Contradictions in Scripture??!!??

[Storyrider]

Haven't had time to read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been given already. But there's this list online:

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

 

Oh, man. Moose has a lot of work to do.

 

Seriously, I would refute many of the contradictions on the above list as being too literal or misunderstanding something. For example, the point about purification rites after pregnancy has to do with the presence of blood. In orthodox Judaism, blood is sacred and requires cleansing afterward because of its lifegiving power, not because it is dirty.

[j_hunt_12]

[sIZE=-1]Some of the people I disagree with the most summed it up very well for me... I'll thank Islam for once in my life:

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hell_bible.htm

 

Please just pay attention to the first part I'm not supporting Islam here.

 

And I dont agree with everything here, but these are what I've been struggling with my whole life. Have at it! And I can't verify any of these verses as I don't have a Bible, but I remember about half of them very well

 

 

[/sIZE]

Edited January 10, 2008 by j_hunt_12

[j_hunt_12]

[COLOR=#008000]Ehh that site is so wrong... but it does put up some of the most controversial verses and most of these verses are contradictions to the general idea of Christianity from what I learned as a child.

 

Very bad, extremist site... look with a grain of salt though, if you want to though.

[/COLOR]

[Moose]

Oh, man. Moose has a lot of work to do.

Oh no I don't.

 

I'm not about to go through these sites and argue every point.

 

One at a time is feasable, and I'll ask one more time for people to give me the contradictions that they want addressed one at a time with the specific verse in question.

 

It isn't that hard to do, after all, a couple of you did provide links and these links usually have the verses in question.

 

Copy and Paste if you have to......

[JamesM]

I really wish I could give you examples, but I dont have the book with me right now. If you really read the Bible a lot like I did at many times throughout my life you'd know what I'm talking about better and already have an answer for it. These are addressed in the church very often, but very poorly.

 

Help me out with some idea of where they might be found, or give me a more exact example. I really am not trying to evade or avoid giving answers. I thought I had shown by giving links and explanations that I am addressing your issues/concerns. It is just that if I start shooting in the dark, then I may be wrong and I will spend time trying to read your mind.

 

How bout you answer the one I gave you: How many wives can you have? The very basic questions are the one's that Christians justify out so quickly, but it is contradiction.

 

One...I think. Is this a trick question? I am glad to see a verse that allows me more. NOT that I think I could handle more.

 

Did He? Prove it. It seems to me that man guided God.

 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Timothy 3:16 )

 

 

Mostly I found advice for sacrifice and how to plow a field. You know you aren't supposed to plow a field twice, you certainly find your way to hell. I really wish I could find some scriptures for you.

 

What church/denomination were you brought up in? Which one is the one your wife/girlfriend is in? Did you read the New Testament or Old? I do wish you could find some, too. I can say that if you google a portion, you may find what you want that way.

 

Later on I decided to stick with the New Testament. When I thought I should "find my way" again, I mostly got scare tactics and promises of eternal damnation.

 

But...what about the eternal love of God? What about gratitude for the deliverance from your misery by God? The Bible is about the good news...not simply the bad news.

 

My question is: why would God promise eternal damnation in so many instances if there is always a way out through complete submittance?

 

The answer is that God promises eternal love and life. He does not simply promise eternal damnation.

 

You answered most of my questions half way and I definitely see the dead point here, especially considering I don't have a english bible with me, I really don't have the justification to argue with you. And really can't fault you for not answering my questions. Sorry about that. The sites were interesting but mostly just as biased as the Davinci Code believers.

 

I am sorry that I did not answer your questions to your satisfaction. There were cases when I did not understand what your question or contradiction was. I am not trying to argue, but if I can clear the air regarding what your concern is, then I am successful. I do not think that I can persuade you that everything I say is correct, but if I can at least get you to see a different viewpoint and consider it...then I am successful. This is not a debate to me where one side wins or loses. From what you have said, you have been raised differently than one usually expects in a church, or your perceptions of it are different than what I have heard most commonly in my area.

 

The Davinci film was historically incorrect. It is not just Christian theologians that say that. But Dan Brown evades this by saying it was a novel. He is correct, but even when writing a novel, one must be as accurate as possible when using history as its basis.

[ElvenPriestess]

Oh no I don't.

 

I'm not about to go through these sites and argue every point.

 

One at a time is feasable, and I'll ask one more time for people to give me the contradictions that they want addressed one at a time with the specific verse in question.

 

It isn't that hard to do, after all, a couple of you did provide links and these links usually have the verses in question.

 

Copy and Paste if you have to......

 

While I did give a link my question was more of proving the point of the second coming. Since as far as I'm concerned there's NOTHING that says that's true, then I can't give you versus backing up what I think doesn't exist. But if you DO know of versus, especially and I ask in the OT I would appreciate your input.

[j_hunt_12]

Phophets in the Old Testament had many wives. I'll take it one step at a time. If I can handle one, I'll go for a few more.... j/k:)

 

Here's a few of those verses I don't like. Punishment with death goes against what I thought the New Testament was about: salvation, repentance:

 

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

 

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

 

Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself."

 

Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

 

Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her."

 

Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

 

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

 

 

More:

 

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:29)"

 

Ok two ways to look at this: 1) This is to warn against becoming addicted to lust and to cut off from it before you fall from the path which will lead to hell, BUT I would love to see one reformed christian tell me they don't look at other women. Maybe it will not consume your soul, but this is a sin ALL strait men make very frequently.

 

2) What if it just means lust is a sin that will end in hell unless you cut your own eye out because your eye is going to hell? Metaphorical?? Who knows.. It's a different time that we dont understand.

 

More:

 

Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink, the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

 

"We have a young sister, and her breasts are not yet grown. What shall we do for our sister for the day she is spoken for? (Song of Songs 8:8)" and later about the sister....."I am a wall, and my breasts are like towers. Thus I have become in his eyes like one bringing contentment. (Song of Songs 8:10)"

 

Proverbs 5:19 "A loving doe, a graceful deer, may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love."

 

Proverbs 7:18 "Come, let's drink deep of love till morning; let's enjoy ourselves with love!"

 

Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts."

 

Song of Songs 1:16 "How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant"

 

I never really knew about these last ones at all, so don't add them to my argument. I'm just curious what this means. Considering I do know a fair deal about the Bible, it's strange I've never come across this before. I'm actually confident there is an explanation.. Already married, describing sinners, but I dont know it and wish I had my Bible.

 

Soak on that... Explain it... and I'll try to find more later

 

good night

Edited January 10, 2008 by j_hunt_12

[Moose]

While I did give a link my question was more of proving the point of the second coming. Since as far as I'm concerned there's NOTHING that says that's true, then I can't give you versus backing up what I think doesn't exist. But if you DO know of versus, especially and I ask in the OT I would appreciate your input.

So you want me to do the work for you? How will this convince you? I honestly believe it wouldn't do either of us any good, (especially you), if you can't take the time to research verse by verse the ones you have issues with.

 

Ain't gonna happen...unless you take the time and go back to the site in question, copy one point, paste it here and I'll address them.

 

If you're not willing to do that, why should I be willing to give you any of my input?

[ElvenPriestess]

So you want me to do the work for you? How will this convince you? I honestly believe it wouldn't do either of us any good, (especially you), if you can't take the time to research verse by verse the ones you have issues with.

 

Ain't gonna happen...unless you take the time and go back to the site in question, copy one point, paste it here and I'll address them.

 

If you're not willing to do that, why should I be willing to give you any of my input?

 

Ok, first thing is I DID post verses earlier, I have done research, and all the verses in that site were just so many I thought clicking the link to be easier. I just asked if you knew something I DIDN'T know, verses I am not aware of pointing to the second coming. If that's too much to ask then forget I mentioned it. Sorry.

[Moose]

Ok, first thing is I DID post verses earlier

You haven't posted one single verse, (in this thread)......BTW, it takes two verses in direct conflict to be concidered a contradiction.

[ElvenPriestess]

Look at this

 

Deuteronomy 4:2 "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

 

Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

 

There. That's my contradiction to the NT all together. As you can see I did post them. But don't worry. It's no big deal.

[Moose]

AH! I missed that one....my sincere apologies!!

 

I do have an answer to your contradiction, but it's very lengthy so it'll have to wait until I get home tonight.....but I promise you I will take care of this one....

[ElvenPriestess]

AH! I missed that one....my sincere apologies!!

 

I do have an answer to your contradiction, but it's very lengthy so it'll have to wait until I get home tonight.....but I promise you I will take care of this one....

 

Well I'll look forward to your answer then:)

[amethyst3]

Oh no I don't.

 

I'm not about to go through these sites and argue every point.

 

One at a time is feasable, and I'll ask one more time for people to give me the contradictions that they want addressed one at a time with the specific verse in question.

 

It isn't that hard to do, after all, a couple of you did provide links and these links usually have the verses in question.

 

Copy and Paste if you have to......

 

Ok, here's 1):

 

Genesis 1:3-5 (King James Version)

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

Genesis 1:14-19 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

 

2)

Genesis 12:7 (King James Version)

7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

 

Genesis 18:1 (King James Version)

1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

 

Exodus 6:2-3 (King James Version)

2And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

 

Exodus 33:20 (King James Version)

20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

 

John 1:18 (King James Version)

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

1 John 4:12 (King James Version)

12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

 

And 3)

 

Genesis 17:8 (King James Version)

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

 

Acts 7:2-5 (King James Version)

2And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

3And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

4Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

 

4)

 

Genesis 17:15-16 (King James Version)

15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife (his sister), thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

 

Leviticus 20:17 (King James Version)

17And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

Edited January 10, 2008 by amethyst3

[amethyst3]

Ooh, just one more. This one is on the God is love vs. the vengeful, pro-war, spiteful God.

 

 

The Vengeful Lord:

 

Exodus 15:3 (King James Version)

3The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

 

Numbers 25:4 (King James Version)

4And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

 

Numbers 32:14 (King James Version)

14And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.

 

Isaiah 42:13 (King James Version)

13The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

 

And the loving god:

 

1 John 4:16 (King James Version)

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

1 John 4:8 (King James Version)

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

2 Corinthians 13:14 (King James Version)

14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

Romans 15:33 (King James Version)

33Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

[amethyst3]

OK and this is it and I'm done for today ( gotta go home!)

 

Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.

Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.

 

 

To suffer:

 

Isaiah 14:21-22 (King James Version)

21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

 

Numbers 14:18 (King James Version)

18The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

 

Exodus 34:7 (King James Version)

7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

 

to not suffer:

 

Deuteronomy 24:16 (King James Version)

16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

Ezekiel 18:19-20 (King James Version)

19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

[Moose]

There. That's my contradiction to the NT all together. As you can see I did post them. But don't worry. It's no big deal.

Thanks for your understanding. This is last month of our fiscal year and I get pulled in literally 20 different directions and have to jet around 10 different States all month long.....so I'm a little rushed, obviously, a little tired, and a lot of stressed......and I completely skimmed right over it.

 

I honestly should've waited until after this quarter to begin this thread.....what's done is done.....anyway, thanks again.....

 

Everything that I post in here as responses or rebuttals should be taken as my opinion. I already know why most non-believers think the Bible is full of contradictions. I'm just demonstrating how someone like myself reads Scripture and hopefully many will gain from it.

 

Deuteronomy 4:2 - "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

 

Deuteronomy 12:32 - "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

 

The two verses you've quoted here are from the same book, same author. But do you know who wrote it and to whom? How about the situation surrounding it?

 

Think about it, God is about to give His Chosen race of people their own land. He's in the process of conditioning them to remain as pure as possible so that He can have a personal relationship with them.

 

It is the last day of 40 years these people spent out in the wilderness with no food, no water, and no new clothing. 40 years......God provided for them every step of the way.

 

While I appreciate the KJV, It's often confusing and doesn't seem to make much sense until you study and compare the original language and how they put sentences and thoughts together, with how we put our thoughts and sentences together in today's day and age.

 

These two verses are saying the same exact thing. They compliment each other, not contradict. That we can agree on, yes? (I'm assuming you agree here)

 

Your arguement is that the NEW Testament is the opposite of everything that Moses told God's Chosen people, or race to do. That is simply not the case. The New Testament NEGATES these, "rules and regulations".

 

Please understand......it DOES NOT negate the 10 Commandments, nor do these rules and regulation have anything to do with the 10 Commandments other than help these people follow them more efficiently.

 

Think of it like today's books on software, "How to Run a Country for Dummies" designed to keep them in God's good graces.

 

Now, let's fast forward some 1400 years later. Using critical thinking here we can accurately say that the times simply wouldn't be the same. The situation wouldn't be the same. The people wouldn't be the same. (Remember, these people still had their free will, and chose willingly to exercise this instead of adhering to these instructions.)

 

God in His Wisdom knew where His Chosen People, (and man in general) was and is headed. And He knew this even before the fall, even before Moses. (Deuteronomy 15:22)

 

Enter Christ, and the NEW Testament, or "Covenant" between God and ALL people.

 

He was sent to fulfill these, "rules and regulations" once and for all so that anyone who accepts or allows Him to pay their debt can have their relationship with God back, SINCE it's impossible to do this on our own, in especially in this day and age.

 

THIS, is the way I understand it.....

 

I welcome your comments or questions....and I hope I didn't leave anything out....

[Moose]

Ok, here's 1):

 

Genesis 1:3-5 (King James Version)

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

Genesis 1:14-19 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Yeah, this is a pretty good one. But an easy one to explain from my point of view. Your first verse, to me, describes "day and night" as the Earth rotates on it's axis. The second as it rotates in it's orbit around the Sun.

[Moose]

2)

Genesis 12:7 (King James Version)

7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

 

Genesis 18:1 (King James Version)

1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

 

Exodus 6:2-3 (King James Version)

2And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

 

Exodus 33:20 (King James Version)

20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

 

John 1:18 (King James Version)

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

1 John 4:12 (King James Version)

12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us

Do you see where this is going?

[Moose]

And 3)

 

Genesis 17:8 (King James Version)

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

 

Acts 7:2-5 (King James Version)

2And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

3And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

4Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

Yep, Stephen is just demonstrating that man can't work on God's time table.

 

The land, (in both accounts) to my understanding is paradise restored.

[Citizen Erased]

Not sure if this has been mentioned:

 

Leviticus 20:21:

"And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless."

 

Deuteronomy 25:5:

"If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her."

 

I doubt anything which anyone on here can say will ever settle this one. It has been debated for 500 years on the validity of one particular marriage, and had a huge effect on the English Reformation.

[Moose]

Genesis 17:15-16 (King James Version)

15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife (his sister), thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

 

Leviticus 20:17 (King James Version)

17And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

To answer this one, I must admit that I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that, "Sarai" is Abraham's sister. As far as I can tell, when Noah, his wife and three sons, and their wives stepped off the Ark there were multitudes born afterwards. (Genesis 10: 1-32).

 

Maybe you can point out how you came to that conclusion? Thanks!

Edited January 11, 2008 by Moose

[Moose]

Ooh, just one more. This one is on the God is love vs. the vengeful, pro-war, spiteful God.

 

 

The Vengeful Lord:

 

Exodus 15:3 (King James Version)

3The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

 

Numbers 25:4 (King James Version)

4And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

 

Numbers 32:14 (King James Version)

14And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.

 

Isaiah 42:13 (King James Version)

13The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

 

And the loving god:

 

1 John 4:16 (King James Version)

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

1 John 4:8 (King James Version)

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

2 Corinthians 13:14 (King James Version)

14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

Romans 15:33 (King James Version)

33Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

I hope I don't need to explain the differences between the Old and New Covenants again......do I?

[Moose]

It is so often accepted he didn't fulfill or even follow the scriptures predicting Him in the Torah, that now there's a second coming? Moose, if you could, show me please where it talks about a SECOND coming?

I've covered this already, but I was skimming over and promised to address this point specifically.

 

If you read Dueteronomy 18:15 you'll see a little of Christ in the, "Torah".

 

I'll let you digest that, (and respond) I've got to prepare for another long day.....thanks for posting....!

[Moose]

Not sure if this has been mentioned:

 

Leviticus 20:21:

"And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless."

 

Deuteronomy 25:5:

"If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her."

 

I doubt anything which anyone on here can say will ever settle this one. It has been debated for 500 years on the validity of one particular marriage, and had a huge effect on the English Reformation.

Simple one.....I can't believe that what you said has had such impact on the, "English Reformation".

 

Leviticus is speaking of one brother "taking" another living brother's wife, (for sex) while Deuteronomy is speaking of a brother taking over his dead brother's duty as, "husband" for the dead brother's surviving wife.

 

In both instances, in this time, day and age, either way the woman is defiled in their eyes.

 

She would be deemed worthless, and unclean to any other man and likely would die in poverty unless these rules were in place.

 

I hope that makes sense.....nite nite peoples....