The Wife Killed herself today

[OWoman]

He needs to man up and take care of his kids on his own and live with the fact that he made this happen. Now he has to live with it!

 

I'm going to get flamed I'm sure but I'm going to disagree. No one can MAKE anyone kill themselves any more than anyone could MAKE someone have an affair. You might become angry or hurt or alienated or frustrated (or whatever) because of someone else's actions, but any action YOU CHOOSE to take based on your reactions remains YOUR choice.

 

It's tragic that at the time this woman saw no other viable option, and made the choice she did - and it's tragic that she didn't confide in friends or a professional to help her through it. But to imply that her H somehow held a gun against her head and said "kill yourself or I'll do it for you" is both inaccurate and insulting to the deceased, denying her that final agency she exercised when she made her tragic choice.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I'm going to get flamed I'm sure but I'm going to disagree. No one can MAKE anyone kill themselves any more than anyone could MAKE someone have an affair. You might become angry or hurt or alienated or frustrated (or whatever) because of someone else's actions, but any action YOU CHOOSE to take based on your reactions remains YOUR choice.

 

It's tragic that at the time this woman saw no other viable option, and made the choice she did - and it's tragic that she didn't confide in friends or a professional to help her through it. But to imply that her H somehow held a gun against her head and said "kill yourself or I'll do it for you" is both inaccurate and insulting to the deceased, denying her that final agency she exercised when she made her tragic choice.

 

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeegggghhhh Wrong!!!

 

When you are married you are in control of your actions and by proxy when married are responsible for your actions alone!!! His actions led his wife feeling suicidal.

 

Yes there could have been other ways to resolve the situation, she didnt have to kill himself but he needs to know that his wife was being pushed to the edge because he would not stop with the OW.

 

Those were the unforseen consequences of his actions!!!

 

If he knew she would have killed herself because of the affair and was serious about it, he may have stopped, he may have called the police. I dont know.

 

He probably never knew she was going to kill herself but she did. Now he has to live with the fact that his actions led her there and thus acknowledge his hand in leading her down that path per his actions alone.

[Green]

I'm going to get flamed I'm sure but I'm going to disagree. No one can MAKE anyone kill themselves any more than anyone could MAKE someone have an affair. You might become angry or hurt or alienated or frustrated (or whatever) because of someone else's actions, but any action YOU CHOOSE to take based on your reactions remains YOUR choice.

 

It's tragic that at the time this woman saw no other viable option, and made the choice she did - and it's tragic that she didn't confide in friends or a professional to help her through it. But to imply that her H somehow held a gun against her head and said "kill yourself or I'll do it for you" is both inaccurate and insulting to the deceased, denying her that final agency she exercised when she made her tragic choice.

 

dont fear the reaper

[dropdeadlegs]

I'm going to get flamed I'm sure but I'm going to disagree. No one can MAKE anyone kill themselves any more than anyone could MAKE someone have an affair. You might become angry or hurt or alienated or frustrated (or whatever) because of someone else's actions, but any action YOU CHOOSE to take based on your reactions remains YOUR choice.

 

It's tragic that at the time this woman saw no other viable option, and made the choice she did - and it's tragic that she didn't confide in friends or a professional to help her through it. But to imply that her H somehow held a gun against her head and said "kill yourself or I'll do it for you" is both inaccurate and insulting to the deceased, denying her that final agency she exercised when she made her tragic choice.

I agree with you.

 

It was her choice, no matter what the incendiary circumstances were.

 

It is so sad that her children are left with the legacy of a parental suicide. So sad, indeed. I do hope they can cope and not feel responsible in any way.

[OWoman]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeegggghhhh Wrong!!!

 

Not "wrong", no. An opinion of the same status as yours - an opinion.

 

You can't have it both ways - either the actions of a spouse "drive the other" to do something - like cheat or commit suicide - or they don't.

 

If he's "guilty" of her suicide, then every BW is equally "guilty" of their WS's "cheating". That's Logic 101.

 

I choose to believe that people have free choice, and are responsible for their own actions. If you choose to believe that people are responsible for the actions of other adults, that's yours to believe - but then at least be consistent in that, not use it when it suits and deny it when it suits.

[Trialbyfire]

I equate a cheating spouse to a drunk driver, on his drive home. The drunk driver made the decision to drink too much, the bartender (OW/OM) empowered him by continuing to serve him and not taking away his keys. He gets in the car and weaving through traffic, ends up killing the mother of five, in a head-on accident.

 

The drunk driver didn't know the woman would be in the wrong place, at the wrong time. He didn't know that he would lose control of his car. He never meant anyone any harm. He just drank too much...

[Chrome Barracuda]

Not "wrong", no. An opinion of the same status as yours - an opinion.

 

You can't have it both ways - either the actions of a spouse "drive the other" to do something - like cheat or commit suicide - or they don't.

 

If he's "guilty" of her suicide, then every BW is equally "guilty" of their WS's "cheating". That's Logic 101.

 

I choose to believe that people have free choice, and are responsible for their own actions. If you choose to believe that people are responsible for the actions of other adults, that's yours to believe - but then at least be consistent in that, not use it when it suits and deny it when it suits.

 

I believe people have free will as well, but let's not be ignorant to just discount that his actions led her on a path to where she ended up. She chose to take her life. yes, but again, no one forced him to cheat right?

[dropdeadlegs]

I equate a cheating spouse to a drunk driver, on his drive home. The drunk driver made the decision to drink too much, the bartender (OW/OM) empowered him by continuing to serve him and not taking away his keys. He gets in the car and weaving through traffic, ends up killing the mother of five, in a head-on accident.

 

The drunk driver didn't know the woman would be in the wrong place, at the wrong time. He didn't know that he would lose control of his car. He never meant anyone any harm. He just drank too much...

Certainly in this case that is a fair equation.

 

The drunk driver exercises the same free will that a cheater does.

 

Interesting, to say the least. And I'm not particularly religious.

[malaclypse]

I equate a cheating spouse to a drunk driver, on his drive home. The drunk driver made the decision to drink too much, the bartender (OW/OM) empowered him by continuing to serve him and not taking away his keys. He gets in the car and weaving through traffic, ends up killing the mother of five, in a head-on accident.

 

The drunk driver didn't know the woman would be in the wrong place, at the wrong time. He didn't know that he would lose control of his car. He never meant anyone any harm. He just drank too much...

 

I don't think that's a good analogy. The wife who killed herself made a conscious decision to end her life, knowing how it would affect her children. It was her choice, and hers alone.

 

After an affair or a similar betrayal, I think everyone has these feelings of 'wanting to be dead' or so to stop the pain. But to actually go through with it and kill oneself, there must be way more problems than 'just' an affair.

[Trialbyfire]

I don't think that's a good analogy. The wife who killed herself made a conscious decision to end her life, knowing how it would affect her children. It was her choice, and hers alone.

 

After an affair or a similar betrayal, I think everyone has these feelings of 'wanting to be dead' or so to stop the pain. But to actually go through with it and kill oneself, there must be way more problems than 'just' an affair.

It's also the choice of the mother of five to get into her car and drive. A lot of people die in traffic accidents per year.

 

In 2006, 27,323 drivers died in car accidents. Refer to the .gov site below.

 

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Edited January 4, 2008 by Trialbyfire

[OWoman]

I believe people have free will as well, but let's not be ignorant to just discount that his actions led her on a path to where she ended up. She chose to take her life. yes, but again, no one forced him to cheat right?

 

Absolutely. He chose to cheat. She chose to take her life. To those of us on the outside, those might seem bad choices we wish they'd not made, but they made them nonetheless. He has to deal with the consequences of his actions, and others have to deal with the consequences of hers, and I'm sure that had EITHER of them had a full picture of what those consequences were going to be, their actions would likely have been different. But neither did, and they worked with the information and assumptions they had at the time, and made the choices they did - tragic as the outcome is.

[malaclypse]

Trialbyfire:

 

Still, the analogy is flawed.

 

The goal of driving somewhere is obviously to change locations. An accident may or may not happen, and if it does, the original goal has not been achieved.

 

The goal of suicide is obviously to kill oneself.

 

 

It's a tragic story, but it's very wrong to shift the blame for the suicide to anyone else but the wife. I think what she did is really irresponsible to her kids. Now her kids will have to suffer for a long time.

[Trialbyfire]

Trialbyfire:

 

Still, the analogy is flawed.

 

The goal of driving somewhere is obviously to change locations. An accident may or may not happen, and if it does, the original goal has not been achieved.

 

The goal of suicide is obviously to kill oneself.

 

 

It's a tragic story, but it's very wrong to shift the blame for the suicide to anyone else but the wife. I think what she did is really irresponsible to her kids. Now her kids will have to suffer for a long time.

Not all suicides are successful.

 

I know, I know, the OW will always argue that the dissolution of the marriage was caused by both parties. It's also arguable that the two should never have had children or gotten married. Maybe the two people shouldn't have fallen in love. Maybe if the OW hadn't been born, none of this would have happened.

 

You can debate it all the way back to Adam and Eve but it's all moot now, isn't it?

 

Tell me how the children will view this and survive this, to live functional lives. Tell me these children won't live through some serious pain.

 

Tell me this was necessary.

[malaclypse]

 

Tell me how the children will view this and survive this, to live functional lives. Tell me these children won't live through some serious pain.

 

Of course they will. A mother who kills herself is a trauma for life, I think we can agree to that.

 

My point is just that the suicide is not the fault of the H. It's the fault of the W.

 

This mother must have known how it would affect her children, but she still went through with it.

[Trialbyfire]

Of course they will. A mother who kills herself is a trauma for life, I think we can agree to that.

 

My point is just that the suicide is not the fault of the H. It's the fault of the W.

 

This mother must have known how it would affect her children, but she still went through with it.

You go OW. You go and point the finger at someone who was obviously in so much pain from his cheating, that she took her life, leaving her children.

 

So friggen' unnecessary. You fail to address why this was so necessary. You fail to address how the supposed loving father of these five children, took his responsibilities seriously to his family, enough that he would allow himself to break his bonds of matrimony and practice infidelity.

 

Don't tell me he couldn't control himself due to lurrrvvvveee... Give me a break.

 

Now he has all the responsibility, doesn't he? Now his children have to live with this whole sequence of events, caused by a man who couldn't keep it zipped and a woman who would poach.

 

It makes me sick to my stomach. The entire affair.

[OWoman]

This mother must have known how it would affect her children, but she still went through with it.

 

In the same way that the H, had he known his BW would kill herself, may well have made a different choice, I honestly think the BW probably didn't "know" how her children would be affected (or was in a state of consciousness where her fears about the life they'd have, living with her in those circumstances, crowded out any rational conception of the life they'd have without her). If she really thought, "Gee, I can really wreck my kids' lives for good, but hey, I won't have to be around there to see it" one could perhaps say she made a fully rational, informed choice but I don't believe many suicides are in that space when they choose to do what they do.

 

I'm not denying responsibility for either H (for his choosing to have an affair) or for BW (for choosing to kill herself) but I am questioning an assumption that they did so with full knowledge of what the consequences would be.

[dropdeadlegs]

Certainly in this case that is a fair equation.

 

The drunk driver exercises the same free will that a cheater does.

 

Interesting, to say the least. And I'm not particularly religious.

I feel it is important to add that the suicidal mother also exercised her free will.

 

Nobody meant for this tragedy to happen.

 

It is just that, a sad tragedy. Yes, all involved made their decisions, yet none expected the outcome, and I assume the suicidal wife did not expect the outcome, either. Surely she would not have had children with that intent.

 

Sadly it is the children who will suffer the consequences.

[malaclypse]

You go OW. You go and point the finger at someone who was obviously in so much pain from his cheating, that she took her life, leaving her children.

 

So friggen' unnecessary. You fail to address why this was so necessary. You fail to address how the supposed loving father of these five children, took his responsibilities seriously to his family, enough that he would allow himself to break his bonds of matrimony and practice infidelity.

 

Don't tell me he couldn't control himself due to lurrrvvvveee... Give me a break.

 

 

No one says this was necessary. Yes, of course the H made a mistake when he cheated on her. No one here will deny this.

 

However, there's such a thing as personal responsibility.

 

The cheating is the responsibilty of the H.

The suicide is the responsibility of the W.

 

Now he has all the responsibility, doesn't he? Now his children have to live with this whole sequence of events, caused by a man who couldn't keep it zipped and a woman who would poach.

 

The suicide was not caused by the man who couldn't keep his pants zipped, only the betrayal and infidelity. No blame-shifting.

 

The suicide was planned and executed by the wife.

 

 

"You made me do that", says the devil.

[Trialbyfire]

However, there's such a thing as personal responsibility.

 

The cheating is the responsibilty of the H.

The suicide is the responsibility of the W.

So you feel that people committing suicide are rational beings?

[Virgo1982]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. How will they live with that? Those poor children. My heart aches for them.

 

She seemed happier yesterday then I had seen her in months.

 

That's either because she had made up her mind to go through with her plan or let her mind wander again.

 

The OW is saying those things because she feels guilty. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how *********s express guilt. That does not excuse her words.

[OWoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFaithfulWife

She seemed happier yesterday then I had seen her in months.

 

 

That's either because she had made up her mind to go through with her plan or let her mind wander again.

 

Most suicides don't happen in the very pit of depression - people then tend to feel paralysed, unable to act. They happen as moods start to lift, and action becomes possible - but the view of the world as a "better place" has not yet caught up.

 

Where people are on "suicide watch" it's also the lifting of the mood that makes the watchers relax their guard - they think things are on the up, the risk is less - and are then caught off-guard when it happens.

[malaclypse]

So you feel that people committing suicide are rational beings?

 

It doesn't matter. Some are, some are not.

In this case, I think it's obvious she was not.

 

Still, she was an adult human. There are a thousand ways she could have reacted to the A, but she chose one which was sure to maximize suffering for her children.

 

I don't really want to argue anymore about this, it's a tragedy, it's very sad this had to happen, and I feel sorry for the kids.

[Virgo1982]

So you feel that people committing suicide are rational beings?

 

This reminds me of the thread in the OW/OM forum where the W flips out and tells her kids her H was "f*cking 'So and So." The general consensus was that the W should have been strong for her children. If you were the child of these two individuals, how would you feel about yourself?

 

As her friend, I hope you stay in their lives and support them emotionally. They are going to need all the love they can get.

[Trialbyfire]

malaclypse, suicide is viewed as a mental health issue throughout the medical community.

 

http://suicideandmentalhealthassociationinternational.org/

 

So...is someone with a mental health issues, responsible for their actions?

 

We're not talking about suicide bombers, although I wonder about their sanity as well.

[Trialbyfire]

It doesn't matter. Some are, some are not.

In this case, I think it's obvious she was not.

 

Still, she was an adult human. There are a thousand ways she could have reacted to the A, but she chose one which was sure to maximize suffering for her children.

 

I don't really want to argue anymore about this, it's a tragedy, it's very sad this had to happen, and I feel sorry for the kids.

You cannot allocate blame to someone who isn't sane, according to the law.