Owl Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Its not a matter of staying or going... ...its a matter of not accepting the guilt and responsibility of their actions. They don't want to be the "bad one"...in their own minds most of all. So they have to justify leaving...justify cheating...make it all seem like they were justified in their actions and behaviors. Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 It may not be much comfort now, but there is an upside to that. Once you start seeing them differently and realize it's who they really ARE and you don't like who they are, the healing process is quicker and more complete because you are not actually in love with who they are and never were. And, in my experience, losing respect for someone kills love pretty much quicker than anything. I couldnt agree more, and IF we have to end, this way is just OK with me... ALTHOUGH, I HATE that it has to be this way, cause I sure did love this girl Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Its not a matter of staying or going... ...its a matter of not accepting the guilt and responsibility of their actions. They don't want to be the "bad one"...in their own minds most of all. So they have to justify leaving...justify cheating...make it all seem like they were justified in their actions and behaviors. I can't figure her out with this topic.. I mean, there H is, questioning, "have you talked to him? answer: NO" BUT truth is YES and WILL be on the phone bill.. 100 times it will be... More questioning, have you seen him? NO Statements like: "I know he is there waiting for you, we ALL know this.. You are only here because of the children, NOT because you love me, you love OM.. OM knows this too Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Actually Stamp...you'll REALLY start healing the most when you've finally made the decision/realized that it truly IS over. Your posts make it sound as though you're losing hope, but still clinging to some shards of it. When you give that hope up...when you move on, REGARDLESS of whatever it is she's doing...THEN you'll really start to feel better. Its letting go of that last bit of "and IF we have to end" that's holding you back now. Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Actually Stamp...you'll REALLY start healing the most when you've finally made the decision/realized that it truly IS over. Your posts make it sound as though you're losing hope, but still clinging to some shards of it. When you give that hope up...when you move on, REGARDLESS of whatever it is she's doing...THEN you'll really start to feel better. Its letting go of that last bit of "and IF we have to end" that's holding you back now. That's true, I won't deny it.. I am also holding on to the "romantic" in me, LOVE WILL PREVAIL.. But it too is waning, and it will disappear.. and I'll be OK... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 No, NC has not stuck, which I know is a huge mistake.. I have written a short letter that is going to say that: Dear MW, I have to move on, WITHOUT YOU. You have helped make me the man i am today, but I am losing myself. I am losing "who" I am amd "who" I want to be. This relationship with YOU is not good for ME anymore. It has become unhealthy for me, for my family, for my career. My family needs me to be a good DAD, and when their dad is lost, so are they. I am a beautiful man, so why should I feel so UGLY. I have become a prisoner in my own life, so I am setting myself free. I am sorry for you, and hope that things work out for you however they may, they just wont be with me... That's a heartfelt and honest letter, I hope you do send it. She needs to see the pain she's causing you by letting you believe there is going to be an "US". I feel sad for the pain you're in, hopefully by sending it to her, part of you will feel relieved, so something can change and be finalized either way. Not knowing (still) what is going to happen must be driving you insane. I just can't figure it out. What does she expect to happen when/if he figures out that there is still daily contact, and he flips his freaking lid and says, 'GET OUT!" He has done it before, but this next time will be the last time.. Where is she gonna land?? Won't be here. It is really sad to me that she can't find the strenght to do ANYTHING on her own.. And quite frankly, I am losing respect by the bucket full every moment or 2... She isn't thinking clearly at all, she's messed up and I do hope she finds another therapist to help her sort out her life. Maybe she needs to really hit rockbottom before she changes. The bottomline is, she actually may end up alone ... That honestly may not be a bad thing as it will force her to DO whatever is necessary to better herself and find herself again. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 OK...think about this. Most WS's want to convince themselves that they're "in the right" for doing what they're doing...right? So part of the normal "script" that WS's follow is to really treat their BS like crap. They deliberately provoke confrontations and fights (sometimes by "flaunting" the affair in the BS's face)...in the hope and intent of drawing out the BS into a huge blowout fight. So that the BS looks to them (and even potentially others) to be the REAL cause of the problem. It allows them to say "SEE WHY I CHEATED ON HIM?!?!?! HE'S SO HORRIBLE TO ME I WAS RIGHT FOR WHAT I DID BY GOING OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE!". Its mental gymnastics to justify to themselves that they're doing the right thing by cheating...they were right all along for cheating, given how the BS is treating them now. And they'll try to use this as an excuse to continue. "Well, if you're just going to scream and yell at me, I'm not going to stay here...I'm going to OM's! At least HE treats me nice and doesn't yell at me!". Its not even deliberate. They don't sit and THINK about it...its just another way that they subconsciously try to set the stage to justify what they're doing. Just like they mentally re-write the history of their marriage, making the BS out to be some horrible, controlling monster the whole time. Does that make anymore sense? This was an interesting post, Owl. I wonder if you think this way about me. While it does describe my sitch pretty closely, I won't admit to saying my H was that way all along; however, I could see clues and traits that I feared would manifest themselves in my H which proved to happen. While my H was controlling the whole time, the monster didn't really come out until later. I think that's why I held on for so long. There was some sweetness in his youth that made all the other crap livable. But the sweetness disappeared and then it became intolerable. Stamp, I hope you're doing well. Go to Palm Springs. It's in season so you'll enjoy the weather. There will be lots of girls there, too;) Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 It's ok, I found myself liking stamp too. We'll both burn in hell for it I guess. Reboot it's good to see you back. Missed ya:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Its not a matter of staying or going... ...its a matter of not accepting the guilt and responsibility of their actions. They don't want to be the "bad one"...in their own minds most of all. So they have to justify leaving...justify cheating...make it all seem like they were justified in their actions and behaviors. wow, i think your right on that, my mm always talks about his guilt. good view point, cause that is one thing i noticed, not taking respnsibity, they have to blame someone.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 wow, i think your right on that, my mm always talks about his guilt. good view point, cause that is one thing i noticed, not taking respnsibity, they have to blame someone.... I understand this point, to a degree.. In this case it is SO freaking blatant it's ridiculous.. And NOW, it seems that "my hopes" are waiting for that moment of "discovery" to happen, WHICH SUCKS, because now here comes the "resentment boat" right to my dock.... Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 This was an interesting post, Owl. I wonder if you think this way about me. WF, in all honesty, I think that ALL wayward spouses do it to some degree or another. Now...I'm NOT saying that all marriages are rosy before the affair hits. Not at all...your situation may well have been intolerable before all this started. But you have to admit...since you started your affair, you've "given up" on the marriage. You no longer care about it...you no longer even TRY to work through things. Again, that's not a blame thing. It just is what it is. Along those lines, I'd be willing to be that you look back on your marriage now and see it in a FAR more negative light than you did before the marriage. Your perception of the marriage is different now...its called "re-writing marital history". My wife did it, and its a VERY common occurrence for waywards. I've posted about that re-writing history before. You might do a search and look it up. Again, don't think I'm judging you, or calling you out or anything. Not at all. I'm just responding to your question. Now...was your marriage in bad straights to begin with? Very possibly. Is your situation recoverable? Don't know...not all are. But I CAN say that your affair doesn't HELP the situation at all. It changes your mindset and attitude to a point where you don't put forth any of the effort that you used to in the marriage. Everyone wants to view themselves as doing the right thing. And everyone will go to outstanding mental gymnastics to justify things that they're doing wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Stamp, here's my reply to you from the thread over on the infidelity board. I didn't want to TJ that thread any longer. Response: Personally, I don't get why you're still waiting for her. You do realize that she's got a pair of legs, right? She can walk out of that house and into yours anytime she chooses too. That's clearly NOT what she's choosing to do. Instead, she's choosing to string BOTH OF YOU on. And its going to go on and on for as long as she can possibly make it last. And its going to last as long as both you and H are playing along with it. I know I've advised that YOU be the one to 'walk away' in the past repeatedly. I'll grant that in a lot of ways its because I don't believe in cheating. I don't condone it, and I don't support the OP "winning" most of the time. But I'd also tell you that I think its in your personal best interests to walk away here outside of how I feel. Because you're fighting against the weight of her entire marriage...against the possibly loss of her family/friends/etc... You're fighting against all the years of good history that her H has with her, and you're fighting against YOURSELF. You know now that even if you were to "win her" after all of this...you've now seen her more clearly than ever. Do you REALLY want to "win" like this? What future are you seeing NOW...after all that's gone on? Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Stamp, here's my reply to you from the thread over on the infidelity board. I didn't want to TJ that thread any longer. Response: Personally, I don't get why you're still waiting for her. You do realize that she's got a pair of legs, right? She can walk out of that house and into yours anytime she chooses too. That's clearly NOT what she's choosing to do. Instead, she's choosing to string BOTH OF YOU on. And its going to go on and on for as long as she can possibly make it last. And its going to last as long as both you and H are playing along with it. I know I've advised that YOU be the one to 'walk away' in the past repeatedly. I'll grant that in a lot of ways its because I don't believe in cheating. I don't condone it, and I don't support the OP "winning" most of the time. But I'd also tell you that I think its in your personal best interests to walk away here outside of how I feel. Because you're fighting against the weight of her entire marriage...against the possibly loss of her family/friends/etc... You're fighting against all the years of good history that her H has with her, and you're fighting against YOURSELF. You know now that even if you were to "win her" after all of this...you've now seen her more clearly than ever. Do you REALLY want to "win" like this? What future are you seeing NOW...after all that's gone on? This is exactly the conclusion that I am slowly (sadly) coming to, and it will mean it's too late for me.. While I don't condone affairs either, that is where I have found myself. Somehow I believed that IF we started out and she kept walking with those 2 legs of hers, and she ended her marriage (exit affair) then I could "justify" being in this relationship.. BUT, the s*** hit the fan and now it is the textbook blueprint that I am reading so much about, and it sucks.. It sucks to think that your relationships is "different", when it all seems like a script.. AND THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR ME..... Link to post Share on other sites
Aoife Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 This is exactly the conclusion that I am slowly (sadly) coming to, and it will mean it's too late for me. What do you mean...too late for you??? Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 What do you mean...too late for you??? That means my heart would be closed and trust would be gone and some of my purpose shattered.. I could go on to what is important to me, but you get the picture.. Maybe I am wrong Link to post Share on other sites
Aoife Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 That means my heart would be closed and trust would be gone and some of my purpose shattered.. I could go on to what is important to me, but you get the picture.. Maybe I am wrong I think you maybe need time to recover stamp, and become strong again. I really don't believe it is ever too late!!! It is always possible to rebuild, no matter what. I hope so anyway. xx Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 That means my heart would be closed and trust would be gone and some of my purpose shattered.. I could go on to what is important to me, but you get the picture.. Maybe I am wrong Stamp, I don't know if you remember, but I posted about this a while back - this is the consequence I feared for you: that no matter how it ultimately turned out, you'd be faced with losing your ideal vision of her, and you'd suffer for it. But now I want to add something - all of that powerful love that you're capable of feeling, and that impulse to be a giving partner, are wonderful gifts that no one has given or taken away from you - they're just you. You may have defined your purpose in a way that centered around her, but I'd say your "purpose" is about being you. She didn't create that, she just gave you an opportunity to express it for a while. But it's always been there, and it always will be. Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Red Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Stamp, I don't know if you remember, but I posted about this a while back - this is the consequence I feared for you: that no matter how it ultimately turned out, you'd be faced with losing your ideal vision of her, and you'd suffer for it. But now I want to add something - all of that powerful love that you're capable of feeling, and that impulse to be a giving partner, are wonderful gifts that no one has given or taken away from you - they're just you. You may have defined your purpose in a way that centered around her, but I'd say your "purpose" is about being you. She didn't create that, she just gave you an opportunity to express it for a while. But it's always been there, and it always will be. I sooo wanted to tell him something like that yesterday. But, I was just too tired & couldn't get it typed out correctly. He isn't going to change what he is & some one who is available without a $hitload of baggage can come into his life & give him a fresh start. That is after your heart heals S. Daddy;) Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 Thanks for the very sweet words, ladies.... watch for my new thread, coming soon... Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 WF, in all honesty, I think that ALL wayward spouses do it to some degree or another. Now...I'm NOT saying that all marriages are rosy before the affair hits. Not at all...your situation may well have been intolerable before all this started. But you have to admit...since you started your affair, you've "given up" on the marriage. You no longer care about it...you no longer even TRY to work through things. Again, that's not a blame thing. It just is what it is. Along those lines, I'd be willing to be that you look back on your marriage now and see it in a FAR more negative light than you did before the marriage. Your perception of the marriage is different now...its called "re-writing marital history". My wife did it, and its a VERY common occurrence for waywards. I've posted about that re-writing history before. You might do a search and look it up. Again, don't think I'm judging you, or calling you out or anything. Not at all. I'm just responding to your question. Now...was your marriage in bad straights to begin with? Very possibly. Is your situation recoverable? Don't know...not all are. But I CAN say that your affair doesn't HELP the situation at all. It changes your mindset and attitude to a point where you don't put forth any of the effort that you used to in the marriage. Everyone wants to view themselves as doing the right thing. And everyone will go to outstanding mental gymnastics to justify things that they're doing wrong.No, it is not recoverable at all. I believed that way before the A, but knew it for sure after it began. I don't have to rewrite history. I do remember all the bad that led up to this point, but also remember the good. No, the A does not help, but H does not help either. It's just over. I'm sure everyone's M is different, but for me the A doesn't make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites
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