Mr. Lucky Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 What this poster understands... Men can't control what you fantasize about when you masturbate (nor do we want them to!), and they ask that women not try to control what they fantasize about when they masturbate even though it's visual on a screen or magazine rather than just in their heads. ...and this poster doesn't... But, I wouldn't be happy with him jerking off to porno all on his own. I would feel threatened, hurt and insecure. Likewise, my bf is a jealous individual who would feel threatened, hurt and insecure if I masturbated over images of other men. That's just us, and luckily we understand each other that way. ...is that men and women are different in many general aspects of their sexuality. It's not a question of right or wrong, but simply one of genetics and gender. We are wired by sex to respond to different things. Jess-Belle, what thoughts or images that your BF would jerk off to would you approve of ? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Good question, Mr. Lucky. Jersey and Jesse, what if your SO sometimes fantasizes about dominating women, even though he does not have any desire to act out? I know that I think about a lot of stuff that I would run screaming from in reality. Many women have rape fantasies but I would venture a guess that none of them want to actually be raped. Fantasy can be just playing around with ideas in your mind, not an expression of needs or desires. And I think that porn is just a visual expression of fantasies. Mostly male fantasies, but that's because men are still basically running the show. Maybe we should get upset about the fact that there has never been a woman president, or that most of the CEO's of multi-million dollar companies (including porn production companies) are men, if you want to get bothered about the inequities in society. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Marine Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 And I think that porn is just a visual expression of fantasies. Mostly male fantasies, but that's because men are still basically running the show. Maybe we should get upset about the fact that there has never been a woman president, or that most of the CEO's of multi-million dollar companies (including porn production companies) are men, if you want to get bothered about the inequities in society. A good deal of the money making porn sites these days are run by girls in their late teens early 20's who make people pay out the wazoo to see them in a variety of different photo shoots and videos. I'm sure there are no men above them. When you see something like Melissa Midwest.com and all the other hundreds of similar sites, you know women are a lot more in control than they were even 10 years ago... And who do they cater to? Men. Don't blame men for the problem, because opportunistic little whores are laughing their way to the bank too, and they're riding our penises to get there. Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 A good deal of the money making porn sites these days are run by girls in their late teens early 20's who make people pay out the wazoo to see them in a variety of different photo shoots and videos. I'm sure there are no men above them. When you see something like Melissa Midwest.com and all the other hundreds of similar sites, you know women are a lot more in control than they were even 10 years ago... And who do they cater to? Men. Don't blame men for the problem, because opportunistic little whores are laughing their way to the bank too, and they're riding our penises to get there. Fair enough, but these are small time operators. I'm sure that they can pay the bills, but I doubt these girls are buying million dollar vacation properties and jets with their earnings. I'm talking about places like vivid, where some serious coin is being generated. And if you really resent "opportunistic little whores" making money off your masturbation routine, then shut off the computer and use your own mind as a playground. Nobody is forcing you to fork over the cash. Why are you blaming them? At least they're only pimping themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Marine Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I don't fork over my cash to them, or I would be a hypocrite for saying what I did. When I watch porn, it's free porn. Sure, they may make money on the hits generated or some crap like that, but I don't click on their ads and I don't get subscriptions. In fact, most of the time, I just go to a forum where they're reposting the stuff. It's like stealing music, everyone does it anyway, so why not fap to it? And let's be perfectly honest here.. anyone who shells out any amount of money for a full porn movie these days is nuts. Not only can you find it FREE on the internet, but why shell out good cash for such horrid acting? Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Absolutely correct. Nobody has to pay for porn So why did you say that these "whores" "make people pay out the wazoo"? Your words. Nobody is making men (or women who go on-line for thrills) do anything. No need to blame anyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Marine Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Are you offended that I called them whores? Do you think I believe the men are any better, and not in fact, worse? Perhaps tart or trollop would be less offensive, but they're still whoring themselves for the cash of gullible and desperate men and women who don't know that there are alternatives. Simply because I have the common sense not to get out my credit card when I'm horny doesn't mean everyone is so blessed. How exactly would you like me to refer to the men that own these gigantic porn companies you mentioned? Personally, the fact that even I can't find a word that is suitably derogatory for them should say something. Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Very savvy, very wealthy, opportunistic pimps sums it up for me. And I don't necessarily think that any of those terms are derrogatory. They see a market and they service it. Same with the girls who go out on their own. Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 And aren't we getting a little off-topic? Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShortie Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Jersey and Jesse, what if your SO sometimes fantasizes about dominating women, even though he does not have any desire to act out? I don't have an issue with having fantasies. What I have an issue with is porn and what it repersents, how it depicts women, and a million other reasons. I infact like being dominated by my guy in bed. I however think there is a huge difference between letting him dominate me and letting any Joe off the street do it. And who do they cater to? Men. Don't blame men for the problem, because opportunistic little whores are laughing their way to the bank too, and they're riding our penises to get there. Latest I heard men were adults capable of being responsible for their own choices on how they acted. It's really inane to blame a girl in a porn getting paid for it, for a man looking at it. That toally negates any responsiblity a man has over his own actions. And as we all know, a grown adult man is completley resonsible for his own actions. How exactly would you like me to refer to the men that own these gigantic porn companies you mentioned? Personally, the fact that even I can't find a word that is suitably derogatory for them should say something. Actually, it is probably because there are more negative names for women out there and it is more accepting to call women names then men. Link to post Share on other sites
Tryn2betah Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) <EDIT> Im sorry this is so long =( I have been reading through these forums on every topic i could find regarding porn and masterbation... Ive spent a good 4 hours this morning doing only that. I can see both sides of why porn/masterbation is good or bad. Im not going to ask you if its good or bad as after all the reading ive been doing this morning ive come to the conclusion that its completely normal to be interested in these things without "cheating" etc. Heres some short history about me and my current love Me = 38 female with one male child (im trying to learn for myself as well as the health of my son who i know will depend on me in part so that he has healthy relationships) ~Marriage (12 years and with a child) that went bad over drugs and sex and cheating "for REAL" and plain old disrespect on his part and trying to control things on my part...many secrets many lies.....bad combination ~since divorce met up with a man who was not only sexually abusive but mentally abusive and horribly controlling and jealous of everything and anything... thank whatever higher power you all believe in that waste of space is gone (i left him 3 years ago with the help of my little brother and 2 of his friends but it still haunts me sometimes) ~grew up in a broken home where my fathers house was very very christian and very strict and my mothers house was full of screaming and fear and blame ~very insecure about myself Him = 24 male no children ~broken home... father was military and often on deployment and mother very dependant on others such as her parents or any man who would give her "financial or emotional stability" ~multiple girlfriends that were either controlling or would cheat ~birth defects that cause him insecurities about his body even as an adult (though i dont notice or even care about them) ~very outgoing and secure in every aspect of his life aside from the afore mentioned course theres much more about both of us than just the above things however that would take pages and pages to type out =) Us= ~when we first got together almost 3 years ago we "got busy" often and it was GREAT I loved it and he seemed to as well... now it seems im lucky if i get "some" once a week. He claims that sex isnt important, whats important is our friendship and companionship... he likes it he just doesnt need it as often as me.... he claims i think about sex all the time (which i really dont want it constantly or at least not as often as he claims i do) but i see "evidence" of him looking at porn and masterbating(computer... psp...all the things guys leave behind and think we dont know.....have even caught him) ~I like to look at porn and masterbate....he likes to look at it and masterbate.... we have even done both together....at first it didnt seem to bother me but as our sex life has slowed down it bothers me alot ~I weighed 100 pounds when we met and 5 foot 2 ive gained 30 pounds and i feel gross so that doesnt help the situation at all...hes gained 100 pounds or so since we met and i dont care one bit...hes still as sexy as when i first met him ~He says he does it cuz he will be watching a movie or playing everquest or whatever hes doing and the thought "pops into his head" so he goes and does it so he can get back to what he was doing and not think about it anymore. that he can do this in a span of 5 minutes by himself which could take 15-30 with me so its just easier to take care of it on his own so he can concentrate on what he was doing. He says it doesnt mean he doesnt love me...doesnt mean that he doesnt think my body is beautiful and hot...doesnt mean he wants to cheat on me....he says that the porn just helps give him a visual to "get the job done" so he can go back to whatever it was he was doing. ~I used to do it cuz it felt good and it was easy and safe. my ex husband the last 2 years we were together rejected me that whole time (secretly cheating on me i found out later) and that was the only thing i could do.... the abusive boyfriend after him was so horrible that i did that when he wasnt around simply to give myself some comfort and plus pleasure since i couldnt be happy having sex with him since he was so awful....better than cheating right? so heres the problem....... I feel insecure now... i feel like im not good enough, i dont look good enough i dont have sex good enough hes bored with me (and to be honest i think im a little bored sometimes so i think my thoughts on it reflect how i "believe" his thoughts to be) I want sex with my boyfriend more often and with more "zing" in it i guess you could say. I cant talk to him about it cuz he thinks im nuts and that im trying to control him like my jerk ex boyfriend who was so abusive....so im afraid to say anything that he might take it the wrong way..... but things arent ok so im afraid not to say anything for fear that it will get worse and never get better... he almost left me last week becuz i confronted him about "evidence" but i managed to talk him into staying I love this guy so much and I want things to work with us... hes the smartest man ive ever met and the most loving... but my insecurities keep getting in the way..... I dont want to tell him to never masterbate or look at porn...i now understand that this is normal for a guy and sometimes women too What im looking for is steps to help myself work through this so that I can be as open and understanding about all this as he is so that we can move past this and have a healthier relationship and a better friendship....he means everything to me please help Edited March 1, 2008 by Tryn2betah Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 so heres the problem....... I feel insecure now... i feel like im not good enough, i dont look good enough i dont have sex good enough hes bored with me (and to be honest i think im a little bored sometimes so i think my thoughts on it reflect how i "believe" his thoughts to be) I want sex with my boyfriend more often and with more "zing" in it i guess you could say. I cant talk to him about it cuz he thinks im nuts and that im trying to control him like my jerk ex boyfriend who was so abusive....so im afraid to say anything that he might take it the wrong way..... but things arent ok so im afraid not to say anything for fear that it will get worse and never get better... he almost left me last week becuz i confronted him about "evidence" but i managed to talk him into staying I love this guy so much and I want things to work with us... hes the smartest man ive ever met and the most loving... but my insecurities keep getting in the way..... I dont want to tell him to never masterbate or look at porn...i now understand that this is normal for a guy and sometimes women too What im looking for is steps to help myself work through this so that I can be as open and understanding about all this as he is so that we can move past this and have a healthier relationship and a better friendship....he means everything to me please help I can relate to much of your post. Our sex life has kind of slowed down over the years (we've been together almost 8, married almost 4). My h masturbates to porn occassionally, as do I, and I think we both do it because the thought "pops" into our heads at a convenient time and for me , as well as him, it gets the "job" done quickly. I am pretty sure that he does it more often than me (a couple of times a week for him, once or twice a month at most for me). I also wish we actually did it with each other more often, but doing it with another person is more "trouble": I'm tired, or he's tired, the kids are with us (I'm divorced from their dad, h number one) and still awake (my 13 year old daughter is sometimes awake in her room until midnight) and it's a small house, etc.. But I would be more than willing to put these concerns aside for the good of us - he is more reticent, which makes me wonder if he really wants to at all. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that you think that you project your own boredom on your partner. I think I am guilty of this psychological maneuver as well. We've had other issues (strip clubs/lying) that took a direct hit at my trust and our relationship. Things haven't been quite the same for me since. Oh, yeah, you asked for help. I guess all I can say is keep the lines of communication open, try to be non-judgmental or confrontational. In the past, I would never have thought the porn/masturbation routine was the problem for us, but now I wonder. In fact, my h masturbates daily (with or without porn) and maybe this is cutting into his desire for sex with me. But he just says it is part of his daily routine, and I don't think he is going to change. Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 But, I think I am changing. There's the danger. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 In fact, my h masturbates daily (with or without porn) and maybe this is cutting into his desire for sex with me. But he just says it is part of his daily routine, and I don't think he is going to change. Annieo, I look at it like any other part of a relationship. The amount of money I spend is fine unless it cuts into our financial security. The amount of time I spend on a hobby is fine unless it infringes on the time my spouse wants to spend with me. And so, the frequency of my masturbation is up to me unless it impacts my sex life with my partner. Your H's "daily routine" obviously is taking a toll on your sex life, other factors aside. Were it me, I'd be painfully direct with him... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 . The amount of time I spend on a hobby is fine unless it infringes on the time my spouse wants to spend with me. And so, the frequency of my masturbation is up to me unless it impacts my sex life with my partner. I'm sorry but are your implying rubbing one off to porn is considered your hobby? :laugh: Sure gives the word a whole new meaning... <EDIT> Im sorry this is so long =( Heres some short history about me and my current love Me = 38 female with one male child (im trying to learn for myself as well as the health of my son who i know will depend on me in part so that he has healthy relationships) ~Marriage (12 years and with a child) that went bad over drugs and sex and cheating "for REAL" and plain old disrespect on his part and trying to control things on my part...many secrets many lies.....bad combination ~since divorce met up with a man who was not only sexually abusive but mentally abusive and horribly controlling and jealous of everything and anything... thank whatever higher power you all believe in that waste of space is gone (i left him 3 years ago with the help of my little brother and 2 of his friends but it still haunts me sometimes) ~grew up in a broken home where my fathers house was very very christian and very strict and my mothers house was full of screaming and fear and blame ~very insecure about myself Him = 24 male no children ~broken home... father was military and often on deployment and mother very dependant on others such as her parents or any man who would give her "financial or emotional stability" ~multiple girlfriends that were either controlling or would cheat ~birth defects that cause him insecurities about his body even as an adult (though i dont notice or even care about them) ~very outgoing and secure in every aspect of his life aside from the afore mentioned I'm sorry but the bottom line I see here is that he is 24. I know you will say he is a mature 24yr old or that he doesn't act his age he is more mature than the typical 24yr old.. that doesn't matter. He could be all those things, but his life experience is still that of a 24yr old. Also, and given what you described in men sometimes porn addiction or acute preoccupation with pornography = depression, it is an escape from some form of emotional pain they feel and the escape to porn is a way to anesthetize those feelings of pain. Childhood trauma has a lot to do with this addiction as well. Read up on the internet on porn addiction and depression. I don't know your guy's story but rule those out first before you think he is just being a "pervy". It could the combination of his past with having to accept that at 24 he is living the life of someone a lot older than him and perhaps he wishes he didn't have to just yet. He may not admit to this but it could be eating away at him and he doesn't have the heart to bring it up because he loves you and wants to be with you but maybe wishes he could be his age and carefree not be tied down at the same time. Men struggle with this even into their older years imagine a 24 yr old guy... I'm sorry if you may not want to hear this but that is my hunch. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I'm sorry but are your implying rubbing one off to porn is considered your hobby? :laugh: Sure gives the word a whole new meaning... Well, my main hobby does involve a sure, one-handed grip on the shaft. However, as I've gotten older, I find myself playing less singles and more doubles ... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Well, my main hobby does involve a sure, one-handed grip on the shaft. However, as I've gotten older, I find myself playing less singles and more doubles ... Mr. Lucky Phewwww that IS a relief, tennis or squash is indeed the type of hobby I envision when I hear the word "hobby" thank goodness we got that straightened out. :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites
insideout1 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 This is serious, and you better look more into it. Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShortie Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Annieo, I look at it like any other part of a relationship. The amount of money I spend is fine unless it cuts into our financial security. The amount of time I spend on a hobby is fine unless it infringes on the time my spouse wants to spend with me. And so, the frequency of my masturbation is up to me unless it impacts my sex life with my partner. If you don't think a man isn't effected by porn and a regular use of it, then you aren't being competely realistic. What you choose to let into your life, on a regular basis effects you. Otherwise Advertising for Cola and Target wouldn't be so popular. And while your examples are true, money and hobby's don't come from the same place all together because quite simply they are aren't activities that invovle the opposite sex and a man' attraction and want for other women. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 And while your examples are true, money and hobby's don't come from the same place all together because quite simply they are aren't activities that invovle the opposite sex and a man' attraction and want for other women. In my own awkward way Jersey, I was agreeing with you. If porn use is a problem for either spouse, then it's a problem for both. As a man I might think "she just doesn't get it", but as a husband I have to show my wife the same respect for her wishes and concerns that I'd expect in return... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShortie Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Why do men even have to look at porn? Why can't they just be happy with what they have and like be loyal and junk? It ends up hurting alot of women. Link to post Share on other sites
lexi29 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 OP, There is nothing wrong with you being uncomfortable about your husband's actions. If this was discussed before marriage and he knew your feelings about secrecy and agreed to adhere to that then he should respect your feelings and quit "using". I had an ex that his porn addiction contributed to me leaving him. Its not that I have a major problem with porn but its the secrecy and lying that I can't stand. My ex told me he never used porn and then I found tons of it!! We would watch it together at times so he knew I wasn't against it but he would use porn and not be able to have sex (because he'd masturbated twice already that day) with me when I wanted to. He told me he cut back and had gotten rid of most of it but then I found about 1000 internet sites he looked at on my laptop when I was away and that he'd been purchasing ppv porn and taping it. My current guy likes porn and has a few dvds and we will watch them together. He is very open about his porn usage, if he's alone and has had some fun by himself he will normally tell me. I don't ask but he will just add that as one of the things he did that day. It also never interferes with OUR sex life. If it did I would have a problem with it. I think your husband needs to be open and honest and stop hiding this from you and lying to you about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 What this poster understands... ...and this poster doesn't... ...is that men and women are different in many general aspects of their sexuality. It's not a question of right or wrong, but simply one of genetics and gender. We are wired by sex to respond to different things. Jess-Belle, what thoughts or images that your BF would jerk off to would you approve of ? Mr. Lucky Sorry to have taken so long in responding! In a nutshell, we think about each other. I certainly don't fantasize about other men, I feel that it is wrong and disrespectful to my man, and he seems to feel the same about the matter. While I can't be the thought police, I do know how I feel, and trust that he's being honest with me too. I asked him once out of curiosity what he thought about the idea that people sometimes fantasize about someone else while making love etc. He thought it was dreadful. Then he got all worried that maybe I thought that was OK. Anyway, so yeah, so our fantasies revolve around each other. Nothing wrong with that imo. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Why do men even have to look at porn? Why can't they just be happy with what they have and like be loyal and junk? It ends up hurting alot of women. I don't really have an answer to that, but I will point out something interesting I read once. It was an article that basically pointed out that before things like Playboy and porn became totally mainstream and "acceptable", society's take on that stuff was totally different. I wouldn't know, because it's been mainstream as long as I have been on this earth. But it really got me thinking how it easy it is to just assume things have always been the way they are now. Now I'm not about to pretend to be an expert on men, but is this issue solely about what guys are "wired" to respond to etc.? Or does the fact that society glorifies porn now have anything to do with it? I find it hard to believe that it doesn't. I also find it hard to believe that the fact that we still live in a patriarchal society has nothing to do with it either. Just some food for thought Link to post Share on other sites
annieo Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I don't really have an answer to that, but I will point out something interesting I read once. It was an article that basically pointed out that before things like Playboy and porn became totally mainstream and "acceptable", society's take on that stuff was totally different. I wouldn't know, because it's been mainstream as long as I have been on this earth. But it really got me thinking how it easy it is to just assume things have always been the way they are now. Now I'm not about to pretend to be an expert on men, but is this issue solely about what guys are "wired" to respond to etc.? Or does the fact that society glorifies porn now have anything to do with it? I find it hard to believe that it doesn't. I also find it hard to believe that the fact that we still live in a patriarchal society has nothing to do with it either. Just some food for thought When I was in university, a friend of mine introduced me to some very interesting "erotic fiction" that was written pre-1900. The Victorians, while prudish on the outside, wrote some of the freakiest stuff I have EVER come across, and I've done some looking. I mean, really kinked-out, name an illegal act and it was there kind of freaky. I think the difference is that society, in general, is a little more open about sex than it has been in the past. The Victorian gentlemen would have had to be fairly covert and secretive about getting his porn collection together. Couldn't just log on, although it seems that many men seem to need/like the secretive aspect of looking at porn, judging from all the lying about it that goes on. I disagree with you, Jesse. I think many men and some women have always been interested in looking at naked bodies and sexual scenes/acts. I think that certain sectors of society have just become very efficient at getting their product into the hands/eyes of the consumer. And it is more permissable now, which also makes it easier. But I think the desire for porn came first, and the abundance of it came second. Link to post Share on other sites
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