The Wife Killed herself today

[Lizzie60]

OWoman:

 

No flames here...I agree with everything that you said...

 

 

Hey... great minds think alike... same time...almost same words..

[luvmy2ns]

James I'm sure you've read enough posts here on these boards alone to know there's NEVER a good time to leave - MMs use that all the time to their OW... "just until the kids finish school... college... their grandchildren finish college..." Her mother's impending loss may have been long in coming, or a chronic thing with still years to drag on - this we don't know. It may itself have contributed to the W's withdrawal from the M which led the MM to seek solace in the arms of the OW - this we don't know. His timing may have been because HE was at the end of his fuse, and had to leave then or lose it totally - this we don't know. Your ASSUMPTIONS about his timing and alleged lack of compassion say volumes about your reading of the situation. Others, from other perspectives, read it differently.

 

 

 

You're equating his choosing to end a marriage that was not working for him with him causing the death of his wife and destroying the future of his children? That's a pretty big leap to make! When I left my husband he also threatened, and attempted, to commit suicide - as he'd done before I left. I refused to be manipulated into staying because a marriage based on fear and pity, underscored by manipulation and threats, was not something I wanted any part of and was not something I could justify bringing up children within. Leaving was the best thing I could have done, and had he killed himself I would have placed the responsibility where it belonged - with his inability to deal with his issues and to face up to his responsibilities.

 

The H in this post, like everyone else who knew the BW - INCLUDING HER CHILDREN when they learn what happened - is going to be beating himself up about this, imagining what he could have done differently to prevent it. Maybe something, maybe nothing, we'll never know - but even if there was something, my question would be - would the price not have been too high? If remaining trapped in an unhappy marriage with a mentally unstable woman dangling suicide over his head as a constant threat is what it would take, then I'd question whether he AND THE CHILDREN are perhaps not better off with the worst already having happened, and not a constant threat consuming their lives and inhibiting their behaviour.

 

OK, flame away...

 

It might have been nothing more than just being kinder about the way he left the marriage, i.e. NOT f'ing around with some other woman while he was still with her that could have helped. But cheaters don't think this way. It's all me, me, MEEEEE!!!!!!

[Owl]

Was she "dangling the threat of suicide" over him all the time?

 

Or did she just go out and do it?

 

I seriously contemplated it myself at one point during my wife's A. It wasn't any kind of "threat". I gave serious thought to how/where/when. I made plans to ensure that the kids would be taken care of. I didn't tell her or anyone else...there was no "threat" to it.

 

I couldn't see any way to live on with the pain.

 

If she wasn't 'threatening' him with this before, there's no reason to assume that this was her intent.

 

She too may have just not seen how to live with the pain.

 

I don't see how her children are better off dealing with their mother having just committed suicide rather than any number of other possible outcomes where she could have ended up with help and still be alive and there for them.

[Lizzie60]

Was she "dangling the threat of suicide" over him all the time?

 

Or did she just go out and do it?

 

I seriously contemplated it myself at one point during my wife's A. It wasn't any kind of "threat". I gave serious thought to how/where/when. I made plans to ensure that the kids would be taken care of. I didn't tell her or anyone else...there was no "threat" to it.

 

I couldn't see any way to live on with the pain.

 

If she wasn't 'threatening' him with this before, there's no reason to assume that this was her intent.

 

She too may have just not seen how to live with the pain.

 

I don't see how her children are better off dealing with their mother having just committed suicide rather than any number of other possible outcomes where she could have ended up with help and still be alive and there for them.

 

I would bet anything that she never said a word to anyone about this..

 

I never did... serious 'suicidal' people... never threat to kill themselves.. they just go and do it..

 

When you're dangling the suicide threat... you're only sending 'desperate messages' that you are unhappy... most people threatening to do it...never do it... (or very rarely do it)....

 

It's the people who never talk about it that usually succeed..

[sarme]

I simply do not know what to say. I'm pretty speechless. Its an awful tradgedy in deed. Those poor kids. And whats even sadder, it wont stop alot MM or MW from cheating either.

 

 

N0 of course it won't it is extremely unfortunately this had to end so tragically but I agree with what OW said:

 

The H in this post, like everyone else who knew the BW - INCLUDING HER CHILDREN when they learn what happened - is going to be beating himself up about this, imagining what he could have done differently to prevent it. Maybe something, maybe nothing, we'll never know - but even if there was something, my question would be - would the price not have been too high? If remaining trapped in an unhappy marriage with a mentally unstable woman dangling suicide over his head as a constant threat is what it would take, then I'd question whether he AND THE CHILDREN are perhaps not better off with the worst already having happened, and not a constant threat consuming their lives and inhibiting their behaviour.

 

This woman didn't love her H didn't love herself or her children, she was just as selfish as her H and paid him with the exact same coin she feels she was paid with. So if anything people should learn that real love does not threaten to hold someone back, real love let's it go. She sounds unstable and I doubt there would ever have been a good time for her H to leave her. We don't own people just because we marry them if you can't accept that concept you prob should not be forming romantic bonds with people.

When suicide happens blame is always shifted to those who could have contributed to a person's decision to do so because people need to find blame in others and the reality is no one is to blame for this woman's death other than herself, it was her selfish choice and now her poor children pay for the consecuences. I don't see why this should deter affairs from happening, it's unfortunate but it won't stop affairs.

[whichwayisup]

I am sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you, and your friends children. What an awful situation! Your friend must have been suffering from depression and was pushed past her emotional limit.

 

I think it's wonderful that you've taken in those kids for the week.

[Kasan]

This woman didn't love her H didn't love herself or her children, she was just as selfish as her H and paid him with the exact same coin she feels she was paid with. So if anything people should learn that real love does not threaten to hold someone back, real love let's it go. She sounds unstable and I doubt there would ever have been a good time for her H to leave her.

 

I think that this is untrue, I think that people snap because they can't deal with the pain of what they are living. We will never know the mindset of people who commit suicide, and what drives them over the edge.

 

A friend of mine's father shot himself because he didn't make it into the FBI. You and I might think it wasn't a big deal, but what was he thinking? He shot himself in the family home.

 

Several of our members who have posted, have told us some of the feelings that they felt when they contemplated suicide.

 

You and I might consider them selfish, but I think that they are tortured souls.

[Trialbyfire]

How sad.

 

I can relate to your poor friend though. I was utterly devastated when I found out my wife was cheating and had even cheated when we were engaged.

 

I spiralled into a deep depression that was so crushing, I could barely function. This went on for a year. I decided i was either going to jump off a cliff or find a way out of it. I eventually drove to the mountains and was literally flipping a mental coin in my head whether to step off or not.

 

The only thing that stopped me was thoughts of my children and what this would do to them. I also finally realized that the message of pain i wanted to send to my cheating wife would not be received, she'd already found it ok with her that I hurt from her activities.

 

As i stepped farther away from that ledge in time and space, I got angry and realized I'd invested too much in reacting to the crap she did to us. I didn't want her to have the satisfaction of thinking she was justified for doing what she did because I was suicidally depressed.

 

I snapped out of it.

 

But I know a lot of people do not and this poor friend of yours did not cope well with her world being shattered. I was one coin flip away from her fate.

That is sad. No one can empathize with the mindset of the betrayed, unless you've experienced it. Even then, different people handle life in different ways.

 

I also recall my experience, clearly. Although I wasn't suicidal at any point, I do recall being overwhelmed by pain and anger, to the point where I almost stopped eating, eating by rote more than anything else. You move through life in a haze of pain. The difference was that my ex didn't want to leave or separate, considering the affair as nothing more than a side convenience for him, to get his other unhealthy needs fed.

 

Once again, the loss of mother and respected father, will tear the childrens' world apart. The children will pay the price, for the supposed adults "humanity".

 

Some human failings are unforgiveable. Don't tell me that every "adult" didn't have free will. Don't tell me that the children had free will.

 

I think cheaters should be neutered or spayed.

[TogetherForever]

N0 of course it won't it is extremely unfortunately this had to end so tragically but I agree with what OW said:

 

 

 

This woman didn't love her H didn't love herself or her children, she was just as selfish as her H and paid him with the exact same coin she feels she was paid with. So if anything people should learn that real love does not threaten to hold someone back, real love let's it go. She sounds unstable and I doubt there would ever have been a good time for her H to leave her. We don't own people just because we marry them if you can't accept that concept you prob should not be forming romantic bonds with people.

When suicide happens blame is always shifted to those who could have contributed to a person's decision to do so because people need to find blame in others and the reality is no one is to blame for this woman's death other than herself, it was her selfish choice and now her poor children pay for the consecuences. I don't see why this should deter affairs from happening, it's unfortunate but it won't stop affairs.

 

 

I agree that it will not stop affairs.

So far, not one person has posted that they have ended their affair after reading this thread. Nor will they. (If the sole purpose for this thread was to have someone involved in an affair to "wise up")

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. It's all in the past now & a family is left devastated.

[luvmy2ns]

 

I think cheaters should be neutered or spayed.

 

...or labotomized.

[Trialbyfire]

...or labotomized.

Haha...same difference if you consider the dominant brain....

[OWoman]

Was she "dangling the threat of suicide" over him all the time?

 

 

Owl, I wasn't suggesting that she HAD done so: I was raising, in the minds of those left behind (speculatively) alternative scenarios - the H thinking, "had I stayed, etc etc" and whether the costs involved in that may not have been too high. Yes, clearly the best scenario would have been for her to get the help she needed, for her to have been able to recover her balance, get over the break, and for the kids to have TWO happy, stable parents (and possibly a happy, stable step-parent or two) instead of one devastated one and a heap of questions hanging in the air. I really don't imagine there'd be any debate over that?

[EnigmasMuse]

How terrible!

 

No one really knows the whole story for sure. But her h's affair and leaving might have been the final straw for her, and could be the main reason she committed suicide. I don't know if it was the whole reason or not. I would think that it could be there were other contributing factors that may have played a role in why she felt as hopeless as she did and felt the need to take her life. Perhaps theres alot more to the story than others really know.

[JamesM]

James I'm sure you've read enough posts here on these boards alone to know there's NEVER a good time to leave -.

 

You are correct. And I agree that there is never a good time to leave. However, as a guy who has contemplated affairs and leaving, I think that leaving prior to the affair or attempting some sort of reconciliation or at least giving the wife a warning...all of these would have made a difference. If I read correctly (according to the poster, I am well aware), the BW had no clue he felt like quitting the marriage.

 

His timing may have been because HE was at the end of his fuse, and had to leave then or lose it totally - this we don't know. Your ASSUMPTIONS about his timing and alleged lack of compassion say volumes about your reading of the situation. Others, from other perspectives, read it differently.

 

My only concern/question is...if he was at the end of his fuse, why had he not conveyed this to his wife?

 

And yes, I am making assumptions here as is everyone else...based on their own experiences...because we do not have the complete story. I have no doubt that others would read differently.

 

You're equating his choosing to end a marriage that was not working for him with him causing the death of his wife and destroying the future of his children?

 

Yes.

 

That's a pretty big leap to make!

 

No. This marriage that was not working for him? Did anyone else know besides his mistress? To me I empathize with him being unhappy, but I do not sympathize with him having an affair and leaving the marriage without making a big stink that the marriage is not working. "Well, he tried, but she would not listen." No, according to the original post, she did not know he was leaving. As for the children, his actions caused her suicide...plain and simple. As a result of his actions, his children have no mother, and now have lost a stable family life. His wife's reaction to his betrayal cannot be viewed as some separate action not related to his rejection. Whether her reaction is extreme...I think that is not in question, but did his decision to have an affair, break his commitment, and leave cause a reaction? Yes.

 

Should he feel guilty or be blamed for her suicide? That is a different question with a different answer.

 

When I left my husband he also threatened, and attempted, to commit suicide - as he'd done before I left.

 

It sounds like your husband had a forewarning. This wife does not appear to have had one.

 

Leaving was the best thing I could have done, and had he killed himself I would have placed the responsibility where it belonged - with his inability to deal with his issues and to face up to his responsibilities.

 

I agree. But the issue here is not the same. It sounds like you are making assumptions here...as am I.

 

Maybe something, maybe nothing, we'll never know - but even if there was something, my question would be - would the price not have been too high? If remaining trapped in an unhappy marriage with a mentally unstable woman dangling suicide over his head as a constant threat is what it would take, then I'd question whether he AND THE CHILDREN are perhaps not better off with the worst already having happened, and not a constant threat consuming their lives and inhibiting their behaviour.

 

Again, are you not making assumptions? With the assumptions you add to the story, I could agree with you. But when I read the first post here, none of those deatils are told to us. Was this wife suicidal? Had she known her husband had a mistress? Did she had a foreknowledge that he was unhappy enough to break his commitment to his family and leave? We do not know.

 

The question becomes...did he even try to do anything to make his marriage happier? Or did he find a new woman and then become unhappy with his wife? But yes, let's suppose he did try to reconcile. And it failed. Then he could leave knowing he had tried. And when he faces his children, can he now say that he tried everything to fix the family for their sakes? Or will he find himself mumbling some reason for his affair and their mother's suicide? Has there been evidence to them that she could have committed this tragedy or is it totally unexpected to the husband and children? We do not know.

 

I think (and yes, this is all my opinion) that if something could have been done to prevent this tragedy, then the price is not too high unless it is another tragedy.

 

OK, flame away...

 

Never. I have seen too many of your posts and have noticed the wisdom you have added based on your experiences. Simply because I differ on this one is no reason to disrespect you or your opinions.

[michelangelo]

I'm not so sure people really understand what occurs when a person experiences an emotionally traumatic even in their life, or worse, stack multiple traumatic events.

 

A negative shift in brain chemistry happens that effects the thinking process for the worse. Some people are strong enough to cope with it. Others clearly are not. They are as sick and pained as someone who is in physical pain from an injury or cancer.

 

The need for connection to a rejecting spouse is humiliating, agitating, angering, and frustrating. Gasping for what was, or what you think was leads to a realization that what was, never really was.

 

The bursting of the bubble, the tearing away of the illusion of what you thought was a deep connection -- love -- destroys people who feel this immensely and then know that their spouse does not.

[american-woman]

Please post as you seemed to have dropped off here

[OWoman]

I agree that it will not stop affairs.

So far, not one person has posted that they have ended their affair after reading this thread. Nor will they. (If the sole purpose for this thread was to have someone involved in an affair to "wise up")

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. It's all in the past now & a family is left devastated.

 

I discussed this thread with my MM after reading it. He spoke to his kids on the way to counselling, and they discussed during counselling their mother's suicidal behaviour when MM wouldn't take her back those years ago. A great deal of anger in the session, as well as fear that she might try again - successfully this time. It surfaced a real concern for them which they'd been too afraid to voice. So that's an unanticipated spin-off of this thread, and a good one.

[PandorasBox]

Wow! It almost comes across as a story out of a book or something. Very good desription of everything that took place from beginning to end, thats why it reminds me of a book.

 

Anyway, I'm so sorry that it all came down to that for her and her family.

[sarme]

Owl, I wasn't suggesting that she HAD done so: I was raising, in the minds of those left behind (speculatively) alternative scenarios - the H thinking, "had I stayed, etc etc" and whether the costs involved in that may not have been too high. Yes, clearly the best scenario would have been for her to get the help she needed, for her to have been able to recover her balance, get over the break, and for the kids to have TWO happy, stable parents (and possibly a happy, stable step-parent or two) instead of one devastated one and a heap of questions hanging in the air. I really don't imagine there'd be any debate over that?

 

 

None whatsoever!

 

The thing is that I can see why this story was posted here in this area of the forum and in the earlier posts people saying "well I hope people will learn from this...." the only thing one learns from this is that some people are selfish and don't care who they hurt, they are emotionally unstable an cannot handle life's hardships or obstacles. In life we will all be faced with things we cannot overcome, look at death alone, we are built to overcome death of a loved one, these are the people who gave birth to us who share the same blood as we do, who guided us and gave us unconditional love from the first day we set foot into the world, and yet we are programmed to overcome the death of those people. So in life when faced with a hard pill to swallow we always have choices and some people don't think further than what is convenient for them. All this story does for me is show me that as much as the man who cheated in this story was selfish, the woman who was cheated on here an proceeded to take her onw life was equally as selfish.

 

This woman thought she would get back at her H for the betrayal neglecting what she would do to the people who really count, her own children and her family. The H will be devestated by this event but in time he will overcome this and accept that he had no power over her own choices, he is just a man she met along he way on her life path we are people who connect along the way and fall in love and stay together or move on. The children and family are the people who will really suffer this in the long run. I think the woman acted stupidly and she was not strong enough to deal with life's ups and downs, and it is unfortunate but if anything this story teaches us that some people are stronger than others, affairs will still continue.

 

On a last note if I had been "scared" off by thinking that an A could take a person's life away I would not have met the man of my dreams and the love of my life because the fact of the matter is affairs don't take away lives, people take away their own lives and there is always a choice. When you commit suicide no matter what the theme is or the reason is for doing so it is the ultimate selfish act, in my books it is the most unforgiveable act one can take because it affects so many people and there is no turning back from that you ruin the lives of so many people and no human being deserves that. You will recover from the pain of an affair or a lost marriage but as a child or parent who's mother/daughter ended her life to escape, you will never fully recover from that pain. It makes me so angry people could be that selfish. What her H did pails in comparisson to what she did.

 

SO if anything I hope any BSs reading this out there learn that no matter what if your choice is to take your own life then you are doing something tripple worse than what was done to you. I hope you will stop to think before you act irrationally because your children and family should not have to pay for your lack of stability in dealing with life's unfortunate events.

[luvmy2ns]

I discussed this thread with my MM after reading it. He spoke to his kids on the way to counselling, and they discussed during counselling their mother's suicidal behaviour when MM wouldn't take her back those years ago. A great deal of anger in the session, as well as fear that she might try again - successfully this time. It surfaced a real concern for them which they'd been too afraid to voice. So that's an unanticipated spin-off of this thread, and a good one.

 

But your MM's wife knows what's going on. She's not being blindsided like this guy's wife apparently was. It's good of you two to help his kids along like this in working toward your goal.

[luvmy2ns]

None whatsoever!

 

The thing is that I can see why this story was posted here in this area of the forum and in the earlier posts people saying "well I hope people will learn from this...." the only thing one learns from this is that some people are selfish and don't care who they hurt, they are emotionally unstable an cannot handle life's hardships or obstacles.

 

So interesting that the only person in this scenario labeled as "selfish" here is the dead woman. Nice.

[PLAYBRAT]

With no further input from the OP I just HOPE this isnt a sick prank.

[TogetherForever]

I discussed this thread with my MM after reading it. He spoke to his kids on the way to counselling, and they discussed during counselling their mother's suicidal behaviour when MM wouldn't take her back those years ago. A great deal of anger in the session, as well as fear that she might try again - successfully this time. It surfaced a real concern for them which they'd been too afraid to voice. So that's an unanticipated spin-off of this thread, and a good one.

 

OW,

I think I will discuss this thread with my s/o also.

After all the years we've been together, it never entered my mind that she could possibly do the same as in this thread.

TBC...........

[OWoman]

You are correct. And I agree that there is never a good time to leave. However, as a guy who has contemplated affairs and leaving, I think that leaving prior to the affair or attempting some sort of reconciliation or at least giving the wife a warning...all of these would have made a difference. If I read correctly (according to the poster, I am well aware), the BW had no clue he felt like quitting the marriage.

 

 

 

My only concern/question is...if he was at the end of his fuse, why had he not conveyed this to his wife?

 

OK, some more speculation here, since we don't know - perhaps he had? Perhaps he THOUGHT he had? As we've also heard before, what one person THINKS they're conveying, and what another HEARS, are often different. MM says to OW, I told W the M was over. OW hears, MM told W he was leaving (and starts making space in her closet for his clothes). MM in fact said to W, this isn't working for me. W heard, H thinks I've put on weight.

 

I know my MM's wife has STILL not "heard" that he's choosing to be with someone else - despite him having answered directly "yes" when she asked (after he'd told her himself that he wasn't prepared to give the M YET ANOTHER go and had moved on to someone else) in front of witnesses. She persists in believing that it's his way of "forcing" her into MC so that the MC can blame her for why everything broke "again". I'm as guilty as the next one for using my own experience as a lens for viewing this tragedy, but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that's to me at least as compelling an explanation as any other I've seen offered.

 

We don't know. We can only speculate. The OP may choose to add more info - if she has more, it seems to have taken her by surprise as much as anyone - which sheds more light, or she may be too busy dealing with the fallout to prioritise feeding our curiosity. But for now, this is what we have to go on.

 

I'm starting to ramble (more than normal!) so I'll spare you engaging with the rest of your post, save saying thanks for this:

 

Never. I have seen too many of your posts and have noticed the wisdom you have added based on your experiences. Simply because I differ on this one is no reason to disrespect you or your opinions.

[PandorasBox]

With no further input from the OP I just HOPE this isnt a sick prank.

 

 

This was kind of my thinking as well. I'm not saying by no means, that this kind of thing doesn't happen, becasue it does. It also happens where wives will go after OW and get them too. It just came across as a very well written post to kind of get a point across about what could happen.