How do you handle your religious beliefs in an affair?

[herenow]

No double standards here, I took what was coming to me in my situation from aaaaall angles.

 

However I didnt't sleep with your husband, why have you been rude and insulting to me in the past?

 

That was an open question not directed at you specifically HN but you are more than welcome to answer as well.

 

You'll have to remind me when I've been rude to you in the past. If you consider me defending my position about the fact that I will never have an affair and will never condenser affairs to be moral, rude, then yes, I'm rude.

 

But, please, let me know when this happened so that I can apologize if I was out of line. I don't think you have been rude to me, I just think we are very different and we disagree on many things.

[Cobra_X30]

Name a single moral that is universal - that every single culture agrees is right (or wrong, your choice).

 

Is this the Polish system? Does every single person in the world have to agree to make it true?

 

I think you have spent too much time studying metaphysics.

[Moose]

How do you handle your religious beliefs in an affair?

This is an easy one, I don't know what all of the hoopla is all about.....

 

You abandon one, or the other.....period!

[OWoman]

Does every single person in the world have to agree to make it true?

 

No, but every culture would have to agree to make it "universal".

 

I gather by your response that you don't have even a single "universal moral" to cite?

[herenow]

No double standards here, I took what was coming to me in my situation from aaaaall angles.

 

However I didnt't sleep with your husband, why have you been rude and insulting to me in the past?

 

That was an open question not directed at you specifically HN but you are more than welcome to answer as well.

 

Also, re read the post and you will see that I say this is not always the case. And I really don't understand why you would have to have slept with my H for me to make my point.

 

I will come back later, I have a soccer game to go to.

 

See ya, have a great day!

[Tomcat33]

You'll have to remind me when I've been rude to you in the past. If you consider me defending my position about the fact that I will never have an affair and will never condenser affairs to be moral, rude, then yes, I'm rude.

 

But, please, let me know when this happened so that I can apologize if I was out of line. I don't think you have been rude to me, I just think we are very different and we disagree on many things.

 

 

I know I have definitely been rude if not to you to someone at some point on here. I have no doubt about that.

 

I would never ask you to apologise, and even less about being different than myself I do find it funny that you need to have someone point out the possibility that at some point in your time here you must have said something that was hurtful or rude to someone and you feel you've never done this. Especially given that earlier in this same conversation you said you are trying to change that very thing. But if you say you haven't it must be true....

 

Anyway, I think my point has been conveyed. Unless you can honestly say that you live your life to the T of what your code of conduct demands, I really don't think it is your place at ALL to be reminding others of their neglect of their personal code of conduct. (this was a general "you" not anyone in particular)

 

So if you demonstrate that you cannot follow your own moral code in your actions then also expect to be dismissed when you try to tell others what is right and wrong because the bottom line is people don't respect those who don't practice what they preach.

 

It's so basic yet so often overlooked around here.

[Owl]

I can see your point about not policing others on their moral code. What about keeping their moral codes from impacting MY life? (You know, kinda like getting your chocolate in MY peanut butter! )

[Tomcat33]

I can see your point about not policing others on their moral code. What about keeping their moral codes from impacting MY life? (You know, kinda like getting your chocolate in MY peanut butter! )

 

I totally agree OWL, I was going to respond to your post earlier about hurting a third party. this is what I call living the personal consecuences of my actions. I lived the consecuences of my actions for hurting an innocent bystander along the way. Of course she doens't know this because she wasn't there when it happened, nor does she care how I feel utlimately as she shouldn't. But it is something I will have to carry with me for the rest of my days. Do I feel responisble for breaking up a marriage? NOT IN THE LEAST. Do I feel rotten and have done my fair share of soul searching to deal with the fact that I hurt a person that I had never even met more than once, you bet!

 

Chocolate is pretty darn good, and so is peanutbutter but chocolate dippen in peanutbutter is MAGNIFICENT! Sorry that was perhaps not a great analogy since I love chocolate and p/b, plus it's the end of the day and I am getting peckish!

[SerenityX2]

Tomcat:

 

Regarding my pi$$ing match comment...can you honestly say it doesn't turn into those kinds of heated debates on many threads when it's the "us against them" mentality? I just really can't see the aggrivation of doing that when someone seems to be digging in their heels and not going to budge on their point anyway.

 

Ooooh boy, regarding the Jev Witness...we'll they are gravely off track...and trust me Tomcat you aren't going to like my answer for why that's my belief...but okay short version...the RC church is the 1st church...the rest branched from that. Big part is Lutheran...he didn't like certain parts of the bible..so he interpreted to his meaning..(mostly the whole faith alone arguement) ..buuuut now you can say the Catholics can't even agree...the eastern schism...and then we can go into some of the horrid popes, how could that happen...and on and on...THIS is a very heated topic that I didn't care to get into. Truthfully I don't even know how to explain in a short version why I drew my conclusions...however it has much to do with the church in it's true understanding has held together for over 2000 years...not everyone, and probably no one on this site is going to agree with "all the church stands for" and that's okay but I did a TON..aka YEARS of research back and forth this arguement to that arguement and found my answers and am very happy with them..I understand this wouldn't work for everyone.

 

If you think I am acting superior b/c I don't want to engage in a discussion...that's not it at all. For one thing on religion you have to find your own path guided from God...I do not judge others...I don't think ppl from other beliefs are going to burn in hell or whatever...If you ask me do I think that the RC church is the 1st church and the one that Christ left when he said "on this rock I build my church" ...yes...but see that's the thing...ppl can interpret the bible to their own understanding. Nevertheless...my best friend is a Lutheran...I have another friend who is agonist/atheist (not sure anymore!) I don't love her any less...I don't try to convert her. Oh and do I think there are some Catholics that profess to have it right that have it wrong?...you bet, there's many misconceptions about it...it's not (at least my parish) the fear and shame that can be assoc...it's the God is love....(I had to find a faith, even if that meant converting that made me "on fire" for the Lord and even after exploring others I will say "for me" I found that...doesn't mean I think I'm superior just diff beliefs)

 

Okay....see why I didn't want to get into this?...I can write absolute books and who has time to read that? Bear w/me...I'll continue my thoughts on the orig topic in the next thread!

[SerenityX2]

Alrighty,

 

I responded to the OP in the way that the bible is...not even RC or any other religion.

 

I totally agree w/Owl that people will take bits and pieces of what suits them and twist it and take this passage or that and say "SEE??? I'm right!!!" and it's taken out of context.

 

I want to help in just that way....not that I'm "morally superior" but I want to help my brother/sister on the road...on the path to our true home...b/c I believe that where we are here is just the short stopover...a test if you will...I believe that I have to answer at the end of my days "what have you done for my people?" ...that has been placed on my heart...do I think everyone has to answer that particular q? No, absolutely not, God gives us gifts and if we ask him he will guide us how to best use them for his glory...(not mine)...what you are good at...I may be not and so on.

 

In no way do I think I'm superior...I am humble..the very definition of that is "lower than..." ...it's "but by the grace of God go I...." I am truly humbled that I have had my eyes opened to his truth..and to go and try to be a witness of that through my life and experiences. I am definitely no better than anyone else...I am a servant for the Lord...one of the hardest (b/c we as a whole want to hold onto the reigns" was to surrender myself to him...in otherwords "I" died...I live for him ...so he can live in me...am I making any sense now?

 

Absolutely right that none of us are perfect and all are sinners...I do however ask for forgiveness and try to do better according to his will and plan...and lastly I don't "feel" sorry for you...again darn posting that doesn't come across right. I said I am sorry...in other words I feel human compassion for someone when I say I'm sorry...so since you are ok w/your feelings on the RC church perhaps that was worded wrong, so I apologize.

 

I guess too...I do embrace the RC church and it's really cool when another (esp adult) becomes baptized into it...there are many layers to the church from all the sacraments to how you can keep growing (we have Life in the Spirit seminars)...it's not how many perceive the RC church it's actually very loving...but you'd have to want that...and again I'm not telling anyone they should...people work from a place in their heart...and where God guides them. So again, in case I get misinterpretted...this is right for me...the other faiths have people that are just as God filled and loving...and then of course you have some that feel all the Catholics will burn in hell b/c of the pope so what can you do?

 

I mean to say that I hope you find/have peace and happiness...it didn't seem that you did b/c you seemed to attack me from how I 1st came across...I want everyone to be happy!!!! I have found true happiness so I want that for others (BNB said that better but I agree!)

 

My point is also...God doesn't condemn for what we don't know (to go to the Jev Wit) or people that are just trying to live their life with respect for others..but where it gets sticky is when you say...I know what's right..or what's in the 10 commandments...or you start snipping out certain bible passages to suit your needs...and then say "too bad...I want what I want anyway. We were never promised a bowel of cherries...and following his path is quite hard at times and we stumble and fall...but by his grace we are picked back up and we trudge on...learning and trying to help others.

 

Does that clear it up for you?

[Cobra_X30]

No, but every culture would have to agree to make it "universal".

 

I gather by your response that you don't have even a single "universal moral" to cite?

 

Maybe this is a language barrier. Go get a dictionary and look up universal! If 99% of the world agrees, then it affects the remaining 1%, and thereby makes it universal. You could be the lone holdout... and its still universal by definition.

 

Also, by your question it seems you did not look up the moral I was originally citing. Here... simply this.

 

'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

 

All morals come from this principle. Despite your feelings, it is universal.

[Tomcat33]

bowel of cherries.[/b]..and following his path is quite hard at times and we stumble and fall...but by his grace we are picked back up and we trudge on...learning and trying to help others.

 

Does that clear it up for you?

 

I have to run but will respond to your posts at a later time, in the meantime I just wanted to say I wish we WERE promised a bowel of cherries it would be so much more pleasant than our current intestinal situation! :laugh:

 

Have a good night everyone.

[bentnotbroken]

I have to run but will respond to your posts at a later time, in the meantime I just wanted to say I wish we WERE promised a bowel of cherries it would be so much more pleasant than our current intestinal situation! :laugh:

 

Have a good night everyone.

 

 

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[herenow]

I do find it funny that you need to have someone point out the possibility that at some point in your time here you must have said something that was hurtful or rude to someone and you feel you've never done this. Especially given that earlier in this same conversation you said you are trying to change that very thing. But if you say you haven't it must be true....

 

Anyway, I think my point has been conveyed. Unless you can honestly say that you live your life to the T of what your code of conduct demands, I really don't think it is your place at ALL to be reminding others of their neglect of their personal code of conduct. (this was a general "you" not anyone in particular)

 

So if you demonstrate that you cannot follow your own moral code in your actions then also expect to be dismissed when you try to tell others what is right and wrong because the bottom line is people don't respect those who don't practice what they preach.

 

It's so basic yet so often overlooked around here.

 

Where did I say that I have never been rude? I asked if there was a specific time that I had gone overboard so that I could apologize. I have always (and I'm sure my posts will prove this) said that when I first came here I was angry, confused and looking for answers. I'm sure I must have had some rude comments then, but as my anger is gone and I'm secure in my life, I'm more aware of how I state my opinions. I'm clear on where I stand, but am more able to express myself with the knowledge that it's only my opinion and some may not agree. There are times that I have to hold myself back from saying what I'm thinking. But because I'm removed from the emotion, it's much easier.

 

I think what happens is that some people see affairs as wrong and really can't understand how someone doesn't agree. I know that's how I was when I came to LS. I still don't get it, but I have accepted it and I know that there is nothing I can do to change how people feel. No matter, I still enjoy the occasional visit. Especially when I find the subject interesting like this one.

[herenow]

Tomcat, if your point is that none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes and we all do things at some point that go outside our personal moral limits, I agree 100%. For the most part I think people do feel something negative when their actions have hurt another human. Call it guilt, shame or disappointment that you were unable to live up to your own standards. Either way, you are right everyone has their moments. It's stunning to me when someone has no emotion when others are hurt by actions that one chooses.

 

If we deal only with the most prevalent topic on this forum (affairs) you have to agree that it's a very volatile subject. Just the fact that they are kept secret begs the question, how can they be morally acceptable? I will say again that when I first came here it was so hard or me to understand how some people would not admit that having an affair was destructive behavior.

 

We hear all kinds of justification and now it has come down to the idea that we all just have different views of what is and what isn't moral. For a person that feels the fresh pain of an affair either as the betrayed, the OP, or the MP, can't you see how hard it is to not get a bit pissy?

 

When I see the rude comments you speak about, I remember my past pain and my heart bleeds for them knowing how frustrating it is to look for answers that aren't there. I know that many OW experience pain as well, and I would never say that anyone deserves to feel that kind of pain including OW. What I still don't understand, and probably never will, is why a woman would get involved with a MM in the first place. It's clear that someone will get hurt and I think that's where you get the questions about intent to hurt others.

 

You and I will always disagree, but again, that's life. I've accepted it, I hope you can as well.

[NoIDidn't]

Regarding a *universal* moral code:

 

There isn't a culture around that condones stealing. Whether one is hungry or not, its the principle of the thing.

 

There are lots of so called religious people out there indulging in As and trying to say that God must condone it because He didn't stop it. Its laughable to say the least. And then to bring David into the argument. Again, quite funny.

 

David didn't say to Samuel that God must have allowed me to kill Uriah because he didn't stop it. He said that the man that took all that another man had should be killed. David was told by the prophet that the sword (death and destruction) would never depart from his bloodline because of his actions against Uriah. But somehow, people get hung up on his being forgiven and not the true consequences of his actions. David felt horrible for what he had done and accepted his consequences.

 

God *let* me do it, is as bad as the Devil *made* me do it.

 

Please don't claim God's inaction as proof of his acceptance. He didn't act on the behalf of many in the Bible, but He voiced His displeasure with their actions quite loudly with the consequences they unleashed.

[bentnotbroken]

Regarding a *universal* moral code:

 

There isn't a culture around that condones stealing. Whether one is hungry or not, its the principle of the thing.

 

There are lots of so called religious people out there indulging in As and trying to say that God must condone it because He didn't stop it. Its laughable to say the least. And then to bring David into the argument. Again, quite funny.

 

David didn't say to Samuel that God must have allowed me to kill Uriah because he didn't stop it. He said that the man that took all that another man had should be killed. David was told by the prophet that the sword (death and destruction) would never depart from his bloodline because of his actions against Uriah. But somehow, people get hung up on his being forgiven and not the true consequences of his actions. David felt horrible for what he had done and accepted his consequences.

 

God *let* me do it, is as bad as the Devil *made* me do it.

 

Please don't claim God's inaction as proof of his acceptance. He didn't act on the behalf of many in the Bible, but He voiced His displeasure with their actions quite loudly with the consequences they unleashed.

 

 

Applause, Applause.

[White Flower]

I think GEL TOTALLY fixed the problem as she saw fit and she did the adult thing to do. The idea that some people don't believe in changing core belief systems, is fine but you have to accept it is not for everyone.

Also, GEL did say that she let him go back and try to work it out with his W. It didn't work out and he returned to GEL. There's not much to feel guilty for anymore. He made his decision and moved on. No use in wallowing in an emotion that already served its purpose.

[White Flower]

Sorry to spoil your analogy Owl but in my case the MM's W really did agree to a "non-sacred M". Having been a CW herself (MM was her OM) she also "didn't believe in M" and only agreed to it for financial reasons when the laws changed in their country. She was very resistant to the idea of M as she felt it would tie her down, and insisted that the paper was just for the financial benefit. MM's sister, who witnessed when they got married, told me MM "was just taking W at her word".

What's a CW?

[Storyrider]

A universal truth doesn't mean that everyone agrees with it or believes it. It means that it is a truth about the world that exists apart from what anyone believes. Like gravity. It is there whether you believe in it or not.

 

Or like the earth going around the sun. The earth really does go around the sun, whether a certain culture believes that to be the case or not.

 

With morals, universal truth means the same thing. For example, the idea that slavery is wrong might be considered a universal truth. So, even though the American South practiced slavery and saw it as OK, one could argue that it is still intrinsically wrong.

 

The opposite, POV, moral relativism, would argue that slavery is right or wrong depending on the culture or even perhaps the individual situation, and that people in other cultures have no right to judge.

[White Flower]

My personal belief is that there "should" be a moral code that humans live by. That code should include honesty and respect for others and how our actions effect others.

 

If there is anything I have learned from LS is that there are many people who disagree with my opinion.

Yes, and that's OK. If we all agreed with each other life would be soooo boring;)

 

And perhaps that is why we have free will? We each have our own set of reasons for cheating, for staying with or leaving a cheater, etc.

 

Perhaps it is my moral code to stop being too good of a person? Being so good wasn't really satisfying to myself. Yes, that sounds selfish, I know. Most of my friends tell me it's about time I did something for myself. Some people are selfish their entire lives and take their last rights right before they die and poof-they are forgiven. And others are good people our entire lives and decide to try something edgy before we die. That's what makes the world go round.

 

My actions might hurt someone else like hell and I would rather they wouldn't hurt. But maybe they are supposed to learn that lesson? Of course, I wouldn't design it that way and that's why we're careful to keep it a secret, but I know it could be discovered quite easily and many people would have learned something of value, including myself.

 

The part I bolded is expected in the open public, but I don't think it would ever happen in the private world. People couldn't live without secrecy. Just look at the morals police in Iran. They carry rifles in the street to ensure women are covered, yet they dance like belly dancers in the privacy of their own homes.

[White Flower]

I have to run but will respond to your posts at a later time, in the meantime I just wanted to say I wish we WERE promised a bowel of cherries it would be so much more pleasant than our current intestinal situation! :laugh:

 

Have a good night everyone.

Do cherries go with chocolate and peanut butter:confused:

[Tomcat33]

Where did I say that I have never been rude? I asked if there was a specific time that I had gone overboard so that I could apologize.

 

It doesn't really matter and it's not worth getting into an I said you said, because yes the point was:

 

 

Tomcat, if your point is that none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes and we all do things at some point that go outside our personal moral limits, I agree 100%

 

 

Glad you can see what I actually meant. That is just on the topic of preaching and demanding others to not negate their moral code and practicing what we preach...

 

ok that's one aspect then there is the whole A aspect of things:

 

I think what happens is that some people see affairs as wrong and really can't understand how someone doesn't agree. I know that's how I was when I came to LS. I still don't get it, but I have accepted it and I know that there is nothing I can do to change how people feel. No matter, I still enjoy the occasional visit. Especially when I find the subject interesting like this one.

 

You know I can't speak for everyone, BUT if I were to guess about what people feel inside even though they may not admit it here publicly is that most people DO see affairs as wrong. This is what I think gets lost in translation many times because it is the same example I gave earlier of "if you don't practice what you preach then I am not going to respect you"

 

So what happens is you see people end up here knee deep in the throes of an A and all everyone want to hear is for them to admit they are wrong, and once they do so then we can hound them on why they are wrong in doing what they are doing and then that is when all the "well think of... and what about how X would feel..." all the guilt tripping starts. And I understand that, I understand that when a person is so deep in a situation sometimes they need to be reminded of all the pain they are causing around them because at times people get so consummed they don't even realise the true effects of what they are doing, but most people DO know this most people are aware that what they are doing is just bad all around, but they also know that they are being lead by an emotion so deep so powerful and so pleasureable it makes it IMPOSSIBLE to weigh out the negative, no matter how many times outsiders want to hit it home.

 

It's like being addicted to cocaine, your life is going on a downward spiral and you are hurting your loved ones and you don't take cocaine to devestate your parents or husband or w or children, you do it because it feel so good you can't stop. You do it because at some point you thought you had it undercontrol and it prob was under control, you do it because you don't see just how deep it has consumed you in a bad way. You do it because you are so consumed by how it makes you feel good that you fail to see all the debris you are leaving all around you.

 

See, "words" on pain, don't touch people actual pain DOES. All you can really do is wait for people to wake up to their own pain. This is why religion seems so over the top for me, in life you have to make your own mistakes and sometimes you have to learn lessons the hard way. Personally I can't just live by a book that tells me do this and do that and you will be happy. NO ONE can live like that. You have to experience things on your own sometimes. And when it comes to affairs a lot of the times for those of us who never dreamt of ending up in such a situation at the time it felt like our situation was completely unique.

 

 

The other really big thing to note about religion is that a LOT of people turn to it HARDCORE as a means of salvation because they were leading a live filled with mistakes so they turn to religion as a bigger force they cannot find withing in order to do the "right" thing. I don't want to live like that doesn't mean others can't.

 

 

And it's not "excuses" HN, it really bothers me that people want to hear what lead to the A and then no matter what we say when explaining what lead us to what we did we will ALWAYS be brushed off with "you're only justify everything with all these excuses but you still did X and you are still evil" There is always a reason behind every reaction. Would a BS like it if people told them "you gave your husband another try after he cheated? You are willing to forgive? then you explain why and the response is "baahhhh those are all excuses you gave him another chance because you are weak, so you can justify it til the cows come home but you are just weak and lower form of human being" And I am sure you DO hear that a lot. Human beings are not 2 dimensonal like that. We have many motives and reasons that drive us to make the decisions that we make, it is very frustrating as and OP to be brushed off as selfish and pretty much told in not so many words "shut up don't justify things, but first admit you are evil and selfish then please shut up". If OPs are selfsh moraless evil doers and BSs are weak what more do we even have to learn from each other? Case closed and class dismissed! right?

 

This is how naive I was when I first came here I started reading so many stories that were so similar to mine in that to them it also felt like they could beat the odds it felt different and unique and in fact we were all talking about the exact same thing. I was horrified and even still I wanted to keep hope my situation was different.

 

In many respects it was this man moved mountains to be with me and to show me we were meant to be, we were never a "hidden affair" and we lived out our relationship like a normal coulple, he lived on his own and was fully seperated but was married and still had a truckload of unfinished business to deal with and it was totally naive of me to think I could just step in to this and carry on as if nothing. OK but I had to learn that, I always knew it would be this way (without experience) then I was faced with a situation that felt real to me it felt like but what if it is possible? It was progressing in a way that seemed like this man was honest to me in what he wanted and what he no longer wanted at home. The first thing I said to him was "I will never be the OW so whatever is happening between us now on an emotiona level has got to stop because it won't go beyond this if you want to be with me, leave your marriage and then look me up" And so eventually and after cutting contact for a few months he did. If he was so willign to do that how could I NOT think this man was ready to move forward? I am supposed to be responsible for his actions towards his marriage? I never forced him to move out I never forced him to be with me I simply said to him In regards to ME and what you can have with ME you can't have me on the side so that's where I stand on this. So why should I feel remorse for that the feelings were there and there is nothing we did to bring them on they developed at that point we had not crossed any lines it happend.

 

If I had a H that wanted to move out and I later found it it was to be with another person I would seriously look at what was going on in my marriage to have my parter leave so easily to pursue a relationship with another woman he'd only met 5months prior and whom nothing had happened with physically at all. If your H left your home to be with another person how could you not want to reevaluate what you two had together? So I don't feel any guilt about that AT ALL he is a grown man who knows his situation and they had their own issues, if he was willing to move out to get seperated to see what could happen with us I am not going to be held responsible for that, he knew he was married he knew that if all he wanted was a fling it was not going to happen with me so he could have turned away and he could have pulled the plug on the whole thing but no, he mobilized himself to prove to me he was serious about what he said he felt for me because we did fall in love.

 

Still does not take away from what I was feeling towards her during this whole ordeal which was guilt and sorrow for what she was going through, and for the fact he no longer loved her THAT was my guilt I felt guilty for the fact that he did love me and he did not love her. But then I realised that it was taking on too much on to myself that even if I was not in the picture that would not change the fact he no longer felt what he should for her. and that's not a justification that's a fact. They are divorcing now so this was the case.

 

I am not justifying what I did, justifying it would imply that I am looking for acceptance or pitty what I am doing is explaining my train of thought in the situation so that when if someone wants to understand what goes on inside a person's head when they are in this situation so that they CAN understand it from the OPs point of view. Again I am NOT looking for pitty or acceptance.

 

 

When I see the rude comments you speak about, I remember my past pain and my heart bleeds for them knowing how frustrating it is to look for answers that aren't there. I know that many OW experience pain as well, and I would never say that anyone deserves to feel that kind of pain including OW. What I still don't understand, and probably never will, is why a woman would get involved with a MM in the first place. It's clear that someone will get hurt and I think that's where you get the questions about intent to hurt others.

 

I agree, but your pain is still different much more devestating because you were blindsided, our pain is self inflicted but and we know it could be coming though we don't realise just how painful it is until it happens and honestly for me it was incomperable. If it is any consolation AT ALL just on the level of pain itself, losing the person after the A ends is just as painful if not more than finding out the person you trusted and loved did this to you. I have been on both ends so I know.

 

 

 

You and I will always disagree, but again, that's life. I've accepted it, I hope you can as well.

 

 

I don't know that's true in fact we have agreed on things in the past, I think when you say that you pretty much set yourself up to never agree with that person, I know because I've said that about other people, I don't feel that with you.

 

. He made his decision and moved on. No use in wallowing in an emotion that already served its purpose.

 

I can totally relate to that last part.

 

Do cherries go with chocolate and peanut butter:confused:

 

 

oh yeah baby!!! But I'll pass on the bowel cherry though

 

 

And I also agree HN I wrote this earlier but I guess I erased it somehow this is one of the most interesting topics that have been raised here in a long while, really enjoying this conversation as well.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Tomcat33

[OpenBook]

Personally I can't just live by a book that tells me do this and do that and you will be happy. NO ONE can live like that.

 

Ah, that's the kicker. Nowhere (that I know of) does it promise a happy life if you "go by the Good Book." In fact, it pretty much guarantees that - at least in this lifetime - there's going to be pain and suffering if you do.

 

We have many motives and reasons that drive us to make the decisions that we make, it is very frustrating as and OP to be brushed off as selfish and pretty much told in not so many words "shut up don't justify things, but first admit you are evil and selfish then please shut up". If OPs are selfsh moraless evil doers and BSs are weak what more do we even have to learn from each other? Case closed and class dismissed! right?

 

I completely agree with this. I'm not sure if that's their intent (or if they even care)... but it is certainly the way a lot of BS's come across here in the OM/OW forum. It seems that all they really want is for us to confess our sins to them, and seek their forgiveness. From complete strangers on an anonymous public forum. Frankly this attitude mystifies me.

 

What I still don't understand, and probably never will, is why a woman would get involved with a MM in the first place. It's clear that someone will get hurt and I think that's where you get the questions about intent to hurt others.

 

And what I don't understand, and probably never will, is why the BS always seems to have such a razor focus on the OW (a stranger to her), when it was the MM (her own H, who vowed the rest of his life to her) who was deliberately stepping out on the M, entirely on his own steam?!?

[SerenityX2]

Hey TC

 

Very interesting post...I get that people have to "live it to learn" so to speak....I think you're a good source of guidance for ppl here.

 

God, I hope I don't come across that b/c my mistakes I "found" salvation...sorta like the "I've been saaaaved" *done in the southern evangelical voice* that's not it either...I always had my faith...but I'd manage to shove it to the back burner to go after what I wanted...but I realized the more I did that the more I was trudging in even deeper mud and in general feeling like why does life have to teach so many damn lessons and could I just get a break sometime?

 

Openbook is absolutely right in that following his path pretty much guarantees more trials, tribulations and suffering. Please don't mistake when I say I'm happy...I'm zinging of the walls ..or that picture a line graph that always stays in "high" position or even is on a constant climb (I hope that made sense!)..it's not....there's def peaks and valleys....We're going through a heck of a financial mess right now that is really testing our faith...but that's the thing...you come through this "impossible" thing and you do it w/his grace and come in more strong with a bigger "ah ha" moment...it keeps happening and that's why it's cool and that's why I say I'm "happy"....I have experiences w/ppl and you know and see how God touched their lives...you see the love and you get a "warm fuzzy" ...that creates the happy for me...when someone says "thanks" to me or smiles b/c I was able to help them feel someone cared (I'm a nursing student)...that creates the happy. I'm happy knowing "this" isn't it....it's the stopover to get "home". As far as marriages go though...there's a vast diff between my exH and even guys I dated...those sound like a lot of the guys on here that the women could do so much better....I don't talk about my M to brag, please don't think that...I say it to say it's out there.

 

I can honestly say I'm so grateful that I was able to spend the time on my own for a while to be ready for this M and how we grow together...we have troubles yes, but we face them together...and the love we share...that is why I'm blessed aside from the def hard times...esp what we're going through right now...in the scheme of things we do feel very blessed to have each other and are happy...we also have the realization that things can always be worse.

 

Another thing is at least I am not looking for anyone here to confess to me or anything...I'm just here to try to shed light on a diff perspective...give some other insight...maybe give someone something to think about...I can see that to an outsider it looks like many just have their heads buried in the sand...but I see now the pain and confusion that can be there and that they're suffering..so thank you for that insight...I guess I think though it doesn't have to be that way...at least suffering/hard times for that! but you are absolutely right...they have to learn that on their own.

 

I do find it fascinating this thread as lasted so long. If you have any q's (you did say you'd respond later) I won't be around for a couple weeks ...I have 6 tests in 2 weeks until I end my 2nd semester then I'm off for a week...so I can check back then if you have q's...if you don't...either way it's cool...I just didn't want you to think I'm blowing you off if you do ask me something.

 

I'll leave you with another thing to ponder to give you more of a tangible of a warm fuzzy for me. On our way to vacation 2004 hurricane Charlie came through and pretty much devestated a portion of Florida (we were heading to NC) ...the radio newcasters were saying that they couldn't believe how the people were bonding and helping one another...they thought they should be mad for the things they lost...and I had my "ah ha"...Generally when devestation happens "people" come out and show their human compassioin and help...but it generally takes a tragedy for that to come forth...I think that's a message though...we are here to help one another. To further elaborate on the story we kept driving and the hurricane skirted NC...I drove through the eye...a big dark cloud...but felt protected (don't ask me why lol) ..and when we got out of the cloud the sky went through these various shades of blue that only God could do...I mean we went through some seriousl torrential rain, the car almost blew off the highway at one point (before the eye) but I couldn't pull off anywhere I could only drive and pray...then the eye an eerie calmness, then blue, sun and breezy...we ended up having a beautiful vacation...many of the condos however were underwater...not ours...you see it was sort of a mini miracle...(we went to connect as a family after my dad died and for my son to see this magical place that I grew up going to)....that's just a small sample and one of the calmer "trials of faith" if you will...of course I've had many more hardships...but haven't we all? I just choose to do them with his help/guidance instead of trying to stand alone which usually doesn't work anyway (from what I've seen)

 

I see this is a valuable site for those in need...I just don't think more and more I can one of those ppl to stick around and try to provide insight...I don't think I come across well on a msg board...good thing I don't have that problem IRL!

 

Take care all