Should I settle for the sake of kids and commitment if marriage is lame or get help?

[whichwayisup]

Again, OW is done. Outside of professional work. No texting, emailing, calling. She understands, is cool, and everything is fine. She'll be there if after counseling, my marriage falls apart but I am giving it a full effort.

 

How do you know this? That the OW will wait for you...That she'll even want you if your marriage doesn't work out? This means you've talked to the OW, told her you're fixing your marriage, but keeping the door open a crack for her, just incase...You cannot do that to her, let alone to your wife! Your marriage won't last if you have the OW in the background waiting for the big escape.

[OWoman]

How do you know this? That the OW will wait for you...That she'll even want you if your marriage doesn't work out? This means you've talked to the OW, told her you're fixing your marriage, but keeping the door open a crack for her, just incase...You cannot do that to her, let alone to your wife! Your marriage won't last if you have the OW in the background waiting for the big escape.

 

Anyone else here find this "Plan B" thinking downright insulting - to BOTH women? To the OW, who's been kept on as some kind of understudy in case the lead actress falls ill on the night and can't perform, and the W, who's being auditioned but if she's not up to scratch, there's someone else waiting in the wings... Sorry MC but I think your attitude totally sucks! Both these women would do well to dump you if that's how little you think of them!

[whichwayisup]

Oh it is insulting..The thing is, he's a MM and no different than many of the MM that the OW here are involved with. He gives them broken promises, and if the OW in MC's case loves him, she'll wait...I mean how many OW have posted here and are waiting for their MM to leave their wives? MC's situation should open afew eyes.....i hope.

[Owl]

This 'attitude' is pretty much poster-child for most WS's that I've seen.

 

My wife went through this too. I was her "back up plan" if her relationship with OM fell through.

 

It was when she realized that I wouldn't stand for that that she started to seriously consider what she stood to lose if she continued with her plan of action.

[serial muse]

Anyone else here find this "Plan B" thinking downright insulting - to BOTH women? To the OW, who's been kept on as some kind of understudy in case the lead actress falls ill on the night and can't perform, and the W, who's being auditioned but if she's not up to scratch, there's someone else waiting in the wings... Sorry MC but I think your attitude totally sucks! Both these women would do well to dump you if that's how little you think of them!

 

Totally agree. But while he's willing to acknowledge that an affair wasn't a great idea, I don't think MC is willing to acknowledge that he's also partly responsible for the communication breakdown with his wife. That, apparently, is mostly her fault.

 

Doesn't bode well for reconciliation. But I truly hope the OW doesn't wait around. I can't honestly imagine why she would, unless you're holding out hope to her, MC. OW as Plan B = still dangling on a string. As in, not over.

[OWoman]

Oh it is insulting..The thing is, he's a MM and no different than many of the MM that the OW here are involved with. He gives them broken promises, and if the OW in MC's case loves him, she'll wait...I mean how many OW have posted here and are waiting for their MM to leave their wives? MC's situation should open afew eyes.....i hope.

 

WWIU I think there's a difference between a MM who's "on the fence" as reboot calls it, unable to make a call one way or the other, and one who's made the call to can the OW and work on his M... but keeps the OW on hold just in case. Perhaps I've missed it, but I've not seen many of those around here. At least, not where the OW has been TOLD that she's been canned but kept on hold as "Plan B", though there may well be cases where that's in the MM's mind but he's just not telling the OW where she stands on that, trying to keep her hopes up while he "thinks it through".

 

I think it's also different where the OW detects unfinished business with the MM and his M, and sends him back to sort it out - that is the OW making the call and exercising some choice, not the MM pressing the pause button while multitasking elsewhere.

 

I can't speak for anyone else - OW or BW - but no way would I put up with that kind of thing from ANY guy!

[OWoman]

This 'attitude' is pretty much poster-child for most WS's that I've seen.

 

My wife went through this too. I was her "back up plan" if her relationship with OM fell through.

 

It was when she realized that I wouldn't stand for that that she started to seriously consider what she stood to lose if she continued with her plan of action.

 

Wow Owl and you were still prepared to take her back after treating you like that? I must say you're a far better person than me - I'd be so over anyone who did that to me it would be as if we'd never met, never mind never loved!

[momma3179]

Originally Posted by maritallyconfused

I want my marriage to work out. I want my wife to be happy. She cannot be happy. We have failed to communicate for a long period of time and this is why we are in this situation. I am going to let the baby come, and I am going to get all of this (minus OW info, because it is irrelevant) and see if we can rebuild and get that spark back.. If not, I will move on. I cannot settle. She deserves more. I deserve more. It will be with or without OW.

 

 

I have an issue with the "why WE are in this situation". How is it a "we" when your wife is unaware of the OW and how you feel? I have a feeling that you are the type of guy that keeps his mouth shut as to not rock the boat and acts as if nothing is wrong, "you are just tired" or "had a stressful day". The original situation was between the two of you. Once you acted on your impulses it became about you and you alone. Your needs, your feelings. If your marriage was as important to you as you say it is; you would have had enough respect for yourself and most importantly your wife (and the vows you made to her) to communicate to her your feelings instead of ignoring the issues and leading your wife on to think things are okay; And more importantly, you would have a better understanding of the real situation instead of disconnecting with her and looking for greener grass. You have ultimately destroyed what integrity you might have once had. Confessing your A on here must be a relief to yourself as most people only ask for advice in this situation to make excuses or find reasons to validate the actions.

 

I understand you think she is boring as an individual; wonder why? Hmm, maybe its because she is taking care of your kids all day long and cleaning house? I bet she thinks her life is pretty mundane. I would assume that when you two do talk it is about your day because you already know how her day was. I'm sure it is quite boring to hear about the mundane things she does routinely to provide your children and yourself with the comforts she has afforded you to go out on her. I honestly do not see how any person can be with someone for 18 years and not be intuitive enough to figure out what's wrong. She has to know what's going on to a certain extent but she obviously trusts you enough to think this is just a rough patch in your marriage. It seems that not only are you thinking she is a boring person in general, but that she is also stupid. I absolutely agree that you should confess everything to her so she can make an educated decision of whether YOU are worthy of the second chance that you never gave to her. If you are not honest with her and continue with your marriage you are forcing her to live a lie for things she never expected you to do.

[Owl]

Wow Owl and you were still prepared to take her back after treating you like that? I must say you're a far better person than me - I'd be so over anyone who did that to me it would be as if we'd never met, never mind never loved!

 

Owoman, I know that a lot of OP's don't believe in the "affair fog" idea, but this was a perfect example of it in my wife's case.

 

My wife is one of the most intelligent and clear thinking women I've ever known. Its one of the things that attracted me to her in the first place.

 

And she was the dumbest person I ever met in the height of her affair.

 

NO thinking ahead. NO thought to what she was saying/doing/etc... She was full of rationalizations and justifications, but had not one true "reason" for anything...which is nothing like her normal behavior.

 

Key example: When she didn't go to live with him, she was furious that "you and the kids ruined everything for me!" (the kids and I). "Now I've lost him. Why couldn't you have just let me gone to be with him and see if things would have worked out with us??? If they hadn't, I'd have come home to you!!!"

 

Like I said...this coming from one of the most rational 'thinkers' I've ever met!!!

 

I got through it because I knew it wasn't "her" talking. It was the alien from the mothership...I was just waiting for her brain to be transported down from the mothership when the alien abduction was over! :D

 

In truth, I knew that it was all emotion talking. And I knew that once she stopped feeling, and started thinking...she'd see what she'd done. And she did...and was mortified at what she'd put the kids and I through. She was caught up in the affair...she acted and sounded just like an addict angry at being in detox. EXACTLY like one. I treated her just like one too. I was caring and loving as much as I could be...and didn't reward or respond to any of her 'lashing out' behaviors at all.

 

And you see...I was her 'back up plan' because in reality, she'd never REALLY thought about the fact that she was going to have to lose me completely. She'd imagined that we'd still be best friends. She figured I'd be hurt/angry for a while, I'd move on...and be ok with things. She just didn't want to pull her head out of the fantasy long enough for a reality check.

 

While I know that some posters dont feel that my story compares to most 'cheating' cases here because the majority of my wife's emotional affair was conducted over internet and telephone calls, the dynamics all still work the same way. I've seen this same behavior in friends who have gone through this, I've seen it over and over on stories posted here and other places.

 

Just like we see here.

[OWoman]

NO thinking ahead. NO thought to what she was saying/doing/etc... She was full of rationalizations and justifications, but had not one true "reason" for anything...

 

Just like we see here.

 

SM earlier picked up on MC's unwillingness to acknowledge partial responsibility for the communication breakdown. He's certainly painted his W in a very culpable light - she's blithely happy, ignoring his pain and unhappiness, unwilling to address the issues so important to him... Yet in the next breath he describes how wonderful she is and how he loves and respects her, refusing to see the contradiction. She's either as he paints her - completely out of touch with MC and uninterested in his needs and feelings in the M (in which case why does he love and respect her if she's so heartless?) - or he's painted her with too heavy a hand to absolve himself of his own responsibility in the breakdown in the M. They can't both be true. Something doesn't gel here.

 

Also, the claims of loving her and respecting her don't gel with his actions - the A, and his refusal to come clean with her about it - are not actions which speak of love or respect. Either he doesn't love and respect her, but feels some co-dependent symbiosis which makes him not want to lose her (at least, not without Plan B firmly in place) or he'd end the A - really end the A, tell the OW it's over, go NC with her and not keep her waiting in the wings - and tell his W about it and address it in MC as part of their working things out, whether or not he put his own cosy future at risk in the process. His actions are not the actions of a loving or respectful partner towards either the OW or the W, however he rationalises them here.

[Mustang Sally]

I went 10 of my best years in a virtually sexless non romantic marriage...I am somewhat of a victim here. I am taking my lumps like a man, and we are fixing it.

Aha.

<lightbulb going on above my head>

 

THIS sounds like the real crux of your "issues," if you will.

Much, much that you have said in 3 sentences.

 

I wish you every success in reconciling your marriage.

[bentnotbroken]

Anyone else here find this "Plan B" thinking downright insulting - to BOTH women? To the OW, who's been kept on as some kind of understudy in case the lead actress falls ill on the night and can't perform, and the W, who's being auditioned but if she's not up to scratch, there's someone else waiting in the wings... Sorry MC but I think your attitude totally sucks! Both these women would do well to dump you if that's how little you think of them!

 

Like I said, I don't advocate, but in this case, I hope that poor wife has taken care of herself in every way since he isn't going to take responsibility for any of the things that he sees wrong with her. He is so full of crap, both of these women are going to get hurt. Sounds like that mm in FF situation.

[stillafool]

I think some people are more resilient and understanding than others. If she needs to, she can, or We can go get counseling....

 

If not she wont. I just do not like all the labeling and stereotyping that goes on. It does not have to be this big tragic thing.

 

I made a mistake. I am not a habitual cheater. I am not diminishing things but not EVERYONE is ready to hang themselves since they were betrayed.

 

I went 10 of my best years in a virtually sexless non romantic marriage...I am somewhat of a victim here. I am taking my lumps like a man, and we are fixing it.

 

You weren't the only one suffering for 10 years. Your wife was suffering also in a non romantic, sexless marriage. You are no more victim in your sexless marriage than your wife. I'm sure she would have loved good sex and some romance in a decade also.

[maritallyconfused]

Ladies and gentlemen. This is all a process. I see what you are all saying. That is why I am here. There is no guidebook for this mess, which I never planned on being in.

 

It is horribly painful for everyone.

 

For my wife, because I betrayed her. We are both equally and fault for this, and despite what anyone says, she is incredibly accepting and willing to move forward. We have cried for days and gotten to the root of our problems. Me not tending to her emotional needs over a long period of time, and her pulling way physically as a result. It is a vicious cycle that we are going to strive to get out of.

 

For the OW, becuase she is a good person. Smart, young, sensual, passionate, unique and funny. She knows she should not have seduced me. She feels guilty for initiating the damage to my relationship. She knows she is going to get hurt. I am trying to let her go, but she is very devoted and convinced she loves me already and feels anyone she will ever meet will be sub par (in the intangibles, aside from my marital status, etc) I feel bad for her. I need to ween her way. I should not have given in.

 

For me, because I have hurt my wife. I have damaged my 10 year marriage, and 18 year relationship. For me because I have tasted the dark side. I liken it to smoking crack. It is very addicting. I feel the same way about the other woman as she does for me. I am practically in love with her, even though I love my wife. It is a different kind of love. I would be able to cut her off, but we work together. I will see her and work closely with her, and will not be able to get around that situation because I have the job that I love and there is no way. With all that said, my wife (and I) are terrified to not have each other. We love each other very much. She is incredibly accepting and trustworthy of what has happened. I am very lucky for that. I owe her.

 

I need to let her down slowly and easily for her own good. For my own good, and for my marriage, my lifestyle, and my children.

 

I have a strange feeling if I left my wife, it WOULD workout. I do not have a crystal ball and I am not willing to throw away my marriage and all that and put my family through that. It is horrible. But I also feel I will have to settle to a certain extent, but I do not have it that bad. It is very confusing.

 

OW, also deserves someone better for her, as much as she believes I am the one. Someone closer to her age, not married, etc. She is a glutten for punishment I think. I feel bad for her, even though she is an amazing person. She has been in two other serious relationships, one was abusive, and one was a man who left for Iraq and knocked up a girl in the marines and he left her.

 

Unfortunately, I feel we are soul mates and that is a powerful thing. I can honestly say I am glad I was caught in this quagmire, because who knows how things would have turned out if it carried on for a few more months or longer. I dont know where it is going.

 

The rebuilding process has begun. My heart is heavy. Heavy for all three of us. Heavy for a possible true love that I am going to lose. Heavy for the hurt I helped cause to my wife. A woman I am commited to for better or for worse. She is a good woman. She is attractive, a good homemaker, and decent wife, and hard worker. You really cannot ask for much more. We are going to strive to tend to each others emotional and physicall needs and get better. It will be done one way or another.

 

 

 

I know my thoughts here jump around. I know what is logically the right thing to do, but I am in love with the OW.

Edited January 16, 2008 by maritallyconfused

[whichwayisup]

Since you are inlove with the OW and you have to work with her closely daily, the affair will continue because you don't want to really let her go. Your marriage, sadly, won't have a real chance to work, let alone you re-connect with your wife. You're very emotionally attached to the OW, and less attached to your wife and that will continue because there's no space between you and the OW.

 

Good luck because you're going to need it.

[bentnotbroken]

The ow seduced this older more experienced man, huh? Still you are the victem, not these two women. NPD anyone?

[StillSame]

Since you are inlove with the OW and you have to work with her closely daily, the affair will continue because you don't want to really let her go. Your marriage, sadly, won't have a real chance to work, let alone you re-connect with your wife. You're very emotionally attached to the OW, and less attached to your wife and that will continue because there's no space between you and the OW.

 

Good luck because you're going to need it.

 

 

maritallyconfused, read the above message again. Your marriage has no chance because 1)you choose to cheat, and now 2) you continue to see this OW.

 

Yes, you're going to NEED luck whatever you choose to do. If you choose this OW, do you think you can look yourself in the mirror and feel good about it? After you cheated on their mom, do you think your kids can ever be completely proud of you? Your continuing concern for the OW is disturbing. She is an adult and she made the conscious choice to be an adulterer and sleep with a married man who has kids and a pregnant wife at home. Will you ever be proud to call such XXXX your own wife?

Edited January 16, 2008 by StillSame

[maritallyconfused]

Again it is a process. I do not choose to continue to see the OW. I have to due to work. Luckily it is only for about an hour a day or less. She works for same company in a different location.

 

That does make it harder to let go.

[serial muse]

For my wife, because I betrayed her. We are both equally and fault for this

 

Nope.

 

She knows she should not have seduced me. She feels guilty for initiating the damage to my relationship. ... I feel bad for her. I need to ween her way. I should not have given in.

 

Nope.

 

For me, because I have hurt my wife. I have damaged my 10 year marriage, and 18 year relationship. For me because I have tasted the dark side. I liken it to smoking crack. It is very addicting.

 

Got it. Your wife neglected you, and the OW seduced you, and you were addicted and therefore not able to control yourself. Therefore, that makes you all equally at fault, right?

 

Nope.

 

Look, I know you're feeling defensive here. But the fact is, you aren't taking your fair share of responsibility. And that's not unusual. Few MM/MW do, at least not initially. It's always someone else's fault, they never would have acted this way had they not been driven to it, the OW/OM seduced them to the point of incapacity, they wouldn't cheat except for in this one unusual circumstance, and so forth. But the underlying message of that - the one you're telling your wife, your OW, and yourself - is that you, yourself, aren't really to blame. It was circumstance, it was seduction, it was emotional neglect.

 

But see - nope. It WAS a choice. You made a choice. And the minute you start to accept that - and then make another one, which will involve fully deciding which woman, or neither, gets your full attention - THEN you will start to move on. Not before. You will NEVER move forward until you accept your actual role in this. That means stop giving excuses. Stop shifting blame. Take it on. It's a challenge - to truly know yourself and admit your faults without fear - so embrace it. Be brave and face it head-on. Figure out why you did this, and what you need to change - about YOURSELF - to prevent it happening again.

 

Perhaps your wife, and your OW, won't say this to you, because they don't want to alienate you while you still haven't made up your mind. They BOTH still have hope, and they both still want something from you. They want you to choose them, so they're both willing to take on more blame from you than either truly deserves.

 

But we here on this anonymous message board don't have that quandary. So we're saying it. Maybe listen to us??

Edited January 16, 2008 by serial muse

[stillafool]

 

It is horribly painful for everyone.

 

For my wife, because I betrayed her. We are both equally and fault for this, and despite what anyone says, she is incredibly accepting and willing to move forward. We have cried for days and gotten to the root of our problems. Me not tending to her emotional needs over a long period of time, and her pulling way physically as a result. It is a vicious cycle that we are going to strive to get out of.

 

No you are at fault, not your wife. She is not the one who had an affair. Every marriage has ups and downs but you are suppose to talk to your spouse about your needs not chose to have an affair.

 

For the OW, becuase she is a good person. Smart, young, sensual, passionate, unique and funny. She knows she should not have seduced me. She feels guilty for initiating the damage to my relationship. She knows she is going to get hurt.

 

This is not the OW's fault. This is your fault. You are much older than she. I can't believe you are blaming her for initiating the damage to your relationship. You say she knows she is going to get hurt - she should already be hurt if you broke it off.

 

I am trying to let her go, but she is very devoted and convinced she loves me already and feels anyone she will ever meet will be sub par (in the intangibles, aside from my marital status, etc) I feel bad for her. I need to ween her way. I should not have given in.

 

Why do you need to ween her away. Just let her go. I don't believe you want to let her go.

 

For me, because I have hurt my wife. I have damaged my 10 year marriage, and 18 year relationship. For me because I have tasted the dark side. I liken it to smoking crack. It is very addicting. I feel the same way about the other woman as she does for me. I am practically in love with her, even though I love my wife. It is a different kind of love.

 

If you love your wife but are in love with this girl, why don't you do your wife a favor and go with the OW. It sounds like you are just staying with your wife so you can keep your suburbia lifestyle, not because you are "in love" with her. She deserves so much better.

 

I would be able to cut her off, but we work together. I will see her and work closely with her, and will not be able to get around that situation because I have the job that I love and there is no way. With all that said, my wife (and I) are terrified to not have each other. We love each other very much. She is incredibly accepting and trustworthy of what has happened. I am very lucky for that. I owe her.

Trustworthy, somehow I doubt that!

 

I need to let her down slowly and easily for her own good. For my own good, and for my marriage, my lifestyle, and my children.

 

My, my, mine. You sound very selfish.

 

I have a strange feeling if I left my wife, it WOULD workout. I do not have a crystal ball and I am not willing to throw away my marriage and all that and put my family through that. It is horrible. But I also feel I will have to settle to a certain extent, but I do not have it that bad. It is very confusing.

 

Poor you, don't settle. You are right if you left your wife it WOULD work out just fine for her. She probably wouldn't see this at first but as time goes on and she finds someone to make her feel the way you couldn't, she will be much happier.

 

OW, also deserves someone better for her, as much as she believes I am the one. Someone closer to her age, not married, etc. She is a glutten for punishment I think. I feel bad for her, even though she is an amazing person. She has been in two other serious relationships, one was abusive, and one was a man who left for Iraq and knocked up a girl in the marines and he left her.

 

Well here's her problem, low self-esteem from bad relationships. Now she can add sleeping with a married man to her list.

 

Unfortunately, I feel we are soul mates and that is a powerful thing. I can honestly say I am glad I was caught in this quagmire, because who knows how things would have turned out if it carried on for a few more months or longer. I dont know where it is going.

 

The rebuilding process has begun. My heart is heavy. Heavy for all three of us. Heavy for a possible true love that I am going to lose. Heavy for the hurt I helped cause to my wife. A woman I am commited to for better or for worse. She is a good woman. She is attractive, a good homemaker, and decent wife, and hard worker. You really cannot ask for much more. We are going to strive to tend to each others emotional and physicall needs and get better. It will be done one way or another.

 

No but she can ask for more. A husband who feels like she is his soulmate not another woman. If you feel this way about the other woman you are using your wife as a maid.

 

 

I know my thoughts here jump around. I know what is logically the right thing to do, but I am in love with the OW.[/quote]

 

Then stop being a coward and go with her!

[BentSpine]

Remember that you come from a period of sexual satisfaction. With the sexual need met you now have energy to give to your marriage. The sexual need will return though. But you are betting all your money on that by the time your need returns, you will have a new wife, at least with regard to intimacy.

 

You hope that counselling will make your wife go from not wanting to kiss you in the first place to meeting your need. Depending on how big a need you have her character change would be anything from major to monumental. To me it sounds like you should keep the number to the OW. How many months can you wife keep up the intimacy charade?

[momma3179]

I have read this entire thread and have come to the conclusion that you don't want help or advice. You are trying to defend everything you have done to people who aren't part of your situation and ignoring all advice, why? Trying to clear your conscience without actually admitting the offense to the W and OW? I bet they are both in the dark as everything you have said in any one particular post has been contradicted by the next! What are you WANTING us to say to you? Clearly, you are closed off to the reality that this is YOUR fault; every action, every hurtful word spoken, the alienating of your W, and the affair with the OW and overpaid escort...aka hooker; excuses after excuses about everything. I so do not see any redeeming quality that either would find in you. The only thing even remotely redeeming in your character would be WHEN you fess up to everything you have caused and accepting responsibility for your actions.

[sally4sara]

Wow, I really feel for the wife on this one.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, it must be extremely difficult to hear about how boring and passionless she is. So boring and passionless that she naturally drove her husband to an amazing, sensuous, and seductive OW who is now his soul mate for at least an hour a day. She'll definitely feel motivated to crack the whip and serve his needs, otherwise he'll dump her and be better off financially and sexually with the so much less boring, sensuous soul mate thats waiting for him in the wings!

 

But something tells me he hasn't painted as clear a picture for his wife as he has for us readers.

[maritallyconfused]

While I appreciate some of the advice here, so many of you are (previously jilted?) flamers who just simply judge based on face value and not knowing all the facts and circumstances and complexities..

 

I cannot blame you, all you know is that which I tell....

 

Regardless, it is a good sounding board. I appreciate it. This is good advice...

 

I am 100 percent focused on fixing things with my wife.. I realize my mistake, I am not proud, but it does take two to get there. If I betrayed a happy marriage, she would divorce me. We know what we have to do.

 

I will squelch the feeling with the OW, and steer clear as much as possible. She loves me and is going to be there and feel for me regardless. Since I work with her it makes it very difficult.

Edited January 16, 2008 by maritallyconfused

[Owl]

MC-

 

As a long time poster on this site and many others, I want to offer a thought to you.

 

Infidelity, the roles of all three primary players (WS, BS, and OP), the interactions between them, the likely possible outcomes, the steps to recovering a marriage....

 

These are almost never varied by those "facts and circumstances and complexities..".

 

The truth is, the details matter little.

 

The reality is, these things inevitably follow standard "scripts". The names change, the stories vary little, and at the end of the day, the steps needed to resolve things vary little either.

 

Even your own defensiveness is "standard wayward script".

 

I'd suggest you concentrate less on the "anger" you sense, and more on the real advice you're being given.