless marriage, but I think that all of us think that there are certain ethical steps that you take to treat everyone with respect.

 

You say his wife didn't respect him, but you said she loved him enough to go to counseling and try to save the marriage. I don't know about others, but that denotes some respect to me.

 

His martyerdom doesn't come with a halo, and here mistakes don't come with horns and pitchfork.

 

So far so good. She didn't love him enough to go to therapy she was the only one who wanted therapy it was not about love it was desperately about trying to hang on to him when she found out about us, before that it was neglect pretty much for three years.She had deep seated issues she is insecure and she wanted to keep him for fear of being alone, for what the friends and neighbours would think if they found out the marriage dissolved, she was terrified of starting over again on her own because she felt unattractive and she is quite introverted and serious. A total downer. They didn't have fun together period. They did prob the first year they were married and then it was all down hill from there. Complete opposite of him so he provided all the entertainment and fun she does not have on her own, while he is more volatile and spontaneous and sometimes can be quite scattered and disorganized she provided a good balance to him in that respect because she was detailed and very focused. Me on the other other hand I am exactly like him I am fun and outgoing and very personble make friends very easily when we are out I am usually the center of attention and have no problem fending for myself in social situations but I am also super organized and detailed so I provide the same balance his ex did but with an injection of sexiness and fun and direct communication something he seriously lacked and longed for in his marriage to her.

[GreenEyedLady]

No one here has to deal with it, he's your boyfriend, you have to deal with that. If your'e OK with it, then that's a good thing. Right?

 

I think you are so right, WWIU...

 

Everyone else's opinion is just an opinion, formed by their own experiences...

 

And all that matters is that we love and trust our partners...

 

What anyone else says doesn't affect that R, unless we let it...And if we're ok with our choices and our partner's choices, it doesn't matter what anyone else says...

 

Although, I must say it's so annoying to hear people go on and on about how he shoulda done this and shoulda done that...Maybe that's the difference between people: some live in the present and some live in the past...

[jj2007]

And I will indeed deal with it when the time comes until then I love this man and he makes me feel like no one else exists. And if this only lasted for a month I would trade in a month of how good this feels over an etire miserable existence of a mediocre tie with someone who only wants to half be with you. This man gives me the world I don't think his poor w knows what this man is capable of giving because she didn't bring it out in him and didn't get what I get from him his own friends and family have told me so they see a transformation in him. That is the sad truth. Some people fight for a relationship and to get things that are just not going to come naturally from their partner because they just don't feel that with you. And I know that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of you BSs but my point is not to offend you but to make you realise that you could be getting SO much more and you are settling for getting half of what a person wants to give. So you fight for mediocrecy and I'll fight for the full deal and if it comes to a quick halt I would rather have lived with full vigor than to have lived in the status quo.

 

 

I wouldn't be with my H now if he hasn't shown me that he is willing to put his all into it. Right now I'm getting all my needs met and my H is too. I would never settle for half of what a person wants to give. I know I deserve better than that.

[whichwayisup]

Although, I must say it's so annoying to hear people go on and on about how he shoulda done this and shoulda done that...

 

Yeah but we're all guilty of doing this. It's just part of the discussions that happen on LS.

[luvmy2ns]

I think you are so right, WWIU...

 

Everyone else's opinion is just an opinion, formed by their own experiences...

 

And all that matters is that we love and trust our partners...

 

What anyone else says doesn't affect that R, unless we let it...And if we're ok with our choices and our partner's choices, it doesn't matter what anyone else says...

 

Although, I must say it's so annoying to hear people go on and on about how he shoulda done this and shoulda done that...Maybe that's the difference between people: some live in the present and some live in the past...

 

There's an oft used saying: "History repeats itself."

[sarme]

She may have gotten all of him in the beginning too, and maybe he was the one whose efforts began diminishing as he grew tired of the same old woman around the house, at which point she began to give less and less as well.

 

Good luck.

 

It was never there with his wife, trust me I know this for a fact. Apparently this man has had a transformation with me he honestly feels like he has never loved like this before. Is it an exaggeration? I don't know because I didn't know him in his past but his family claims to have never seen him this way.I think he was that unhappy in his marriage he really does feel a new found sense of self. He gave me a beautiful platinum promise ring while we were having the affair, he knew in his heart he wanted things to be serious with me right from the get go even thought things were terribly messed up in how we met his intentions were one way only. But hurting a person he cared for and hurting another person he also cared for and was terribly afraid he was going to lose was devestating to him, and this is why I know that he is really in this for all the right reasons and I really don't feel he has it in him to go down that path again, especially since what we have is so so different from his past. you really cannot compare the two.

[silktricks]

We'll have to disagree.

 

My marriage has absolutely been worth saving.

 

As has mine (though it took me longer than Owl - I'd say closer to 3 years, maybe a little over).

[luvmy2ns]

It was never there with his wife, trust me I know this for a fact. Apparently this man has had a transformation with me he honestly feels like he has never loved like this before. Is it an exaggeration? I don't know because I didn't know him in his past but his family claims to have never seen him this way.I think he was that unhappy in his marriage he really does feel a new found sense of self. He gave me a beautiful platinum promise ring while we were having the affair, he knew in his heart he wanted things to be serious with me right from the get go even thought things were terribly messed up in how we met his intentions were one way only. But hurting a person he cared for and hurting another person he also cared for and was terribly afraid he was going to lose was devestating to him, and this is why I know that he is really in this for all the right reasons and I really don't feel he has it in him to go down that path again, especially since what we have is so so different from his past. you really cannot compare the two.

 

Wow. I didn't know you knew them when they met; when they married.

[underpants]

you really cannot compare the two.

 

...and yet you continue to do so. Maybe the marriage had an effect on the affair?

 

How long have you two been together since the divorce?

[Owl]

Sarme, I'd be glad to respond to your post, but honestly I can't get through it. Punctuation is your friend. Paragraphs and spacing really help others to follow your thoughts and more clearly understand what you're trying to say.

 

I did get that you can't understand how I can compare situations.

 

Its simple. He cheated...not on YOU...but he cheated on his wife.

 

You don't see it as cheating...because he was cheating WITH you.

 

I don't make that distinction, because bluntly the cheating has FAR FAR FAR more to do with the cheatER than it does with the person who was cheated on.

 

Given your perspective, I'm sure that you won't agree.

 

We'll agree to disagree then.

 

I see no value in continuing, for either of us.

[Lizzie60]

Thing is ... when two young people fell in love.. let's say at 23-25 yr old.. how can you be sure, at that young age, that you're going to love the other person for the rest of your life.. it's totally insane.

 

IMO, people are way too immature to make a life-changing and life-long decision like that... it's totally crazy...

 

I don't believe in marriage unless it's a 'money' thing.. other than that, there is no point... and even if it's for the pension, to have kids or whatnot.. it is ridiculous to think it will last 'til death do us part'

 

Marriage should be abolished.. it's only a religious thing anyway... Vows are dumb and not realistic...

[Owl]

I don't believe in marriage unless it's a 'money' thing..

 

Lizzie, I've seen any number of other OW say that same thing on this board.

 

There's nothing wrong with believing that, IMHO.

 

Except for the fact that this isn't what MM agreed to when he got married. It darn sure isn't what his BW agreed to either. I doubt she feels that way...and your choice to cheat with her H directly impacts that.

 

I understand that you couldn't care less about her, that she's not your responsibility. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while this may be your belief, when it comes into a direct confict with another person's life, it sure does make THEIR choice to believe in marriage a painful one.

[sarme]

Thing is ... when two young people fell in love.. let's say at 23-25 yr old.. how can you be sure, at that young age, that you're going to love the other person for the rest of your life.. it's totally insane.

 

IMO, people are way too immature to make a life-changing and life-long decision like that... it's totally crazy...

 

I don't believe in marriage unless it's a 'money' thing.. other than that, there is no point... and even if it's for the pension, to have kids or whatnot.. it is ridiculous to think it will last 'til death do us part'

 

Marriage should be abolished.. it's only a religious thing anyway... Vows are dumb and not realistic...

 

BINGO!!! They met when they were 23 6years later married.

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie, I've seen any number of other OW say that same thing on this board.

 

There's nothing wrong with believing that, IMHO.

 

Except for the fact that this isn't what MM agreed to when he got married. It darn sure isn't what his BW agreed to either. I doubt she feels that way...and your choice to cheat with her H directly impacts that.

 

I understand that you couldn't care less about her, that she's not your responsibility. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while this may be your belief, when it comes into a direct confict with another person's life, it sure does make THEIR choice to believe in marriage a painful one.

 

 

I don,t agree... if they are seeking an OW.. something is wrong with the M... As I said before.. I will repeat it... most MM are in sexless or boring sex life with their W... they need more than a roomate, but most women can deal with just that, as long as they have a comfortable life with the kids...