If betrayal was involved...don't even try!

[oppath]

 

You read as a strong, intelligent woman, that has the ability to be a good partner. I don't think he deserves you and you would be selling a piece of your integrity by settling for the treatment that he has displayed and repeated through out his relationships.

 

. He will always treat people the way that he does and twist the logic and rewrite the past to accommodate his sense of entitlements. I just count myself lucky to not be sucked back in.

 

That's a big one. Other people sometimes never question their own arrogance to acknowledge their own fault.

[Tormented]

I very much want to pull a bunch of your quotes out of this thread and send them in an email to my ex. You have SO validated me and my position.

 

Watch, I am glad that what I've said here has helped you in your situation (and your posts have certainly helped me as well!), but if I were you, I'd hold up on those emails. At this point, what good would it do? Would it change anything? Change what has happened? No, it wouldn't. If anything, sending them would only serve to strengthen her case that you're "jealous and controlling." Don't give her the satisfaction.

 

But what good would it do to send her an email with this stuff in it? I'm sure it wouldn't do any good. She is who she is and how she is. Me sending her this great info would be a waste and would break my NC and possibly make me look NEEDY! Don't need that. So she can live her life that way and repeat those mistakes and lead that includes acting that way and the repercussions.

 

Rest assured...she WILL continue with this pattern in her future relationships, just as she has in her past ones. And really, do you really want to spend your life with a person as unstable as this? She, like my ex, seem to have a poor impulse control...a problem that will cause both themselves and others anguish for the rest of their lives if they don't change their ways - which is very unlikely.

 

I know it hurts to cut them loose...Lord, do I know...but to throw your life away on people such as your ex and mine is a tragedy. I don't want my life to become a tragedy - I want it to count!

 

We'll get through this, Watch...one day at a time!

 

Thanks so much for your words.

 

You are very welcome. You've helped me as well...thank you!

 

~T~

[watchconcierge]

You are very welcome. You've helped me as well...thank you!

 

~T~

 

 

To be clear... I didn't intend to write her an email. I won't do it. I won't give her the satisfaction of attempting to communicate. She sent me 4 texts, today and a few text yesterday and a phone call without me responding.

 

I'm not going to give in after 6 days this time like I did last time. It wasn't worth it. She betrayed me. I am unable on a subconscious level to move past that. There is no reason for me to think about her anymore. Even though I will and this isn't exactly a "breeze."

 

No communication from me, though. That's for sure!

 

T

[underpants]

That's a big one. Other people sometimes never question their own arrogance to acknowledge their own fault.

 

Oh yea...so I have learned.

 

I believe my ex takes the cake ...(has it, eats it, looks at his reflection in the icing)....in this department.

[oppath]

Oh yea...so I have learned.

 

I believe my ex takes the cake ...(has it, eats it, looks at his reflection in the icing)....in this department.

 

Mine too. In any bad, drama filled breakup, it usually takes two people for the drama to escalate. The dumpee might be irrational, but usually the dumper did something that 9/10 people would say is objectively wrong to add to the injury. A little accountability would go a long ways towards easing the pain, but in the absence of that, all you can do is make BETTER CHOICES with your future partners.

[serendip]

Of course she didn't, just as my ex chose not to. To do so would would mean taking responsibility for the damage and pain inflicted. Instead, they elect to shift the table and blame us for having "trust issues."

 

She sent me this back in september...this was the closest she came to taking responsibility for her actions

 

"I am trying to let go of things and move on, but it is hard to forget everything that happened. I am still upset about all that stuff that happened. It makes me feel like I can't trust anybody anymore. I thought we had a really great relatioship but now everything seems like it was so wrong. It is hard for me to see you as the same person, but i know you are. Anyways, i guess it is too difficult to be friends because of everything that happened. We are bound to have resentment for each other. i just wish I could get over that. Sometimes i wonder how things would have worked out if I hadn't moved out here...but I guess I figured at the time that if things were really meant to be for us it would work out despite the distance and it would be a good test of the relationship. Maybe it would have worked out if i hadn't met this other guy...cause you were willing to do the long distance thing with me. I ghuess it was too hard to work things out long distance when you were so hurt. I just wish you had been honest with me right from the beginning (since Christmas)....Maybe we would have worked things out if you had told me the truth instead of spy on my behind my back. I feel like you were Big Brother or something... It is a horrible feeling..especially since I cared about you so much

Anyways i know you would argue it was my fault since I cheated on you and started this whole chain reaction...I guess you are right but you are still responsible for your reaction to everything and I did try to be honest with you. What a horrible drama. It was like being in a soap opera...i never want my life to be like that again. I guess I learned a lot from the whole experience though. I think I should have broken up with you when I moved out here...I know I shouldn't have cheated on you (that is a given). I really don't know what came over me. It was this crazy intense attraction to this other guy. I don't even know why since he wasn't somebody I could see myself with in the future...but it was still this insane attraction. I think there must be a reason for it all...some lesson I was supposed to learn or something. I felt like he had something to teach me...This vagabond guy had some lessons in life that I felt I needed to learn.

All I can do is apologize to you for my actions. I know that you are a really good person and I want to remember you in a positive way..but it is really hard to forget all that stuff. I wish we could just sit down and talk about things. I really had the feeling when I was with you that you were the right guy for me long term (I even told you a few times that I wanted to marry you.). You made me so happy and I loved being with you. I had the sense of security and love from you that nobody else has ever given me. I really did love you a lot. I'm so sorry I hurt you the way I did. It was horrible of me."

[child_of_isis]

Yup! When the pain of being with them outweighs the pain of being without them...it's time to move on.

 

To be in a relationship where you always feel guarded, where you doubt 50% or more of what they say, where you find yourself in a state of anxiety because you just KNOW the boomer is coming, where you can't relax and enjoy the fun times for fear they are going to be ripped away from you by another betrayal...to be in that type of relationship is hell. Very toxic for your well-being - both physically and psychologically. And you find yourself wondering which is worse...living your life WITH them, or WITHOUT them.

 

[Tormented]

She didn't tell me this and broke up with me one week later after acting evasive all week. I felt quite manipulated when she asked me to be friends with benefits 2 weeks later and I learned from a friend about her ex.

 

That's awful! Evasiveness is a red flag that there's something going on in most cases. So now, she broke up with you because her ex proposed, then asked you to be 'friends with benefits' 2 weeks later while she was still with him? Oh man...she's a REAL catch, isn't she? Be glad, be very glad you're rid of her!

 

Where can i learn? Boundaries.

 

Most definitely. Having boundaries is what prevents you from being treated poorly. The minute you bend those boundaries is the minute they'll lose respect for you and take advantage.

 

As soon as we are exclusive, if you are talking to your ex, I want you to say "oh, by the way, I have a new boyfriend."

 

Personally, I think it's disrespectful to be in frequent contact with an ex while in an exclusive relationship, unless there are children/finances involved. Other than that, there is absolutely no reason for it. But if contact is made, the current relationship should be made known, most definitely. How would she feel if the tables were reversed and it was you who was in contact with an ex and neglected to mention you had a girlfriend? Don't think she would have liked it at all.

 

 

Alot of people do not take their betrayal into their next relationship because they have more tight boundaries. So be less forgiving. If anything, you sometimes need to be more jealous and controlling.

 

Never again will I return to a relationship where betrayal took place. I have learned that once the trust has been destroyed it is impossible to regain the love, trust, and respect the relationship once had. The dynamics have changed...permanently, and you will never see the betrayer in the same light again, no matter how hard you try.

 

Best to cut your losses and walk away...for good.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

LOL... You are right! I was actually being accused of cheating by the betrayer on... like... a third level... I had a reason to be suspicious and then would get accused by the person who did it before... by accusing me of cheating and the proof was that I was accusing her... the proven betrayer. HA HA!! Touche

 

A typical cheater's behavior. Thrust the weight of their guilt onto the shoulders of the betrayed to take the focus (and guilt) off of

them. That trick was pulled on me as well. Instead of defending myself, which is what he wanted to take the heat off of him, I instead called him on his game - told him I knew what he was trying to do and it wasn't going to work. Ever watch a liar come out of the bag when they're nailed between the eyes with the truth? If it wasn't for the pain involved, their harsh reaction would be comical.

 

You know, it's strange. He and I have broken up so many times in the past I've lost count. And it would tear me up everytime. This time, though...it's different somehow. I'm just not that upset about it. I don't know that I feel much of anything at this point. If anything, relief has set in because I've been dealing with this hell off and on for almost 2 years now. For the first time in MONTHS, I don't feel anxious or upset. Just sort of a state of acceptance and to be honest, it feels good.

 

I do, however, feel badly for his future mates because they have absolutely NO idea what they're in for. He comes across as a good, loyal, genuine man and he's quite good at his game. I've absolutely no doubt that whoever he's with he'll cheat on. His record proves that much.

 

But at least it's no longer MY problem...

 

~T~

[Tormented]

I don't get cheating. I just don't.

 

Until you acquire the ability to become a selfish liar with NO conscience, you'll never 'get it.'

 

~T~

[Tormented]

You read as a strong, intelligent woman, that has the ability to be a good partner. I don't think he deserves you and you would be selling a piece of your integrity by settling for the treatment that he has displayed and repeated through out his relationships.

 

Thanks, Undie, but I'm not feeling to "strong and intelligent" after allowing this jerk to take me on the ride he did. At this point, I'm not sure who I'm more angrier with - him or me. Yes, he is what he is, but I allowed him back into my life, didn't I? Fully knowing what he did, what he is capable of, yet deluded myself into thinking that it would never happen again, that I could eventually trust him again. Not exactly the traits of a "strong and intelligent" woman, now is it?

 

Ah well, what is done is done and nothing can change that. So the only thing I can do at this point is to offer my hard-earned 'jewels of knowledge' to anybody who will listen with the hope of sparing another the hell I went through. Never again...

 

Believe it or not, your threads have helped me too.

 

I'm glad to hear that, Undie. Lord knows you've helped many on this board at a time they most needed it.

 

We both fell off our turnip trucks at about the same time.

 

It was not too long ago that I had that "oh snap" contact. After seeing him again, I just felt a sort of contempt. He will always treat people the way that he does and twist the logic and rewrite the past to accommodate his sense of entitlements. I just count myself lucky to not be sucked back in. In part your story as well as other valuable insights here helped me to not want to go there again. He actually kind of repulses me.

 

Undie, I don't remember if there was any cheating/lying involved in your relationship with this guy. But the traits you mention above are the makings of one. Mine did the exact same thing...twisted logic to justify his actions, had a bad case of selective memory, tended to blame others for his faults and wrong-doing, and had a false sense of righteousness in all that he did. Everything was about him and the hell with everybody else. He honestly lacked the ability to see things from the eyes of others, to acknowledge how his words/actions can hurt. And if you brought a valid point up that weakened his stance, he will instantly attempt to minimize the facts pointed out, no matter how strong the evidence is. And when all else fails, he'd quickly change the subject. Trying to rationalize with this man was absolutely maddening!

 

Thats funny that you say you would rather be alone. That was on of the first things I said to my ex. 'Being alone is better then being with you'. I was actually relieved for a while, like I was on vacation.

 

Ha! I would've loved to seen the look on his face when you told him that. Bet it went over like a fart in church, huh? At this point, I really do prefer being on my own than being in a relationship that brought me nothing but anguish, pain, distrust and anxiety. If a relationship doesn't provide some happiness, serenity and joy, then it's time to walk away. Relationships should boost you up to the best person you can be...not tear you down to ground level.

 

While I have honestly had bouts of lonely times here and there, my heart is not with him. It is open for an opportunity with someone better for me. If I never get another shot at romance, it is still better then a proven bad relationship.

 

Amen to that, sista! I'm fully prepared to deal with times of lonliness, but this time I won't start doubting my decision. I've been down that road before and I know how lonliness and time can weaken you, can make you forget just how bad the relationship was. Next thing you know, you start focusing on the "good times" while completely shutting out all the bad. I won't fall into that trap again...not this time. Like you, I choose to ride it out and wait for somebody better suited. And if that "one" doesn't show up, well...so be it. I still think being alone is better than being in a toxic relationship.

 

Just give yourself some time. You may have never truely and fully let him go. Once you do that other men will start to look very attractive.

 

I've been back and forth with this man so many times I've lost count. But something is different this time...something within me. I don't know, can't really put my finger on it, but I'm just not that upset about it, not like I was in the past. I kind of feel a sense of relief, as strange as that may be. Maybe I needed to return to satisfy my nagging curiousity as to whether or not it could work...if I could get my head around the trust issue. I now know without a doubt that I will never trust him again and this relationship can NEVER be what it once was as a result. I also learned that I lost a of respect for him, and with it, I lost feeling for him as well. I caught myself numerous times cutting my eyes away from him as though I couldn't stand the sight of him. I never did that before but I did this time around. My tone was sharper with him, I had less patience with him, wasn't as concerned with his feelings/well-being as I once was. Nor did I place a high priority on those things he felt were important. The flame was gone.

 

That is too bad about the motorcycle guy. Don't kick yourself for that either. You could try to contact him again though, if you think you might have not given him a real chance?

 

He's on my "MySpace" buddy list and I shot him a short note asking him how he's been. He wasted no time replying (within 2 hours), and seemed to be glad to hear from me. We've exchanged a few emails back and forth...so we'll see where that will go. I liked him...very laid back with a quick wit to him. But right now, I'm not really ready for anything heavy.

 

I'm rooting for you Tor.

 

Thanx, Undie. It's always good to have good people in your corner!

 

~T~

[watchconcierge]

Never again will I return to a relationship where betrayal took place. I have learned that once the trust has been destroyed it is impossible to regain the love, trust, and respect the relationship once had. The dynamics have changed...permanently, and you will never see the betrayer in the same light again, no matter how hard you try.

 

Best to cut your losses and walk away...for good.

 

~T~

 

Exactly! NEVER AGAIN! Once the betrayal has taken place, the dynamic is forever changed. If it happens to me ever again, I'm outta there right then and there.

[Tormented]

She sent me this back in september...this was the closest she came to taking responsibility for her actions

 

Wow, Dip...quite a letter!

 

It sounds like she knows she screwed up but is having a difficult time coming to terms with it. In one breath, she's pointing at you to take the fault of the relationship's demise. But then she turns around and acknowleges that her betrayal caused the end of the relationship, that it was wrong, that she's sorry she hurt you...but again points out that your "spying" is what caused it - once again attempting to take the blame off of her shoulders.

 

It struck a nerve in me when she says that you "were the best she's ever had, that you brought her security and happiness."

 

My ex told me that very same thing...that I was the best in many ways that he's ever had. He said that I'm the only woman he's known that he could trust, and that he'd like to spend the rest of his life with me.

 

If what our exes are saying is true, you have to ask yourself WHY they did what they did? Why would you deliberately sabotage a relationship that brought you happiness, serenity and love?

 

I tell you, people like our exes are majorly screwed up. And the sad part? They'll do it again to future partners, guaranteed.

 

But at least it isn't our problem anymore!

 

After receiving that letter, did you respond?

 

~T~

[serendip]

If what our exes are saying is true, you have to ask yourself WHY they did what they did? Why would you deliberately sabotage a relationship that brought you happiness, serenity and love?

 

I tell you, people like our exes are majorly screwed up. And the sad part? They'll do it again to future partners, guaranteed.

 

But at least it isn't our problem anymore!

 

After receiving that letter, did you respond?

 

~T~

 

Exactly if I was so great...why would she cheat? We were super happy together...she wanted to marry me. It just absolutely destroyed my faith...and I seeked revenge(which is wrong) by manipulating her so she could see how I felt.

 

here's what happen...I did respond to her. It was alright and she responded...but then I made a comparison with her cheating and my neighbour's ex girlfriend cheating.....she blew up at me. Start reading at post #22

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132707&page=2

 

The spying refers to...me reading her emails(she gave me password) after I became suspicious that she was cheating on me again. This is after I forgave her the first time. It killed me for months and months but I truly forgave her...and then I went nuts after I found out she went out with the same guy she cheated on me with behind my back...

 

Now this is what's happening to us now

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t138420/

 

It's been pretty bad....but at the end of it ...I just wished her the best on the 2nd...I didn't want to go on this emotional roller coaster anymore.

 

I don't know if I can ever fully heal from this crazy situation but I know it gets better everyday.

 

I hope you heal too Tormented. Your thread at first made me really angry with the ex b/c it brought back some painful memories. It validated my position. I just want to get over this pain of betrayal. Thank you though.

[CaliGuy]

She sent me this back in september...this was the closest she came to taking responsibility for her actions

 

"I am trying to let go of things and move on, but it is hard to forget everything that happened. I am still upset about all that stuff that happened. It makes me feel like I can't trust anybody anymore. I thought we had a really great relatioship but now everything seems like it was so wrong. It is hard for me to see you as the same person, but i know you are. Anyways, i guess it is too difficult to be friends because of everything that happened. We are bound to have resentment for each other. i just wish I could get over that. Sometimes i wonder how things would have worked out if I hadn't moved out here...but I guess I figured at the time that if things were really meant to be for us it would work out despite the distance and it would be a good test of the relationship. Maybe it would have worked out if i hadn't met this other guy...cause you were willing to do the long distance thing with me. I ghuess it was too hard to work things out long distance when you were so hurt. I just wish you had been honest with me right from the beginning (since Christmas)....Maybe we would have worked things out if you had told me the truth instead of spy on my behind my back. I feel like you were Big Brother or something... It is a horrible feeling..especially since I cared about you so much

Anyways i know you would argue it was my fault since I cheated on you and started this whole chain reaction...I guess you are right but you are still responsible for your reaction to everything and I did try to be honest with you. What a horrible drama. It was like being in a soap opera...i never want my life to be like that again. I guess I learned a lot from the whole experience though. I think I should have broken up with you when I moved out here...I know I shouldn't have cheated on you (that is a given). I really don't know what came over me. It was this crazy intense attraction to this other guy. I don't even know why since he wasn't somebody I could see myself with in the future...but it was still this insane attraction. I think there must be a reason for it all...some lesson I was supposed to learn or something. I felt like he had something to teach me...This vagabond guy had some lessons in life that I felt I needed to learn.

All I can do is apologize to you for my actions. I know that you are a really good person and I want to remember you in a positive way..but it is really hard to forget all that stuff. I wish we could just sit down and talk about things. I really had the feeling when I was with you that you were the right guy for me long term (I even told you a few times that I wanted to marry you.). You made me so happy and I loved being with you. I had the sense of security and love from you that nobody else has ever given me. I really did love you a lot. I'm so sorry I hurt you the way I did. It was horrible of me."

 

Even though she hints that things are her fault, she tries to offset it by calling you out for spying.

 

None of which would have happened had she remained faithful. The blame lies squarely on her and you're much better off without her in your life.

 

The sooner you realize that, the better off you are.

 

With my ex, I could never see me taking her back. I can't trust her and without trust, there can not be true love. And I dang sure don't want to live a life full of second guessing.

 

No way.

No how.

[Tormented]

Exactly! NEVER AGAIN! Once the betrayal has taken place, the dynamic is forever changed. If it happens to me ever again, I'm outta there right then and there.

 

You and me both! Lesson well learned!

 

~T~

[Tormented]

 

Exactly if I was so great...why would she cheat? We were super happy together...she wanted to marry me. It just absolutely destroyed my faith...and I seeked revenge(which is wrong) by manipulating her so she could see how I felt.

 

You know, to sabotage something that you claim made you happy is a form of self-destruction when you really think about it. Reading your story causes me to sit here and just shake my head because it rings so true to my own. I can still hear him say..."I want to spend the rest of my life with you." "You're the only woman I know who I can completely trust." "I love you, I see a future for us." "I only want to get married one more time in my life and I want it to be you." And on and on it went...yet, he constantly did and said things that eventually destroyed my trust and feelings for him and then tried to place the blame on MY shoulders for the demise of this relationship. Unreal...

 

As for manipulating your ex so she could "see how you felt," I don't think that will succeed. Why? Because if she had the ability to feel that kind of pain to begin with, she wouldn't have stepped out on you in the first place. Same applies to my ex. People like our exes are cut from a different mold than people like you and I, so the effort to "make them understand" will always be futile. They just don't have it in them - which is why it's best to just walk away.

 

 

The spying refers to...me reading her emails(she gave me password) after I became suspicious that she was cheating on me again. This is after I forgave her the first time. It killed me for months and months but I truly forgave her...and then I went nuts after I found out she went out with the same guy she cheated on me with behind my back...

 

The thing I detested the most about my relationship with the ex is...the person I became. I began to entertain suspicious thoughts (to the point of paranoia), and started snooping (his cell phone and personal belongings) for evidence that he was once again cheating, and DID find some suspicious things. Now, before this relationship, I was NEVER that kind of person. In fact, I was adamantly against violating the privacy of others as I value mine and wouldn't want anybody crossing those boundaries. Yet, there I was...snooping for "evidence" and I couldn't believe I was stooping to a level I always deemed "pathetic."

 

I never want to be that person again...

 

It's been pretty bad....but at the end of it ...I just wished her the best on the 2nd...I didn't want to go on this emotional roller coaster anymore.

 

Yep, that pretty much sums up the final chapter with my ex as well. I finally hit a point of no return, decided it was much easier to walk away than to deal with this on-going anguish. It's exhausting and toxic, and you finally reach the point of throwing in the towel because it's just not worth it anymore. In my case, I feel a sense of relief more than anything else.

 

 

I don't know if I can ever fully heal from this crazy situation but I know it gets better everyday.

 

I think I will be over him long before I'll be over the damage of what he did. I guess my biggest fear is that he damage done will be permanent...I hope not. I haven't seen him since the 31st of December (when I walked out the door and haven't been back), and haven't spoken to him since the 8th of this month on the phone of which I told him "goodbye." I've heard nothing from him so far, but if he calls (which I know he will), I will NOT answer. I am resolved to stay away from him...enough is enough.

 

I hope you heal too Tormented. Your thread at first made me really angry with the ex b/c it brought back some painful memories. It validated my position. I just want to get over this pain of betrayal. Thank you though.

 

These types of relationships (where betrayal is involved) is especially painful and damaging. A real mind-trip. You can get so mentally screwed up that you actually begin to question your OWN judgement. When the betrayer first suggests that YOU were the cause of their cheating, you immediately reject it. But as time goes on and the betrayer continues to chip away at your convictions, you slowly begin to wonder if it really IS you at fault here. It's crazy, and it's sick.

 

You and I have a long road to travel...but we'll eventually reach the other side to recovery.

 

I guess the important part of this is to take the hard-earned lesson we've gotten from this hellish experience and NEVER allow it to enter our lives again.

 

~T~

[Tormented]

With my ex, I could never see me taking her back. I can't trust her and without trust, there can not be true love. And I dang sure don't want to live a life full of second guessing.

 

No way.

No how.

 

Cali...I'm not familiar with your story. Was there betrayal involved?

 

~T~

[CaliGuy]

Cali...I'm not familiar with your story. Was there betrayal involved?

 

~T~

 

Yep. She was a liar and a user. That's all that needs to be said. In the end, she will get what she deserves.