Would extra effort in the bedroom stop the cheating?

[Lizzie60]

Well guess what...if they are using you for sex...then you are.

 

Sorry.

 

Ha-hem.. I'm not sure who's using who?

[Lizzie60]

So ironic, since many BS's here refuse to take any ownership of the meltdown in the M that inspired their H's to cheat on them ("He owns that, 100%, I did nothing to contribute to it")... while at the same time they INSIST that the OP own his/her sh*t about stealing another person's S. Kinda like, "Do as I say, not as I do"... Everybody else EXCEPT THEM is under some kind of moral obligation (deigned by them, of course) to own their sh*t. This attitude (along with the judging and condemning) is why so many OP's here so fervently resist the wisdom in their words.

 

Not to mention that many times, the OP did NOTHING to "reel them in." The CS is moving on his/her own steam, and typically is the aggressor in the OR (Other Relationship).

 

Well said... but you will never make them change their mind... they are 'perfect' ... I call them the 'Holier than Thou' ...

 

I never reeled in anyone.. I never had to twist anyone's arm.. they were the one looking for it.

 

Very well said...

[sarme]

The only person that matters to me would be my SO...I don't need validation from anyone else.

 

You made it sound like you need it from everyone and their cat.

 

No huney, all I said was that "we all need our egos stroked", what you interpreted from that statement is your own doing.

[bish]

So ironic, since many BS's here refuse to take any ownership of the meltdown in the M that inspired their H's to cheat on them ("He owns that, 100%, I did nothing to contribute to it")... while at the same time they INSIST that the OP own his/her sh*t about stealing another person's S. Kinda like, "Do as I say, not as I do"... Everybody else EXCEPT THEM is under some kind of moral obligation (deigned by them, of course) to own their sh*t. This attitude (along with the judging and condemning) is why so many OP's here so fervently resist the wisdom in their words.

 

Not to mention that many times, the OP did NOTHING to "reel them in." The CS is moving on his/her own steam, and typically is the aggressor in the OR (Other Relationship).

 

 

Well said... but you will never make them change their mind... they are 'perfect' ... I call them the 'Holier than Thou' ...

 

I haven't seen anyone say they were perfect....hell..my XW wasn't perfect by any means...but you didn't see me going out and cheating on her.

 

 

I never reeled in anyone.. I never had to twist anyone's arm.. they were the one looking for it.

 

Well then I guess you forgot about your post bragging how you performed an experiment and went after a guy just to see if he would cheat. And to your pleasure he did.

 

You get off on it so much that you even had to perform some kind of experiment....amazing.

[Cobra_X30]

So maybe, just maybe it is time to look within and examine why these kinds of comments seem healthy to you and that is what you base your ideal of what is a REAL man and a REAL relationship to you. Maybe you had a REAL man in a REAL relationship but you just chipped away at his will to want to give to you by putting him down and you didn't see it.

 

I pointed this out earlier... TBF is looking for a specific type of guy. While I generally disagree with her terminology, and feel that her approach to relationships is a touch prideful, I can also see that she has many things right. You must admit there is a strong quality in a person who would be a fiercly loyal partner, and who communicates very directly.

 

What I find interesting is that several men have already mentioned that "though they are not for cheating, if their woman doesn't want to have sex with them they should be somewhat used to the idea that he will want to look elsewhere. It's funny to read that because when it comes to sex it appears for men all bets are off, yet it a woman thinks of looking elsewhere in a marriage because her emotional needs are not being met, she is just a worthless whore with no morals. or if a man is not getting his emotional needs and that is why he looks elsewhere he also has no balls. the double standards still amaze me.

 

The point was about communication. We guys were trying to explain that when we communicate a need... it should not be devalued or dismissed because it seems selfish. That goes both ways. If you fail to explain what you need or want... it's your fault not your SO.

 

So I dont think it's an "all bets are off" attitude. It's more of an "if you cant care enough about me to work at this" attitude.

 

Lasty Underpants:

 

I would recommend that insteand of being a silent predator who sits on the sidelines waiting for people to fall from their mistakes, you put some of your fears aside and start taking a little risk or two yourself in your own life because it makes for a happy existence and it is what distinguishes a dead person from a live one.

 

I think the silent predator part was a metaphor. I like to think it was a metaphor for an STD... cause the idea of underpants as a case of vengeful herpes kind of cracks me up.

 

Now... there are smart risks, and then there are stupid risks. You may just be a daredevil... that doesnt mean your smarter or better if it pays off.

[nittygritty]

There aren't any responses from former OW/OM who are now married to the cheaters. Probably a good reason for that don't ya think.

[Lizzie60]

I haven't seen anyone say they were perfect....hell..my XW wasn't perfect by any means...but you didn't see me going out and cheating on her.

 

 

 

 

Well then I guess you forgot about your post bragging how you performed an experiment and went after a guy just to see if he would cheat. And to your pleasure he did.

 

You get off on it so much that you even had to perform some kind of experiment....amazing.

 

Oh maybe it happened a few times.. I like to do my experiments while on vacation... I reeled them in is a big word... I didn't have to twist their arms... lol

 

It's the same as if a guy and a girl is flirting at a bar and the guy's trying to get into her pants... he's not raping her... same principle.

[bish]

Oh maybe it happened a few times.. I like to do my experiments while on vacation... I reeled them in is a big word... I didn't have to twist their arms... lol

 

It's the same as if a guy and a girl is flirting at a bar and the guy's trying to get into her pants... he's not raping her... same principle.

 

Wrong...he is trying to get a girl...not purposely trying to get them to betray their spouse.

 

thats pretty pathetic.

[Cobra_X30]

Ha-hem.. I'm not sure who's using who?

 

Lizzie, you can't win that battle. Your getting used everywhere but inside your own head.

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie, you can't win that battle. Your getting used everywhere but inside your own head.

 

Sorry but I am not buying that... it's too easy for you to say that...

 

Every time a woman is promiscuous, she's being used...

 

When is the male being used? never?

 

Sorry... but this is a 'macho' way of thinking...

[underpants]

I think the silent predator part was a metaphor. I like to think it was a metaphor for an STD... cause the idea of underpants as a case of vengeful herpes kind of cracks me up.

 

Now... there are smart risks, and then there are stupid risks. You may just be a daredevil... that doesnt mean your smarter or better if it pays off.

 

What?

 

Screened and clean.

 

My silent predator remark was based on some real life experiences where I have exposed other peoples' affairs in an anon way. It used to be a hobby. I have mellowed a bit.

 

I agree there are smart risks and stupid risks. I take risks and date on occasion. I have a full life with or without a romantic partner. For me, personally, a married person, or a person with a disposition towards cheating would not be a smart risk.

[sarme]

I pointed this out earlier... TBF is looking for a specific type of guy. While I generally disagree with her terminology, and feel that her approach to relationships is a touch prideful, I can also see that she has many things right. You must admit there is a strong quality in a person who would be a fiercly loyal partner, and who communicates very directly.

 

Yeah she is looking for a guy who won't cheat on her, aren't we all.

But men cheat, all kinds of real and not real men cheat. It really is the way the cookie crumbles and as many BSs found out the hard way you can invest all this energy and time into finding the perfect soul mate and he could still end up cheating on you anyway. SO, maybe someone who has already been there and is paying the painful consequences of what it was like to do something that hurt three people at the same time, will not want to go down that path ever again. I don't think my risk is that high, I didn't invest in a cheater, I invested in a man who cheated and ended his marriage after a brief affair to start a new life.

 

 

 

I think the silent predator part was a metaphor. I like to think it was a metaphor for an STD... cause the idea of underpants as a case of vengeful herpes kind of cracks me up.

 

Now... there are smart risks, and then there are stupid risks. You may just be a daredevil... that doesnt mean your smarter or better if it pays off.

 

If it was a metaphor for an STD then I missed it, yes that is a good one and it is one that I suppose we are all exposed to if we are single. But to think that you should stay married to someone you no longer want to be married to for fear of getting and STD seems a little extreme to me.

 

I really don't see myself as a daredevil at all, I want the exact same things all women want and in no particular order believe me I am just as normal and sensitive and down to earth and insecure and hopeful as the next girl.

I want respect and admiration and passion and love and honesty and trust, just as much as the next girl, just because I met a man under the conditions that I did it doesn't mean we can not strive to have that together, and I don't see him as the degenerate and I am the princess looking down at him we both did something wrong and we both let our weaknesses get the best of us so we we work together to overcome that but we also celebrate our love through admiration, passion, respect and overall caring for one another we have a good friendship and a deep connection.

 

Some people wait their whole lives to meet a perfect mate who will never cheat on them and don't even get half of what I just described so really it is all about balancing out what you get with what you hope to get. But to trying to scare me off, as some pushy people here do, from my own happiness because I did something that is deemed as morally wrong by society is useless, people do all sorts of morally wrong things and live through them and find happiness. And then there are people who live by the book and are struck by tragedy with no mercy at all.

[Cobra_X30]

Sorry but I am not buying that... it's too easy for you to say that...

Every time a woman is promiscuous, she's being used...

When is the male being used? never?

Sorry... but this is a 'macho' way of thinking...

 

Justify it however you want. It just displays how little you understand men and how we think and operate.

 

Not that I am judging you in particular... it's just I dont think your realistic in this belief.

 

Men get used all the time by the way, just not in the way your thinking.

[Trialbyfire]

So ironic, since many BS's here refuse to take any ownership of the meltdown in the M that inspired their H's to cheat on them ("He owns that, 100%, I did nothing to contribute to it")... while at the same time they INSIST that the OP own his/her sh*t about stealing another person's S. Kinda like, "Do as I say, not as I do"... Everybody else EXCEPT THEM is under some kind of moral obligation (deigned by them, of course) to own their sh*t. This attitude (along with the judging and condemning) is why so many OP's here so fervently resist the wisdom in their words.

Ah, the typical OW attitude of taking it backwards. Why don't we take it back to where the two should never have been married? After all, who asked who to marry them? Let's take it back even further. How dare the betrayed spouse who, at the time was single, fall in love with a single man who then proposed to them. Why didn't the then single betrayed spouse, know the weakness in their soon to be spouse and not marry them?

 

We could take it back another path. Why didn't the cheating spouse do everything they possibly could, to fix the marital issues? What's been made blatantly obvious on these boards is that many cheaters are poor communicators or have taken their safe little homes and spouses for granted for so long, that there's no intimacy left. When there's no intimacy left in the marriage, why in the world would some of these betrayed spouses, want to sleep with a stranger? Perhaps OW/OM might want to consider why they want to sleep with a stranger, considering how much a cheater lies to them...

 

We could take it back another way. If the OW/OM hadn't allowed themselves to poach, there would be no affair. Of course the argument comes up that the cheater would have had an affair with someone else, due to their "horrific" home life and mean/nasty spouses. If so, where is all that soulmate lurrrvvvee drivel, you hear on these boards about why it was necessary for the cheater and the OW/OM to remain in an affair?

 

One more step back down all the paths. If all three parties hadn't been born, there would be no affair situation, right? Blame all their parents...

 

Not to mention that many times, the OP did NOTHING to "reel them in." The CS is moving on his/her own steam, and typically is the aggressor in the OR (Other Relationship).

Did I say anything about who initiated the affair? Nope but now that you mention it, if I were to guess, like you're guessing, except balancing what the betrayed spouses, cheaters and the OW/OM say, it's about 50/50 whether the CS or the OW/OM initiates.

 

The person initiating is one thing. The person resisting but continuing to provide just enough interest and excitement to keep them wanting more, would be the fisherwoman...

[sarme]

We could take it back another path. Why didn't the cheating spouse do everything they possibly could, to fix the marital issues? What's been made blatantly obvious on these boards is that many cheaters are poor communicators or have taken their safe little homes and spouses for granted for so long, that there's no intimacy left. When there's no intimacy left in the marriage, why in the world would some of these betrayed spouses, want to sleep with a stranger? Perhaps OW/OM might want to consider why they want to sleep with a stranger, considering how much a cheater lies to them...

 

Again all the onis on the cheater, what did you do when the intimacy went out the door, did you confront him to get to the bottom of what was happening and explain that you were dissatisfied with him/relationship/intimacy with being a stranger/roomate or did you just go along with it too?

[Trialbyfire]

Not necessary. Imagine it like a chemical reaction. Some molecules are unstable alone... the new bond simply lowers the energy required to break the old one.

 

However, either way it doesnt really matter. The point was that not all situations are the same. Take each person and thier story individually.

There is no such thing as love at first sight, unconditional love and must get involved in an affair. There simply is no excuse.

 

As for the situation we discussed last night, it's no different than any other exit affair, where the weak partner is unable to walk away, without an apron to hide behind. The OW/OM empower and enable.

 

Ah well, too many times, when the CS walks with their broken internal issues unresolved, they do it again, but this time, to the OW/OM. The cycle of life, I suppose for certain MOs...

[Trialbyfire]

Again all the onis on the cheater, what did you do when the intimacy went out the door, did you confront him to get to the bottom of what was happening and explain that you were dissatisfied with him/relationship/intimacy with being a stranger/roomate or did you just go along with it too?

Our sex life never failed, at any time. Sex wasn't the issue...

[sarme]

Why didn't the cheating spouse do everything they possibly could, to fix the marital issues?

 

Because maybe they thought they wanted out, or that they had given everything they possibly could already, or actually wanted out.

I can see why this would makes a BS very angry I can totally empathise with this, if you are in a relationship with someone and you want out or are thinking you want out you should have the courage to step up to your partner and say so. But life doesn't always work that way. In the history of breakups I have never EVER heard anyone say "he told me he lost attraction for me and therefore he no longer loves me" or "she told me that my ways drive her crazy that I am nice but I just don't give her that spark" or "I made a mistake in marrying you" Most people will skirt around the real issues as to why they want out, in an exit affair it is the same thing. This man didn't have the courage to tell her he felt he made a big mistake in marrying her. and get this part because this is the kicker I never understood, his reasoning is, I didn't want to hurt her like that. To which I have always said, but hurting her cheating was ok? and his response is always, I never thought she would find out I thought I would leave the relationship and everything would fall into place.

 

People go through all sorts of things when they want to break up, I've heard some men do terrible things to women simply because they were too chicken to face the music and would rather make themselves hated than to have to deal with saying "I ain't into you anymore" Everyone says they want the truth but the reality is a lot of people when faced with the truth can't handle it.

Edited January 9, 2008 by sarme

[Trialbyfire]

Because maybe they thought they wanted out, or that they had given everything they possibly could already, or actually wanted out.

I can see why this would makes a BS very angry I can totally empathise with this, if you are in a relationship with someone and you want out or are thinking you want out you should have the courage to step up to your partner and say so. But life doesn't always work that way. In the history of breakups I have never EVER heard anyone say "he told me he lost attraction for me and therefore he no longer loves me" or "she told me that my ways drive her crazy that I am nice but I just don't give her that spark" or "I made a mistake in marrying you" Most people will skirt around the real issues as to why they want out, in an exit affair it is the same thing. This man didn't have the courage to tell her he felt he made a big mistake in marrying her. and get this part because this is the kicker I never understood, his reasoning is, I didn't want to hurt her like that. To which I have always said, but hurting her cheating was ok? and his response is always, I never thought she would find out I thought I would leave the relationship and everything would fall into place.

 

People go through all sorts of things when they want to break up, I've heard some men do terrible things to women simply because they were too chicken to face the music and would rather make themselves hated than to have to deal with saying "I ain't into you anymore" Everyone says the want the truth but the reality is a lot of people when faced with the truth can't handle it.

If you spin that the other way, what's easier? Taking the risk for cheating, with all the consequences or walking from a marriage without all the drama associated to an affair being an exit strategy?

 

What balanced person would take the drama filled approach?

[sarme]

If you spin that the other way, what's easier? Taking the risk for cheating, with all the consequences or walking from a marriage without all the drama associated to an affair being an exit strategy?

 

What balanced person would take the drama filled approach?

 

Excuse me but there was plenty of drama when all this started for him years ago when the discussions of the unhappiness started. There was plenty of fighting about it so much so that to avoid the fighting it was better just to live as strangers. Some people won't let go, and are comfortably numb but they also want to do nothing to fix things. I suppose being comfortably numb suited her well as long as he took her shopping for clothes, but it wasn't good enough for him he obviously needed more.

 

And do you think you can stop using the word "spin" and every time I post a response? If you think I spin and twist things around then why do you even bother talking or directing your comments at me? Just because I make different choices than you does not make me inbalanced, If you can't bring yourself to talk to me respectfully then don't bother, disagree with me all you want but stop labeling by responses it does absolutely nothing for your argument.

[sarme]

If you spin that the other way, what's easier? Taking the risk for cheating, with all the consequences or walking from a marriage without all the drama associated to an affair being an exit strategy?

 

 

And the answer to that is I don't know because I am not everyone, you should put that out there to see what people say.

[Trialbyfire]

Excuse me but there was plenty of drama when all this started for him years ago when the discussions of the unhappiness started. There was plenty of fighting about it so much so that to avoid the fighting it was better just to live as strangers. Some people won't let go, and are comfortably numb but they also want to do nothing to fix things. I suppose being comfortably numb suited her well as long as he took her shopping for clothes, but it wasn't good enough for him he obviously needed more.

You bring up the shopping example as if it's something traumatic. There are far worse things in life, than making someone go shopping with you. If that's all that caused the dissolution of their marriage, the CS in question has major issues. I suspect he probably made her watch a sports event or documentary or two that she didn't enjoy...

 

And do you think you can stop using the word "spin" and every time I post a response? If you think I spin and twist things around then why do you even bother talking or directing your comments at me? Just because I make different choices than you does not make me inbalanced, If you can't bring yourself to talk to me respectfully then don't bother, disagree with me all you want but stop labeling by responses it does absolutely nothing for your argument.

Spin is everything sarme. It's a four letter way to describe, point of view or perspective. You're in the media, tell me they don't call for slang, public relations types, as spin doctors.

[Cobra_X30]

What?

 

Screened and clean.

 

I agree there are smart risks and stupid risks. I take risks and date on occasion. I have a full life with or without a romantic partner. For me, personally, a married person, or a person with a disposition towards cheating would not be a smart risk.

 

Yeah... I remember your proclivity towards bieng a PI.

 

I think the VD metaphor is better! Mostly because it makes me laugh... you know the contradiction in terms. Like Little John... who is very big.

 

Yeah she is looking for a guy who won't cheat on her, aren't we all. But men cheat, all kinds of real and not real men cheat. It really is the way the cookie crumbles and as many BSs found out the hard way you can invest all this energy and time into finding the perfect soul mate and he could still end up cheating on you anyway. SO, maybe someone who has already been there and is paying the painful consequences of what it was like to do something that hurt three people at the same time, will not want to go down that path ever again. I don't think my risk is that high, I didn't invest in a cheater, I invested in a man who cheated and ended his marriage after a brief affair to start a new life.

 

I really don't see myself as a daredevil at all, I want the exact same things all women want and in no particular order believe me I am just as normal and sensitive and down to earth and insecure and hopeful as the next girl.

I want respect and admiration and passion and love and honesty and trust, just as much as the next girl, just because I met a man under the conditions that I did it doesn't mean we can not strive to have that together, and I don't see him as the degenerate and I am the princess looking down at him we both did something wrong and we both let our weaknesses get the best of us so we we work together to overcome that but we also celebrate our love through admiration, passion, respect and overall caring for one another we have a good friendship and a deep connection.

 

Then think of it this way. Supposing all happy relationships are equal... which may not be true... however lets consider it so at this point.

 

Your approach to relationships provides you the ability to to reach that happy mark with 50% of the male population. TBF's approach lowers that to 3% of the male population, making it much more difficult to find the right guy... and lowering the chance that it will work long term.

 

Of course I'm making up numbers to represent the overall idea as I see it.

 

I made it very clear earlier in the thread... and in other threads that I take each situation individually. I would only nominally attach the title of cheater to your SO. Like the difference between someone speeding 61 in a 60 vs. someone doing 110 in a 60. Yeah they are both speeding... but not in equal magnitudes.

[Trialbyfire]

And the answer to that is I don't know because I am not everyone, you should put that out there to see what people say.

If you consider yourself someone who can generally or specifically speak for the reasons and justifications for an affair, how can you not generally or specifically respond to these questions?

[Trialbyfire]

Then think of it this way. Supposing all happy relationships are equal... which may not be true... however lets consider it so at this point.

 

Your approach to relationships provides you the ability to to reach that happy mark with 50% of the male population. TBF's approach lowers that to 3% of the male population, making it much more difficult to find the right guy... and lowering the chance that it will work long term.

 

Of course I'm making up numbers to represent the overall idea as I see it.

I'm more than willing to take the risk of never finding the right person. I see no reason to settle for anything less and most definitely, will never settle for a weak partner.

 

I made it very clear earlier in the thread... and in other threads that I take each situation individually. I would only nominally attach the title of cheater to your SO. Like the difference between someone speeding 61 in a 60 vs. someone doing 110 in a 60. Yeah they are both speeding... but not in equal magnitudes.

Infidelity in the eyes of the law, have no grades. As a CS, you take your risks, when choosing to indulge.