OWoman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 We are the most evolved species there is. All animals currently surviving are equally evolved - all have adapted to their environment and been naturally selected to the same degree, which is why we're all here. In fact, if there were a prize for "most evolved" I'd give it to the virus, which is able to mutate and adapt with such ease that many defy any kind of treatment or prevention (like HIV). Humans are arguably the most "advanced", in that our combination of intelligence and anatomy has enabled us to develop language and tools with which to change our environment ("advanced", being a term that implies favourable judgment, I'm using in inverted commas. There are many who think other animals are the better species, since they act without malice.) and to develop sophisticated reasoning which appears significantly greater than that (yet) observed in other animals. Which is a different thing to "evolved". Link to post Share on other sites
Kasan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have a question....promiscuous has been brought up on this thread several times. Do you think that people who have had a lot of partners prior to their marriage are more apt to cheat and nothing you could do in the bedroom to spice up the marriage would help? Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have a question....promiscuous has been brought up on this thread several times. Do you think that people who have had a lot of partners prior to their marriage are more apt to cheat and nothing you could do in the bedroom to spice up the marriage would help? No, not necessarily. I've been used to several partners simultaneously. I've now chosen to have just one because I've got a partner that meets all my sexual needs and then some. I have absolutely no motivation to look elsewhere because I know that, compared to what we have, anything else would be boring. And I've had enough experience to be able to judge! Link to post Share on other sites
sarme Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have a question....promiscuous has been brought up on this thread several times. Do you think that people who have had a lot of partners prior to their marriage are more apt to cheat and nothing you could do in the bedroom to spice up the marriage would help? Yes you would think so...I've never really been with a hugely promiscous guy and I am not promiscuous myself but that would make sense. Also the lack of experience with other partners too. I know at least of two couples that were married really young and were together since highschool or elementary school and one of them split up and cheated due to lack of partners the other one got back together but same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) I did not emphasize 'human' in my statement to draw a distinction between us and animals. I was making the point that the natural human behavior is not necessarily to stick with a single mate, and that by contrast to remain in the kind of monogamous relationship that society has come to define as 'normal' is in fact against our basic natures. Understood; I didn't intend to refute your point, per se, but to use it as a jumping-off point for my point that I accept that polygamy may be "in our nature", but it is not a distinguishing human trait. I was extending... So then you agree that essentially we humans are by nature animals. Animals by your definition are polygamous. So to mate copiously would be human. Ergo, to not mate copiously would be inhuman. N'est-ce pas? Wow... You've managed to twist a strange double negative out of a semingly logical chain. By your reasoning, it would be "inhuman" not to crap on the sidewalk when we feel the need, it would e "inhuman" not to bite, kick or punch someone who is standing too close to us in the line at the grocery store, and it would be "inhuman" not to act like an animal? (Oh... inhuman not to eat our young, like hamsters?) I think you misapplied at least one step in your logic there. I'm not saying that human nature is to be naturally monogamous. I'm saying we have a unique gift as humans to rise above our nature and make honorable agreements and promises, and that while cheating does stem from our instincts and urges which are - yes - a part of our nature, cheating is a breakdown of our higher nature, that which makes us unique. I am not condoning affairs. I am only saying that I can understand why they happen. I can too; I'm not saying it's somehow bewildering that we have these urges. I get it; I understand the urge. However, the discussion sometimes so often gets framed in terms of "are we by nature cut out to be monogamous, or are we polygamous and promiscuous, with natural urges and desires?" But while that addresses our desires, I don't think it informs the real discussion about cheating. In that discussion, I am more interested in the questions: "Are we able to make a commitment and stick to it, and be honest about when we want to depart, or is it 'natural' to satisfy our urges by sneaking around, cheating and lying to cover it up?" Again, the point of my earlier post was not to argue that polygamous sexual desires are not in our nature - I believe they are - but that the ability to make honorable commitments and stick to them is uniquely human, and that cheating is a breakdown of this human trait. I've got no problem is you want to go have sex with as many people as you want. As I said before, please leave your relationship with me first; that's the "human" way to handle it. Edited January 7, 2008 by Trimmer hamsters Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have a question....promiscuous has been brought up on this thread several times. Do you think that people who have had a lot of partners prior to their marriage are more apt to cheat and nothing you could do in the bedroom to spice up the marriage would help? I don't know that it would. People usually have a grab-bag of reasons why they are promiscuous, and sexual fulfillment is rarely a reason to be promiscuous. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 No, not necessarily. I've been used to several partners simultaneously. I've now chosen to have just one because I've got a partner that meets all my sexual needs and then some. I have absolutely no motivation to look elsewhere because I know that, compared to what we have, anything else would be boring. And I've had enough experience to be able to judge! At least he does at the moment. The question is in regards to faithfulness in a LTR.... Link to post Share on other sites
lexi29 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I've posed this question in several threads lately, and it hasn't been answered. I am really curious to know. If the W of a CH put more effort into their lovemaking - wearing lingerie, teasing her H, giving him BJ's, etc. - would it satisfy him enough to where he would stop the cheating? I would have to say no- that extra effort wouldn't help stop a cheater. Once someone decides to cheat or is already cheating, they aren't really going to care or appreciate any special efforts made by the person they are betraying. I honestly dont' think you can do ANYTHING to keep someone from cheating- that individual is responsible for their own behavior. I don't think its fair to expect the other person (the betrayed) to try to be responsible for their SO's behavior. In some cases the extra effort may help a RELATIONSHIP in general but don't think it will keep a cheater from straying if he/she wants to. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Gluttony is not a natural human instinct, it is an illness or a biproduct of another problem, it is is NOT a natural human tendency by any stretch. It's like saying everyone has a natural tendency to smoke, how come some do and some don't? Ahhh because smoking is not a natural human tendency. Actually, gluttony is a natural human instinct. If you consider the hunting abilities of cavemen, when they managed to kill any substantial sized prey, they feasted until they couldn't eat any more. Don't forget, there were no refrigerators back when and no knowledge of how to preserve meats in salt or by smoking. As for smoking cigarettes, not the same thing. So, somehow, most adults have adapted to civilization by not eating until we're stuffed to the gills, have learned not to defecate around the house, so...why haven't a portion of the population learned not to cheat? Hmmm...personal choice, just like gluttony is. Edited January 7, 2008 by Trialbyfire Link to post Share on other sites
sarme Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Actually, gluttony is a natural human instinct. If you consider the hunting abilities of cavemen, when they managed to kill any substantial sized prey, they feasted until they couldn't eat any more. Did you expect them to do ask for a doggie bag? they would prob overeat because they knew they would not have another meal for days maybe until the next prey was caught. duhhh! No it's not a natural human instinct, gluttony is a defect or illness. I think you need to look up the meaning of gluttony. People typicaly eat until they are satisfied not until their guts explode. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Did you expect them to do ask for a doggie bag? they would prob overeat because they knew they would not have another meal for days maybe until the next prey was caught. duhhh! No it's not a natural human instinct, gluttony is a defect or illness. I think you need to look up the meaning of gluttony. People typicaly eat until they are satisfied not until their guts explode. The term I used was gorge, gluttony is your term. I used it to relate to you but apparently it's become a point of definition, so I'll return to my term of "gorge". Link to post Share on other sites
sarme Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) The term I used was gorge, gluttony is your term. I used it to relate to you but apparently it's become a point of definition, so I'll return to my term of "gorge". I know you said gorge but you were expressing the same meaning as gluttony, people who "gorge" also have an illness, much like gluttons. Those who don't are pretty much normal healthy human beings so to go back to your point that people gorge and it is a natural human tendency, it is not. Gorging is a disease. Eating until you are satisfied is normal. Pay close attention to # 3 Gorge: a narrow cleft with steep, rocky walls, esp. one through which a stream runs. 2. a small canyon. 3. a gluttonous meal. 4. something that is swallowed; contents of the stomach. 5. an obstructing mass: an ice gorge. 6. the seam formed at the point where the lapel meets the collar of a jacket or coat. 7. Fortification. the rear entrance or part of a bastion or similar outwork. Maybe you meant a small canyon? LOL Edited January 7, 2008 by sarme Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 sarme, I give up since you're not interested in discussing the topic at hand, rather going further off-topic. Cheaters will cheat, regardless of additional sexual "favours" given by the spouse. Cheaters will cheat because there will always be people who empower and enable this behaviour by actively choosing to be affair partners. Even the ones who got involved, not knowing the affair partner was married, but continued to remain in the affair, are fully responsible for their portion of empowering and enabling a cheater. Link to post Share on other sites
Scrivdog Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 sarme, I give up since you're not interested in discussing the topic at hand, rather going further off-topic. Cheaters will cheat, regardless of additional sexual "favours" given by the spouse. Cheaters will cheat because there will always be people who empower and enable this behaviour by actively choosing to be affair partners. Even the ones who got involved, not knowing the affair partner was married, but continued to remain in the affair, are fully responsible for their portion of empowering and enabling a cheater. You ignoring all the evidence to the contrary on this board. Other than that great point I don't get how a woman can read what men have posted here and not get that the #1 issue that tempts a guy towards an affair is that self-righteous crossing of the legs after marriage. Spin it any way you want, try and complicated it beyond recognition, but the fact is ridiculously simple: Let your man walk out of the house horny and ignored every day and you may as well buy yourself a lifetime membership to LS, the Dr. Phil and Oprah boxed DVD set (you go girl!), and a litter of cats - because another woman will gladly be taking up the slack. It's really not that hard to understand. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 You ignoring all the evidence to the contrary on this board. Other than that great point I don't get how a woman can read what men have posted here and not get that the #1 issue that tempts a guy towards an affair is that self-righteous crossing of the legs after marriage. Spin it any way you want, try and complicated it beyond recognition, but the fact is ridiculously simple: Let your man walk out of the house horny and ignored every day and you may as well buy yourself a lifetime membership to LS, the Dr. Phil and Oprah boxed DVD set (you go girl!), and a litter of cats - because another woman will gladly be taking up the slack. It's really not that hard to understand. Since my ex-man never walked out the door lacking sex, I will debate this until the cows come home. Men say they cheat because they need to connect to their wives through sex, getting intimacy and validation from it. Now you're saying you only need to get laid, to be happy. Understand the difference? Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 sarme, I give up since you're not interested in discussing the topic at hand, rather going further off-topic. Cheaters will cheat, regardless of additional sexual "favours" given by the spouse. Cheaters will cheat because there will always be people who empower and enable this behaviour by actively choosing to be affair partners. Even the ones who got involved, not knowing the affair partner was married, but continued to remain in the affair, are fully responsible for their portion of empowering and enabling a cheater. I've never heard it put so perfect in all the times I've read on this site. Thank you so much for putting it exactly as it really is! Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 You ignoring all the evidence to the contrary on this board. Other than that great point I don't get how a woman can read what men have posted here and not get that the #1 issue that tempts a guy towards an affair is that self-righteous crossing of the legs after marriage. Spin it any way you want, try and complicated it beyond recognition, but the fact is ridiculously simple: Let your man walk out of the house horny and ignored every day and you may as well buy yourself a lifetime membership to LS, the Dr. Phil and Oprah boxed DVD set (you go girl!), and a litter of cats - because another woman will gladly be taking up the slack. It's really not that hard to understand. Guess the MM is a total POS then isn't he, if that's all he M for. Link to post Share on other sites
Scrivdog Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Since my ex-man never walked out the door lacking sex, I will debate this until the cows come home. Men say they cheat because they need to connect to their wives through sex, getting intimacy and validation from it. Now you're saying you only need to get laid, to be happy. Understand the difference? That's not what I said. Re-read the post. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Since my ex-man never walked out the door lacking sex, I will debate this until the cows come home. Men say they cheat because they need to connect to their wives through sex, getting intimacy and validation from it. Now you're saying you only need to get laid, to be happy. Understand the difference? Men cheat on their Ws especially if they're getting it at home, because they're self service a*ss wipes! Period. Link to post Share on other sites
Havn_a_life Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 You ignoring all the evidence to the contrary on this board. Other than that great point I don't get how a woman can read what men have posted here and not get that the #1 issue that tempts a guy towards an affair is that self-righteous crossing of the legs after marriage. Spin it any way you want, try and complicated it beyond recognition, but the fact is ridiculously simple: Let your man walk out of the house horny and ignored every day and you may as well buy yourself a lifetime membership to LS, the Dr. Phil and Oprah boxed DVD set (you go girl!), and a litter of cats - because another woman will gladly be taking up the slack. It's really not that hard to understand. Sounds like it to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 That's not what I said. Re-read the post. Okay, reread. Optimum word is "ignored". Right? Link to post Share on other sites
Scrivdog Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Okay, reread. Optimum word is "ignored". Right? :bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 :bunny: So, if you didn't get ignored, you would be happy in your marriage, right? Link to post Share on other sites
IamASelfishSOB Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 It wouldn't have mattered in my case. I considered my sex life more than adequate. Just my two cents. For some it probably would, just not for me. Link to post Share on other sites
sarme Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Cheaters will cheat, regardless of additional sexual "favours" given by the spouse. Cheaters will cheat because there will always be people who empower and enable this behaviour by actively choosing to be affair partners. Even the ones who got involved, not knowing the affair partner was married, but continued to remain in the affair, are fully responsible for their portion of empowering and enabling a cheater. Well then how does that relate to your example that it is natural human tendency to gorge and some people can stop it and others can't? You gave the example so don't change the subject now. and riiiight of course people will cheat because it is the other people's fault who are ready and willing to engage with them. Ok so then you are contradicting yourself if people gorge because it is a human tendency that some can stop and some can't, what does it matter how much food is out there, if some can stop and others can't the amount of food on the table shouldn't matter now should it? Me thinks you don't even understand your own example. LOL Edited January 7, 2008 by sarme Link to post Share on other sites
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