The Wife Killed herself today

[OpenBook]

Do you know for fact the wife could discern right from wrong when she committed suicide?

 

No. And you do not know "for a fact" that she could NOT discern it at the time. She certainly seemed to be rational to the OP the day before it happened.

 

It sounds like you would have thoroughly enjoyed being the defense lawyer for that woman in Texas who drowned her children in the bathtub.

 

Any mother with ANY sense of a mother's instinct would never have acted in such a destructive manner to her children, regardless of her own pain. (And NO MAN is worth that kind of pain... but that's another subject!)

 

Contrary to what is still acceptable and even honorable in some societies today, there is NO HONOR WHATSOEVER in suicide. It's the coward's way out... the ultimate selfish act that leaves an enormous burden to their loved ones who are left behind to clean up the mess.

[Trialbyfire]

Infidelity has not caused all of these other people to committ suicide. It may cause bitterness and resentment, but many stick around to spread the "cheer."

 

You're giving her a pass because there was infidelity involved. I don't know what's up with that, but you would be flaming her if there hadn't been any infidelity involved. Parents are supposed to be strong for their children. He was weak for having an affair and she was weak for committing suicide. He has a chance to grow. She does not.

Virgo, do you believe that someone of sane mind would commit suicide and desert 5 children?

[Trialbyfire]

No. And you do not know "for a fact" that she could NOT discern it at the time. She certainly seemed to be rational to the OP the day before it happened.

 

It sounds like you would have thoroughly enjoyed being the defense lawyer for that woman in Texas who drowned her children in the bathtub.

 

Any mother with ANY sense of a mother's instinct would never have acted in such a destructive manner to her children, regardless of her own pain. (And NO MAN is worth that kind of pain... but that's another subject!)

 

Contrary to what is still acceptable and even honorable in some societies today, there is NO HONOR WHATSOEVER in suicide. It's the coward's way out... the ultimate selfish act that leaves an enormous burden to their loved ones who are left behind to clean up the mess.

But of course. It's the fault of a woman who's not sane. In her insanity, she was fully culpable for her actions of killing herself.

 

I suppose the same could be said for all the people who are undergoing treatment instead of going to jail.

 

Our entire judicial system is at fault here and doesn't know better than a few OW/OW on a message board.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

 

Contrary to what is still acceptable and even honorable in some societies today, there is NO HONOR WHATSOEVER in suicide. It's the coward's way out... the ultimate selfish act that leaves an enormous burden to their loved ones who are left behind to clean up the mess.

Kind of like afairs in a way ha? selfish act that leaves enormous burdens on loved ones children ext. Who are left behind after familys are destroyed ooops sorry about getting side tracked there back to topic by all means..

[Virgo1982]

Yup, sane mothers kill themselves and desert 5 children.

 

Right and men want to stay M to a woman who is insane?

 

Again, his question states, was she responsible for her having the affair if he is responsible for her committing suicide?

 

Are you really telling me that you believe this woman was stable and happy before he had an affair? That as soon as he cheated, her insanity switch flipped on?

 

I don't buy it. How did any BS survive their situations? Strength and a reasonably sound mind, faith for some. Regardless, I believe she would have went to jail for killing her OW or the H. So why is there no fault in killing herself? If you able to speak to her, before she went through with it, what would you say? Would you tell her to go ahead and do it because he cheated? No, you would give her all the reasons why it is wrong.

[Trialbyfire]

Right and men want to stay M to a woman who is insane?

 

Again, his question states, was she responsible for her having the affair if he is responsible for her committing suicide?

 

Are you really telling me that you believe this woman was stable and happy before he had an affair? That as soon as he cheated, her insanity switch flipped on?

 

I don't buy it. How did any BS survive their situations? Strength and a reasonably sound mind, faith for some. Regardless, I believe she would have went to jail for killing her OW or the H. So why is there no fault in killing herself? If you able to speak to her, before she went through with it, what would you say? Would you tell her to go ahead and do it because he cheated? No, you would give her all the reasons why it is wrong.

You still haven't answered my question.

[Trialbyfire]

Anyways, I'm tired and sick to my stomach over this.

 

It pisses me off that people would want to point the finger at a deceased woman who suffered so much pain that she was willing to commit suicide and leave her 5 children to the ministrations of a poor father and husband. I truly hope his choice of partner, the OW is willing to put forth all the love and care these 5 children will need, because she loves her cheater so much.

[Virgo1982]

Anyways, I'm tired and sick to my stomach over this.

 

It pisses me off that people would want to point the finger at a deceased woman who suffered so much pain that she was willing to commit suicide and leave her 5 children to the ministrations of a poor father and husband. I truly hope his choice of partner, the OW is willing to put forth all the love and care these 5 children will need, because she loves her cheater so much.

 

Nobody's saying she was a horrible human being. BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS- A HUMAN BEING!!!! If an OW commits suicide because she's so messed up over a MM, you'd say, "he wasn't even hers. what was that homewrecker thinking?" Me being an xOW would not be sick to my stomach. It would be the truth.

[Virgo1982]

Want to take that all the way back to the birth of the OW? That she should never have been born.

 

I think the cheater should have been a real father from the get-go, putting his children first, before all. He should not have allowed himself to break the bonds of matrimony and practiced infidelity.

 

I'll answer your question when you give malaclypse's question a yes or no answer...

[malaclypse]

Anyways, I'm tired and sick to my stomach over this.

 

It pisses me off that people would want to point the finger at a deceased woman who suffered so much pain that she was willing to commit suicide and leave her 5 children to the ministrations of a poor father and husband. I truly hope his choice of partner, the OW is willing to put forth all the love and care these 5 children will need, because she loves her cheater so much.

 

Trialbyfire:

 

I guess you are a BS yourself and therefore can empathize with all the pain and suffering the W was going through.

 

But this does not make her a victim of her suicide.

She killed herself. Her choice. She deserted her kids. Her choice.

 

Sorry if this sounds heartless.

[OpenBook]

Nobody's saying she was a horrible human being. BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS- A HUMAN BEING!!!! If an OW commits suicide because she's so messed up over a MM, you'd say, "he wasn't even hers. what was that homewrecker thinking?" Me being an xOW would not be sick to my stomach. It would be the truth.

 

Speak for yourself Virgo! I think she WAS a horrible human being. She did a horrible, horrible thing to her own children... left them with a heavy, sick burden that they did NOT choose and did NOT deserve -- and they will carry it with them for the rest of their lives.

[Trialbyfire]

I'll answer your question when you give malaclypse's question a yes or no answer...

I'm out of this thread since everyone is running around CYAing themselves, instead of accepting that they are also culpable in their actions.

[Virgo1982]

I'm out of this thread since everyone is running around CYAing themselves, instead of accepting that they are also culpable in their actions.

 

No, CYAing is not the issue. However, if we were to look self-righteous up in the dictionary, your avatar would be right next to the definition. No opinion is acceptable if it isn't your own. And you will argue like a lawyer to win a case instead of coming to an understanding. I don't completely agree with you or OpenBook, but I'm not leaving. You're just not right about everything. A statement you can't deny...

[malaclypse]

I'm out of this thread since everyone is running around CYAing themselves, instead of accepting that they are also culpable in their actions.

 

She left and said "look what you made me do."

 

Hmm.

[OpenBook]

I'm out of this thread since everyone is running around CYAing themselves, instead of accepting that they are also culpable in their actions.

 

And by the same token, OW/OM's could certainly make the EXACT SAME CASE for the BS's on this board who claim it wasn't their fault that the state of their own M's led their spouse to cheat on them.

[Virgo1982]

Trialbyfire:

 

I guess you are a BS yourself and therefore can empathize with all the pain and suffering the W was going through.

 

But this does not make her a victim of her suicide.

She killed herself. Her choice. She deserted her kids. Her choice.

 

Sorry if this sounds heartless.

 

It sounds like the truth. I feel empathy for everyone, but most of all, the children. I don't know if the H deserves to come outside to go to work and find his W in the car for having an affair. I don't know if the answer to infidelity is insanity and suicide. I don't know if her kids really need their mother or if even thought about them. I don't know if they'll sit around and ponder these questions like a bunch of strangers who don't even know them are pondering them. My God those kids might try to take on of their own lives.

 

To be sick to your stomach for a woman who took her own life and left 5 children instead of focusing on the children is beyond me. I just don't understand. But you Malaclypse are definitely an OW trying to wrestle with your guilt. And TBF's experiences have nothing to do with her view on the matter.

[Virgo1982]

She left and said "look what you made me do."

 

Hmm.

 

New Disorder

 

SVS:Self-righteous Victim Syndrome.

[dropdeadlegs]

I'm not an OW or a BS.

 

Do you people really think any of this is so simple?

 

Virgo1982 has repeatedly considered the children. That's where the sympathy should belong!

 

The cheating man and his woman have their shame. The suicidal mother shares in the blame. But where do the children come in?

 

Who are the real victims of any of this? The children, of course.

[Virgo1982]

And by the same token, OW/OM's could certainly make the EXACT SAME CASE for the BS's on this board who claim it wasn't their fault that the state of their own M's led their spouse to cheat on them.

 

Malaclypse tried that. She wouldn't answer the question with a yes or no. And when I told her I'd answer her question when she answered his question with a yes or no, she was outta hea.

 

 

 

See...

I'm out of this thread since everyone is running around CYAing themselves, instead of accepting that they are also culpable in their actions.

[OpenBook]

Malaclypse tried that. She wouldn't answer the question with a yes or no. And when I told her I'd answer her question when she answered his question with a yes or no, she was outta hea.

 

 

 

See...

 

Right, sorry. I agree with you and Malaclypse.

[malaclypse]

But you Malaclypse are definitely an OW trying to wrestle with your guilt.

 

Hey Virgo, I'm definitely NOT an OW, since I am male.

 

I am an OM, but I don't feel guilty.

 

I am a strong believer in personal responsibility.

I never cheated on any of my girlfriends. I told my MW's husband about everything (EA) a week before I slept with her. I'm in NC now because MW didn't want to leave her H and I didn't want the cheating to continue. If I would have known that she lied to me when she told me how broken her marriage was, how close to leaving she was, I would have never slept with her.

[Trimmer]

There's so much fear here. Everyone entrenching themselves in their positions, focusing on who is right and who is wrong, who deserves all the blame, because that will make it all right and safe and tidy, yes? If we convince ourselves that we are right, that we have all the issues of blame and responsibility figured out and assigned, then we'll be insulated from our fear and the horror of what has happened.

 

I just try to remember that tonight and forever more, 5 kids will be going to bed without their mother, and that a father - whatever else his transgressions as a spouse - will have to do his best to help them through it. A family is not just broken, but devastated.

 

I'm just sad, and I don't find it necessary to run to the legal dictionary and start defining insanity and personal responsibility or to poke at the bodies, living or dead. That's for another day, for someone other than me.

 

Tragically, the ones with the standing to affix "blame" are the kids, and they will be stuggling to figure that one out for a long time to come. You think we're going to resolve it for them with a bit of 4th-hand armchair quarterbacking?

 

Can we just have a little respect for them, here? Don't be afraid to just be sad, and not have to lash out to cover it up.

 

Virgo - I would hope any decent human being would step up, but you're clearly a good soul. Regardless of what happens down the road, you are an anchor for them - perhaps their only one, at the moment. You are a very important person to them, and you have my deepest respect and my wishes for great strength in the coming days.

[Virgo1982]

I'm not an OW or a BS.

 

Do you people really think any of this is so simple?

 

Virgo1982 has repeatedly considered the children. That's where the sympathy should belong!

 

The cheating man and his woman have their shame. The suicidal mother shares in the blame. But where do the children come in?

 

Who are the real victims of any of this? The children, of course.

 

Thank you. That's most of what I've been trying to say. We were all children once. When we become adults, we realize that we have to heal ourselves and be responsible and mature. Those children will have a lot more to settle than the average adult when they grow up because their parents never did. However- I still empathize with everyone involved who could not forsee the profound level of devastation each of their acts caused.

[Virgo1982]

Hey Virgo, I'm definitely NOT an OW, since I am male.

 

I am an OM, but I don't feel guilty.

 

I am a strong believer in personal responsibility.

I never cheated on any of my girlfriends. I told my MW's husband about everything (EA) a week before I slept with her. I'm in NC now because MW didn't want to leave her H and I didn't want the cheating to continue. If I would have known that she lied to me when she told me how broken her marriage was, how close to leaving she was, I would have never slept with her.

 

I knew you were a guy, but I didn't know you were an OM. Problems solved from avoiding their kind altogether. One thing TBF and I can agree on...

 

Also, that comment about feeling guilty took me by surprise. When I read the headline, I thought, "wow, how unusual..."

[OpenBook]

There's so much fear here. Everyone entrenching themselves in their positions, focusing on who is right and who is wrong, who deserves all the blame, because that will make it all right and safe and tidy, yes? If we convince ourselves that we are right, that we have all the issues of blame and responsibility figured out and assigned, then we'll be insulated from our fear and the horror of what has happened.

 

I just try to remember that tonight and forever more, 5 kids will be going to bed without their mother, and that a father - whatever else his transgressions as a spouse - will have to do his best to help them through it. A family is not just broken, but devastated.

 

I'm just sad, and I don't find it necessary to run to the legal dictionary and start defining insanity and personal responsibility or to poke at the bodies, living or dead. That's for another day, for someone other than me.

 

Tragically, the ones with the standing to affix "blame" are the kids, and they will be stuggling to figure that one out for a long time to come. You think we're going to resolve it for them with a bit of 4th-hand armchair quarterbacking?

 

Can we just have a little respect for them, here? Don't be afraid to just be sad, and not have to lash out to cover it up.

 

Trimmer, I happen to agree with you on most of this. But I think it's vitally important for these issues to be brought into the light of day and debated -- by ALL of us, even if we vehemently disagree with each other -- in the hopes that it may somehow help prevent such a tragedy from happening to someone else. Isn't that the core purpose of LoveShack anyway??

 

Virgo - I would hope any decent human being would step up, but you're clearly a good soul. Regardless of what happens down the road, you are an anchor for them - perhaps their only one, at the moment. You are a very important person to them, and you have my deepest respect and my wishes for great strength in the coming days.

 

Yes, I also think Virgo is a good soul... and would make an excellent anchor for anyone. But who are you referring to when you say "an anchor for them"?? I am not aware of Virgo's personal situation, and I do not believe she is involved in the situation originally posted.