How do you KNOW that your affair isn't contributing to the decline of their marriage?

[whichwayisup]

They met when they were 23 6years later married.

 

So, he hasn't been on his own since he's been 23 years old? End his marriage and right to you. I'm not saying that it won't work, but for it to stay a healthy relationship with you, he really needs to work on himself and be alone. I mean, he has tons of emotional baggage that he needs to grow from, as well as make sure he doesn't make the same mistakes the second time around.

[luvmy2ns]

BINGO!!! They met when they were 23 6years later married.

 

So he knew this worthless, downer of a woman for six years and then married her? Ummm.... Sounds good...

[Lizzie60]

BINGO!!! They met when they were 23 6years later married.

 

It's really crazy IMO to think that two 23-yr old kids can make such serious commitment... for life... that's waaayyyy too young.

 

We don't even know what our career will be at that age... most of the kids that age are unsettled... in debts... they have too much pressure for such a young age.

[Owl]

I don,t agree... if they are seeking an OW.. something is wrong with the M... As I said before.. I will repeat it... most MM are in sexless or boring sex life with their W... they need more than a roomate, but most women can deal with just that, as long as they have a comfortable life with the kids...

 

We don't agree. If they're seeking an OW...there MAY be something wrong with the marriage. There is DEFINITELY something wrong with THEM. Regardless of the 'state of the marriage'...the choice to cheat is a clear indicator of selfishness and self-centeredness. The OTHER options would be to either address the problem directly, or divorce.

 

As a man...those would be MY options, as opposed to cheating.

[luvmy2ns]

We don't agree. If they're seeking an OW...there MAY be something wrong with the marriage. There is DEFINITELY something wrong with THEM. Regardless of the 'state of the marriage'...the choice to cheat is a clear indicator of selfishness and self-centeredness. The OTHER options would be to either address the problem directly, or divorce.

 

As a man...those would be MY options, as opposed to cheating.

 

Cheating men aren't real men in my book. If you have any kind of integrity whatsoever you deal with people with honesty. That means you either fix what's wrong in the marriage or, if that isn't possible, you divorce. You don't go about chasing tail.

[sarme]

Its simple. He cheated...not on YOU...but he cheated on his wife.

 

You don't see it as cheating...because he was cheating WITH you.

 

I don't make that distinction, because bluntly the cheating has FAR FAR FAR more to do with the cheatER than it does with the person who was cheated on.

 

Given your perspective, I'm sure that you won't agree.

 

We'll agree to disagree then.

 

I see no value in continuing, for either of us.

 

In your case it was 100% about the cheater, or so you want to believe and that's fine you believe what you want to believe that is not the case in every case and we are exploring this in therapy, therapists see affiars all the time and they run the gammit, some are individuals having problems some are the dynamic but the bottom line is and this should ring true no matter what your belief is on what prompted the affairs, affairs are about needs not being met. Even if this man stayed in his marriage his needs would not be met, nor was meeting her needs a realtity for this man, the dynamic they had did not lend itself to that and he had to figure this out the hard way. Three people had to suffer in extreme pain, yes three because we all fuffered, to figure this out. His # one need was communication something that no matter how hard they tried to work on it would not change add to that all the other unmet needs and wants and you have to make a decision and stand by it or continue beating your head on the wall.

[Lizzie60]

So, he hasn't been on his own since he's been 23 years old? End his marriage and right to you. I'm not saying that it won't work, but for it to stay a healthy relationship with you, he really needs to work on himself and be alone. I mean, he has tons of emotional baggage that he needs to grow from, as well as make sure he doesn't make the same mistakes the second time around.

 

 

I disagree... he is older now.. he probably had time to work on himself while he was with his W... he now know what he wants and what he doesn't want...

 

See... when kids get married.. most do because they think they're in love.. when in fact they're in 'lust'... and we all know that lust doesn't last 'til death do us part'...

 

They shouldn't get married before they are older and sure they want to spend the rest of their life with that person... I would say that if you pass the 10 yr mark... you're OK... your chances are better...

[luvmy2ns]

In your case it was 100% about the cheater, or so you want to believe and that's fine you believe what you want to believe that is not the case in every case and we are exploring this in therapy, therapists see affiars all the time and they run the gammit, some are individuals having problems some are the dynamic but the bottom line is and this should ring true no matter what your belief is on what prompted the affairs, affairs are about needs not being met. Even if this man stayed in his marriage his needs would not be met, nor was meeting her needs a realtity for this man, the dynamic they had did not lend itself to that and he had to figure this out the hard way. Three people had to suffer in extreme pain, yes three because we all fuffered, to figure this out. His # one need was communication something that no matter how hard they tried to work on it would not change add to that all the other unmet needs and wants and you have to make a decision and stand by it or continue beating your head on the wall.

 

*Beating head against brick wall* Let's say this one more time. No one is saying divorce isn't sometimes the only option. But you divorce BEFORE you stick your thing in some other woman, or before you let some other man stick his thing in you.

[Owl]

It's really crazy IMO to think that two 23-yr old kids can make such serious commitment... for life... that's waaayyyy too young.

 

People used to marry far younger than that...and remained married.

 

Heck...by the time I was that age, I was a father of four, a combat veteran, and responsible for the lives of 15 men and about $13 million in equipment. I was a professionally certified instructor, and fully qualified as an "expert" with virtually every small arms weapon in the US and Soviet inventories.

 

 

I was fully capable of making such a 'life long commitment'.

[Lizzie60]

We don't agree. If they're seeking an OW...there MAY be something wrong with the marriage. There is DEFINITELY something wrong with THEM. Regardless of the 'state of the marriage'...the choice to cheat is a clear indicator of selfishness and self-centeredness. The OTHER options would be to either address the problem directly, or divorce.

 

As a man...those would be MY options, as opposed to cheating.

 

What if they can't bear the idea to live separated from their kids... You can fall out of love with your partner but you never EVER fall out of love for your children...

 

I don,t know if you have kids.. but if you do.. you know what I mean. Men care for their kids just as much as women do.

[stampdaddy]

I've been following this post as well as MANY others, including my own, and it just keeps running in a big circle, with the 3 people involved, and I STILL dont get it. While some of this is "elementary", EVERY situation is different and every party involved is different and every outcome is different..

 

I, being the OM, cannot figure out the BS, WHY he would want to stay now (although he did tell MW he wanted a Divorce after the Holidays, which is now). I can fully understand why people would ask me, "what do you think the odds are that you'd make it with MW, knowing what you know, etc...) And, quite frankly, with this NC that has been on again/off again and knowing that it more than likely be the BS that makes the decision to D, I am VERY concerned with how I am going to feel IF I wind up with MW..

 

I know now that for all of the Joy I thought I would wind up with is taking some serious damage and everyday it gets a little worse. Maybe I am not looking at MY situation correctly. Maybe after 3 1/2 years of EVERYDAY with MW, this NC is killing me. Maybe I am scared to death of many things.

 

I know that many of you have been kind to me, being the OM, and it means alot to have you try to understand "our" side of this triangle

[whichwayisup]

if they are seeking an OW.. something is wrong with the M

 

Maybe, or they are broken inside. Sometimes people cheat because they can and they're just plain selfish.

[luvmy2ns]

Maybe, or they are broken inside. Sometimes people cheat because they can and they're just plain selfish.

 

Ya think!?

[Lizzie60]

People used to marry far younger than that...and remained married.

 

Heck...by the time I was that age, I was a father of four, a combat veteran, and responsible for the lives of 15 men and about $13 million in equipment. I was a professionally certified instructor, and fully qualified as an "expert" with virtually every small arms weapon in the US and Soviet inventories.

 

 

I was fully capable of making such a 'life long commitment'.

 

Yes maybe you were smart, mature.. but nevertheless.. your wife still cheated on you...

 

My parents, and grandparents also married very young.. .in those days, people weren't as educated as they are now...

 

In most cases, they had 5 to 15 kids... the wives were not working outside, not making any money.. so what were their choice... the law wasn't what it is now...

 

These women had to endure their dumb *********... without complaining.. gosh I have sooo many examples I'm thinking now...

 

I wouldn't want to live in those years... imagine...

 

I was fully capable of making such a 'life long commitment'

 

YOU WERE.. not her...

[Owl]

I, being the OM, cannot figure out the BS, WHY he would want to stay now (although he did tell MW he wanted a Divorce after the Holidays, which is now).

 

And frankly, I cannot understand why YOU have trouble understanding that he's fighting for the very same woman you are. Only in his case, he's got a MUCH longer term relationship and established family and that many MORE years of emotional investment in her than you do.

 

If YOU are willing to fight that hard for her...why would it amaze you that someone with that much MORE time spent with her would fight just as hard?

[sarme]

So he knew this worthless, downer of a woman for six years and then married her? Ummm.... Sounds good...

 

She is not worthless by a long shot, a downer yes worthles no way. Anyway people marry for all sorts of wrong reasons all the time, you are married you should know that, and to be quite honest I really don't care why they married whatever it was that seemed to work then didn't work in the long run and that is pretty much all she wrote.

[whichwayisup]

I, being the OM, cannot figure out the BS, WHY he would want to stay now (although he did tell MW he wanted a Divorce after the Holidays, which is now). I can fully understand why people would ask me, "what do you think the odds are that you'd make it with MW, knowing what you know, etc...)

 

But WHY should he let go if he still loves his wife? If she is still there, pretending to make the marriage work, that is giving HIM the green light to want to stay even more and try harder. Why are you hanging on stamps? Probably for the same reason why her husband is...Love.

 

The thing is, your MW seems to be telling you and her husband TWO different things, keeping you BOTH hanging on, waiting to see what SHE decides.

[Lizzie60]

Maybe, or they are broken inside. Sometimes people cheat because they can and they're just plain selfish.

 

 

Yes sometimes... but many many times, they are in a boring M... they are selfish.. but the W who withhold sex because she has no more libido is also selfish...

[Owl]

OK...I'm thinking this has deteriorated into the standard BS/OP bashing session now.

 

Thank you all for your input...

[luvmy2ns]

She is not worthless by a long shot, a downer yes worthles no way. Anyway people marry for all sorts of wrong reasons all the time, you are married you should know that, and to be quite honest I really don't care why they married whatever it was that seemed to work then didn't work in the long run and that is pretty much all she wrote.

 

I'm not married. And yeah, if they have a lousy marriage, they either fix it or divorce. But that's not quite the order it went in. In fact, he further deceived her by making her think they would try to work out their problems just so he could have a place to live. Yuck.

[sarme]

I'm not married. .

 

Well there you have it then you know all to well what it's like to be with someone who does not want to be with you or that you don't want to be with you, **** happens.

[stampdaddy]

And frankly, I cannot understand why YOU have trouble understanding that he's fighting for the very same woman you are. Only in his case, he's got a MUCH longer term relationship and established family and that many MORE years of emotional investment in her than you do.

 

If YOU are willing to fight that hard for her...why would it amaze you that someone with that much MORE time spent with her would fight just as hard?

 

Owl, I am not arguing those things.. It's just that (different from your case, which was bad enough), MW here "left" her M behind over 3 years ago. HIS words were that "he hasnt had a wife for over 3 years, OM has..." He hasnt had sex for over 3 years, OM has, he hasnt had a partner, OM has. He has been "room and board, a meal ticket" etc, etc..

So, my wonder is why or HOW he could want her back.. just my point of view and the questions that come from it... not bashing

[sarme]

I'm not married. And yeah, if they have a lousy marriage, they either fix it or divorce. But that's not quite the order it went in. In fact, he further deceived her by making her think they would try to work out their problems just so he could have a place to live. Yuck.

 

He was in between careers and was not financially in a position to give up all of his belongings to abruptly leave this home because he was caught having an affair he wanted to do the split right not in anger what's so yuk about that? it's smart actually!

[Lizzie60]

He was in between careers and was not financially in a position to give up all of his belongings to abruptly leave this home because he was caught having an affair he wanted to do the split right not in anger what's so yuk about that? it's smart actually!

 

No matter how you put it... they'll find something...

 

I think he was smart indeed.. like many MM\MW who take their time to do it the right way...

 

I totally agree and respect people like that... He is a good person... no matter what others think... YOU know he's a good man...

[sarme]

Owl, I am not arguing those things.. It's just that (different from your case, which was bad enough), MW here "left" her M behind over 3 years ago. HIS words were that "he hasnt had a wife for over 3 years, OM has..." He hasnt had sex for over 3 years, OM has, he hasnt had a partner, OM has. He has been "room and board, a meal ticket" etc, etc..

So, my wonder is why or HOW he could want her back.. just my point of view and the questions that come from it... not bashing

 

do you wanna know the truth the bottom line truth? Because deep down a BS is so hurt by the betrayal they do not want you to end with their partners and actually be happy, that is the bottom line selfish reason why. They just don't want them to be happy with you. My b/fs ex said those very words to him "I don't want you to start a relationship with her if you leave me" bottom line. And the bottom line is who cares what they want, they don't own another person people are not love slaves, they are human beings with their own will and their own right to free choice to feel and do, that initself denotes what a lack of love she had for him. Love does not coerce another human being to pick them. Love let's go because they want what is best for the one they love.