How do you handle your religious beliefs in an affair?

[bentnotbroken]

Ain't that the truth! Life would be so boring if we all thought the same!

 

 

 

Amen, to that.

[Cobra_X30]

From what I get, GEL is what she strives to be. Maybe we don't get how someone can be happy living GEL's life, but she says she is, so without any other information, I have no reason to try and convince her otherwise. I also realize that her choices have nothing to do with me or my personal moral code. That doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion about the issue. Some of the best insight on life comes from talking to people that have different views.

 

That is what I gathered also.

 

Happy or not... I do not think that a person should strive for imperfection. That sounds like giving up doesnt it? Better to shoot for the moon and miss than to aim for a pile of poo and hit!

 

You believe that all moral codes are different? That it's all dependant upon perspective and relativity?

 

I say not so much. Since we are speaking of religion here... read Matt 22:36-37. Is that not exactly what morality is?

[Owl]

I wasn't thinking of the "tree falling" thing...but that DOES match right up with what I was gonna say!!!

 

The difference between "perception" and "reality".

 

An affair is REAL. Its a relationship between two people, with full blown emotions just like any other relationship. Each person experiences love (as a feeling...see the other thread for more detail) for the other. And in any relationship, all feelings for another person are based on our "perception" of that person.

 

Where the real vs fantasy comes in when talking about marriages vs affairs is how the 'perception' of the each other comes about. People call affairs a fantasy (i.e...not real) because those perceptions are based less off of actual experience in the day to day grind as happens in a 'normal' relationship, and more about what the affair partners 'wants the other person to be'.

 

When you're "in love"...all the things about the person you're in love with that you normally wouldn't like are minimized, and all the things you normally would like about them are maximized. (this isn't limited to affairs...this is the 'in love' state of any relationship) You're not "perceiving" that person as everyone else does...some people call it "affair goggles" (not to be confused with "beer goggles", although there are numerous similarities! )

 

And people involved in affairs often don't truly give thought about what the impacts to those around them are going to be...they often minimize the negative aspects of the affair to themselves, and maximize what they believe the positives will be.

 

To outsiders, they don't see it anywhere near the same way as the affairees do...its a "fantasy"...not reality.

 

BTW...I DO believe what I'm saying. Also...even a "total eclipse" doesn't entirely block ALL of the light...remember how you can see the sun's corona around the outside of the moon? Not to mention its only "total" for a small portion of our planet...the rest of the planet has various portions of the sun's surface still visible...hence its impacted by all that light...and reflecting that back up into our moisture-laden atmosphere, which causes said light to reflect and refract to various degrees throughout the globe. If it didn't...it would be a heck of a lot darker at night on Earth than it gets now.

[OWoman]

Actually, not a bad idea. Lets have even more fun. Take a look at this idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

 

You're all just argumentative bits of my own mind, and exist for no other reason than because I SAY SO!!!

 

:D :D

 

Hey come on Owl, I was expecting Plato's Cave:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

[bentnotbroken]

That is what I gathered also.

 

Happy or not... I do not think that a person should strive for imperfection. That sounds like giving up doesnt it? Better to shoot for the moon and miss than to aim for a pile of poo and hit!

 

You believe that all moral codes are different? That it's all dependant upon perspective and relativity?

 

I say not so much. Since we are speaking of religion here... read Matt 22:36-37. Is that not exactly what morality is?

 

 

And 38-40 add the rest. Loving your neighbor as yourself. Why would you want to hurt? So why hurt your fellow man, intentionally?

[bish]

I guess DAVID (Bible) was not religious, he just loved the Lord....read the Bible and learn just how many people loved the Lord and unfortunately fell short...good grief!

 

he can love the lord all he wants, if he is involved in an affair, he can't claim to be all that religious.

 

But I digress, I'm not religious...I just don't like the hypocrisy.

I mean really...people that claim to be so moral and religious and "love the Lord"....ah..but then turn around and boff someone's spouse or cheat on their own.

[Tomcat33]

I wasn't thinking of the "tree falling" thing...but that DOES match right up with what I was gonna say!!!

 

The difference between "perception" and "reality".

 

An affair is REAL. Its a relationship between two people, with full blown emotions just like any other relationship. Each person experiences love (as a feeling...see the other thread for more detail) for the other. And in any relationship, all feelings for another person are based on our "perception" of that person.

 

Where the real vs fantasy comes in when talking about marriages vs affairs is how the 'perception' of the each other comes about. People call affairs a fantasy (i.e...not real) because those perceptions are based less off of actual experience in the day to day grind as happens in a 'normal' relationship, and more about what the affair partners 'wants the other person to be'.

 

When you're "in love"...all the things about the person you're in love with that you normally wouldn't like are minimized, and all the things you normally would like about them are maximized. (this isn't limited to affairs...this is the 'in love' state of any relationship) You're not "perceiving" that person as everyone else does...some people call it "affair goggles" (not to be confused with "beer goggles", although there are numerous similarities! )

 

And people involved in affairs often don't truly give thought about what the impacts to those around them are going to be...they often minimize the negative aspects of the affair to themselves, and maximize what they believe the positives will be.

 

To outsiders, they don't see it anywhere near the same way as the affairees do...its a "fantasy"...not reality.

 

BTW...I DO believe what I'm saying. Also...even a "total eclipse" doesn't entirely block ALL of the light...remember how you can see the sun's corona around the outside of the moon? Not to mention its only "total" for a small portion of our planet...the rest of the planet has various portions of the sun's surface still visible...hence its impacted by all that light...and reflecting that back up into our moisture-laden atmosphere, which causes said light to reflect and refract to various degrees throughout the globe. If it didn't...it would be a heck of a lot darker at night on Earth than it gets now.

 

You missed the point completely. try not to get caught up in semantics

 

While you are very good at giving thorough scientific explanations about love and light, if you're of the idea that faith stands on its own and that perception is based on faith and that there is no need to see factual evidence that things are as they are in order for a perception to be formed, then you really don't need to explain any of what you just explained because you of all people should not need facts to explain your stance, you believe what you believe and that's that. Isn't that what believing in god and morality is?

 

Therefore we are talking in circles, either you need facts to have faith or you don't so which is it? An affair is not a fantasy it is a reality so why do you need facts to counter my argument?

 

I see a lot of contradiction OWL, a LOT.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Tomcat33

[Cobra_X30]

And 38-40 add the rest. Loving your neighbor as yourself. Why would you want to hurt? So why hurt your fellow man, intentionally?

 

Whoops, I meant the whole thing.

 

Can you post the whole thing here... so nobody has to go look it up?

[herenow]

That is what I gathered also.

 

You believe that all moral codes are different? That it's all dependant upon perspective and relativity?

 

My personal belief is that there "should" be a moral code that humans live by. That code should include honesty and respect for others and how our actions effect others.

 

If there is anything I have learned from LS is that there are many people who disagree with my opinion.

[Tomcat33]

My personal belief is that there "should" be a moral code that humans live by. That code should include honesty and respect for others and how our actions effect others.

 

If there is anything I have learned from LS is that there are many people who disagree with my opinion.

 

 

I totally agree with that! We should all strive for that. But no one is perfect and we all fall into the trap of disrespecting thy neighbour I've seen you do it quite a few times here with the things you say as I'm sure you have seen me do the same.

 

So what is respecting others? Does respect have boundaries? does it only begin and end with not sleeping with other's partners? We need to define respect. OR is respect dependant only on what we get in return?

[Cobra_X30]

My personal belief is that there "should" be a moral code that humans live by. That code should include honesty and respect for others and how our actions effect others.

 

If there is anything I have learned from LS is that there are many people who disagree with my opinion.

 

There will always be those who kick fight and scratch at the idea that they cannot do what they wish regardless of the consequences to others. That does not make them right.

 

There is such a thing as universal morality. Those who deny it simply lack the ability to truely care for others beyond themselves.

[bentnotbroken]

I think respect begins with treating other people the way that you want to be treated. The way you would like to see your parents or children treated. I think it begins in the heart with empathy and grows from that. If my only goal in life is to do what is good for me,then I can't begin to comprehend what respect is for others.

 

Respect of life, of property,of feelings, of beliefs and certainly of others boundaries.

[herenow]

I totally agree with that! We should all strive for that. But no one is perfect and we all fall into the trap of disrespecting thy neighbour I've seen you do it quite a few times here with the things you say as I'm sure you have seen me do the same.

 

So what is respecting others? Does respect have boundaries? does it only begin and end with not sleeping with other's partners? We need to define respect. OR is respect dependant only on what we get in return?

 

I know that you are aware that when I post, I'm clear that I'm posting my opinion. I respect that others may disagree with my opinion. I don't find disagreement disrespectful. If I would insist that someone live their life my way just because I state that my way is the only way, that is not respecting others right to choose for themselves. I would never and have never done such a thing. I do agree that I may have stated my opinion in a less than respectful way, but I'm trying to refrain from doing that anymore.

[OWoman]

There is such a thing as universal morality. Those who deny it simply lack the ability to truely care for others beyond themselves.

 

Name a single moral that is universal - that every single culture agrees is right (or wrong, your choice).

[bentnotbroken]

Whoops, I meant the whole thing.

 

Can you post the whole thing here... so nobody has to go look it up?

 

 

Matt. 22:36-40

[Tomcat33]

I think respect begins with treating other people the way that you want to be treated. The way you would like to see your parents or children treated. I think it begins in the heart with empathy and grows from that. If my only goal in life is to do what is good for me,then I can't begin to comprehend what respect is for others.

 

Respect of life, of property,of feelings, of beliefs and certainly of others boundaries.

 

 

I would have to agree with everything you just said, in fact I would go as far to say that this is pretty much my code of conduct or at least the code of conduct I aim for, my spritual need is for that.

 

I also have recognise that sometimes this code is broken and we fall behind. thanks or "due" to that, we are here in this particular medium having this discussion, because at some point in our lives we did fall behind. Well some have fallen, others have suffered the reprecutions of other's falls but the bottom line is that to kicking a person when they are down is not doing anything for the betterment of the person in question, or themselves.

 

Help and respect is putting all your selfish needs aside and reaching out unconditionally it's not saying, "well you disrespected me and therefore I why should you get any respect from me"

 

I'm sorry but I see this a LOT from people from either camp on here, so then let's call a spade a spade shall we? But the difference is that the "evil" camp does not profess to be somehting they are not they have accepted their reality and live with a fair sense of awareness of the self at least. given what is demonstrated here by some, I can't really say the same for the "angel" camp. I see "angel goals", with evil actions in some.

 

Everything we do boils down to how things make us feel and everything that we act upon is also influenced by our own notions based on our past pain and pleasure, so in theory it is beautiful to strive towards an idea that should act selflessly but MOST, and I am confident in saying MOST, dont cut it even close to that. At least that is what I see around here.

 

I am neither evil nor an angel, I am a human being who makes mistakes and aims to not repeat them, but I don't kid myself that I live my life for the good of others, I accept that I live my life for my own good. Call it selfish and wrong, but it is what it is...

[Owl]

Sorry if I appear to be talking in circles. Let me clear it up.

 

I believe in light, because I can see the affects of it on the world around me. I believe in God, for the same reasons.

 

I believe that affairs are often a fantasy because they are normally built on false perceptions by those involved in them.

 

I use facts to prove my points because no one should give a darn about my opinion by itself.

 

Did I miss anything?

[Tomcat33]

Sorry if I appear to be talking in circles. Let me clear it up.

 

I believe in light, because I can see the affects of it on the world around me. I believe in God, for the same reasons.

 

I believe that affairs are often a fantasy because they are normally built on false perceptions by those involved in them.

 

I use facts to prove my points because no one should give a darn about my opinion by itself.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

 

You keep missing what I just bolded, if no one should give a darn about opinion alone without facts surely you can understand why so many people don't give a darn about the "word of god" OR the moral code others choose.

 

Class dismissed?

[Owl]

Well, a 'fact' would be that when someone's moral code causes them to decide that my marriage is meaningless therefore its perfectly fine to pursue and sleep with my wife causes ME pain as a direct result of THEIR action.

 

We all seem to agree that no one should force 'their moral code' on us.

 

But we refuse to accept responsibilty for their pain and suffering when we intentionally do it to them.

[bentnotbroken]

I would have to agree with everything you just said, in fact I would go as far to say that this is pretty much my code of conduct or at least the code of conduct I aim for, my spritual need is for that.

 

I also have recognise that sometimes this code is broken and we fall behind. thanks or "due" to that, we are here in this particular medium having this discussion, because at some point in our lives we did fall behind. Well some have fallen, others have suffered the reprecutions of other's falls but the bottom line is that to kicking a person when they are down is not doing anything for the betterment of the person in question, or themselves.

 

Help and respect is putting all your selfish needs aside and reaching out unconditionally it's not saying, "well you disrespected me and therefore I why should you get any respect from me"

 

I'm sorry but I see this a LOT from people from either camp on here, so then let's call a spade a spade shall we? But the difference is that the "evil" camp does not profess to be somehting they are not they have accepted their reality and live with a fair sense of awareness of the self at least. given what is demonstrated here by some, I can't really say the same for the "angel" camp. I see "angel goals", with evil actions in some.

 

Everything we do boils down to how things make us feel and everything that we act upon is also influenced by our own notions based on our past pain and pleasure, so in theory it is beautiful to strive towards an idea that should act selflessly but MOST, and I am confident in saying MOST, dont cut it even close to that. At least that is what I see around here.

 

I am neither evil nor an angel, I am a human being who makes mistakes and aims to not repeat them, but I don't kid myself that I live my life for the good of others, I accept that I live my life for my own good. Call it selfish and wrong, but it is what it is...

 

 

You are self aware and if that is enough for you,then has to be enough for others.

[bentnotbroken]

Well, a 'fact' would be that when someone's moral code causes them to decide that my marriage is meaningless therefore its perfectly fine to pursue and sleep with my wife causes ME pain as a direct result of THEIR action.

 

We all seem to agree that no one should force 'their moral code' on us.

 

But we refuse to accept responsibilty for their pain and suffering when we intentionally do it to them.

 

 

 

Others moral codes infringed on my moral code. When she came into my home, my bed, my children's beds, and slept with the man I married, she didn't respect me, my children, my home, her husband, her children or my beliefs. She did what she felt was right for her and she did it to the detriment of my family. O.K. I accept that, but I do not accept her disrespect of my family or her trying to impose her beliefs into my life, by being in my home.

[herenow]

Others moral codes infringed on my moral code. When she came into my home, my bed, my children's beds, and slept with the man I married, she didn't respect me, my children, my home, her husband, her children or my beliefs. She did what she felt was right for her and she did it to the detriment of my family. O.K. I accept that, but I do not accept her disrespect of my family or her trying to impose her beliefs into my life, by being in my home.

 

Here is where the hypocrisy comes in. When an OW is having an affair with the MM, some feel that they own nothing to the BW. The idea that the OW didn't make any promises seems to absolved them from any duty of respect to the wife. That is the moral code of this kind of OW.

 

However when the BW finds out and treats the OW poorly, how dare she!!! Even if the BW is acting according to her own moral code, that's just not OK with the OW. The BW is wrong and the OW is the victim because the BW doesn't see things the way the OW feels she should.

 

This is not always the case, but it is many times what happens.

[Tomcat33]

Here is where the hypocrisy comes in. When an OW is having an affair with the MM, some feel that they own nothing to the BW. The idea that the OW didn't make any promises seems to absolved them from any duty of respect to the wife. That is the moral code of this kind of OW.

 

However when the BW finds out and treats the OW poorly, how dare she!!! Even if the BW is acting according to her own moral code, that's just not OK with the OW. The BW is wrong and the OW is the victim because the BW doesn't see things the way the OW feels she should.

 

This is not always the case, but it is many times what happens.

 

 

No double standards here, I took what was coming to me in my situation from aaaaall angles.

 

However I didnt't sleep with your husband, why have you been rude and insulting to me in the past?

 

That was an open question not directed at you specifically HN but you are more than welcome to answer as well.

[whichwayisup]

However I didnt't sleep with your husband, why have you been rude and insulting to me in the past?

 

This goes both ways. Many OW and many BS have both been rude to eachother, one feeds off the other and then things spin out of control. EVERY SINGLE person here has their own moods, emotions and some take things out of context, rightfully so, and some take it with a grain of salt. Some react big time, and some don't at all. The bottomline is, what one puts out there, sometimes they get it thrown back their way.

[Tomcat33]

This goes both ways. Many OW and many BS have both been rude to eachother, one feeds off the other and then things spin out of control. EVERY SINGLE person here has their own moods, emotions and some take things out of context, rightfully so, and some take it with a grain of salt. Some react big time, and some don't at all. The bottomline is, what one puts out there, sometimes they get it thrown back their way.

 

You missed my point because the point is I am not claiming I live my life "unselfishly" for the good of others because that is what my moral code tells me to do.

 

that's the difference between YOU and ME.

 

I know what I am, do you know what you are?