How do you KNOW that your affair isn't contributing to the decline of their marriage?

[Mustang Sally]

Owl -

It sounds like in your situation, the A was a product of one partner's inner brokenness, if you will.

 

I think certainly, this is sometimes the case.

 

The alternative, however, is that both partners are to blame (of varying degrees possibly) for the deterioration of the relationship.

 

Not sure what a spouse is to do in the first case, above, like you. Except wait for the sh*t to hit the fan when the broken partner's issues finally surface. Then you get to decide whether you want to stick it out or not.

 

After all, you can lead a horse to water....

[OWoman]

The BS rarely is just sitting there blissfully unaware of the problems.

 

Hmm I'm probably going to get flamed for this but Owl, are you suggesting that if there's an A, there MUST be problems in the M? I've had As with some MM who've been pretty happy in their M before the A, and went back to being pretty happy after the A (no D-day, no fireworks - I just got bored and moved on) and are still together as happy as ever... at least, as far as anyone on the outside can tell.

 

But in those cases, why WOULD the BS be aware of "problems" if there weren't any?

[Meaplus3]

Some interesting responses.

 

I thought it was interesting that many people were commenting that an A had nothing to do with the marriage situation...so I started this thread.

 

Some additional "food for thought".

 

Do you know WHO makes the majority of the changes in a marriage that recovers from an A?

 

INITIALLY...the first 6 months or so...the BS does. Interestingly enough, these are usually transitory changes in expectations while the marriage is recovering. Learning to tolerate some of the withdrawl symptoms that the WS goes through...learning to listen to very painful things without reacting...etc...

 

The LONG term changes are typically made by the WS. Learning to communicate their emotions to the BS...learning how to establish 'boundaries' to protect themselves and their marriage from going through another A...etc...

 

The A is RARELY a 'wake up call' JUST for the BS.

 

I was well aware of the 'issues' in my marriage for the last year prior to my wife's EA. I TRIED to deal and work through them. The problem was...SHE was the one creating them, and SHE was the one who needed to make the change. You can't FORCE anyone to change...it doesn't work. She had to DECIDE to make those changes. I wasn't yet ready to give up 17 years of marriage (at the time)...I was looking for some way for things to get better BEFORE that point was reached.

 

I wasn't sitting there "with my head in the sand".

 

I WILL admit that I didn't believe that she was capable of cheating on me. I honestly figured that she'd divorce me BEFORE she went that kind of route. I was wrong...it was a learning experience.

 

But that 'gap' between us? Not my doing. Resisted all attempts at fixing it that I made. It required action on HER part...changes on HER part.

 

So...something to think about too. When a marriage DOES recover...its not the BS who's making most of those long term changes. There are some made on both ends...but honestly, its the WS who has to make the lion's share of them.

 

The BS rarely is just sitting there blissfully unaware of the problems. Often the issue is...they don't know what else to do to FIX the problems. Or they simply CAN'T because the issues are all in the WS's court to fix...but the BS isn't willing to simply walk away from years of marriage. They're still looking for ways to fix the issues, or hoping that something (not an affair, of course) will change the situation to effect the changes that need to happen.

 

And...expecting ANYONE to be 'thankful' for someone sleeping with their spouse???? You've GOT to be kidding me...

 

The BS rarely is just sitting there blissfully unaware of the problems. Often the issue is...they don't know what else to do to FIX the problems. Or they simply CAN'T because the issues are all in the WS's court to fix...but the BS isn't willing to simply walk away from years of marriage. They're still looking for ways to fix the issues, or hoping that something (not an affair, of course) will change the situation to effect the changes that need to happen.

I don't understand how you could say that the issues would fall mostly with the ws?

 

AP:)

[Tomcat33]

So let me get this straight, basically what you are saying is that the WS is the only one who has to do all the changing because the BS was perfect the whole time and ALL the marital problems had to do with what the WS was going though and nothing more beyond that? And even so you yourself are admitting that EVEN if the problems were one sided and all the WSs doing that still is irrelvant and outside of having the A.

 

I mean look at what you say about the BS for the first 6months, the ONLY change they make is to accept the new reality of this A an hence they make changes accordingly to adapt to that, but as far as problems with the Marriage were concerned there really are none because they have nothing to work on themselves . SO all significant changes that improve the marriage come from then WS eventually because they were the only ones at fault leading up to the A.

 

WOW OWL that may be the case in your situation but I SERIOUSLY doubt that is across the board. I doubt that was even the case in your situation. Relationships TAKE 2 it's not one sided. Both partners contribute to the breakdown.

 

 

And...expecting ANYONE to be 'thankful' for someone sleeping with their spouse???? You've GOT to be kidding me...

 

I was being facetious.

[Lizzie60]

I have to disagree... it's not the case for every affair.

 

all about sharing. Sharing feelings, ideas, dreams…talking about daily events, spending time together, etc…

 

Then what about close friends... let's say the MM meets with his friends once a week in a sports bar or something.. and he share his feelings about his marriage... I don't see the difference. It's time shared apart from his W... right?

 

I usually meet with my MM from work about once a week... I am not taking any time off his W... as we meet during work hours..

 

Well, here’s the deal. When MP is doing all that sharing with you, he’s NOT sharing that with his wife. He’s no longer putting any of that investment into his marriage…he’s investing it in his relationship with you, instead.

 

When you're married, you're not 'attached' to the other partner.. you still have a life of your own.

 

Yes, I know…he’s insisted that they’ve not been ‘in love’ for years. They’re in a ‘sexless marriage’.

 

9 times out of 10.. it IS the reason why the MM is going outside the M... because she's not sharing the physical aspect of the relationship... She is cheating in a way too. I know that, I've seen sooo many MMs in the last 5 yrs that I know that.

 

So you see, the affair almost immediately starts deteriorating the state of the marriage too.

 

No, in most cases, there is absolutely no difference... they were best friends before..they're still best friends...

 

Because now the OP is getting what the BS used to get…even if they didn’t seem to appreciate it (to MP’s eyes).

 

Well.. too bad so sad... she just had to keep up with her part of the deal.

 

Often, the BS is “comfortable” with how the marriage is.

 

Oups..for once... that I agree...

 

They don’t realize that their spouse is that unhappy. If they DID realize the extent of it, normally they would start making changes.

 

No...the truth is that she doesn't give a rat's a$$... my MM has talked many times about her problem... she gets mad and doesn't want to talk about it... She's cold as ice... I can suppose... I've seen her... ewwww

 

But when the affair starts, the MP suddenly becomes “cold and distant” to the BS. They stop sharing anything with the BS. It HURTS…it’s a change in the marriage. They don’t talk about those dreams/feelings/daily events…the physical intimacy change can go either way.

 

This is soooo far from the truth.. most MMs remain the same... or, in some cases, become more 'sexual' with their W... strange but it's true. That's why, in some cases, the OW can be a sex therapist...

 

With my MM.. he remains exactly the way he was with her and the children.. there is absolulety no changes whatsoever.

 

You can't generalize like that... not two A are the same.

 

What they invest in one relationship no longer goes into the other.

How they feel for one person automatically impacts how they feel for the other.

 

I disagree...that's your point of view.. what they feel for one automatically impacts on the other... not necessarily.. if the 'passion' is gone in the M... nothing will bring that back.. it never come back, especially after 20 yrs... they will feel the same about the W.

 

I’ve seen this happen personally in my wife during her emotional affair. I’ve also watched it happen in others…both in ‘real life’ friends

 

You see... I've seen the opposite happened... and most of my A... it didn't change anything in their M.

 

Can someone explain to me the OP side of this as clearly as I’ve spelled out what I’ve seen?

 

In my case, I do NOT get involved emotionally with any of my MMs... I like them.. period... we have fun, the sex is amazing. They don't stay... LOL... I kissed them 'beu -bye' on the forehead.. and out they are to go back to their family.

 

I know them well... I know they are good husbands and great fathers... otherwise I would not even tolerate them around me.

 

I am extremely picky for those things..

 

If they get emotionally attached..they either stay away for some time.. (since they know how I stand on this) or I dump them.. simple... I want no problems.

 

So.. I KNOW I am not causing any problem to their M, I am probably 'helping' their M..

[kchiapet95]

The alternative, however, is that both partners are to blame (of varying degrees possibly) for the deterioration of the relationship.

 

I have to agree with Mustang and TC on this one. Generally both partners are responsible for the breakdown, simply because it's like that in most relationships. We're all flawed, we all bring our own issues to any relationship. Working on our faults is an ongoing process.

[Trialbyfire]

How do you KNOW that your relationship with MP is not affecting the marriage?

Owl, that's just it. For the vast majority of OW/OM, the intent is for the affair to affect the marriage of the WS. As a rough guesstimate, 90% of affair partners will do anything, in order for the WS to leave their spouses.

[Tomcat33]

In reality it doesn't surprise me ONE bit that it just so happens that the very same BSs who claim that the OP wrecked their home and are the ones who broke down the marriage are also the same people who say that the recovery only happens when the WS makes all the changes.

 

Am I the only one seeing a clear pattern of "pass the buck" here or what?

 

 

Because the issues break down like this

 

1. The morality aspect and the idea that NO spouse deserves to be stabbed in the back like that NO MATTER HOW BAD the marriage is. I agree on that and I think most would.

 

and then there is aspect # 2

 

2. The A is not the problem for the marital breakdown, the partner who cheated is and his lack of responsibility to the marriage, and that BS for their contribution to the rel. breakdown that helped that bond break.

 

# 3 no OP is inocent unless they have been fooled into the A, but no OP is inocent. Yet there seems to be this running theme of people wating to BLAME the OP for destroying a marriage and this is the very basic concept that seems so hard to understand by many.

 

I've used this example many times and I think it is due again feel free to answer how you would resolve this:

 

If a spouse let's their inlaws move in with them and the inlaws keep meddling in the relationship so much so that it becomes unbearable and the marriage was already on rocky grounds due to lack of communication and general lack of comeradery between the couple, basically tension all around and now add this new addition to the situation who's job is to set the marriage first or rectify the situation? I understand that the inlaws should know better and respect the home they have been invited to, but ultimately who's responsibility is it to communicate there is something severely wrong here and a change MUST happen or else the relationship is going down the tubes?

Edited January 2, 2008 by Tomcat33

[Owl]

Well, first off...

 

Lizzie- I actually don't see your relationships with your MM's as affairs. From my perspective...yours is a business arrangment. I would be surprised if you viewed your role in things any differently than what you've stated. Its definitely 'infidelity' on their part...but in your case, the emotional 'attachment' is deliberately left out. They may become attached, but its highly unlikely you will.

 

I'll agree that in most cases, both parties contribute to the 'state of the marriage'. The difference is...the WS is the one who was selfish enough to have an affair. Hence why they tend to be the ones who need to make a lot of the changes...that selfishness in itself tends to be one of the largest 'issues' in the marriage. Both parties do have to make changes...but I've noticed a predominate thought here that its the BS who has to do most of that...or that the BS is the one who is PRIMARILY the one responsible for the condition of the marriage. My thought is that the reason this thought is so prominate here is because the viewpoint that most OP are getting is that of the WS...and as I've stated earlier...that viewpoint is already distorted by that persons actions to begin with.

 

Who in the marriage was the one who cheated to make themselves feel better? Rather than taking any number of other possible solutions to the problem? The WS. This is a LARGE part of why I say that they have the lion's share of 'changes' to make. I can easily say that from what I've seen on the boards, in my friends and family, and in my own case...the primary 'cause' of problems in marriages where infidelity occurred were due to the selfishness of the WS to begin with.

[OWoman]

Owl, that's just it. For the vast majority of OW/OM, the intent is for the affair to affect the marriage of the WS. As a rough guesstimate, 90% of affair partners will do anything, in order for the WS to leave their spouses.

 

Tbf I've had numerous As and "intent to get the WS to leave their spouse" was never on my agenda. Not even my current A, where MM HAS left his W - at the point where I became aware how abusive his M was (through the input of family, friends, colleagues - he didn't tell me) my intent was to ensure that they got some kind of counselling so that they'd be OK, and that MM would be in a position to decide what was best for himself and his kids. Leaving the M was entirely his decision - I made damned sure of that - through a thorough counselling process (IC - W refused to go for MC).

[Tomcat33]

Owl, that's just it. For the vast majority of OW/OM, the intent is for the affair to affect the marriage of the WS. As a rough guesstimate, 90% of affair partners will do anything, in order for the WS to leave their spouses.

 

 

Pffft I guess this goes right up there with the mythological 3% that leave the marriage for an affair. :laugh:

 

I love stats.

[Owl]

In reality it doesn't surprise me ONE bit that it just so happens that the very same BSs who claim that the OP wrecked their home and are the ones who broke down the marriage are also the same people who say that the recovery only happens when the WS makes all the changes.

 

Am I the only one seeing a clear pattern of "pass the buck" here or what?

 

 

When did I say that OP wrecked my home?

 

Do you know anyone who is in a happy marriage that is recovered from one partner or the other having an affair? If so, have you ever talked with them about HOW they recovered?

[Tomcat33]

Who in the marriage was the one who cheated to make themselves feel better? Rather than taking any number of other possible solutions to the problem? The WS. This is a LARGE part of why I say that they have the lion's share of 'changes' to make. I can easily say that from what I've seen on the boards, in my friends and family, and in my own case...the primary 'cause' of problems in marriages where infidelity occurred were due to the selfishness of the WS to begin with.

 

And why did that infidelity occur then? Let's look at one step beyond and assess why the affair happened?

[Tomcat33]

When did I say that OP wrecked my home?

 

Do you know anyone who is in a happy marriage that is recovered from one partner or the other having an affair? If so, have you ever talked with them about HOW they recovered?

 

 

Yes as a matter of fact I have talked to quite a few people who I have met here and we PM all the time, and let me tell you they don't take your stance. They understand what went wrong in the marriage what their contributions were and what the OP's role in all of it was. It's a different take than yours and neither is right or wrong, it just is.

 

 

But in my real world the the only people I know that are in happy marriages are those that did NOT involve As. Recovering from and A is not my idea of a truly happy marriage sorry.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Tomcat33

[Meaplus3]

Yes as a matter of fact I have talked to quite a few people who I have met here and we PM all the time, and let me tell you they don't take your stance. They understand what went wrong in the marriage what their contributions were and what the OP's role in all of it was. It's a different take than yours and neither is right or wrong, it just is.

 

 

But in my real world the the only people I know that are in happy marriages are those that did NOT involve As. Recovering from and A is not my idea of a truly happy marriage sorry.

 

I have to back you up here tom and say that I very much agree!

 

AP:)

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie- I actually don't see your relationships with your MM's as affairs. From my perspective...yours is a business arrangment. I would be surprised if you viewed your role in things any differently than what you've stated. Its definitely 'infidelity' on their part...but in your case, the emotional 'attachment' is deliberately left out. They may become attached, but its highly unlikely you will.

 

With the MM from work.. it is an A... he has no clue of my 'other' life... no clue at all... are you out of your mind? I work in the same organization...

 

My young MM knows about my life.. but does not 'contribute' anymore... is this an A then?

 

I am not in love with anyone... I have my favourites though...

 

I am not the only one who is satisfied with being an OW and not wanting more from the MM...

[Lizzie60]

Pffft I guess this goes right up there with the mythological 3% that leave the marriage for an affair. :laugh:

 

I love stats.

 

 

Me too..

[luvmy2ns]

Pffft I guess this goes right up there with the mythological 3% that leave the marriage for an affair. :laugh:

 

I love stats.

 

Ummm, she did say "rough guesstimate." And judging from what I read on these boards, I'd say she's made a pretty good guess.

[Owl]

I would agree...RECOVERING from an affair is NOT a happy marriage.

 

Note the word I used was 'recovered'.

 

Distinct difference.

 

Recovering from the affair was horrible. Dealing with it was something I won't do again. Going through her affair and fighting to save my marriage afterwards was the most devestating thing I've been through. And I've been through a bit more than many...lost my dad as a kid. Lived on the streets as a teenager for nearly a year. Combat veteran when I was 20. The list goes on...and none of that was as emotionally traumatic as dealing with her affair after 17 years of marriage.

 

But I said recovered. Which is where we are now. My marriage is a VERY happy place at this point.

 

I didn't intend to turn this thread into another bashing session, so I'll apologize for that right up front.

 

Nor am I trying to bash at, get even with, or anything else with any of the OP here.

 

My intent was to try to understand the OP's viewpoint when they say that their affair has no impact on the marriage.

[kchiapet95]

Did somebody say the affair has no impact? I missed that. I'll be the first to acknowledge it did have an impact. Of course it would. But so did the fact that they married because of a pregnancy and convenience, not because of love. So did the fact that she threatened to take his child away from him. So did the fact that he decided to be selfish and not tell her the M was over because he was worried about his financial security.

 

There are many factors that contributed to the decline of the marriage. The affair was one...but one of many. I think this is likely the case for lots of relationships. The specifics are different.

[Tomcat33]

Ummm, she did say "rough guesstimate." And judging from what I read on these boards, I'd say she's made a pretty good guess.

 

 

Yeah "rough guesstimate" based on what? what's read here or what's imagined in one's head? what? We can form a caucus and elect a board for our very own Sensus Stasitical Board of LS! I'll be the president since it was my idea, who wants to run for vice president? and then we can publish our own "official stats"

 

 

Here here...I have a stat too:

 

90% of BSs that stay in a marriage after they have been cheated on suffer fear of being alone and extreme neediness. Marriages never do survive affairs in the true love sense because it is a constant battle to overcome a horrible trauma that was induced by ONLY one partner and in effect a marriage does not recover it just shifts the attention to something new and challenging because left to deal with the direct relationship the two people have, they are faced with having to see their miserably harsh reality, and that is that they bore each other to tears or one partner is no longer excited by the other and I doubt they ever really will be.

 

The challenge, or "Operation Recovery" as I like to call it produces a new goal for the two and that is what keeps the rel alive, because without it, this new shared activity that is, they are both are left with each other and we know where that leads...emotional breakdown followed by an A. And more often than not the A person is not all that content with the BS anyway and VICE VERSA so it gives them something to look forward to.

 

how's that for a stat? see I can come up with stats too!

[Tomcat33]

Did somebody say the affair has no impact? I missed that. I'll be the first to acknowledge it did have an impact. Of course it would. But so did the fact that they married because of a pregnancy and convenience, not because of love. So did the fact that she threatened to take his child away from him. So did the fact that he decided to be selfish and not tell her the M was over because he was worried about his financial security.

 

There are many factors that contributed to the decline of the marriage. The affair was one...but one of many. I think this is likely the case for lots of relationships. The specifics are different.

 

 

100% percent agree. no one said an A has no impact!!

 

Computers contribute to the breakdown of marriages too, so do long dark winters in North America because people become depressed, HECK babies breakdown marriages because the W ususally is so consumed by mothering and the H with trying to earn the keep, that the rel suffers . I guess people should start calling Mother Nature and computers and BABIES "homewreckers" for destroying a marriage too.

 

OWL I understand you are not one of the people who blames the OP for wercking a home, my comment is for those who do say that.

 

Wrecking a home is killing a person and taking the the spouse away from their loved one, CANCER wrecks a home, murderes wreck a home, a WS has a say in the interruption no matter how you look at it.

[quankanne]

So.. I KNOW I am not causing any problem to their M, I am probably 'helping' their M..

 

with the exception of what OWoman shared about her lover's abusive relationship, I'm not sure I can I agree with your justification. An affair is not a solution, but a part of a problem in a shaky marriage. The guys you're sleeping with are looking for something on the side and you're happily supplying that something.

[Trialbyfire]

Ummm, she did say "rough guesstimate." And judging from what I read on these boards, I'd say she's made a pretty good guess.

Otherwise, why all the angst from OW/OM? It's easier to pick a daisy, pluck the petals one at a time and say "he loves me, he loves me not".

[Lizzie60]

Here here...I have a stat too:

 

90% of BSs that stay in a marriage after they have been cheated on suffer fear of being alone and extreme neediness.

 

I agree... they sometimes think about taking the cheater back or go right ahead and take him back... just in case he's changed...

 

Does say a lot about the BS... about the neediness... the emotional dependance...