GreenEyedLady Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Also, GEL did say that she let him go back and try to work it out with his W. It didn't work out and he returned to GEL. There's not much to feel guilty for anymore. He made his decision and moved on. No use in wallowing in an emotion that already served its purpose. You're so eloquent! That's exactly how I feel about it... Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 You're so eloquent! That's exactly how I feel about it... Thanks for the compliment. I totally understand that he tried and it didn't work. You set the proverbial butterfly free and he flew back to you. My own pastor years ago tried to go back to his wife after he converted and it didn't work. He ended up marrying the woman he was in love with. It's not exactly the same sitch, but the point is, people can only do so much and when it's discovered that it's over you move on to bigger and better things. Link to post Share on other sites
twice_shy Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Name a single moral that is universal - that every single culture agrees is right (or wrong, your choice). decency, or maybe do unto others as you'd have done to you. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Yes, yes, I know that. I did say that I wasn't condoning having an affair, nor was I defending Owomans actions- just her right to choose her actions. I just thought it was an odd question when the answer was so apparent. If someone about to embark on an affair DID take others moral codes into consideration more thoroughly, surely they would refrain from doing so? I have been an OW, however, my personal moral code did a complete U-turn since the A ended. (I have zero tolerance for infidelity- some may say its hypocritical, I call it learning the hard way via a bad experience). I'm ashamed to admit, I had total an utter disregard for anyone elses moral code, and in fact I got a perverse thrill out of the illicitness of it. Even writing that makes me feel dreadful. However, my moral code was rewritten during the course of that, and despite being totally non-religious, I would never condone an affair again. Exactly why that is I am unsure, it could be because I was witness to and a victim of an immense amount of pain and destruction that could have been avoided if two selfish people hadn't indulged their "desires". I think infidelity is avoidable in the majority of cases. I am the same way, sb129. I was raised in a very religious and strict household and used to be super religious -- always in youth group and church missions trips etc. In college when I was on my own I realized I didn't believe in my parent's religion and hated how intolerant and hypocritical people from my church seemed to be. I didn't want to be intolerant and started to have a laizzes faire outlook on life -- like, "whatever makes me happy." But all along, I wasn't really happy! Almost a decade later, I had an affair with xMM. The biggest reason I ended it was that I felt guilty and realized that my choices and actions revealed that I had a bad character and little sense of morality. I still feel guilty and sleazy for what I did. I did not suddenly start believing in God or my parent's religion, but I took a long, hard look at what was wrong with myself that I would cheat on my fiance and help a married man cheat on his wife of 15 years. Being "religious" or not wasn't what made me happy or unhappy -- it was really getting to know myself and what my needs are and how to meet them without hurting the rest of humankind that truly made me happy. I feel remorse and regret but most importantly I've learned a lot from my formerly bad decisions and I now believe that I am someone I admire, instead of someone I'm running from and someone I don't really know -- like in the past. Since ending my affair it's been my personal goal not to lie or live a deceptive life. I realized that there is a difference between being "intolerant" and living a life of integrity. (I don't think the other women on here, should they eventually marry a man of their own, would be very "tolerant" of their husband cheating on them with another woman, although some of them have screamed "intolerant!" at me when I point out that an affair requires living without integrity). I've realized that as someone engaging in infidelity, I had absolutely no integrity, I was not actively thinking about what was right or wrong and in fact I was only thinking about myself and my own interests over everyone else's. I was incredibly selfish, and unhappy. I did a lot of soul-searching and reading and went to counseling, and I realized that the reason I cheated was that something inside me was broken. Although I regret what I did, the only good thing that came out of it was that I found out what was wrong with me (low self-esteem, a desire to be sneaky and get away with things -- since adolescence, selfishness, etc.) and fixed it, and I, too, can say with 100% certainty that I will never have another affair and that I do not condone it. I would rather be called intolerant or blah blah blah than condone something so selfish and self-destructive. I guess if someone is truly happy being deceptive and selfish, then by all means, continue. I realize that not everyone thinks affairs are wrong. But for me, examining my actions and values and deciding to change some of them has been the only thing that's made me truly happy. And I agree with everything you said -- from at one time being selfish to now caring about how my actions affect others and being a lot better off because of it -- and it's nice to read your words. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 decency, or maybe do unto others as you'd have done to you. True -- that is a maxim of every major religion, and how could someone NOT agree with "I wouldn't want someone to do something to me that they wouldn't want done to them"? i.e. -- don't harm others, treat others well like you hope to be treated yourself. Yet it seems like a lot of people who supposedly believe this ACT like "I can do this to someone else even though I wouldn't want it to be done to me... because I'd rather serve my own interests." Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hmmmmmmm:confused: Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yes, and that's OK. If we all agreed with each other life would be soooo boring;) And perhaps that is why we have free will? We each have our own set of reasons for cheating, for staying with or leaving a cheater, etc. Perhaps it is my moral code to stop being too good of a person? Being so good wasn't really satisfying to myself. Yes, that sounds selfish, I know. Most of my friends tell me it's about time I did something for myself. Some people are selfish their entire lives and take their last rights right before they die and poof-they are forgiven. And others are good people our entire lives and decide to try something edgy before we die. That's what makes the world go round. My actions might hurt someone else like hell and I would rather they wouldn't hurt. But maybe they are supposed to learn that lesson? Of course, I wouldn't design it that way and that's why we're careful to keep it a secret, but I know it could be discovered quite easily and many people would have learned something of value, including myself. The part I bolded is expected in the open public, but I don't think it would ever happen in the private world. People couldn't live without secrecy. Just look at the morals police in Iran. They carry rifles in the street to ensure women are covered, yet they dance like belly dancers in the privacy of their own homes. Wow, I am surprised at all of this strange reasoning, I just don't understand it. It sounds like you're justifying your knowing choice to hurt someone else by your actions by saying, "well, hopefully they're learn something in the end." I mean, that could be said about anything -- I'm going to kidnap their baby because having it makes me happy, I'm going to kill him because he makes me unhappy -- and eventually the family/ victim WILL learn something of value from it, but it doesn't justify the actions of the person who DOES it. But I suspect you already know this, as I know you are intelligent. Your reasoning is just not making sense to me at the moment. It also sounds like you're saying "I know this is wrong, but I'm justifying it because it's about time I did something wrong... and people in Iran carry rifles in the street." (????) Again, people can point to extreme examples to make themselves feel better about their own "not as bad" actions, but, that is not really self-reflection, that is justification. It also sounds like you're saying you want to spend your last years doing something you know is wrong. That sounds sad to me, especially when you say all your life you have lived in a way that you know is right. I'm not saying you don't deserve to do something for yourself, but why does that have to involve hurting someone else? Why not take yourself on a vacation or, if a more drastic lifestyle change is in order, leave your husband and be with someone who isn't married, or happy on your own? You've said in the past that your MM uses you and can't give you what you need (or inferred that -- I don't have the exact quotes and I don't mean to put words in your mouth) -- so how is being with him doing something good for yourself anyway? I'm only asking because I've been there myself -- looking to everyone but MYSELF for happiness, thinking that other people/ situations were what I needed to be happy, but realizing that happiness can NEVER be attained from being with someone -- especially a married man who isn't giving you the kind of relationship you deserve any more than your husband is -- but instead it comes from within. I realize you are not me, and I am not trying to attack you, and I know you will look at this as preaching at you but really you are someone I have come to care about and I have never heard you talk like this so I am just confused. I don't get it, this doesn't sound like the same person who just a month or so ago said she realized her affair was not right for her and was ready to get out of it. But I'm bowing out, I realize that you probably don't want my advice, and although your post disheartens me, all I can say is best wishes WF. Link to post Share on other sites
twice_shy Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 True -- that is a maxim of every major religion, and how could someone NOT agree with "I wouldn't want someone to do something to me that they wouldn't want done to them"? i.e. -- don't harm others, treat others well like you hope to be treated yourself. Yet it seems like a lot of people who supposedly believe this ACT like "I can do this to someone else even though I wouldn't want it to be done to me... because I'd rather serve my own interests." I like the way you think!!! Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedMM Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Is there a religion that condones or advocates an A? (besides weird cults like Anton Levay's Church of Satan- could be called the Church of Self-indulgence) There are religions(even Christians) that encourage polygamy, but how 'bout an affair? Just curious... Link to post Share on other sites
kaycee2007 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i never set out to hurt any1, he chased me and i suppose i couldnt say no! Link to post Share on other sites
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