How do you handle your religious beliefs in an affair?

[Owl]

Here's where I struggle.

 

"Morality is relative."

 

I don't agree with that, but lets proceed on that premise anyway.

 

I don't know for sure anyone's actual faith or religious belief here on this site, nor do I claim to be well versed in any but my own. I have friends that are of different faiths and beliefs than my own, but I do try to respect theirs, and offer no reasons for conflict between us based on that.

 

I know that many here have "different moral codes"...and many of the OP here feel that in "their moral code", marriage is not sacred. That THEY don't believe in the concept of monogamy or marriage.

 

That's their choice. While I don't agree, that in and of itself isn't something I would have any issue with.

 

Where I have trouble understanding the rationale behind things is this.

 

If you had a friend who's family was muslim...would you offer them a pork chop dinner? I'm guessing not, myself. You would know that this was against their beliefs and moral code. Lets go this far...If you knew a man who's family was muslim, say you knew that HIS faith was "shaky", would you ask him to sneak pork into his wife's dinner? Why or why not? She wouldn't know it was there, would she? Assuming that you're NOT muslim, its not against YOUR moral code to eat it, right?

 

That's where I struggle with some of the justifications based off "moral code"...even when the OP and the MM agree...it still impacts the WS and the rest of the family, and their moral code as well. The wife didn't agree to a "non-sacred marriage".

 

I know that the standard response is that "she's not MY problem"...but I don't get that...YOUR decision to be with her H impacted her life. It doesn't look any different to me than intentionally violating any of her other beliefs or things she holds sacred.

[precious1357]

Are you blaming God for your actions?

 

On one level I understand your guilt. However, we know the faithful by thier actions... because faith without works is dead.

 

So if you bear no fruit... where is your faith?

 

My faith in the Lord is part of the guilt. I know God loves me and He has kept me so I just know I let God down, again! And yes, I know that God gives us "free will"...I'm not holding God accountable for my own actions...I'm a child of God and I want to do and be a better person because of MY FAITH IN GOD.

[precious1357]

I'd say if you are involved in an affair, then you can't be all that religious.

 

I guess DAVID (Bible) was not religious, he just loved the Lord....read the Bible and learn just how many people loved the Lord and unfortunately fell short...good grief!

[precious1357]

The thing is, I do not feel the need to justify my actions...I am an imperfect person and I accept that...I have issues with people who are pious and sit in judgment of others simply for the sake of judging to make themselves feel they are better than someone else...

 

I have no defense...I love a man with all my heart and he loves me the same; He happens to be married and is going through a divorce...if that is worthy of damnation for all eternity, then so be it...But that is between me and God and no one else...

 

Peace out...

 

I HEAR YOU!!!!

[Owl]

I guess DAVID (Bible) was not religious, he just loved the Lord....read the Bible and learn just how many people loved the Lord and unfortunately fell short...good grief!

 

You're absolutely right! And look at how angry God was with David until he turned away from that sin and ended his adultery. It was only when David STOPPED that sin that God forgave him for it and began blessing him again. God can't forgive a sin that you continue to commit.

 

Not judging here...simply pointing out that you have to take anything in the Bible in full context...you can't pull part of the story out, because then its too easy to find ways to tailor it meet your needs, instead of getting the full message that God intended in it.

[Tomcat33]

My faith and his word says that I am to say what he has done for me and to say that I believe and follow his word. It also says that I am not to argue with someone if thay don't believe in him or his word. I think the scripture referred to me leaving the person( in their time that village or town) and shaking the dust off my feet, so as not to contaminate my belief. So whatever you need to get you through your day is fine with me. And thank you for correcting my misprint.

 

Oh I see so when you are hit with a challenging question the answer is "I am not to argue, I am just to follow the word of god" As a child I was never told "BECAUSE I SAY SO" things were explained to me and through reasoning and common sense I understood why things were being asked of me as they were, so as an adult I don't adhere to this mentality that says, just DO IT but don't question it, nor would I want to parent MY children with that kind of attitude.

 

Hmmm my faith says that if my neighbour needs my blood to survive, he can drop dead unfortunately because my faith tells me we should not give blood to save another human being's life. You must think I am a monster for letting another human being waste away when all I need to do is let them take a pint or two of my blood, but that is what the moral code I chose to live by says and that is what I am going to adhere to no matter what. I would tell everyone outside of that school of thought they are selfish in saving another human being's life because who are they to play god and argue against the will of god?Most of you you would think I was insane if I said that wouldn't you?

 

As you can see everyone has their "own" faith and their own "beliefs" as long as you feel you are meeting the quota of the "one" you look up to, who are we mere mortals to judge each other's beliefs?

 

 

(I am not a Jehova's Witness and I would donate blood in a second if I knew I could save a life. I was proving a point with my example)

 

So how does this relate back to the original topic? Well some people find peace with what they do/have done and take from it what they will, every time I read someone wishing another human being "Karma, Karma will get you, you will pay, you will see Karma it is going to come back and do horrible things to you, you'll see you'll see" Karma is our conscience, there is no mystery force in life that brings "bad luck" our way. Just like God can't stop theft, and killing and hunger it can't bring "bad luck" either.

 

Doing something that makes us feel bad inside is the worst form of Karma you can experience that's what Karma is, it's guilt. So you make peace with it, you make peace with your religious beliefs and you make peace with what you feel, and you honour your come to terms with your choices and what they ential you are doing it for the simple reason that we are ALL selfish and we avoid doing wrong because ultimately it makes US feel bad.

 

anyone who wishes to challenge me that we do things right only for the sake of others, is not being true to themselves. We do things according to how it makes US feel, the excuse that we do right for others is not true because if that were the case if something made another feel good but it made us feel terrible we would not do it, period.

 

 

 

I believe that though we are imperfect... and that we should accept that... we should also not settle for it. I regret my failings and strive to be better. Does that make me self rightous?

 

I really like the way you expressed that Cobra!

 

I think there are all sorts of self rightous comments that happen here and the ideas would be a lot easier digested if they came from a place of true caring and the need to help but what we end up seeing a lot of is that this "help" is expressed from a place of anger, resentment, and undealt emotions that linger in these people's heart's from past experiences. The idea that they need to introduce the voice of god to accomodate their outbursts, because they ARE outbursts, is REALLY LAME to me. What a cop out, "here me go off on a tangent because GOD expects me to spread his word".

 

I have a few posters in mind that appear here every so often that truly come and spread peaceful words and I personally could listen to them speak for hours. They could almost convince me of their hardcore religious ideas and I am not an easy "catch". They seem to really embrace the act of giving in the name of god. Their delivery is just one of caring. I can think of one poster but can't remember her name, she disagrees with some of the choices discussed but the way in which she exchanges her views is worthy of paying attention to. That's helping to me, not what some other people think they are doing by calling their overcritical angry outbursts of "yeah but if you don't then this is going to happen to you" "help"

 

Thats not help that's venting. And if you want vent that's fine we all do it but don't hide under God's cloak when told that what you are doing is actually venting.

Let's call it like what it is, shall we?

[Tomcat33]

If you had a friend who's family was muslim...would you offer them a pork chop dinner? I'm guessing not, myself. You would know that this was against their beliefs and moral code. Lets go this far...If you knew a man who's family was muslim, say you knew that HIS faith was "shaky", would you ask him to sneak pork into his wife's dinner? Why or why not? She wouldn't know it was there, would she? Assuming that you're NOT muslim, its not against YOUR moral code to eat it, right?

 

I could invite my one Jewish friend over to a barbQ and serve nonKosher meat and Iwould also offer other foods that were Kosher. If my Jewish friend decides to eat my nonKosher meat why should I be held accountable for his breaking his law? In fact I could offer no other type of variety of food and he is still not required to eat what I serve. I am not Jewish and I eat regular meat/food if he wants to cross the line to eat what I am eating then that is his CHOICE to make and it is his due to pay he made the pact to eat Kosher, not me.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Tomcat33

[sb129]

Owl you have made some excellent points, and thank you for providing a bit more clarification to your earlier post.

 

Of course I wouldn't offer a Muslim a pork chop for dinner!

Even though I have some issues with Islam as a religion, I wouldn't blatantly disrespect it in such a way, if nothing else its just plain rude.

 

Sleeping with someone elses husband is the height of rudeness too, whatever way you look at it.

Its illegal, and heavily penalised in some countries, and as TBF said earlier, frowned upon in most others.

 

This may sound contradictory to my earlier post, but I do believe that respecting others moral codes should be part of ones own moral code.

 

When it comes to an affair, most people put their own first. I know this from personal experience, and it is emphasised in this thread.

 

The OPs continued justification of her affair, and her conviction that it won't damage her relationship with God is sad more than anything.

 

Just for the record, I am with Enema on the god thing- I don't believe that any form of God exists, so when I was an OW I didn't have to worry to much about his judgement.

It was the judgement from horrified friends and family, and ultimately judgement from myself that was the hardest thing to live with- and was much more real than any judgement from a god.

[bentnotbroken]

Here's where I struggle.

 

"Morality is relative."

 

I don't agree with that, but lets proceed on that premise anyway.

 

I don't know for sure anyone's actual faith or religious belief here on this site, nor do I claim to be well versed in any but my own. I have friends that are of different faiths and beliefs than my own, but I do try to respect theirs, and offer no reasons for conflict between us based on that.

 

I know that many here have "different moral codes"...and many of the OP here feel that in "their moral code", marriage is not sacred. That THEY don't believe in the concept of monogamy or marriage.

 

That's their choice. While I don't agree, that in and of itself isn't something I would have any issue with.

 

Where I have trouble understanding the rationale behind things is this.

 

If you had a friend who's family was muslim...would you offer them a pork chop dinner? I'm guessing not, myself. You would know that this was against their beliefs and moral code. Lets go this far...If you knew a man who's family was muslim, say you knew that HIS faith was "shaky", would you ask him to sneak pork into his wife's dinner? Why or why not? She wouldn't know it was there, would she? Assuming that you're NOT muslim, its not against YOUR moral code to eat it, right?

 

That's where I struggle with some of the justifications based off "moral code"...even when the OP and the MM agree...it still impacts the WS and the rest of the family, and their moral code as well. The wife didn't agree to a "non-sacred marriage".

 

I know that the standard response is that "she's not MY problem"...but I don't get that...YOUR decision to be with her H impacted her life. It doesn't look any different to me than intentionally violating any of her other beliefs or things she holds sacred.

 

I want to grow up to be just like you. Your insight and dead on responses are so what I want to say.

[bentnotbroken]

I guess DAVID (Bible) was not religious, he just loved the Lord....read the Bible and learn just how many people loved the Lord and unfortunately fell short...good grief!

 

 

Not only did he fall short, he acknowledged his sin and repented. The child he and Bathsheba had died and the long term ramifications was one son raped his daughter and another chased him from his thorn and his kingdom fell into ruin.

 

He accepted his consequences and remained a faithful servant of God. He never committed that sin again and he again found favor in God's eyes. He learned from that choice. His decision not only affected him, Bathsheba and Uriah( who he placed in a position to be killed so he could have his wife), it affected his future children and the people of his kingdom. God will forgive and forget the sin if asked in sincerity, but that doesn't mean that the consequences of our actions will go away.

[frannie]

Not only did he fall short, he acknowledged his sin and repented. The child he and Bathsheba had died and the long term ramifications was one son raped his daughter and another chased him from his thorn and his kingdom fell into ruin.

 

He accepted his consequences and remained a faithful servant of God. He never committed that sin again and he again found favor in God's eyes. He learned from that choice. His decision not only affected him, Bathsheba and Uriah( who he placed in a position to be killed so he could have his wife), it affected his future children and the people of his kingdom. God will forgive and forget the sin if asked in sincerity, but that doesn't mean that the consequences of our actions will go away.

 

Meanwhile, in Christminster, Jude (the 'obscure') and the woman he loved and who loved him lived life according to what she interpreted as God's will. Jude died lonely and unloved by his legal wife... while the woman he loved and who loved him lived out her life in painful duty married to her 'true' husband who she felt physical revulsion for.

 

Is that a happy ending, God's will, or a travesty?

[bentnotbroken]

Oh I see so when you are hit with a challenging question the answer is "I am not to argue, I am just to follow the word of god" As a child I was never told "BECAUSE I SAY SO" things were explained to me and through reasoning and common sense I understood why things were being asked of me as they were, so as an adult I don't adhere to this mentality that says, just DO IT but don't question it, nor would I want to parent MY children with that kind of attitude.

 

 

It wasn't a challenging question, it was just one that was going to generate this thread into more "mine vs. yours" and I already have enough "infractions" to let it go. Your opinion and others aren't necessary for me to feel strong about my beliefs, just as mine aren't necessary for you to feel strongly about yours. I have no reason to doubt you are sincere and earnest in what you believe. It doesn't mean that what you believe is right or that I am going to go" Oh, yeah I see it now and it makes sense" . It doesn't make sense to me and I have no intention of trying to understand it. Where God is concerned, my beliefs are firm and immovable. Have a blessed day.

[bentnotbroken]

Meanwhile, in Christminster, Jude (the 'obscure') and the woman he loved and who loved him lived life according to what she interpreted as God's will. Jude died lonely and unloved by his legal wife... while the woman he loved and who loved him lived out her life in painful duty married to her 'true' husband who she felt physical revulsion for.

 

Is that a happy ending, God's will, or a travesty?

 

I am not familiar with what you have just said, so before I comment I would have to read, study and question. I will look it up.

[bentnotbroken]

"case if something made another feel good but it made us feel terrible we would not do it"

 

 

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but that is exactly what I had to do with the ow in my situation. I didn't want to speak to her, much less forgive her. I made me feel like crap, but it is what God said I needed to do to be forgiven for the wrongs that I have done. I can't expect forgiveness from him if I can't forgive others. And for a short time it did make the ow feel good. I think that was because she expected her BS to stay with her. He didn't and her wrath continues.

[sb129]

It's why I have no difficulty in respecting you a lot. You own it and have learned so much from it. Not everyone is willing to do so.

 

Thanks TBF. Meant to thank you earlier.

 

Meanwhile, in Christminster, Jude (the 'obscure') and the woman he loved and who loved him lived life according to what she interpreted as God's will. Jude died lonely and unloved by his legal wife... while the woman he loved and who loved him lived out her life in painful duty married to her 'true' husband who she felt physical revulsion for.

 

Is that a happy ending, God's will, or a travesty?

 

This is one of the many reasons why I have such a problem with religion. Its much less common these days, but in the times of Jude the Obscure (and all through history), if you were in a loveless marriage you could not get out of it without being stigmatised.

Why? Because of religion. If you said your vows before god, then by hook or by crook you had to keep them or you would burn in hell.

 

Never mind if you were miserable until the day you died.

 

If you take religion OUT of the equation, then for the most part, people wouldn't have felt so pressured to BE married in the first place, and these loveless marriages of convenience would have been less common.

OR if the marriage became loveless over time, the two people involved could get a divorce without being social outcasts, and try again.

 

Now, getting a divorce is, for the most part, socially acceptable.

So if you are in a loveless marriage, and you love another person- why not do the third person in the triad a favour, and set them free to find someone that loves them.

 

Its only fair, isn't it?

[Owl]

I want to grow up to be just like you. Your insight and dead on responses are so what I want to say.

 

BNB, this is the most clear sign of a "need for counseling" that I've seen on this site yet! Please, if you feel that you want to be like me, run, do not walk, but RUN to the nearest mental health facility and request a complete and immediate mental health evaluation. Your judgement is clearly impaired beyond belief, and you will likely be institutionalized immediately! :D :D :D

[Tomcat33]

Meanwhile, in Christminster, Jude (the 'obscure') and the woman he loved and who loved him lived life according to what she interpreted as God's will. Jude died lonely and unloved by his legal wife... while the woman he loved and who loved him lived out her life in painful duty married to her 'true' husband who she felt physical revulsion for.

 

Is that a happy ending, God's will, or a travesty?

 

 

 

I call travesty!!!

 

Yet another example of what religion professes, a life ruled and lived in guilt. For what? so that we can have a better life in god's kingdom when we pass?

 

For all we know the Bible was written by a collective of talented ancient history comedians, equivalent to the team of Harvard grads that put together The Onion today. I mean we all know how much society loves a good peice of satirical work...

[Owl]

For all we know, you're actually a black and white cat that looks just like your avatar and types your responses 'hunt and peck' with its paws.

 

Sometimes you're compelled to accept that there are more things than you 'know'.

 

I don't understand quantam physics. I've been told that light acts as both a particle and a wave.

 

All I "know" is that I can see when the light bulb is turned on. Anything else, I have to take on faith.

[OWoman]

That's where I struggle with some of the justifications based off "moral code"...even when the OP and the MM agree...it still impacts the WS and the rest of the family, and their moral code as well. The wife didn't agree to a "non-sacred marriage".

 

Sorry to spoil your analogy Owl but in my case the MM's W really did agree to a "non-sacred M". Having been a CW herself (MM was her OM) she also "didn't believe in M" and only agreed to it for financial reasons when the laws changed in their country. She was very resistant to the idea of M as she felt it would tie her down, and insisted that the paper was just for the financial benefit. MM's sister, who witnessed when they got married, told me MM "was just taking W at her word".

[Tomcat33]

For all we know, you're actually a black and white cat that looks just like your avatar and types your responses 'hunt and peck' with its paws.

 

 

 

If you have ever heard or seen a black and white cat that types and has expression as a human being, then I am sure I could entertain that thought even for a second.

 

And just because I have been known to get "catty" at times here on LS, that does not a cat make me!! Though if I were a cat, a black and white one would totally be my first choice.

 

Then again I don't believe in UFO's or Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, either but who knows maybe they are out there.

 

C'mon OWL!!!

[frannie]

I am not familiar with what you have just said, so before I comment I would have to read, study and question. I will look it up.

 

Jude the Obscure, Thomas Hardy

[bentnotbroken]

BNB, this is the most clear sign of a "need for counseling" that I've seen on this site yet! Please, if you feel that you want to be like me, run, do not walk, but RUN to the nearest mental health facility and request a complete and immediate mental health evaluation. Your judgement is clearly impaired beyond belief, and you will likely be institutionalized immediately! :D :D :D

 

 

Been there, done that, got 2 T-shirts.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Owl]

I don't mean to scare anyone here...

 

But I completely agree with you, Owoman.

 

Given that your MM's marriage started in an affair as you've described, I absolutely do believe that you're right...the expectations were likely different than in 'most' marriages.

 

I'm not the least bit surprised that its made it to where its at now. I think that it was built on flawed principles to begin with. I also think that you're very smart for trying to start your relationship with him by learning from their previous mistakes.

 

While I know this sounds absolutely horrible, its simply how I feel...your MM "got what he worked for" in his current marriage. He got out of it what he put into it. Perhaps your relationship with him WILL be different. I don't know.

 

I DO think that my analogy holds true for the vast majority of other situations out there though.

[sb129]

Sorry to spoil your analogy Owl but in my case the MM's W really did agree to a "non-sacred M". Having been a CW herself (MM was her OM) she also "didn't believe in M" and only agreed to it for financial reasons when the laws changed in their country. She was very resistant to the idea of M as she felt it would tie her down, and insisted that the paper was just for the financial benefit. MM's sister, who witnessed when they got married, told me MM "was just taking W at her word".

 

So does the W know about you?

 

Is she cool with it?

 

If she is, then your justification is totally valid.

 

If not.... then there are a few holes in your argument.

[bentnotbroken]

I call travesty!!!

 

Yet another example of what religion professes, a life ruled and lived in guilt. For what? so that we can have a better life in god's kingdom when we pass?

 

For all we know the Bible was written by a collective of talented ancient history comedians, equivalent to the team of Harvard grads that put together The Onion today. I mean we all know how much society loves a good peice of satirical work...

 

 

For all I know the history books are full of fairytales and wishes. For all I know all the diseases that "they" say people die from are just experiments gone wrong. All I know, the this site and others are full of people who are so bored with the real world that they sit around and make up these lies to entertain themselves.

 

I don't live my life in guilt, because I do repent and ask forgiveness. And I have faith in God will afford me many opportunities to see his kingdom.