NoIDidn't Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 What I don't understand is why the possibility of a marriage being *abusive* is always brought up. Why the extremes? A bad marriage doesn't have to be an abusive one. I agree with Owl. Not all marriages can be saved or are worth saving. But whatever is to be done is up to the parties who exchanged the vows, not the people who stand to gain from the break up of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 No, I meant real abuse. Physical abuse, drug addiction, etc. You know better. (But I assume that was just some sarcasm on your part. ) Partly, because it's true that I knew what you meant. Mostly I wanted to make the point that abuse means different things to different people, and that it's not a word to be used lightly. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 No, I meant real abuse. Physical abuse, drug addiction, etc. You know better. (But I assume that was just some sarcasm on your part. ) Emotional abuse is VERY real Rb! Some people do it and are victim to it and don't even realise it. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Emotional abuse is VERY real Rb! Some people do it and are victim to it and don't even realise it. I know what you meant by abuse, but I do consider what Mr. Messy Pants' affair mental and emotional abuse. I know that isn't the norm. And I know you meant physical, mental and sexual abuse. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I know what you meant by abuse, but I do consider what Mr. Messy Pants' affair mental and emotional abuse. I know that isn't the norm. And I know you meant physical, mental and sexual abuse. I didn't actually!? I just meant emotional abuse, sexual and physical of course are emotional too but there doesn't have to be sexual and physical crossing of lines in order for it to be emotional, it pretty much stands on it's own if need be. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I didn't actually!? I just meant emotional abuse, sexual and physical of course are emotional too but there doesn't have to be sexual and physical crossing of lines in order for it to be emotional, it pretty much stands on it's own if need be. Sorry Tomcat, I meant that for Reboot. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Wandering aimlessly can also be a journey. It involves movement, which is what a journey is. I've gone on wonderful journeys like that in my youth - a bunch of friends hitchhiking and seeing where we land up, who we'll meet and what we'll learn. I agree with you on the growth issue - which I suppose is the same as the movement issue. If you're growing and moving, you're living. If you're static and stagnating, your journey has stalled and you need to get out and push! I thought my M would be a journey; for my H it was a goal. We lived in a stagnant R for years. I now want someone who I can journey with and be ever moving forward. I would marry MM in a hearbeat. Even if he did cheat on me, CB, I think he would be fairly good at it and I probably wouldn't know, expect that I know of our experience and that would probably keep him on his toes. It astounds me how well he takes care of his W. If she found out, yeah sure, she would be shocked. But I think she would be mostly shocked at how attentive he was to her during the entire thing and how the hell did he do it?! Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I agree...an abusive situation is NOT a 'normal marriage'. The same rules don't apply. Did he feel it was abusive before he started the affair, or did he decide it was abusive AFTER he'd already become involved with someone else? Do others outside of the marriage (and the affair) also feel it could be an abusive relationship? His colleagues, friends and family have been telling him for years it's abusive. He, like many other abused spouses, refused to admit that. Even the counsellor when they went for MC told them the M was abusive, which was why W left and refused to return. This was way long before the A. Link to post Share on other sites
Daphne Crane Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I would marry him without a second thought. He is just that sweet but his brother thinks for some reason thinks I would change towards him. Link to post Share on other sites
Love is Tragic Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 and asked you to marry him, would you? Do you love your MM enough to want to be his W? Do you think you can stand being with him every night? How many of you actually want to have a real relationship with the MM? Since I asked, I might as well answer..... I sure would in a heart beat. I love him enough to want to be his W and cook for him. I have been practicing it for sometime now, I know I would love to have him every night. I want a real relationship and not just occassional banging. If exMM were to come to me all of a sudden, even after all these months of NC, i think i would still be with him, not necessarily marry him, but i would probably still give up certain things to be with him, sad to say. Of course, my situation is different-i wasnt a single OW, and i am now an exOW, but still very much in love with exMM. Which i hate myself for, and kick myself over it often. I just cant shake the connection and chemistry we had, he was really the only one who ever truely "got" me. So yeah, i would be with him-i wouldnt jump into another marriage again-but i would definitely be with him. Link to post Share on other sites
jaslene2009 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 That is Right ! We do what is best for US. If this is not the train you want to ride than don't but a ticket. We are okay with our relationships even if it's with a MM or MW or a single person. I dated single men and they all cheat. At least I know what to expect from a MM. It's all good! I'm going to have to burst your bubble and fill you in on one thing I've learned.....SINGLE PEOPLE cheat too!!!! I have tons of respect for myself......I just don't believe any person (married, single, monogomous...etc.) can ultimately say "I would never cheat!" Just because he's single doesn't make his promises any more solid or believable....There are way too many people (single and married) that have to eat on those words already!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
jaslene2009 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 We are okay. Good for you if you do not cheat. But a Man's Eyes Will never be satisfied" that quote is in the bible. Therefore, do what you have to do for happiness on this earth. Life is tooooo short to play the boring violin. I have never cheated. The odds of a man not cheating are nil but you have men who honor their vows and keep their promises, no matter what. So in this generation were all messed up but just because you see it alot doesnt mean you never will see the opposite it does exist out there you just gotta find it. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Where is that quote in the bible? But you do know the bible says thou shalt not commit adultery. Link to post Share on other sites
jaslene2009 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Well OwL, I can tell that you probably made her feel like you have all the answers to everything. This could have made her feel inadequate in some ways. Whether she was able to give you examples of her unhappiness is neither here nor there. She was unhappy and it should have been take for just that. I don't think most people stray when they are in a healthy relationship. My husband did me that same way by judging everything everybody does and I was opposite. In the end, it pushed me away from him. I found myself meeting men with no judgements and no expectations.How about meeting poeple where they are instead of demands. Sometimes things we think are important has no inportance at all. Rewriting a marriage, what does that mean? Maybe you had built a illusion in your mind of how your marriage should be and it turned out to be very different. Circumstances are Circumstances, something happened in your marriage to make her not chose you and chose the other M. What roles did you play? Sounds like you are blaming her for everything. It takes two to make and to break it ! I agree...an abusive situation is NOT a 'normal marriage'. The same rules don't apply. Did he feel it was abusive before he started the affair, or did he decide it was abusive AFTER he'd already become involved with someone else? Do others outside of the marriage (and the affair) also feel it could be an abusive relationship? Again, remember what I said about perceptions. He began re-writing marital history the moment the affair began...or even as things began leading up to it. He's not a good judge at this point of what his marriage was like before. And given your involvement with him, neither are you. His spouse clearly can't be considered an accurate source either, if she is responsible for being an abuser. So how do you 'prove' its an abusive marriage at this point? What do the kids who live in the home say? They'd be the only other people close enough to the situation to be able to see the abuse. Otherwise all you've got are two distinctly disparate views that you can't possibly reconcile to a truth with. My wife, while in her affair...was convinced she "hadn't been happy in years!". I asked her for concrete examples of her unhappiness. What specific things was she unhappy with all that time? When did she tell me? What did she do to help fix the problem? She couldn't come up with one thing more than a year old. She claimed she'd been bottling up that unhappy all those years...but couldn't show me any point at any time when she was unhappy with something, couldn't show any actions that she'd taken to tell me or fix the problem. During counseling, it went from "not happy for years" to "not happy for the last few years", and finally down to "not happy for the last year"...which I could clearly see was the truth. She re-wrote our marriage in her mind. Nothing to back it up with. Nearly every WS does this. And that's why I'd question the truth of the abusive relationship. BUT...if it is in any way abusive...he should cut and run. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Well OwL, I can tell that you probably made her feel like you have all the answers to everything. This could have made her feel inadequate in some ways. Whether she was able to give you examples of her unhappiness is neither here nor there. She was unhappy and it should have been take for just that. I don't think most people stray when they are in a healthy relationship. My husband did me that same way by judging everything everybody does and I was opposite. In the end, it pushed me away from him. I found myself meeting men with no judgements and no expectations.How about meeting poeple where they are instead of demands. Sometimes things we think are important has no inportance at all. Rewriting a marriage, what does that mean? Maybe you had built a illusion in your mind of how your marriage should be and it turned out to be very different. Circumstances are Circumstances, something happened in your marriage to make her not chose you and chose the other M. What roles did you play? Sounds like you are blaming her for everything. It takes two to make and to break it ! OK, first off, the reason she was unable to give examples of why she was unhappy was absolutely the point I was trying to make...it was because THEY DIDN'T EXIST. She couldn't quote something that never happened. She was rationalizing why her cheating was "OK"...just as you are now. What she was specifically unhappy wasn't YEARS...it was that last year...and was directly tied to her untreated depression. That untreated depression also greatly impacted her interaction with the kids...and with me. Which caused even MORE problems. But it hadn't been "years"...it hadn't been "most of the marriage"...it was much less than that. But in her mind, she rationalized her cheating by saying that she'd been unhappy for a much longer time...it gave her a "reason" to cheat. THAT is 're-writing marital history'. Go look it up on marriagebuilders.com if you need further clarification. And...for the record. We're nearly four years past her affair now. We've talked about this many times since then...and even SHE can't see what she was talking about back then. My role in things? Not pushing for her to see the doctor hard enough. Not understanding what was really driving her erratic behavior. Not knowing how to deal with that depression, and the sudden change in my wife's behavior. I also didn't know how to deal with her sudden inattention to me and the kids, and the 16+ hours/day spent on the computer instead of doing anything else. I accept responsibility for not knowing how to deal with those things. I do NOT accept ANY responsibility for her choice to cheat. I was in the same horrible marriage for that last year that she was...in fact, I was the only one actively trying to figure out what was going on...the only one trying to find SOME way of making things better. And I WASN'T the one who chose to cheat. Your last comment..."It takes two to make and to break it !". Close, but no cigar. It DEFINITELY takes two to make it...that's a certain fact! But it really only takes ONE partner in a marriage to break it. One selfish person is all that's needed to destroy the marriage by cheating. One person insistent upon their OWN desires before and above anyone elses. That selfishness and insistence isn't created by the BS...its typically part of the character makeup of the WS to begin with. They simply chose to give it free reign over their choices long enough to destroy the marriage. If you want to discuss this further...start a new thread asking me about it...lets not TJ this thread any further. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Where is that quote in the bible? But you do know the bible says thou shalt not commit adultery. I really would like to know where in the bible that is, so I can read it. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 You can find it at Proverbs 27:20. What's interesting is that in that context, its not justifying that its ok to behave that way. You have to love when someone quotes one PORTION of a sentence from the bible to completely turn around the actual intent of what was written there. The whole sentence reads: "Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied." Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 You can find it at Proverbs 27:20. What's interesting is that in that context, its not justifying that its ok to behave that way. You have to love when someone quotes one PORTION of a sentence from the bible to completely turn around the actual intent of what was written there. The whole sentence reads: "Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied." I figured it would be taken out of context, that's why I wanted to read it in full. Thanks Owl. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts