sexless marriage after 23 years

[pickylady]

ok, here goes, married 24 years to the woman that I thought was my best friend and who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

 

We haven't had sex in 2 years, we appear loving and friendly to our 2 college and middle school kids...but I am so lonley.

 

We have no intimacy at all. My wife has no interest in sex.

 

This wasn't the plan. I am only in my mid 40's and I planned on having a rich and loving life. My kids are great loving people, we look like the model loving family on the outside.

 

I feel cold and lonely inside and am wondering if I should just throw in the towel and look for another mate for the rest of my life..this isn't life. I can still enjoy my kids with someone else...but I don't believe that I should stay in this SAD lonely situation only to become more and more miserable.

 

In case anyone is wondering I love my wife, there is no abuse, we are all very close, no infidelity and I come from a family of VERY long happy marriages.

 

Any ideas folks.... I am desperate and yes I am a Sad Dad...

 

You need someone who is attentive and appreciative for everything about you inside and out. It's time to look elsewhere for some much needed sex and whatever else you can attain from another relationship. Men who have sex on a regular basis are healthier. Don't forgo your health and needs just because a woman refuses to take part in her wifely obligations. You are too young to settle for no sex. Get some enjoyment and excitement back into your life.

Edited January 14, 2008 by pickylady

[saddad]

Hey Mr Lucky,

 

If it were just a case of being right....I wouldn't have tried to initate everything, tell her I love her everyday and bring up the issue of MC. I don't want to be right I want to be happy. I want her to be happy with me.

 

And to those out there that are encouraging me to find what I need elsewhere...what a horrible thing that would be to do to my wife. Infidelity is not the answer....it would just be another problem to deal with and I love my wife and kids too much to put them through that....I respect them too much.

[Tripper]

I don't want to be right I want to be happy. I want her to be happy with me.

 

Infidelity is not the answer....it would just be another problem to deal with and I love my wife and kids too much to put them through that....I respect them too much.

 

 

This is wise decision. You have enough to deal with, without throwing a whack of sneaking around and guilt into the equation.

 

 

I need to start taking care of me too. If it means starting a new life than it has to be better than the one I have now. I REALLY feel that her acceptance of the MC was just to shut me up. If she really saw merit in it or thought that we we on a bad track like I do wouldn't she have wanted to talk to me about it? Point is she didn't take me seriously and it makes me sick. Let me tell you that if my wife mentioned MC, I would sit up and take notice.

 

I am feeling so many emotions now.. I can't believe it....betrayal, disappointment, anger and now helplessness.

 

I don't think the MC would help at all and frankly I won't bring it up again.

 

It just depends on how much longer I can take it before I hit a breaking point.

 

It sounds like you've reached the decision point. Be it giving her an ultimatum such as change or I'm gone, or unilaterally deciding to end the marriage.

 

Ultimately you are responsible for your own happiness and sadly in a situation like yours it may mean leaving the marriage. You may want to start with a separation simply to see her reaction and if she would actually do anything to improve your relationship. However if you were to do that I would have a couple of ground rules: No dating others and time limit it. Minimum separation 6 mos while you work on the relationship.. Max 12 months.. no change in the relationship, here's the divorce papers.. I realize it's a last ditch effort, but it sounds like you still love your wife... you simply want her to treat you better...

 

Whatever you do, good luck...

[Eyerish]

I agree with bentnotbroken. You sound like a decent person in an unfortunate and difficult situation and leaving might be your only chance for long term happiness. There are many sympathetic voices in this forum to your situation (I am definitely one of them).

 

However unfortunately in conservative religious societies people, friends, and family may judge you more harshly - I hope they don't. There are those who believe that a man or woman cannot/should not have sexual desires and that a married woman must submit against her will or provide a 'wifely obligation' to her husband. These people are frankly misguided, repressed, weak (because they rely on 'instructions' in a story book to justify their own inadequacies), and power obsessed. I will probably get flamed for this view on religion but tough; I tell it like I see it.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Eyerish

[Mz. Pixie]

Sad,

 

I think you're not communicating it correctly. You need to be more point blank. Try something like this-

 

"Honey, I've been feeling unhappy for a while now and I've struggled with a way to explain that to you. Intimacy is an issue in our marriage in my opinion. I want us to see a marriage counselor because this is a "deal breaker" to me. I also want to make our marriage better and make you happier. But, I'm not willing to continue to live my life without physical intimacy, period. A marriage counselor should be able to help us. Are you willing to go this extra step with me with enthusiasm and committment? Because basically that is what it is going to take for me to stay in this marriage"

 

Shut up and wait for answer.

 

I think that you think starting over with a new person would help? Is there someone you're interested in???

 

Starting over with a new person might be nice at first but eventually you're going to have some type of problems with that person too. Something to think about.

 

Many women do not get how emotionally important sex is to a man in a long term relationship. That rejection of a man at this level can destroy a man's self esteem and make him feel unloved. Because they don't see love the same way. Make sense??

 

Basically she needs to know her marriage is on the line and she needs to learn how important sex is to you- at more than just a level to get a little tingle.

 

She's avoiding this issue- that is why you need to be point blank. What could you lose? You're already thinking of leaving her.

[Mr. Lucky]

She's avoiding this issue- that is why you need to be point blank. What could you lose? You're already thinking of leaving her.

This question has been asked several times but I don't think Saddad has really answered it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[saddad]

I agree with all of you. In fact I came home tonight and told her that we needed to find some time this weekend for a long, uninterrupted talk. She said ok, and didn't even ask what I wanted to talk about. I thought that was a little weird. BUt at least she acknowleged that we would talk.

 

Anyway, we'll get some time alone and get real. I'll fill you in after we talk.

 

I really don't have anything left to lose.

Edited January 15, 2008 by saddad

[Eyerish]

I knew I would stir up a hornets nest and every person has the same right to express themselves (including those who disagree with me) so let me answer NickL.

“You said: "There are those who believe that a man or woman cannot/should not have sexual desires and that a married woman must submit against her will or provide a 'wifely obligation' to her husband."

 

First of all I did not say 'all' referring to people of faith I said there are 'those'.

“

So

you're saying it's ok to have a sexless marriage if the wife wants it that way. Which is it?"

Of course it is not ok to be in a marriage or any relationship for that matter without passion for each other or sex and the wife may not want it that way either; but it maybe beyond her control for any number of reasons medical or psychological. It has a terrible effect on the person who wants to share their passions with their partner but it is not reciprocated. But the choice is stark if a person is not happy then they can either leave to find that relationship elsewhere with someone else (if a MC cannot help), or they can continue with the relationship for whatever reason they choose to put up with a lack of sex (again if an MC cannot help).

 

 

 

 

 

It is disturbing in this day and age that there are people in this world who still think it is ok to have control or right of access to another person. I will not go into specifics to name names as there are plenty of examples all around the world of people who hold these views: note I did not say ‘all’. No man or woman has a right over another person to make them do something that they don't want to do regardless of the relationship. Forcing someone to have sex because person thinks they have a right or that their partner has an obligation to them is simply wrong and evil. Force is not just a physical thing either; there is also emotional and psychological force/blackmail as well. If a person pressures someone into having sex by giving them an ultimatum such as ‘if you don’t have sex with me then I will leave’ the person may as well be physically holding them down - this too is evil and wrong on so many levels. We all have the right and freedom to make our own choices and to be who we are; and if that means that if a woman or a man does not want or does not desire sex then that is her/his right; and no person or passage in a book can take that away from them.

“husbands and wives should not withhold sex from each other"

There is a huge difference between someone withholding and someone not wanting.

“It does not say to force sex on your wife - but it does say that IF you are CHOOSING to be married, then you are CHOOSING to take responsibility for your marriage and keep it healthy by satisfying your spouse.”

 

Again there is huge difference between “CHOOSING” to withhold sex to someone not wanting sex. The person who does not desire sex may not have a choice. The reasons for a lack of libido have been discussed in other parts of this forum.

“Of course, this is within reason - other parts of the Bible describe how to treat your wife - with loving service -

so

clearly you're not going to do anything to hurt her.”

 

In other parts of the bible Plot offered his concubine up for gang rape to protect his own sorry self.

“But in SadDad's case, his wife has withheld sex from him - would you say this is right?”

Again there is a huge difference between withholding deliberately and a genuine lack of desire for sex. If SadDad’s wife is withholding deliberately to gain some kind of advantage or leverage over him then yes she is being selfish and he deserves to find someone better. But if she is genuinely not interested in sex or has no desire for sex then it is not a choice for her and she is not doing it deliberately to hurt him. He then has to make a choice and it is his choice alone whether to accept the situation or not. We can offer all kinds of advice but it boils down to what he wants for his relationship.

“Why get married if you are going to be selfish - marriage is about being selfless and loving the other as you love yourself.”

See previous comment.

“

So

- with respect to the Bible - it does not matter if you believe or not - what it says makes sense - it is designed to keep marriages in tact and provide for the mutual happiness and satisfaction of BOTH husband and wives.”

The Torah, or Bible, or Koran, or Ron L Hubbard’s books, or any other religious book did not invent love or respect for others. These are traits in humanity that evolved as they were the most successful way of ensuring the survival of the species.

“A note on Christians who think people should not have sexual desire: they need to read the Bible more closely - within marriage, sex is encouraged.”

According to Catholic doctrine and some other mainstream sects; sex is only for procreation and no other purpose, otherwise they would not ban contraception, frown on sex education, place guilt trips on anyone who would dare think of masturbation, let alone allow a woman control over her own body.

“And a note on Christians who think that men

rule

the household - they do not - they

lead

the household - and they are to lead by serving -

loving and serving their wives

- that is how you EARN respect and leadership.”

Funny, I always thought marriage to be partnership of equals not one leading the other.

“Anyway, Eyerish - you may want to take a closer look and do some research before you blast people for their beliefs and start calling people who believe inadequate.”

I said that people who use faith (and please note that I did not single out any particular faith in my original post) as a way of controlling others are inadequate.

 

Time to get flamed again.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Eyerish

[OpenBook]

It does not say to force sex on your wife - but it does say that IF you are CHOOSING to be married, then you are CHOOSING to take responsibility for your marriage and keep it healthy by satisfying your spouse. Of course, this is within reason - other parts of the Bible describe how to treat your wife - with loving service - so clearly you're not going to do anything to hurt her. The Biblical Picture of marriage provides for both husband and wife to be happy and have their mutual emotional and sexual needs met. It the same advice any good present day marriage counselor would give - except it was written over a thousand years ago.

 

This is the part that cracked me up. Gee that IS a long time ago... right around 1066 maybe??

 

And I would run screaming from any present-day marriage counselor that advised me that my body belongs to my H now, and therefore I OWE him. That's slavery, not a marriage.

 

You know, the Bible also talks about concubines (Abraham had concubines), and handling snakes in religious ceremonies (that's OK!), and even mentions witches a time or two (kings consulted them). So why don't most of us adhere to these standards anymore??

 

It's amazing the message got through at all... over 2000 years later :D ... as much as we focus on the details, and twist things around to justify our point of view.

 

I believe that the MESSAGE of marriage from the Bible is simply to take good care of each other... no matter what times we live in. Easier said than done, of course (in any age), and the WAY in which we take good care of each other has changed drastically... but the message is still the same.

[Mr. Lucky]

But if she is genuinely not interested in sex or has no desire for sex then it is not a choice for her and she is not doing it deliberately to hurt him. He then has to make a choice and it is his choice alone whether to accept the situation or not. We can offer all kinds of advice but it boils down to what he wants for his relationship.

No where in your long and well-thought out post is any mention of the responsibility that Saddad's wife has to try and address the problem. While I agree that a lack desire for sex may have taken away her "choice", any rational and compassionate human being would understand that, regardless of intention, her actions are hurtful and damaging to the marriage. And she can therefore at least "choose" to try and fix it.

 

Her fault is not her lack of participation in a sexual relationship. Her fault is in thinking that that's OK...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mz. Pixie]

Her fault is not her lack of participation in a sexual relationship. Her fault is in thinking that that's OK...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Totally agree. When a man marries a woman in his mind he's promising not to ever have sex with anyone else ever again. This is huge to many men. In his mind he is like whoa I'm never having sex with anyone else again- which is cool because my partner is going to meet all my sexual needs.

 

The problem comes when the other person doesn't stick to their end of the bargain. He goes into the marriage believing he'll have an enthusiastic sex partner for life but sometimes that doesn't happen. So, there he is, and he's promised to be faithful but she's refusing to see sex as a priority.

 

She doesn't "get" that rejection of him at a sexual level is like rejecting him in every way. To be honest, I didn't get this for years myself-especially in my first marriage. Many men take it extremely personal when they are rejected sexually. I've learned this in my second marriage- hearing my husband describe how he felt when his ex wife would reject him sexually.

 

The idea behind counseling is for her to see how rejecting him sexually or not being enthusiastic about it cuts him to the core of who he is. That will mean he has to open up to her his innermost self and let her know how being rejected makes him feel.

 

It also means that there will need to be a compromise at some point over their sex life. It's a negotiable item, IMO.

 

It's not right for her to believe that she has the right to just say "I'm not interested in sex- so therefore you're not getting any". Anymore than it would be right for him to say, "I've decided I'm not going to support you financially anymore" assuming he does- or domestically for that matter.

[Mr. Lucky]

The idea behind counseling is for her to see how rejecting him sexually or not being enthusiastic about it cuts him to the core of who he is. That will mean he has to open up to her his innermost self and let her know how being rejected makes him feel.

Exactly. That's why I hope that Saddad follows through with MC because it really addresses his frustration of feeling that his wife is oblivious to his pain. When the counselor says to him "How does that make you feel?", I'm assuming that, drawing on the last 23 years, he'll have a pretty direct and emotional response...

 

Mr. Lucky

[OpenBook]

With regards to Catholics: I wholeheartedly agree with you. I do not believe that God intended it the way some Popes and priests have made it to be - and that is why the Bible says "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband" and "Do not deprive each other" - what does that mean - if you're married, HAVE SEX for goodness sake! (can you tell I am Protestant?) Not that I have anything against Catholics - my best friend is of that faith - I go by the Bible only and not by a lineage of Popes.

 

No, that is YOUR INTERPRETATION of what it means. Nowhere does it explicitly say that either spouse has a responsibility to SEXUALLY FULFILL their spouse's needs. All it says is to "fulfill your marital duties" to each other; it doesn't tell us specifically what that entails. I think it was written that way on purpose. Each of us has to decide and negotiate with our spouses the best way HOW to "fulfill our marital duties, and not deprive each other" in EACH OF OUR OWN marriages. I strongly believe that the free will that God granted us applies to everything, including how we conduct ourselves within a marriage. And it's nobody else's call (including yours, Nick) how somebody else decides to do that.

[Brendan Ireland]

You need someone who is attentive and appreciative for everything about you inside and out. It's time to look elsewhere for some much needed sex and whatever else you can attain from another relationship. Men who have sex on a regular basis are healthier. Don't forgo your health and needs just because a woman refuses to take part in her wifely obligations. You are too young to settle for no sex. Get some enjoyment and excitement back into your life.

 

Just go out and get someone else

Edited January 18, 2008 by Brendan Ireland

[Eyerish]

Again I agree with bentnotbroken. Saddad does indeed appear to be a person of honour who has a great depth of feelings for his wife and if he chooses to leave and take time out or find someone else there are many people on this thread who would support his decision. It will be one of the toughest that he will make in his life knowing the pain that it will cause his wife and that is a guilt that he will have to shoulder. I know how it feels because I just had that conversation with my own wife on the weekend for pretty much the exact same reasons as Saddad - my heart goes out to both Saddad and his wife and I hope that some good comes out of it regardless of his decision.

[Mr. Lucky]

. I know how it feels because I just had that conversation with my own wife on the weekend for pretty much the exact same reasons as Saddad

Did you and your wife come to any agreement or decide on a plan of action ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[LILA BELL]

This Is Exactly What I Eman When I Say A Marriage Cannot Just Work Off Of Love.

 

Sex Is A Huge Part Of A Marriage Its One Of The Tools That Needs To Work In Order For A Marriage To Work.

 

Ppl Didnt Like It To Much When I Mentioned It In My Thread.

 

Once Again ...

 

People If You Are Not Satisfying Your H Or W Sexually They Will Go Else Where Not Even Love Will Stop Them From Cheating,you Cannot Neglect Your H Or W Sexual Needs And Expect Them To Be Faithful

[Eyerish]

Hi MrLucky,

At this point in time we are having a break from each other but not the family. It was my instigation and I feel lousy for putting my own unhappiness before my wife's happiness. We live in separate countries in the South East Asia region - I'm in Singapore because that's where I could find work while my wife lives in Brunei where she has a career (we are both Aussies). We had been living apart for about 15 months but it was not the physical distance or that there is a lack of love that separated us. It was almost exactly the same situation that Saddad finds himself in where there is no intimacy between us - more like best friends than lovers. Her view on a normal marriage is that sex is once or maybe twice a year event and even then it is more of get it over and done with rather than really desire it - not even on our wedding night 9 years ago. It is like she has a strong dislike of penises and the feeling of rejection of what is a fundamental part of being a male and male identity is not easy (despite being on the pill she preferred it if I wore a condom probably as a sub-conscience way of not having to touch it directly and I have now had the snip so no chance of accidents but it made no difference). I will still see them every 4 or 5 weeks as I love my kids and my wife dearly but their best interests are with their mother. We will play mum and dad in front of them as I have not ruled out getting back together.

 

FYI; there was no other woman involved and I have been faithful to her throughout the 18 years we were together. Maybe I will find someone who will desire me sexually; maybe I won't, I don't know but it is extremely hard to have any self esteem when the person who genuinely loves you with all her heart does not desire you.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Eyerish

[Brendan Ireland]

I know where you are all coming from but the fact of the matter is sex is a basic human need. But if you are in one of those sexless marriages - and boy there seems to be a lot of them around these days - and you simply don't want the hassle of a separation - and lets face it separation is not easy from a practical point of view - Any man or woman should not allow themselves be her dragged down to a joyless way of living by a partner who won't share the most basic human function and personally I think life without sex is joyless. If you go for the F buddy option and she finds out and challenges you on it – be brutally honest and tell her if she wants to live as a frigid sexless human being that’s her choice, its not yours, you don’t want to leave her, you still love her, and if she wants to save the marriage and resurrect your love life, then she knows which bed you sleep in each night. Tell her she’s welcome to come back in but equally tell her, if she doesn’t want to – you will just get it elsewhere. It might wake her up to what she is losing out on! And if she wants to leave, tell her she knows where the door is. And if she does leave my friend stick with the FB and don’t complicate life with a second wife, its just not worth it.

[Mustang Sally]

I know where you are all coming from but the fact of the matter is sex is a basic human need.

Can you elaborate on this, with scientific examples and evidence, please?

 

I am not aware of imminent death occuring to individuals who are celibate.

 

Now...hypoxia, or dehydration, or starvation, on the other hand......

[Cobra_X30]

Can you elaborate on this, with scientific examples and evidence, please?

 

I am not aware of imminent death occuring to individuals who are celibate.

 

Now...hypoxia, or dehydration, or starvation, on the other hand......

 

LOL... for a guy that just implied sex is requirement for life... your throwing some big words at him!

[JosieMcCoy]

LOL... for a guy that just implied sex is requirement for life... your throwing some big words at him!

 

i don't understand your point here! You think those words are big? LOL!

 

Cheers!

[JosieMcCoy]

Can you elaborate on this, with scientific examples and evidence, please?

 

I am not aware of imminent death occuring to individuals who are celibate.

 

Now...hypoxia, or dehydration, or starvation, on the other hand......

 

You know, I was thinking about this! Yes, maybe sex is not a need! In fact, there are many stories of 40 year old virgins, etc.

 

So I was thinking about what it would be like as a castaway on an island, all alone!

 

Is human contact a basic human need? Or order? Or purpose?

Obviously no one is going to die without any of the above, but maybe it helps you keep your sanity?

I know I feel better after having sex! Like my mind is clear! But maybe that is just me!

 

Maybe this is where he is coming from?

 

Just a thought!!!

 

Cheers!

[Brendan Ireland]

Can you elaborate on this, with scientific examples and evidence, please?

 

I am not aware of imminent death occuring to individuals who are celibate.

 

Now...hypoxia, or dehydration, or starvation, on the other hand......

 

Oh I see you want to be drawn into some philosophical argument about whether sex is a a necessary human function - well unless you were the result of IVF I take it the sexual act created you. Not that sex is totally about creation but in order for us to survive I would state it is a scientific fact that sex is a necessary part of human life, and without it we will all ultimately die. True those who remain celibate will not die as result of not having sex, but if the rest of the world stops having sex you will as an individual ultimately die, though not imminently as the lack of sex will in a celibate world will eradicate the necessary new members of society we all need to rely on to survive - ie the new generations who will support us in our old age, so there you go I have elaborated on the point you requested me to do so, it is my belief that sex is a necessary part of human survival. Regarding it being a necessary part of life. I for one have always felt it is necessary not because of the need to procreate but basically because I enjoy a good shag.

[Mustang Sally]

Oh I see you want to be drawn into some philosophical argument about whether sex is a a necessary human function - well unless you were the result of IVF I take it the sexual act created you. Not that sex is totally about creation but in order for us to survive I would state it is a scientific fact that sex is a necessary part of human life, and without it we will all ultimately die. True those who remain celibate will not die as result of not having sex, but if the rest of the world stops having sex you will as an individual ultimately die, though not imminently as the lack of sex will in a celibate world will eradicate the necessary new members of society we all need to rely on to survive - ie the new generations who will support us in our old age, so there you go I have elaborated on the point you requested me to do so, it is my belief that sex is a necessary part of human survival. Regarding it being a necessary part of life. I for one have always felt it is necessary not because of the need to procreate but basically because I enjoy a good shag.

Ok, dear.

 

Let's not insult each other.

 

Obviously you were making a point with your earlier statement.

 

I was doing the same, in return.

 

I just think it's necessary to keep things in perspective, in discussions such as this - knowing that there are (at least) two sides to all of these stories.

 

I always find it humorous when people start telling a married person that being denied sex justifies going outside of marriage to get what one needs (and apparently deserves). That's all.

 

Peace.

 

***Now back to our regularly scheduled programming***