Finally found the courage to try again. Should I?

[horizon]

Just over a year ago, I broke up with my girlfriend who was emotionally and verbally abusive. Other than the episodes of abuse, there was alot of love and alot of passion. I broke up with her because it started to get out of hand and the abuse was occuring several times a day and I couldnt take it anymore.

After we broke up, she met up with me several weeks later pretending nothing had happened. I told her that it was definitely over. At that time, my self esteem and self worth had hit rock bottom. I needed to get out to find my footing again. I told her that we would see how things are in 6 months. She respected that and didnt contact me for six months.

During that time, I spent alot of time with friends and with myself trying to recover, but I never really stopped thinking of her. However, I had to stop myself all the time to try and not think of her. I got involved with another girl but it didnt work out so well because I wasnt really "there" in the relationship. We got along well otherwise, in fact, extremely well. She was mature, sensible, patient and gentle. After many attempts at trying to connect emotionally with me, she gave up. I was obviously still "stuck" on my ex. I feel really bad because she is a wonderful girl. But I think it was very bad timing and she does not deserve that at all. She broke up with me, but we remain good friends.

Even during the time when I was with the new girl, my ex called me from time to time and would ask me if I wanted to work things out. I would tell her I was not ready to talk about it and that I would call soon. I kept running away from it. I wasnt emotionally ready. I was still afraid that she might be the same even though her friends said that she had changed alot - for the better. Her best friend (who is also a close friend of mine) tells me that me ex feels incredibly guilty for having treated me badly and wants a chance to work things out.

Even after the new girl broke up with me, she still continued to call me from time to time asking me if I wanted to work things out. I didnt feel ready and still felt afraid so I kept on buying time.

A year passed since I had broken up with my ex (The first girl) and I found myself thinking about her more. I realise now that I have found my footing and recovered my self esteem, I could face the emotions that came when I thought abou her. I realise that I really do miss her and if she really has changed we could work things out and I have the courage to try again. She has been so patient, waiting for me and I have tested that patience, but I did need that time to recover.

She called me a few days ago, crying on the phone saying that she cant do it anymore, she cant wait for me anymore, she wants to know if I want to move on. She wants me to tell her so she can move on. I told her I couldnt. I told her that I still love her very much and that I wanted to work things out, but we needed to talk about all the problems we had and face them. She carried on crying and I couldnt calm her down no matter what I said. She said that if I did love her, I wouldnt have made her wait like that. I tried explaining to her that its not what she thinks. Considering how abusive the relationship became in the past, I needed that time apart to heal. I told her I couldnt talk about it on the phone and asked to meet her the next day. She was upset and hung up. I tried calling back but she didnt answer. So I let her be, so she could cool down.

I called her and sent her messages the next day to meet up, but she didnt answer.

So now, it looks like I'm trying to get her back! Its driving me nuts!

Throughout the year we were apart, I realised several things.

When she first dated me for the first 2 years, I was poor as a church mouse. She stuck with me. She was always loyal. She became gradually abusive for 2 reasons. Firstly, her family is out of whack and secondly I realise that I was an enabler. I allowed her to become that way. I'm stronger now, I can set boundaries better and be consistent about it. She is better now. She is 1000% more patient than before considering all the waiting she has done.

I got a strong gut feeling that if we do get back together, we could make it work if we worked hard on it. After all, we love each other so much (more than any relationship I had), we just had to learn healthier ways to relate.

 

Please help,

What should I do?

[s_n_d]

If you really want to be with her, go get her before its too late.

It seems like shes tired of waiting for you but it also seems like she still loves you.

Its all up to you.

But if you get back together with her, let her know that you wont tolerate any more emotional or verbal abuse.

[horizon]

Thanks s_n_d for the quick reply.

I realise that her patience is running out. I'm going to write her a letter to let her know how I feel. There were other reasons why I was afraid as well. My therapist suspects she is a borderline personality, which is usually difficult or impossible to change. All my friends and family are against us getting back together. Now, I dont really care. I believe in the human spirit and I believe people can achieve all sorts of things if they put their heart to it. I know there is a possibility it would go back to the way it was, but I want to know that I had tried. I dont want to live with the doubt constantly at the back of my mind. Some people believe that re-entering what used to be an abusive relationship is a recipe for disaster. But conventional wisdom is not always right. If I fall flat on my face, at least its on my own terms rather than staying on the safe side by listening to other people. I might be foolish.

Anyone has any opinions about this or similar experiences?

[s_n_d]

I think i would be better if you CALLED her versus sending a letter.

Or even meeting with her and talking about it..

[horizon]

Thanks s_n_d,

I will call her. I think youre right. The reason why I wanted to write the letter is because I didnt want us to get into an argument. But if we cant talk about it, then, its a bad start isnt it? So I guess I would have to start there.

 

I will update after I've had a chance to talk to her. Thanks so much. I feel much better just talking about it.

[Rowen]

Sounds a bit similar to my situation with my ex. Except it's only bee 4 months since the break.

 

I say go for it.. The waiting for my ex is painful becuase I'm almost certain she has some interest again. but she dissapears and it's frustrating. Go for it.. or she will be gone!

[horizon]

Thanks Rowen, All this encouragement is great. Its 4:50 am where I am and I'm thinking of trying to talk to her later this morning or afternoon. In some ways I feel like an idiot for not trying earlier, but then again, I do realise that I really needed the time. I should have communicated that more clearly to her. Also, all the doomsday warnings I've been getting from people around me has not helped. I guess I was not listening to my inner voice. My therapist who's primary responsibility is my emotional well being has seen my demise from healthy to decrepit throughout the relationship, so she has been advising me to excercise extreme caution all this while. I've treated the situation in the past year with extreme caution and tried to keep my distance. It created a gigantic divide between my rational thoughts and emotions. However, it has given me the detachment I needed to regain my self worth amongst other things. Having worked so hard to recover, I guarded it with my life, maybe too strongly.

I guess we need to allow ourselves to be vulnerable in order to love again. Ive realised that lately.

I just need to get her to understand that without putting blame squarely on her. We were both responsible for the disfunctional dynamic I think.

 

My question is, how much should we listen to our head and how much should we listen to our hearts?

[horizon]

by the way Rowen, I can relate to your frustration. The whole disappearing act thing. I usually end up driving myself nuts trying to mind read and create scenarios in my head and the like. Please share your situation, maybe we may need similar solutions.

[horizon]

My therapist (me as well) suspects strongly that my ex has Borderline Personality Disorder. Its one of the things that had me very cautious with every one of her attempts to reconcile. Its nature is often times described as "I hate you...dont leave me".

Crazy making stuff. She was never diagnosed, but she has alot of the symptoms. Basically, this is how it had played out before:

She calls me and tells me she wants to talk and work things out. I tell her (gently) that I couldnt at the time because I had alot of things to work out with myself. I tell her I need more time and that I promise to call her when I feel I am ready. (Remember that I was the one who was verbally and emotionally abused). She calls again in maybe a month. Same thing happens, I still feel afraid to deal with it and need to work on alot of my own issues. She calls again in a month and I agree to meet, because I feel more ready to take on the possibility of getting back together. Also I want to see how she's doing and I have a glimmer of hope that she has improved somewhat. So we meet up, and she completely ignores me. I try to make conversation and I get one word answers. She spends the rest of the time messaging people on her phone. So I send her home and I loose hope. Then she calls again a few weeks later teary and wanting to work things out. I ask about why she refused to talk to me the last time we met, she said, "When I wanted to talk you didnt, what makes you think I want to talk when you do?". So I freak out again, realising the emotional abuse hasnt stopped and take more time, hoping either she would change or I would learn to forget her.

Well, lately, it has improved though. Except for not answering my calls after she hung up the last time. I dont know, I'm just tired of waiting for signs.

I'm going to throw caution into the wind and sink or swim. If it sinks, I know I tried.

Honestly, its quite scary. But the prospect of it just possibly working out is nagging me all the time. BPD's dont handle rejection or abandonment well at all. Being at the loosing end of a breakup and wanting to get back together is not exactly an easy situation for her to be in. Actually, I excpected worse behaviour. Maybe she is really trying hard, its not easy I know.

[s_n_d]

Thanks s_n_d,

I will call her. I think youre right. The reason why I wanted to write the letter is because I didnt want us to get into an argument. But if we cant talk about it, then, its a bad start isnt it? So I guess I would have to start there.

 

I will update after I've had a chance to talk to her. Thanks so much. I feel much better just talking about it.

 

No problem. Anytime, horizon.

We' re all here for you.

[CalamitousJane]

Horizon, my ex has some really tough personality traits too. When things were at their worst between us I was pretty convinced he was some nasty Narcissist-Antisocial-Paranoid-Borderline combination. Relationship stress brought out the worst in him, and my reaction, while possibly not clinically disordered, was certainly not always loving. I know he's a good, well meaning person, but sometimes it was very hard for me to see this.

 

I found one resource that has changed everything about the way we communicate. Check out gregbaer dot com. Listening to his cds helped me stay calm and listen when things got tough. Just keeping my voice gentle at all times immediately stopped the fights.

 

It's been a couple months now, and he's started consistently being the same way back to me, which is truly a miracle.

[horizon]

Thanks CalamitousJane, I will definitely check that out.

[horizon]

She finally sent me a message telling me to call her if I'm free to talk. So I did. First I apologised to her for being a little short with her the last time we spoke. She replied "Apologise for what?". Then she said that the other night that she called, she was feeling down and missed me and was too emotional. Then I told her that I was thinking of trying again. I wanted to try and see if we can work things out. Then she asked me why now? why not earlier? I told her I needed that time to heal from how bad the relationship had gone in the past. I told her that my self esteem was non existent and I was depressed and a total wreck. Then she accused me of being selfish for taking the time that I needed and not considering her feelings. She didnt sound at all remorseful for how horribly she treated me (trust me it was pretty bad. Everything I did was wrong and she called me names all day long and picked on me constatly). She completely didnt get it. I would have thought that anyone who treated somebody that badly would realise that they would need to get away to get better. She was very argumentative and turned everything I said against me. She hadnt changed! The moment I showed my soft side and let her know that I was considering trying again, she felt she had power and was willing to use it. By then I just wanted to end the conversation. I was feeling that flight or fight insticts, my self protection instincts which my therapist and I have worked all year on. But I told myself to press on to a logical amicable outcome.

I told her I didnt want to get into an argument. I said that I still had feelings for her and that I wanted to see if we can make things work. ( Because of her attitude, I was starting to have doubts). Instead of asking for her back, I said, lets try baby steps. Lets meet up from time to time and see how that goes. Lets see if we can get along (and this time I'm setting boundaries). So I told her maybe we could meet for dinner sometime this week. She said "Maybe, we'll see". So we said goodbye and hung up.

 

After that phonecall, I felt strange. The reason why I wanted to give it another try was because of the good times weve had early on in the relationship. There was always going to be this doubt at the back of my mind about it maybe working out. If I didnt give it a try, I will never know and will never be able to allow myself to really love again. So I"m going to use this as a way to "prove me wrong" so to speak, if it self destructs. If it works out, it will be a surprise. Right now, from how she was on the phone, her manipulative nature is still strong and I dont know if that will work. We'll see.

[CalamitousJane]

Her response sounds very familiar.

 

It helps when you understand how much fear is behind the manipulation. Anything that feels like blame is terrifying to her, and she'll lash out viciously like a cornered animal.

 

It's an instinct for her to make you her enemy under those circumstances. The key is to listen gently, and focus on anything but blame. It's such a huge temptation to argue when someone's being selfish, irrational and blaming. If you can see the very frightened child inside her when she is like that, it can help you treat her gently and not be so hurt by the interaction.

 

It sounds like you did great with it.

[horizon]

Hi CalamitousJane,

Thanks for the response. I'm feeling scared again. Afraid of her manipulations and power struggles. I feel like writing a long letter explaining to her how her behaviour screwed things up in the past and how it will screw things up again. In fact I was thinking to myself just moments ago "What have I done? How am I going to solve this one?". You see, I had to work very hard and had to be very tough with myself when I decided to call it quits. There were many tears and painful moments. After all that, I want to know for sure if its a lost cause. So here I am, opening the doors again to possible abuse. Well it already started during that phonecall. I already felt arm-twisted. I still love her. So how do you tell someone with a personality disorder like that that their behaviour is destructive without them retaliating? How do I get her to go to therapy when she wouldnt even acknowledge the problem? I realise now that I have spoken to her about it, its going to be really tough. I dont know if I can handle it.

[kalena9488]

like you've already gotten you're answer. She hasn't changed and probably will not. You are probably better off with her out of your life. Don't let her back in now and ruin everything you've accomplished. She probably just doesn't want anyone else to have you and she just wants to know that she can still have you if she wants.

 

Good luck to you!

[horizon]

kalena9488, you may be right. I got into the whole "trying again" thing because I had hopes and I really wanted them to be true. Its hard when you love someone who is dysfunctional. I probably should be honest with her and tell her how I felt from our conversation on the phone. Tell her that I felt that she was still trying to manipulate me and that she scared me off a little. I dont know where to go from here. A part of me says, go out on a couple of dates, see how it goes, the other part of me says to run for my life and save myself. Sigh.

[The_411]

She has borderline personality disorder. Get away while you can in the meantime I suggest you get the book Stop Walking on Eggshells and read stories at www.bpdcentral.com to get a better understanding of Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

It can be treated but it is up to your ex to get the treatment and it takes a good two solid years of intense treatment for her to improve to a reasonable level. That's assuming she doesn't quit therapy or quit her meds which most people with BPD tend to do.

 

If you rally love her then stay away. She's sucking you in for her needs then tossing you when she latches on to someone else.

 

Your her back-up plan.

 

I know because my ex has BPD and it was a devastating experience to deal with.

[horizon]

hi everyone, sorry for the late update. i met up with her about 5 days ago. I picked her up from work and we headed to a restaurant for dinner. From the moment i picked her up till the restaurant, she didnt smile at all, and never gave anything but one word answers to all my efforts at conversation. I already knew it was going to be a bad evening. At the restaurant, the same behaviour. We didnt click anymore. Either that or she's trying her old manipulation tricks again. the cold shoulder. This is when i realised i was not affected by it anymore. I just wanted to get out of there and go home to read a book or something. After dinner, i sent her home. At her doorstep she asked me to return all her gifts from before. woe! that crossed the line. I heard of people giving back gifts, not taking back. It was one of her manipulations again. She wanted me to grovel. I said no. Those were special times. She then went on to ask what our status was. i said to start as friends. she went berserk and said that after a one year plus break, i was breaking up with her! wait hold on. i thought i broke up with her a year ago? the 4 times we met before this, spread out over 6 months, she asked what we were, i said i couldnt handle relationships, so we should try to be friends. wasnt that clear enough? so she slammed the door and i went home. from that day onwards, she would send about 10 messages to my phone every night. They were my messages from 3 years ago, every one of them. Now every day, i wait for the messages and archive them in case i need proof of her mad behaviour. When i call to talk it out, no answer. If i SMS, no reply. its nuts!

[sedgwick]

It is ABSOLUTELY possible to recover from borderline personality disorder! I'm not going to go into great detail, but for many years I was anorexic and self-harming, and when I was finally diagnosed as borderline, I was terrified because all I'd ever heard was that it was impossible to treat.

 

I had breakups land me in the hospital for suicide attempts in the past. This one hasn't, even though I've never been in love like this. Because it *is* possible to recover!

 

The treatment I went through is called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, or DBT. I was in it for a year and a half, three times a week (not "a good solid two years." One stays in DBT for anywhere from 6 to 18 months.) This was three years ago, and I haven't been in the hospital or engaged in any kind of eating disorder behavior since. None whatsoever. I don't feel 100% "cured," but I now have a life worth living, and I have coping skills I never learned as a child. The four modules of DBT are emotion regulation, distress tolerance, interpersonal relationships, and core mindfulness. It's based on Buddhist teachings. It truly is the best thing I ever did for myself (other than dancing.) I've learned how to have stable relationships with other people. I am literally a different person.

 

If there's a DBT program near you, and your ex is amenable, I recommend the treatment wholeheartedly. It just breaks my heart when people say "get away while you can." Borderlines behave the way they do because the most terrifying thing in the world to them is being abandoned. Most of their behavior stems from fear.

 

Also, please be careful about listening to what anyone on the internet, who's not a psychologist and has never met her, has to say. People like to pathologize when they don't understand someone else's behavior. The only way to know for sure if she's borderline is if she's diagnosed by a qualified therapist.

Edited January 20, 2008 by sedgwick

[horizon]

sedgwick, thanks for your reply. I'm glad to hear from someone who is a recovering borderline. I totally see your point. I also understand where others are coming from. During my 3 years in the relationship, i have given up everything for it. I lost heaps. Time, money (almost went bankrupt) lost my self esteem, self respect and a whole lot of things. After digging around & talking to my therapist uncountable times, i came to the conclusion she is bpd. never diagnosed. any attemp no matter how gentle, to get her to see a therapist was met with defensive retaliation. put simply, if i didnt comply to her, she would do a whole myriad of things to torture me. I know its not her fault, her parents are f*!'ed up. She is a victim. I was loosing a grip on my life, i had to leave.

So how do you get someone you care about, who has a distorted world view to go see a therapist? she thinks every one else is wrong and she is right. This is a person who at their best is a loving sweet & caring person, but is more often a scary time bomb.

Any advice?

[sedgwick]

Unfortunately, if she doesn't see the benefit in going to therapy, you can't make her. Plus, coming from you, asking her to do so might seem like an insult. Do you have any mutual friends who can suggest it to her?

 

In my case, I was so miserable with my life that I was willing to do just about anything to make things better. I didn't want to be stuck in an eating disorder for the rest of my life just because it was my only way of feeling any control. It's no way to live. You feel like sh*t all the time, both physically and mentally. But if she hasn't reached the point where she's tired of that, she's not going to want to get better.

 

I doubt she honestly thinks everyone else is wrong and she's right. I often behaved like that's how I felt, but really it was just fear talking. If I admitted I was wrong, I would have to admit I was sick. So it was much easier to make things everyone else's fault.

 

All that said, I'm about to go on a homicidal rampage if my neighbor doesn't do something about her constantly-barking dog. My next avatar on LS will be my mug shot.

[The_411]

Thanks for your post.

 

I was a bit quick to label. The issue is more that no one can help someone else they have to want to get help.

 

I didn't abandon my ex she just made it impossible for me to stay. (she was having an affair with a married man) I tried to reconcile and she just kept on doing what she was doing.

 

When I set boundaries i.e not paying rent for the place we were living in (I wasn't living there for over a month) she painted me black.

 

I, myself, have been in DBT/CBt therapy to deal with the fallout of the relationship. It's been the hardest thing I've ever dealth with worse than the death of loved ones. I still love her but I know that until she gets help she will continue her destructive behavior.

 

I should have said I suspect your ex has BPD and I should have suggested he read up on it to understand what is transpiring. I was too quick to assign judgement based on personal expereicne so for that I apologize as I know that you've been through a lot, Sedgewick.

[Rowen]

It is ABSOLUTELY possible to recover from borderline personality disorder! I'm not going to go into great detail, but for many years I was anorexic and self-harming, and when I was finally diagnosed as borderline, I was terrified because all I'd ever heard was that it was impossible to treat.

 

I had breakups land me in the hospital for suicide attempts in the past. This one hasn't, even though I've never been in love like this. Because it *is* possible to recover!

 

The treatment I went through is called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, or DBT. I was in it for a year and a half, three times a week (not "a good solid two years." One stays in DBT for anywhere from 6 to 18 months.) This was three years ago, and I haven't been in the hospital or engaged in any kind of eating disorder behavior since. None whatsoever. I don't feel 100% "cured," but I now have a life worth living, and I have coping skills I never learned as a child. The four modules of DBT are emotion regulation, distress tolerance, interpersonal relationships, and core mindfulness. It's based on Buddhist teachings. It truly is the best thing I ever did for myself (other than dancing.) I've learned how to have stable relationships with other people. I am literally a different person.

 

If there's a DBT program near you, and your ex is amenable, I recommend the treatment wholeheartedly. It just breaks my heart when people say "get away while you can." Borderlines behave the way they do because the most terrifying thing in the world to them is being abandoned. Most of their behavior stems from fear.

 

Also, please be careful about listening to what anyone on the internet, who's not a psychologist and has never met her, has to say. People like to pathologize when they don't understand someone else's behavior. The only way to know for sure if she's borderline is if she's diagnosed by a qualified therapist.

 

THat is a really interesting post to read for me.

 

My ex had gone into treatment for her annorexia. She dropped out though, she couldnt handle it. Now shes saying once she graduates (gets her high school done this next month) shes going to address that. She definately has borderline personality disorder. She goes on meds etc etc. I have to take everything she says or does with a grain of salt.. even now, as she has been seemingly coming on to me for a month.

 

Many people would tell me to run.. run away.... but if in a relationship with this girl, I would stand by her and be there for her. ANd i hope she's starting to realize this.

 

She has also been self harming, and is scared of abandonment. She had gone through guys like a paper shredder until she met me.. unforuntately , she ran at the first sign of trouble.