Should I settle for the sake of kids and commitment if marriage is lame or get help?

[torranceshipman]

Lol...not the smartest fish in the pond...and a cheater! And a compulsive liar...but he must be a looker, cause the hot girl in this story clearly can't stop 'seducing' the poor man, lol!

 

Seriously, the bit about 'having to let her down nice and gently' - if that part is true it suggests you havent even broke it off yet and that you're still letting her think there is something going on between you two. That's nasty! And if you haven't told her unconditionally that you're through, you're still 100% cheating!

[stillafool]

All I can say is I hope after his wife has the baby life brings her a man who will appreciate her, love her and give her more sex and romance than she has ever known before. This guy only loves himself.

 

BTW, he never did answer the question about how he would feel if his wife was the one who had the affair. He doesn't have to address the question now but he may in the future because it really is true that 'what goes around comes around'.

 

He also says "never mind the location,etc" for his lies. How can we help if you don't tell the truth troll?

[JustBreathe]

Some people are incapable of telling the truth, even on an anonymous board like this one. Why mention a city at all? Interesting.

 

His pregnant wife needs her husband's support more than ever because, as all of us mothers know, pregnancy is not a picnic. Instead she gets to hear how she didn't do this enough, or she did that, that he felt this way and that way about her, and, finally, that he had an affair with someone at work. On top of having a belly full of this man's baby, she gets to watch him pining away for the scooze who would spread her legs for a married man with a pregnant wife, knowing he works with her every single day.

 

All is not gloom and darkness though! After all, he IS giving her the opportunity to help him fix their marriage. Maybe get some therapy to fix herself. She can hold on to that!

 

Once her head stops reeling from having all of this thrown in her lap, I suppose she will pull out a prayer rug and thank Buddah, Allah and the Apostles for the opportunity to help him fix the mess he's made.

 

Why doesn't he just make it easier on her and hit her in the head with a shovel a few times a week?

 

This man is too much.

[te75]

Confused, I think it's clear you've made up your mind. Just one more thought though as you angrily depart. Are you able to think beyond yourself? I'm attaching an article for your consideration. If this cannot appeal to your humanity then..... It's lengthy but it might enlighten you.

 

_______________________________________________________

 

Excerpts:

 

THE PAIN OF ADULTERY

 

... The most profound reason why a wife (or husband, of course) is upset by infidelity is this: her husband, something which belonged to her, was used, even abused, by someone else. By doing so, the spouse who was not present was made to feel that they did not exist.

 

Most people would get upset if someone, even a friend, used their car without permission. Yet, if they asked, we might happily allow them to use it, as well as many other possessions. But then there are those things which are so personal & so private that we would not allow anyone to use them. For example, one's wedding ring is not the kind of thing that one ever feels comfortable about lending out.

 

It is too personal, too private, to be given to someone else to use. The same may be said, for example, of one's bedroom.

 

... But how much more so when it comes to one's husband or wife! When they share an intimate experience with someone else, we feel violated, just as if someone had used our most intimate object for their personal use.

 

This is the only plausible reason I see for the deep sense of hurt people feel when they discover that their spouses have engaged in compromising activities outside of marriage. We feel we possess our spouses; they belong to us, & they should not be `used' by anyone else.

 

We feel outraged when our house is burgled. It is one of the most frustrating things that can happen to us. Having worked hard to afford certain possessions, & to create a pleasant home, we feel abused & violated when a perfect stranger comes along, takes away our treasures & wrecks our home.

 

And this is how we feel when confronted with infidelity, but the feeling of loss & hurt goes right to the core of our being.

 

In other words, the real crime & hurt associated with someone taking your car without your permission has little to do with the fact that the actual car was taken. It may be brought back complete & as good as before. The thief might even have filled the tank up with petrol.

 

So why are you angry? Because you were not asked! The act of taking the car without you being asked belittles you & makes you seem insignificant. The person who takes it acts as if the car had no owner.

 

The extreme outrage we feel when our possessions are used without our permission really has little to do with the object itself, & has everything to do with ourselves. It is not the object that has been violated. We have been violated. We weren't asked. We were treated as if we were not important enough to ask. We were treated as if we were insignificant, & as if we did not exist.

 

A car is only an insignificant part of our possessions, but a cheating spouse is the ultimate statement of our non-existence & insignificance. Marriage is a total statement of what we are & to what we aspire. We make the great sacrifices, endure the most extreme inconveniences, lay out vast sums of money, expend great emotional effort, all to make our spouse love us & remain happy with us.

 

In short, we put all of ourselves into our marriage (unlike our cars), so that when our spouses betray us & have an affair with someone else, even if it is just a brief encounter not to be repeated, the hurt is indescribable & never to be forgotten.

 

With that one action, our spouse, the one who is supposed to make us feel the most loved & the most significant, the one who is meant to make their universe revolve around us & treat us as if the sun has risen for our sake, has dismissed our existence in its entirety.

 

By sharing the most intimate conversation, romance, & bedroom activities with a stranger, our spouse has compromised our existence completely by treating us as if we don't have to be asked, as if we were insignificant.

 

Humiliation is a Type of Murder

 

No wonder, then, that by far the overriding feeling associated with marital infidelity is humiliation, far more than pain, betrayal, or shock. The partner cheated against feels disgraced.

 

In Judaism the biggest crime is to humiliate someone publicly. The reason that the Talmud declares that he who humiliates someone publicly loses their share in the world to come, & likens this act to killing, is that it is exactly so. The severity of the act of killing is that one person decides to negate the existence of the other in its entirety.

 

There can be no greater crime, or statement of arrogance, than this. And the same is true of humiliating someone publicly. By humiliating them, one dismisses the existence of the other person by destroying their reputation & self-esteem.

 

If you murder someone you incur a capital penalty, thereby losing your place in this world. But if you humiliate someone publicly, you lose your place in the world to come. You die an eternal death.

 

It is a bigger sin to make someone wish they were dead than to make them dead. It is a far bigger sin to make someone a conscious participant in the act of their own murder. The greatest form of humiliation, therefore, is adultery. When you commit adultery you are dismissing someone's existence in its entirety. You are saying that they couldn't compete.

 

Your existence should be defined by your spouse's love. To love is to be a creator. By loving someone we call forth their existence from nothingness & make them feel that whether or not they will wake tomorrow morning actually makes a difference & will be felt by a significant number of people.

 

To love then is to create someone anew. And to ignore someone is to consign them to insignificance & make them feel that if they die tomorrow no one will notice & no one will care. Adultery is the ultimate form of this rejection.

 

Here is the same man who has spent his life, money, time & affection on you, dismissing you completely. He enjoys intimacy with another woman. He acts as if he has no wife. He pretends that you do not exist, that he is not married. What wife? He is saying that she doesn't exist.

 

A fascinating corollary which bears this point out - & which really caught my eye when I first saw it - is this: if a man is cheating on his wife & has a mistress, the mistress will be extremely upset to discover that he has a second mistress. Nearly all women who were serving as the lover or mistress of a married man said they would be furious if they discovered that they too were being cheated on.

 

Some went as far as saying, `I would kill him'. Yet on the other hand, paradoxically, the same women do not give a toss that this same man is having sexual liaisons with his own wife, perhaps even every night. They do not consider this as `cheating'. To them, the wife is nothing. She is not even in competition. It is as though the wife does not even exist. The mistress can be devastatingly jealous of a third woman, but rarely of the wife.

 

The reports that I have seen concur that roughly 8o per cent of women who serve as mistress to a married man would be `very upset' if they discovered that the man was seeing yet another lover, & yet take no notice of the fact that he has a wife.

 

Is it not ironic that instead of the adulterous spouse feeling terrible remorse & humiliation for their act of betrayal, it is generally the victim who feels humiliated?

 

Here we begin to see the magnitude of the crime of adultery, a crime in which the victim pays the highest price. Is there any other crime like this on the entire planet in which the victim experiences not only terrible hurt, & an outright negation of their entire existence, but also total humiliation? No wonder, then, that so many sinned-against spouses keep the unfaithfulness of their husband or wife a total secret. It reflects terribly on them that they were cheated on & in their own minds they feel inferior & inadequate.

 

Seen in this way, adultery represents the very antithesis of love, & not just in a practical sense. As explained above, adultery is the ultimate dismissal of someone else's existence. I say the ultimate, even amidst what may be construed as more heinous dismissals or crimes, such as murder, since in murder or other forms of violent crime the people usually hate each other.

 

But in marriage, they claim & have taken vows to love each other. The ultimate definition of love, I believe, is one person ascribing significance & totally enhancing the existence of another human being through their affection for them. When you love someone, their wishes become your wishes, their delights become your delights, their pleasures become your pleasures.

 

Anything else is not love but selfishness. Love gives us the ability to put ourselves second to someone else, to make ourselves number two & even take pleasure in doing so, thus defying our essential human nature & survival-instinct to be selfish & to put ourselves first. ...

 

A Sense of Possession in Marriage

 

A wife must be allowed to feel that her husband is only her husband. And a husband must be allowed to feel that his wife is only his wife. This kind of attachment that develops between married couples is essential to the health & stability of every marriage, which will only last if both partners feel desirable & above all, confident.

 

From my personal experience in counseling men & women who discover that their spouse has been unfaithful, the thoughts expressed above are borne out by experience: again & again, the overriding emotion which they describe to me is one of humiliation. Yes, there is betrayal & there is a loss of trust, but what hurts the most is the humiliation.

 

These feelings of humiliation resound heavily in the personal statements of wives who have uncovered their husbands' infidel¬ity & those of other men: `Since I have been divorced I have been astounded at the number of married men who have expressed interest in me - the first was my ex-husband's best friend, who I regarded as a brother. I still can't believe the crassness of some men - how easily they disregard a sense of loyalty to their wives. ...

 

The Attraction of Novelty

 

Coupled with this feeling of humiliation is a sense of being discarded & used, no longer fresh, exciting or invigorating. I remember once I was trying to sell a Colour Notebook computer. It was only seven months old & I advertised it as the top-of-¬the-line model available. It was not cheap, but, for a quick sale, I was selling it at a heavily discounted price.

 

A student friend came in to inquire about it, & asked if he could send a fax to his father who knew much about computers. Without hesitation I allowed him to, knowing full well the quality of the item in question. Within an hour the fax came back to my office. It read: `Marc, do not buy the computer. It is definitely not worth it. It has now been superseded by a newer model.'

 

For the life of me, although this was only a computer, & one that I was trying to get rid of at that, I still felt personally humiliated by the fax. The bargain was not a bargain, not because it wasn't a terrific machine, & not because it wasn't a competitive price, but merely because there was now a newer, more up-to-date model.

 

To be sure, this new model would cost a hefty lot more, but just to gain the new features, which were marginal at best, it is worthwhile discarding a great deal on the old.

 

Perhaps this is how a sinned-against spouse feels. Not only is there a sense of personal rejection, but rejection for a reason that they could never compete against. Every wife knows that among the many women that their husband will set eyes upon, most of them will have no great advantage over their wives. They are not necessarily smarter, more beautiful, glamorous, or even more sexy.

 

But they are one thing that the wife could never again be: new & untried. They have a novelty value which the wife does not. And in nine cases out of ten, the attraction felt by the husband, & the excitement engendered by the affair, is for this reason alone.

 

So how can a wife compete? Their every talent & very opinion of themselves lie strewn by the wayside, for they are competing in an arena where they cannot even enter the battle. They are powerless to alter the main reason for the other party's victory.

 

What makes this feeling of unfair competition even more painful is this absurd & clearly ironic suggestion: instead of the fact that I am his wife engendering & consolidating his loyalty, as it should, the reverse is true. Because I am his wife, & therefore he is used to me, I can never be as exciting, or indeed as forbidden, as a woman who is not his wife.

 

It is almost as if the marriage itself is the reason for the infidelity. Hence, one of the wives' main reactions to an adulterous husband is this: `It is my fault. Why was I so devoted to him? I shouldn't have run & done everything for him. I gave him the best years of my life, my youth, & his children, & this is what he does to me. I was too easy. I should have been a lot tougher. I should have played more hard to get.'

 

Thus, adultery will initiate a cycle in which the wife, too, will be less loyal & devoted, & slowly the entire marriage begins to unravel.

 

After Adultery

 

There is a terrible confusion & confounding of the emotions in which innocent victims search their souls for collusion. It is an inescapable tragedy of adultery that the victim is left to feel the culprit, & is even more hurt than a remorseful husband after the event.

 

Telling your spouse that the adultery was no big deal makes things far worse; it utterly destroys & exposes the folly of the typical male defence of their infidelity: -it was only sex, I didn't love her, it wasn't at all serious. Far from this claim lessening the pain of their spouse, it just adds insult to injury.

 

The less serious it is, the more it shows that they completely dismissed the existence of their wife entirely. You see, if a husband was tormented & tortured over whether or not they were going to commit adultery, if they felt terrible remorse afterwards, instead of dismissing it as a trivial & passing event, at least then they would be showing that they took their wives into consideration & acted as if they did exist.

 

But here, when they brush it off as nothing, they are making matters far worse. They are basically arguing that they did not reckon at all with the fact that they were married. It was no big deal. My wife never even came into my deliberations. I acted just as I would have done when I was single, when I didn't have to consider that I might be hurting someone.

 

If it does happen, at the very least don't pretend that it was nothing. While to you it may just have been sex, & you think that you can go back to your wife in good conscience, to your wife it was serious indeed since you made her feel like she wasn't your wife at all.

 

In the Hite Report, a woman discusses the turmoil her husband's affairs brought into their life. Over a period of ten years, my husband had been unfaithful. We had gone through several crises, all over one woman, & with the help of marriage counselors, ministers, realities, & friends, I had come through. Of a forgiving nature anyway - `soft' - I wanted the children to have a united family atmos¬phere to grow up in.

 

I believed my husband would grow out of his `yearning' for another & accept his responsibilities to our family. He didn't. In the end there was a complete breakdown. He started disappearing literally overnight `just to sort things out'. I was `only trying to help' & he was `sorting things out'.

 

In the end I couldn't take any more. My husband was always telling me that I didn't seem to need him as the other woman did. What he meant was that I managed without him - I had to - it wasn't that I wanted to.2

This is one of the reasons why after the adultery the marriage may never again be the same. The wife may never again be as loving or caring as she once was. This is not because she is still angry or vengeful or even because she is hurt. Rather, the reason is that she feels that it was her goodwill itself & her over¬exertion to be a good wife which led to her husband's infidelity. But no more of that.

 

She will make him spend more time earning her love, rather than seducing other women. Not to spite, but because she wants his emotions firmly fixed on herself rather than someone else.

 

The proof that the change which can be caused in a marriage following an adulterous affair comes about not of out of spite but from a genuine sense of hurt, humiliation & outrage can easily be established by the predominant feeling of love for the husband which still exists amidst the sense of hurt after the affair.

 

`I still love my husband very much, even though this other relationship he is involved in is hurting me deeply. I have never had a desire not to love him. I really don't think I could stop loving him.' ...

 

Harmony not justice

 

This may be very difficult for us to understand, & indeed this story is, to modern thinking, one of the hardest to comprehend in the Bible. Our society is far more interested in justice, in the narrow sense of right & wrong, than it is in the pursuit of true justice, which entails the establishment of peace & harmony.

 

We are always too ready & willing to start an argument, or to criticize someone dear to us when we feel that we have been wronged, & to feel that this injustice must be corrected. But here God says that we must always listen to our spouses, because what is most important is the preservation of the relationship, regardless of how difficult it may be to take heed of the other party & accord their opinion respect even when it may not make sense to us. The promotion of peace, love & harmony by far outweighs questions of right & wrong & our individual opinions.

 

Stated in other words, one of the greatest insults that can be paid from one spouse to another, & the greatest offense within a marriage, is to ignore the opinions of the other.

 

It is to treat them as if they are unimportant; as though, because to us their opinion makes no sense, it is therefore not worth listening to. What this effectively says is that only when they are rational does their opinion have worth within the marriage; their intrinsic will is unimportant to us.

 

But we don't marry people in order to have them make sense. We marry them in order to love them & make them feel special. This is achieved first & foremost by never ignoring them or making them feel like idiots. Any marriage which proceeds along those lines is bound for certain failure.

 

If one person feels that their opinion does not matter, then it is as if they do not exist. A relationship involves compromising one's own opinions, assumptions & positions, in order to accommodate those of the other party with whom one shares one's life & home.

 

The Adulterer: Adventurer or Nomad?

 

To commit adultery & to have affairs while married is to maintain, instead of a state of wholeness & completion, a state of nomadic indifference & wandering. The unfaithful partner will never be complete because he or she understands human sexuality in terms of a selfish desire for pleasure only, with whomever & wherever he or she so desires.

 

They have no intention of accommodating the sensitivities of their spouse, & indeed display an indifference to their very existence. The adulterer has no permanent home, although he may have a wife, children & a house.

Worse still, he has no other half. He does not really have his own bed, for his bed is wherever he makes it that evening. His life is but a brief thrill in the face of a passing wind. For him there is no warmth for half his heart is to be found elsewhere. He is like a man punctured, with all his love & warmth pouring out in different directions.

 

Because it cannot be focused & directed toward one target, he cannot stay attached to one individual. Whereas a man or woman who remains faithful & loyal in marriage becomes stronger & stronger through the love shown them & through being synthesized with their other half, the adulterer is different: he is like a balloon losing air, becoming more & more diminished with the passage of time.

 

Because his sexual steam escapes in useless directions, it cannot propel him toward his wife & family in a lasting & meaningful way. His life is not about love, but the opposite.

 

He causes pain whenever & wherever he seeks & finds pleasure. Specifically in the area where he is meant to generate the most warmth, in his marital relations, he generates friction & heat.

 

Every act of love is a stab in the heart to his other half. Now, instead of just him being punctured, he has punctured her life as well.

 

Her former goodwill now oozes out slowly, & she finds every reason in the world to quarrel with her husband, even over the most petty problems. She has been transformed by her very own husband from a partner into an adversary.

 

Think about the level of contradiction in adultery. One partner in the marriage receives pleasure & excitement, while through the very same act hurt & pain is caused to, not just the husband or wife of this person, but to their other half. One literally acts in contradiction to oneself.

 

One gains momentary happiness by permanently stabbing oneself in the heart.

Edited January 19, 2008 by te75

[OWoman]

her husband, something which belonged to her, was used, even abused, by someone else.

 

wow te I am SO glad I am not married to you!

 

I have no idea where you live but in my country slavery - the ownership of one person by another - was declared illegal centuries ago.

[complicatedlife]

wow te I am SO glad I am not married to you!

 

I have no idea where you live but in my country slavery - the ownership of one person by another - was declared illegal centuries ago.

 

I think it is meant figuratively here and not literal....well, I hope!

[te75]

I didn't write it. This was written by a professional. Whatever stock you want to grant it is your choice, as it is mine and anyone else who reads it.

 

Is it valid? For you it is not.

 

Honestly though you are looking at it from the opposite perspective than I. I look at it as what I can give to my partner. You look at it as what would be taken away. That makes your perspective very clear.

[GreenEyedLady]

I didn't write it. This was written by a professional. Whatever stock you want to grant it is your choice, as it is mine and anyone else who reads it.

 

Professional what?

[complicatedlife]

I didn't write it. This was written by a professional. Whatever stock you want to grant it is your choice, as it is mine and anyone else who reads it.

 

Is it valid? For you it is not.

 

Honestly though you are looking at it from the opposite perspective than I. I look at it as what I can give to my partner. You look at it as what would be taken away. That makes your perspective very clear.

 

 

Just curious...I've read some of your posts and you say some very enlightening things - plus I'm impressed by what you were able to do with your marriage, however, I'm curious to know if you truly believe that you "own" your wife and if so, what it means?

[te75]

Lady, we could debate this but I don't believe you really read it. It wasn't about "owning" another it is about how insignificant one is made to feel by the act of infidelity.

 

It is about how total selfishness can be such a destroyer and there a many other elements to the book's excerpts.

 

In fact, it is my belief that what side of this we come down on clearly states what we are as individuals.....are we givers or are we a takers?

 

Do you usurp or do you contribute? Do you contribute to the whole or do you subtract from the sum?

 

Or, are you merely interested in what makes you "feel" as good as this given moment can make you feel?

 

Are those not pertinent questions when deciding whether or not to discard another human being? How do we go from romantic love to apathy? What part do we play in our own demise?

 

How can we become so volitile, so unbalanced?

[OWoman]

Honestly though you are looking at it from the opposite perspective than I. I look at it as what I can give to my partner. You look at it as what would be taken away. That makes your perspective very clear.

 

I would never want to "own" my partner. I would never want him to feel his freedom was in my hands. I would never want him to feel beholden or obligated or bound to me. The day - the minute - he no longer chooses to be with me, I want him to exercise that choice and act on it. He cannot be all that he can be, the fullest most actualised human being he's capable of becoming, if he's to be constrained by me.

 

To the extent I facilitate his growth and he mine, we belong together. If we should inhibit that in each other, we should part.

 

"Ownership" has no part at all to play in the kind of relationship my partner and I want, and have.

[Pirouette]

Just curious...I've read some of your posts and you say some very enlightening things - plus I'm impressed by what you were able to do with your marriage, however, I'm curious to know if you truly believe that you "own" your wife and if so, what it means?

 

Am not who you are addressing and am not even married, or ever was, but I read that LONG article with some interest. I took the idea of "own" like this: I have told my longterm boyfriend that I belong to him, and he has said that he belongs to me. Like those Valentine cards that say "be mine" and you accept. Your vows would be a more adult exchange . It is a mutual ownership where you are both charged with the care, respect, and devotion of each other's selfs. In exchange, we get that parts of each other that no one else gets: the romantic love, the confidences, the partnership, the complete trust, and the deep satisfaction gained from such a bond.

 

The ownership fails and is rescinded as soon as the guardianship is compromised (through abuse, betrayal, infidelity, or whatever else was a relationship breaker) because we are voluntarily owned and can leave at anytime. The abusing spouse has shown a disdain for the person that they "owned" and the abused spouse feels that they never "owned" the other spouse.

 

That's how I take it at least.

[te75]

Just curious...I've read some of your posts and you say some very enlightening things - plus I'm impressed by what you were able to do with your marriage, however, I'm curious to know if you truly believe that you "own" your wife and if so, what it means?

 

I don't believe in ownership I believe in the total commitment to oneness.

 

Look, I know people vary but there are many things we all share. Most of them are simply the need to be important and to be cherished by the one we're with. The problem I have is the notion of "well, I found this one who cherishes me more". At some point it all turns into the same thing.

 

No matter how you look at it, no matter who your with, life with a true partner requires embracing tolerance. Reveling in your differences and looking for common ground to grow towards.

 

We don't do that. Why? the kids gotta be rushed to hockey, I had to work 70 hours a week to build my business, she likes TV, I don't. I am physical she is not. It finally comes down to there's no sex/love/passion/joy/go ahead pick a word. We then only focus on our differences and that allows us to always dig into "I'M RIGHT". YOU DID THIS!!! I'm sorry but right is not right. Together is right. To compromise and to love compromising IS loving. And, to share that equally is so far beyond all the miniscual fighting over what? Heck most fights people don't even remeber the subject. They just know they weren't appreciated. Or as the article stated diminished to nothing. You don't desrve that so why project it? I was guilty of it as well. So was she.

 

Lady just did that to me. I don't care because I don't know her but if my wife were to say that, I would be offended she didn't understand the intillectual context of the discussion.

 

I just believe we're missing the deepest and the best slice of life by not working through the most difficult of times. Attraction, lust, passion, fun, whatever is everywhere. Can you really be someone's soulmate instead of looking for someone to be yours? What you if REALLY could have eyes for only one? I do, I always have. She has been my life's passion since I was 14. Still it almost slipped away.

 

That's all I'm saying....It's never us is it?

[te75]

Am not who you are addressing and am not even married, or ever was, but I read that LONG article with some interest. I took the idea of "own" like this: I have told my longterm boyfriend that I belong to him, and he has said that he belongs to me. Like those Valentine cards that say "be mine" and you accept. Your vows would be a more adult exchange . It is a mutual ownership where you are both charged with the care, respect, and devotion of each other's selfs. In exchange, we get that parts of each other that no one else gets: the romantic love, the confidences, the partnership, the complete trust, and the deep satisfaction gained from such a bond.

 

The ownership fails and is rescinded as soon as the guardianship is compromised (through abuse, betrayal, infidelity, or whatever else was a relationship breaker) because we are voluntarily owned and can leave at anytime. The abusing spouse has shown a disdain for the person that they "owned" and the abused spouse feels that they never "owned" the other spouse.

 

That's how I take it at least.

 

Pirouette - that is beautifully stated.

 

And for the record my wife, of my own will, owns me. And I her. Not of chains but of free will and it is an extraordinary feeling.

 

You did a beautiful job Pirouette.

[Computers]

How are things at home and at work? Are you back with the OW or talking to her?

[bentnotbroken]

Am not who you are addressing and am not even married, or ever was, but I read that LONG article with some interest. I took the idea of "own" like this: I have told my longterm boyfriend that I belong to him, and he has said that he belongs to me. Like those Valentine cards that say "be mine" and you accept. Your vows would be a more adult exchange . It is a mutual ownership where you are both charged with the care, respect, and devotion of each other's selfs. In exchange, we get that parts of each other that no one else gets: the romantic love, the confidences, the partnership, the complete trust, and the deep satisfaction gained from such a bond.

 

The ownership fails and is rescinded as soon as the guardianship is compromised (through abuse, betrayal, infidelity, or whatever else was a relationship breaker) because we are voluntarily owned and can leave at anytime. The abusing spouse has shown a disdain for the person that they "owned" and the abused spouse feels that they never "owned" the other spouse.

 

 

 

 

 

That is beautiful and so true. It is how it should be.

[Computers]

maritallyconfused wrote:

 

Well as a person who is currently in a marriage where sex and passion is lacking, and I never wanted to ruin things.... I can relate to his situation.

 

Your situation is entering dangerous territory. At a minimum you are going to be emotionally hurt. During my entire marriage, I have had my share of flings with women via sites like those and/or women I have met through work or while out.. It was always relatively harmless. Hot Sex, no emotion and fun. I think it is VERY hard to find a woman to have a sexual relationship with or FWB, but it can happen.

 

I currently am having a torrid affair with a co-worker, and I am trying to break it off, but I am in love with her. Her and I in both know in our hearts there is no way I am going to leave my marriage, due to my kids and finances, etc. so it is inevitable to end it and we BOTH will be hurt because I know she is my soul mate. We both have a grasp on things and know this is the direction it will go.....I think we both know the sex is so mindblowing that we are just gonna let it run its course, and we actually have been backing off the emotions.. which is good. It is a process.

 

So my advice is to back off the emotions if you can for both your sakes before you get in that situation. Just have sex and have fun or back away completely if it appears you cannot. My guess is that he has sensed your emotional connection and is probably going along with it because it feels good for him too, but if you backed off the emotion and just wanted some good hot sex that he will go along with that too!

 

And for Computers... I am not back into my affair, as I sort of expressed above.. we discussed things and now we are just banging each other, so its not an affair anymore! It is going to run its course. I know that may sound repulsive to you but its not so bad. The sex is THAT good!

 

So, you're a serious cheater. And, you're definately a liar, even on this board about your location, etc.

 

I hope your wife found out about your continue cheating and leaves you.

[sally4sara]

God this is sad and disgusting!

While I know I don't know every cop, why is it I have never known a cop that wasn't a philandering liar and/or on the take? Is it something in their personalities that attracts them to the job or is it the job that ruins them?

[serial muse]

Thank you for posting that, Computers - there's nothing worse than offering advice in good faith to someone who's actually lying and dissembling on his own thread.

 

This person is not worth the time and effort that a lot of caring people here have taken to try to help him. He could clearly care less about anyone other than himself, including this woman that he claims is his soul mate and is currently just "banging." I mean, for the love of all that's holy, what in hell are you thinking, MC?? You can't really be that callous?!

 

Seriously, there are no words. It's a waste of energy to try to help someone who doesn't much care about anyone else's feelings, because he doesn't want help. He wants validation, and he's not getting it here. Which is why he prefers to tell a pack of lies - to see if any of them will stick.

 

Like I said earlier, MC - that's not going to have the same effect on people at LS as it will on the women in your life. You're not going to get anxious sympathy and desperate "acceptance" from strangers who aren't trying to get you to "choose" them. And I sincerely hope that BOTH of these women wake up soon and realize that it's a lost cause for them, too.

 

And sally - who even knows if he's really a cop??? There's nothing that he's said that I think we can trust. Which is also true of the women in his life.

 

Edited January 23, 2008 by serial muse

[maritallyconfused]

It is because Cops are adrenaline junkies. We deal with lots of bs and often. ALso, my occupation and location is minutia that has nothing to do with this thread and my circumstances... stay focused.. please!

 

Yes, you have me pegged serialmuse, you are genius! In all seriousness, I have used this a a sounding board, and all is appreciated.

 

There are many posts on here that are worthwhile, just as many that are silly and judgemental from jilted women- and all of them are appreciated... Life is not so one dimensional.

Edited January 23, 2008 by maritallyconfused

[Owl]

Your occupation has everything to do with your situation, for the very reasons you cited.

 

The fact that you change your story (to include location and working relationship with OW) absolutely gives the impression that you're being dishonest with the details...which have far more impact on the outcome than you care to realize.

 

This is just like dealing with someone you've 'caught' doing anything...the minute he starts changing his story, everything about him and his story become suspect.

 

You've been given tons of advice, you simply don't like it. What more do you want from everyone?

[maritallyconfused]

In fact, I do like much of the advice.. I really do. I think much of it is overly conservative and idealistic, but I do not mind hearing about it..

 

It is appreciated. The fact is I cannot/will not change my work scenario. Being in law enforcement is what I like, and it is in my blood.

 

Second, Things are changing daily. I trust my co worker and we have backed off. Things are going smoothly with the wife. I count my blessings and she has been very accepting of what has happened.

 

On many levels, I have secretly been a bastard when it comes to that, but what people do not know does not hurt them. Wife found out this time and I have learned. Denying sex is almost criminal and I am human. It is frowned upon in the courts, just as much as infidelity, and it is (hate biblical references) the duty of a woman to give sex in marriage. I have made mistakes and given in to my urges. Despite popular opinion here, she feels (and is) equally to blame for allowing our relationship to get to the point where I strayed whena nubile young princess jumped on me. I made a mistake. The stray is over. OW accepts that. We are working on it. We are BOTH communicating and doing what it takes to make each other happy and hopefully it is a long term resolution.

 

I realize that is alot for very conservative and idealistic minds to handle, it is what it is..The prognosis is very good for my marriage to work out. Communication is in order. Love is there. Everything is on the table. It has been a blessing in disguise.

 

I know you guys like to pick me apart and say I am a callous monster and a liar. I am actually a very respecte d person, with alot of family, a noble career, many great friends, and accomplished educationally.

Edited January 23, 2008 by maritallyconfused

[Owl]

On many levels, I have secretly been a bastard when it comes to that, but what people do not know does not hurt them. Wife found out this time and I have learned.

 

If this is your mindset...give up now.

 

Your marriage has no chance to be a happy, healthy one. Unless you suddenly had some kind of epiphany that convinced you to completely re-think your outlook on life, I can't see a bright future for anyone but you.

 

You, however, have the mindset to enjoy your life to the fullest. Unfortunately, it'll be at the cost of everyone else around you.

 

I am actually a very respecte d person, with alot of family, a noble career, many great friends, and accomplished educationally.

 

Here's what's interesting. You wouldn't be respected if everyone knew about your affair. You wouldn't have your 'noble career' either, which has been your primary reason for not establishing NC with your OW. You'd likely lose most of your friends if they knew the full truth about your activities...or else they'd be the kind of friends who're so self-centered it wouldn't matter anyway. That leaves your education accomplishments. Those don't mean much without the rest of the package.

 

At this point, I'm bowing out.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Owl

[Kasan]

I realize that is alot for very conservative and idealistic minds to handle, it is what it is..The prognosis is very good for my marriage to work out. Communication is in order. Love is there. Everything is on the table. It has been a blessing in disguise.

 

I normally don't post much in this particular forum as I have been happily married for a long time.

 

But you are some piece of work--and I hope that your marriage will work out, and that your wife can get past your affair, specifically the visuals of you "banging" (your words) the other woman. How charming!

 

You should read up here--some of these marriages haven't been able to survive, and sometimes it has been several years down the road, that the betrayed spouse gives up.

 

I find it quite ironic given your profession that you have such a cavalier way of looking at a commitment that you made to another person. I have had the privilege of knowing many cops, and I have found the majority of them to be people of great integrity and honor.

 

Good luck to you--your arrogance and lack of empathy for your wife is simply astounding. You are correct, we all screw up as we are human, but I don't see any real remorse in your postings, and that is the problem that I have with your situation.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Kasan

[Impudent Oyster]

Ugh.

 

You ought to have a warning label tattooed on your forehead.

 

It's all about you, isn't it confused? Get into counseling, the sooner the better.