Would extra effort in the bedroom stop the cheating?

[michaelk]

Gluttony is not a natural instinct if you can prove to me that it is then I think you have a lot of explaining to do to all those nutritionists that are fighting against obesity. So obese people are people who's bladders don't break down the food fast enough? since according to your logic we are all naturally proned to gorge on food why does obesity happen? Obesity would not be an illness or condition it should be the norm since our bodies were built to overindulge in food and drink intake.

Actually, Lakeside makes a very good point, IMO.

 

As for obesity, that is definitely a result of inbuilt eating instincts. For example, the diet of early humans was not high in fat. This is not by choice, it comes from the difficulty of obtaining fatty foods. Yet fat is essential for intake and storage of energy, so we crave it. Fast forward to modern society where fat is very easily obtainable. McDonalds, Ben & Jerry's and Frito Lay have all benefited from our desire to consume fat. Fatty foods taste good, and our cravings keep bringing us back for more - not by accident!

 

If we weren't built to want these types of foods, we wouldn't have such a hard time keeping the weight off!

[Mustang Sally]

maybe everyone actually agrees if examples are given.

I think there might be quite a lot of truth to this...

[Woggle]

Picking battles is not arguing about small stuff and not arguing about stuff that happened 10 years ago. I am not talking about cheating or abuse but if he forgot to take out the trash 10 years ago but since has taken out the trash everytime can't a woman let that one time go? People think I am being absurd but women really do hold resentments over this stuff.

[BetrayedMM]

Yes Woggle, that's what I call "The Library". No point anyone even trying to deny that it exists.

 

Real and imagined offenses are stored there, to be used at a future date to justify competition in the relationship; to counter logic during mutual decision making, sometimes even to be used as excuses for cheating.

 

But to answer the original question- Please, if your SO is cheating, don't sleep with them. If you do, they have their cake and... you know... plus, it's dangerous to your health. Don't get involved in sperm competition.

[sarme]

Sarme I read your posts with much interest. You don't say the hallmark moment, but sound very truthful and realistic.

 

Can you give examples of how you do the above? Does it involve cooking every night, packing lunch, wearing lingerie? Or something else?

 

And when you say the part about knowing when to pick battles, and when to bend-can you give some day to day examples?

 

Because if we are talking toothpaste cap arguments, or arguing about drunken binge all nighters that hubby needs to do (for example) , they are very different issues, and I like examples to understand. Also, examples are helpful because people may be interpreting things through their own filters, and maybe everyone actually agrees if examples are given.

 

Thanks Sarme.

 

Sure I don't mind giving examples.

 

Ok for instance one of the things that he claims allowed him to drift so far apart in his last relationship was the fact that both of them would just sit in coordial silence and harbour resentment from a distance pretending things were fine. when I see that he is being pensive and he is proned to retreive and shut out his emotions I patiently bring them out of him through affection and reassurance. A person's natural tendency when faced with resistance is to also pull away, I do the opposite and it works with him. I try to not get mad at him for holding back I just lovingly conitnue to be me around him when he pulls away. (it's hard to do especially after an argument but it is becoming a lot easier and I can see he does this too)

 

 

I give him his space but my affection and love for him does not go away. We women tend to use our affection and love as a tool to get what we want and that's wrong, when a man pulls away it does nothing to meet him with more resistance, a loving friend waits for him and understands that what he is going through could be his problem or our problem depending on what made him pull away. He tends to pull away when he feels hurt I am getting to know this about him and so I come after him instead of sitting there guessing what it could be. This is how he is and this is what he is accsutomed to and it does nothing for my relationship to sit on my highhorse saying "well stop being a baby and when you snap out if it you can come to me..." I don't want to waste time apart wondering what it could be so I lovingly get him to open up.

 

If we argue about something and we part on angry terms I swallow my pride and reach out to him even if I feel he is wrong (not always but I do it) I can teach him that my way was better or that I was right but I can only do that if he is on the same page as me, if we are angry with each other and in powerstruggle mode no one learns anything and all we do is harbour resentment towards one another from a far.

 

I am just a good friend to him, one that respects him and supports him and really listens to him, I let him be who he is, and he does the same if not more for me. We don't in crossing lines in arguments. We don't believe in duking it out and exchanging harsh words and then pretending that nothing was said, if you are going to exchange harsh insulting words or low blows those words don't get forgotten so easily once you make up. Once you cross boundaries of insults and low blows you can never EVER erase those comments again and once you put out an insult it's not comming off the plate. Respect is very important and how you nurture a good friendship.

If I look up to the man I don't make comments that demean him in a fight no matter what. and we try to resolve our differences and once we are ready to burry them we do, they don't come back again in another fight that is not fair and that is not healthy.

 

 

But here is the big one and what I love about this man and this is what makes our relationship so unique and our connection so strong. Whenever I feel threatened or jealous or insecure I flat out tell him something is making me feel that way, I am vulnerable with him. I can tell him, "the way you talk about the professor you met during your trip to X, made me feel super jealous" and we talk these things out. He puts my mind at ease and we usually end up laughing about the insecurity. Rather than pulling away and being all bitchy with him because I feel he did something inapropriate I flat out tell him and leave no room for confusion. I find that he is doing this with me more and more too, he opens up to me and now tells me when he is jealous or insecure. I am coming to realise he gets more insecure than I do, LOL so I have to put his mind at ease often but we do it in a loving way creating a safe environment to discuss our insecurities and leave the channel of communication very open.

 

 

I find a lot of the arguments that start in romantic relationships are less about the argument itself and more about unmet/untalked needs, jealousy and insecurity.

 

Women want to act so tough and unemotional and independant and then when push comes to shove we are the complete opposite. Recognizing that we do get emotional that we do get jealous and insecure saves a lot of hassles in the long run, because afterall that is what REAL men and women are about.

 

anyway I am sure I have not provided anything new on here but this is what I have learned along the way and this is how I want my relationship to be.

Edited January 8, 2008 by sarme

[Cobra_X30]

New or not... that is beautiful and rare!

[Florida]

Sarme, I wish I knew you 5 years ago! LOL, you must have went through a lot to be so wise, or maybe you were just born *lucky*....I am putting that in my inspirational quotes to refer to when needed.

 

See with all these words knocking around: submissive woman, bend to the man, etc i knew the real meanings were getting lost in misunderstood theories and misinterpretations.

 

Well, I'm humbled. I feel like in past arguments I was an ogre that was knocking around in a tea shop compared to what you wrote. I can only hope to apply that as well as you have, without letting the fear and insecurity be the guide any longer. (hopefully) Live and learn, live and learn.

 

Well you deserve your good relationship, you cetainly do know how to treat a guy, and in turn get treated well back.

 

 

Thanks for writing that out

Edited January 8, 2008 by Florida

[Trialbyfire]

Sweetly written sarme. Good luck with that...

 

Everyone has a tolerance level. You can suck it up 'til the cows come home but just remember, when you empower and enable bad behaviour, you'll continue paying the price for it.

 

There's a point where you stop rolling over and being accepting. I would personally call any man that has to withdraw, a flake. Either we stand together or you stand alone. Sayonara...

[sarme]

Sweetly written sarme. Good luck with that...

 

Everyone has a tolerance level. You can suck it up 'til the cows come home but just remember, when you empower and enable bad behaviour, you'll continue paying the price for it.

 

There's a point where you stop rolling over and being accepting. I would personally call any man that has to withdraw, a flake. Either we stand together or you stand alone. Sayonara...

 

 

Ok I respect my approach it is not for everyone.

 

I guess the main difference between you and me is that I cater to a real man as opposed to a made up one. I have actually taken the time to understand a man instead of writing him off because he doesn't meet all these imaginary expectations that I have created in my own head of what a "real man" is. Maybe if you had patiently taken the time to do the same you would have been able to keep your man from going into another woman's arms? I don't know I am not familiar with your story. The point of this thread is to explore what it is that chaces people away in relationships or what we can do to stop them from doing that. I want to do everything in my power to put all that love out and to get it back. If you train yourself to do it from the getgo it eventually doesn't feel like work, it becomes habit.

 

Personally TrialByFire, I think you missed the point because if you are truly giving the way I explained I give you should never feel like you are rolling over it just feels right to give because you get nothing but love in return.

You can't not be on the same page.

 

 

Cobra/Florida thanks. To answer your question Florida, there is no way you are born lucky you make your own luck, and yeah I have been through my fair share and have learned a thing or too along the way you learn where it hurts the most. ;-)

[Phateless]

I've posed this question in several threads lately, and it hasn't been answered. I am really curious to know. If the W of a CH put more effort into their lovemaking - wearing lingerie, teasing her H, giving him BJ's, etc. - would it satisfy him enough to where he would stop the cheating?

 

When I first came on LS, it struck me how the men who posted were all pretty much saying the same thing -- that what they REALLY want is their W back... the woman they married, not the staleness of what their M has become. They want HER, their W (not somebody else) to be more like the woman she was when they got married. They don't want to go outside the M, but felt they were forced to because their W was ignoring their needs.

 

Now I'm not so sure. Is it all about "wanting some strange"?? That even if you were married to a supermodel, you would get tired of it after awhile, and you just need somebody different to "feel alive again"?

 

Nearly all of the MM posting here claim that they still really love their W's and do not want to leave the M. If this is so, do they believe that it's POSSIBLE for the same woman to satisfy their sexual needs throughout their lifetime? And if she just put a little more effort into it, he'd be happy?

 

Or are we all doomed to suffer the male biological urge to spread their seed to as many women as possible?

 

I dunno... watch the movie "i think i love my wife" with chris rock. great movie, and it really explores the male perspective. i was with a girl for 5 years and i was very tempted to cheat, mostly because she was never in the mood. it was humiliating to be constantly rejected by the woman who claims to love you. it's pretty emasculating...

 

don't get me wrong i think cheating is wrong no matter what, but when you ignore your partners needs it leaves them more vulnerable to temptation, if tat makes sense?

[OpenBook]

I dunno... watch the movie "i think i love my wife" with chris rock. great movie, and it really explores the male perspective. i was with a girl for 5 years and i was very tempted to cheat, mostly because she was never in the mood. it was humiliating to be constantly rejected by the woman who claims to love you. it's pretty emasculating...

 

don't get me wrong i think cheating is wrong no matter what, but when you ignore your partners needs it leaves them more vulnerable to temptation, if tat makes sense?

 

Yes it does make sense. I'm adding this to my List of Awesome LS Quotes. Thanks!

[Trialbyfire]

Once again sarme, you're trapped in definition. Everyone has an acceptable minimum level bar, where mine appears to be much higher than yours. When you've grown up and dated "real" men, albeit fooled by an ex-H, your bar tends to remain fairly high.

 

These men exist. Don't be so willing to settle for less.

 

As for love. I don't give unconditional love. If I give love, I expect to get it in a "real" relationship. Mothering men doesn't give them enough credit, at all. It demeans them, IMO.

[OpenBook]

anyway I am sure I have not provided anything new on here but this is what I have learned along the way and this is how I want my relationship to be.

 

Sarme, you are what they used to call a "Cool Chick"... Awesome post!

[Phateless]

Yes it does make sense. I'm adding this to my List of Awesome LS Quotes. Thanks!

 

Thanks!

 

TBF - what do you mean by minimum bar? Minimum for what you will accept in a mate, or are you referring people's differing definition of the threshold for what constitutes cheating?

[Trialbyfire]

Minimum for what you will accept in a mate

This would the bar I'm referring to, because my definition of a "real" man has sufficient self-esteem that he won't cheat and doesn't require mothering or pandering to.

 

An equal partner Phateless, not a dominant/subordinate or a Peter Pan/Wendy relationship.

[Phateless]

This would the bar I'm referring to, because my definition of a "real" man has sufficient self-esteem that he won't cheat and doesn't require mothering or pandering to.

 

An equal partner Phateless, not a dominant/subordinate or a Peter Pan/Wendy relationship.

 

Totally agree, that's what I'm looking for too. Part of that happens to be sex, and if sex isn't happening, I expect her to be enough of a woman to talk to me about it and tell me what's wrong, instead of denying me and it expecting it not to *&%$ with my head. <steps off soapbox> sorry bout that, rant over.

[Trialbyfire]

Totally agree, that's what I'm looking for too. Part of that happens to be sex, and if sex isn't happening, I expect her to be enough of a woman to talk to me about it and tell me what's wrong, instead of denying me and it expecting it not to *&%$ with my head. <steps off soapbox> sorry bout that, rant over.

Once again, we agree. Clear communication. None of this emotional or physical withdrawal. Discuss it, then let it go.

 

Resentment builds when there isn't open communication and resolution of issues. If one partner withdraws, you can be guaranteed that sooner or later, it's going to hit the fan.

[sarme]

don't get me wrong i think cheating is wrong no matter what, but when you ignore your partners needs it leaves them more vulnerable to temptation, if tat makes sense?

 

That makes sense to me!

 

 

Openbook: thanks for the nice words!

[Cobra_X30]

Agreed. What makes me weak at the knees is someone who knows himself. No b/s, can peel me back when I'm being unreasonable but can also take being peeled back when they are experiencing twisted panty moments. No whining or butt-hurt feelings, over a clash of words.

 

Listen. I'm the type of guy that has an unwaivering self confidence... so much so that I'm not afraid to be wrong sometimes, and I take criticism in stride.

 

But the kind of interaction your describing... I'm sorry but it gets old quick. Hurtful words said in anger can not be taken back. While your not going to hurt my feelings... I will begin to see you as less valuable to me. Eventually, I will terminate a relationship like this. Not because I fail the 'true man' test... but because I like myself enough I'm not going to put up with someone who cannot handle thier business like a grown woman should.

 

This would the bar I'm referring to, because my definition of a "real" man has sufficient self-esteem that he won't cheat and doesn't require mothering or pandering to.

 

An equal partner Phateless, not a dominant/subordinate or a Peter Pan/Wendy relationship.

 

Communism sounds good on paper too. Listen... I've been in a relationship similar to what you describe. Loved it at first... but it got old real quick. I've found that Sarme is closer to what works. It's because if you cannot bend for each other... you will break. There will come a situation where nobody is right and neither can agree.

 

Make sure its not pride talking.

[Trialbyfire]

Listen. I'm the type of guy that has an unwaivering self confidence... so much so that I'm not afraid to be wrong sometimes, and I take criticism in stride.

 

But the kind of interaction your describing... I'm sorry but it gets old quick. Hurtful words said in anger can not be taken back. While your not going to hurt my feelings... I will begin to see you as less valuable to me. Eventually, I will terminate a relationship like this. Not because I fail the 'true man' test... but because I like myself enough I'm not going to put up with someone who cannot handle thier business like a grown woman should.

Since there were no examples given of the type of relationship you're referring to, where do you get off on assumptions?

 

Ah yes, hurtful words. Define those Cobra. Give me a break. If I told you, you were being ridiculous about whining, would that scar you for life?

 

Communism sounds good on paper too. Listen... I've been in a relationship similar to what you describe. Loved it at first... but it got old real quick. I've found that Sarme is closer to what works. It's because if you cannot bend for each other... you will break. There will come a situation where nobody is right and neither can agree.

 

Make sure its not pride talking.

If you demand a dominant/subordinate relationship, that's your call. Maybe you need a Peter Pan/Wendy relationship, once again, your call. If sarme's way of pandering works for you, that's great!! I'm not sarme and can guarantee I will never get involved with a MM, in an affair situation, taking what's not mine to take. If that's the type of woman that "works" for you, I'm happy for you. Really. It's your life and your call. It's most definitely not my concept of an acceptable partnership.

 

Make sure it's not pride talking...

[sarme]

Once again sarme, you're trapped in definition. Everyone has an acceptable minimum level bar, where mine appears to be much higher than yours. When you've grown up and dated "real" men, albeit fooled by an ex-H, your bar tends to remain fairly high.

 

These men exist. Don't be so willing to settle for less.

 

As for love. I don't give unconditional love. If I give love, I expect to get it in a "real" relationship. Mothering men doesn't give them enough credit, at all. It demeans them, IMO.

 

I think the grown up thing to do is to get off the demand pedestal and be proactive in finding common ground with another human being who is made of their own set of characteristics and philosophies. If you set a "bar" of demand you make it impossible for people to achieve that because the bar is created from a place of destitution, not self esteem.

 

Sitting on a highhorse shouting down orders at a loved one is a fast road to nowherville That to me is more demeaning than actually taking the time out to understand someone.

 

Sometimes people get so used to being a certain way because that is all they have learned given the dynamic that they had in past relationships. In my situation here was a man that was rewarded with more silence when he withdrew, how could he not think it is fine to do that? He is also a man who desperately wanted to be reached out to but kept banging his head against a brick wall because his W was too nonexpressive or too cold to care. I know he has it in him to want to be open and expressive when something is wrong he was just not given a chance to because when this would happen he was met with great indifference and sometimes even agression. "Everthying is fine, what do you want dinner?"

 

I think if the potential is there to let him explore what it's like to be able to tune in to those feelings and act out on them when need be, why not explore that with him together?

 

I would never see that as a waste of time, I learn a lot from this relationship myself and afterall we learn most about ourselves in how we deal with our closest relationships.

 

You see it as mothering a baby, I see it as a win win. You are probably right that I am trapped in a definition but I would say the exact same about you. Only my definition benefits both me and him, not my screaming inner child.

[Trialbyfire]

sarme, I guess that's how affairs start. Empowering weak men by pandering and stroking egos.

 

Men are men. They are accountable for themselves, as women are accountable for themselves.

 

I don't think you really understand what a true partnership is, if you believe it's about shouting down instructions. That's really sad that you believe it's the inner child screaming, instead of believing in your own self-worth. It's about working together, being able to communicate clearly. Listening.

 

It's not about withdrawing when life gets too rough. If you want a man who will hide behind your apron, instead of standing beside you and duking it out against the world together, that's your choice.

 

It's not my choice. I want a partner.

[sarme]

Listen. I'm the type of guy that has an unwaivering self confidence... so much so that I'm not afraid to be wrong sometimes, and I take criticism in stride.

 

But the kind of interaction your describing... I'm sorry but it gets old quick. Hurtful words said in anger can not be taken back. While your not going to hurt my feelings... I will begin to see you as less valuable to me. Eventually, I will terminate a relationship like this. Not because I fail the 'true man' test... but because I like myself enough I'm not going to put up with someone who cannot handle thier business like a grown woman should.

 

 

 

That is exactly what I read in her comment too and I got the same impression. thanks for clarifying what happens to a man after a while of this, and how he loses respect for a woman that does this to him. the part I bolded in your post I am sure a lot of men can relate to, and is what I felt when I wrote my post.

 

My b/f cheated on his wife and we both have regrets about how we met what he did etc. but that which you just described up there was exactly how he felt about his W when he was on his way out. We met at that specific time, you can figure out the rest.

 

because this:

 

No whining or butt-hurt feelings, over a clash of words.

 

screams of a relationship that has lost all respect for one another.

 

 

If that is that high bar that you keep speaking of TrialByFire, then I'll take my "low" standards anyday.

[Cobra_X30]

Since there were no examples given of the type of relationship you're referring to, where do you get off on assumptions?

 

Ah yes, hurtful words. Define those Cobra. Give me a break. If I told you, you were being ridiculous about whining, would that scar you for life?

 

If you demand a dominant/subordinate relationship, that's your call. Maybe you need a Peter Pan/Wendy relationship, once again, your call. If sarme's way of pandering works for you, that's great!! I'm not sarme and can guarantee I will never get involved with a MM, in an affair situation, taking what's not mine to take. If that's the type of woman that "works" for you, I'm happy for you. Really. It's your life and your call. It's most definitely not my concept of an acceptable partnership.

 

Make sure it's not pride talking...

 

Like I said there is nothing you can do or say that is going to really hurt my feelings. If you tell me I'm bieng ridiculous... no problems. If you say the same words in a disrespectful tone... your going to reduce your value to me plain and simple. Do it enough... and I'd move on.

 

Honestly I'm not going to debate this with you further because your not really wrong... your simply going to have a low probability of long term success trying to get that kind of relationship with that type of man.

 

In regards to Sarme... I dont think she took or stole anybody. I think she met a man who was already out the door, and heading to the driveway keys in hand.

 

For me... I want my woman to act like a woman. If I wanted a man... I'd go after a man. Get me?

[sarme]

If you want a man who will hide behind your apron, instead of standing beside you and duking it out against the world together, that's your choice.

 

It's not my choice. I want a partner.

 

 

Sorry but it sounds more like you want a boxing buddy that you can slap around a few times when he steps out of line or does something that does not meet your standards and tell him to "man-up" when he is down, in order for your knees to get weak.

That's not a partner that's a lackey.