I really am strange, but bear with me...

[Chauncey]

...so some of you have probably seen some of my other posts, if not, I'm sure you will run into them if you stay on these forums long enough.

 

Basically I'm having trouble forgetting my girlfriend's past. I know there have been numerous posts on this, (not to mention a pretty recent and popular topic probably a couple down from mine) but I really need some more insight into all of this.

 

Background:

 

My current girlfriend is the first serious and LTR I have ever had. We love each other dearly, and I can honestly say she is everything I've looked for in a woman. We've been dating for a little under a year, and before we dated (we met at school) we were good friends and she was seeing another guy at the time.

 

Things bothering me:

 

Since being with her, I've found out a few things I wish I would have never found out about. These things have made me look at her differently. She is definitely not the person I first expected her to be, and it's honestly a bit disappointing.

 

- She once told me a story about she got drunk one time at a party and made out with a guy in front of his gf. Well the same story surfaced from her friend/roomate in which she said that she actually went down on him outside of the party. She was pretty embarrassed and I wasn't too happy to hear it.

 

- She told me a story about how she picked up a guy while looking at some of the monuments in D.C., made out while looking at them, driving him to a party that night, and than finding out he had to be up in Anapolis that same night (she ended up getting a guy friend to take him up)

 

- Was cleaning up her computer after she asked me to install a few things, and when I went to her Recycle Bin, I found some photos of her posing in her underwear. She was embarrassed that I found them, and obviously they were for a former boyfriend of hers.

 

- She ended up having sex with a guy she only dated for 4 days, even though when we first began dating (after knowing each other for 6 months) we didn't have sex until 10 months) even though she told me before that she takes sex seriously.

 

I know what matters now is the present, and our future together, not the past, but it's hard for me to look at her the same way I use to before I knew these things. I know it shouldn't bother me this much, and to be frank she's changed quite a bit from what I understand, but I'm just confused and frustrated.

 

She knows something has been bothering me lately, and I have convinced her there is nothing. Should I bring this to her attention? I'm worried I might hurt her feelings.

 

Any ideas?

[Krytie TV]

Dunno man. I can think of things I've done that would put hers to shame. I think you just need to decide whether you can tolerate it or not. She didn't live in a bubble before you. None of the things you've said about her seem all that bad to me. In my experience, your girlfriend's past is among the most innocent you'll see, though you just don't know that yet. You're just freaking out because you have no experience. That's not her fault. If you can't respect who she is, break up with her, then you'll have a past too.

[Trialbyfire]

Chauncey, the question to ask yourself, is if you would have dated her having known all this ahead of time. If the answer is no, you have to consider if she's the type of person you would prefer in your life. If the answer is yes, you have to let it go, since you've acknowledged that she's a changed person.

[AAlike]

First of all, you're not strange. This is a very common problem for men - I've just went through it myself.

 

The root of your problem is this:

 

She is definitely not the person I first expected her to be, and it's honestly a bit disappointing.

 

Are you sure about this? She's "definitely" not that person? If you've already made some sort of ultimate judgement like this, then end your relationship, plain and simple. I think that's the root of these "girlfriend's past" problems - taking isolated incidents and acting as if they shape someone's whole persona. In principle, it's ridiculous - I mean, I shoplifted once when I was 18 years old...I don't know why I did it, I was with some not-so-positive people, but it happened, I felt stupid and that was it. Now I'm a businessman in my early 30's and haven't seen those people since my teenage years - I certainly don't think of myself as being defined as a "shoplifter." I got charged with possession of marijuana once when I was 20 - I haven't touched a joint in 8 years. If I tell either of those stories to people that I know now, no one acts like it's some character-defining incident - they know me well enough. But for some reason, guys tend to do this with their girlfriend's isolated casual sexual incidents.

 

And I've done it too - my current GF told me of an incident that happened several years ago in which, while between relationships, she experimented with three guys. According to her it was basically a failure and it only lasted a few minutes with everyone getting weirded out but in those few minutes most of what happens in that type of scenario happened. She didn't even tell it to me as a "confession" or anything - we were just talking about crazy stuff and she told me more in a "oh you want to hear something stupid" way and figured if anything it would prove to me that she WASN'T that kind of girl...but yet I still bugged out a little bit - I'd had my fair share of casual sex, but group sex as a concept is not intriguing to me at all and something that I consider a little "icky." Over time it really got to me, and I didn't really know why. It actually got to the point where I was a little worried that I'd never be able to dissociate her from this horrible vision that I was having. But after talking to her a little more about it (and not in a judgemental, "how could you do such a thing" manner) and just trying to think logically, I realized that I was taking a five-minute blunder that she didn't even think about anymore and using it to define her whole character, which was completely insane.

 

While the incidents that you cited on this list were not flattering (although the only one that would bother me in the slightest would be the one that involves someone's gf, and even then, if this is a college party that stuff isn't that rare), they are all isolated incidents. We're talking a total of four days in someone's life. I can understand though if it really took you guys that long to have sex when before she'd done it in days why you're thinking that she's a little hypocritical - but realize a few things...it's very possible that she didn't realize that sex meant a lot to her until she tried it casually a few times and found it unfulfilling. and if you guys are in love, sex with you most likely exists on a whole different plane for her than it did in these incidents. That actually helped me out in dealing with this kind of stuff with my GF - the physical connection is unlike anything i've ever had, and my own past is so insignificant in my head - I'm sure that hers is too.

 

Should you approach her? It depends. I know that in my case getting some details helped me out - but it seems that in yours you know the details at this point, so I don't know what more she can say. The issue is pretty much yours now. What NOT to do, however, is bring it up in a manner in which you are scolding her or that you need her to express remorse - in many of these situations guys want to take solace in the fact that they've made the girl feel bad about what they did...remember, if she's in a committed relationship with you now, she's already dealt with this stuff on her end, and she certainly doesn't owe you an apology for something that she did before you were in the picture. The issue is squarely with you - if you think that approaching her and telling her that although you love her you just need a little closure on some incidents so that you too can put them in the past and her talking about them a little might give you that, then go ahead - but you're treading on dangerous ground.

[Cobra_X30]

- She ended up having sex with a guy she only dated for 4 days, even though when we first began dating (after knowing each other for 6 months) we didn't have sex until 10 months) even though she told me before that she takes sex seriously.

 

This would give me pause, more than anything. Was this your choice to wait?

 

If not... why so long? Women much more than men are willing to be in a relationship where they don't have a strong attraction to thier partner. You may simply represent safety and security to her but no chemistry.

 

I would explore this issue in depth.

 

The issue is pretty much yours now. ...remember, if she's in a committed relationship with you now, she's already dealt with this stuff on her end, and she certainly doesn't owe you an apology for something that she did before you were in the picture. The issue is squarely with you -

 

Overall your points are spot on!

 

However I would like to quickly point out that just because she is in a committed relationship does not mean she has her ducks in a row!

 

More often than not she hasnt actually dealt with the issues of her past... she just is able to ignore currently. It still has a profound impact on who she is and who she will be. That may be positive for him... or negative... only the future will tell.

[BetrayedMM]

Considering the complete contempt towards traditional values in much of today's society, by 'modern' standards that sounds like a squeaky clean record. I didn't hear anything particularly alarming about her past. A couple mistakes, learning experiences maybe, nothing really scary though.

 

However, Cobra has a good point about the chemistry. Believe me, if the chemistry is strong, it doesn't take long at all. Under those circumstances, it becomes very difficult to avoid sex. 4 days? For 2 young healthy folks with raging hormones, that might seem like an eternity.:bunny:

OTOH, 10 months is a long time for people who are sexually active, especially since there was a long friendship first... If there were a lot of sexual tension throughout the friendship(caused by 'chemistry'), it seems to me that the first order of business upon officially becoming a 'couple' would be to relieve that tension. That's not what happened though.

[whichwayisup]

The past has helped her be who she is today. Yesterday and her past doesn't matter, what matters is the NOW and your future with her.

 

Did you ask about her past or did just choose to tell you about it? Either way, right now you have a decision to make. Let HER past ruin your relationship, or deal with it, let go of it as HER past has nothing to do with YOU. If you love her and want her, then try your best to please work through the jealously and feelings that are negative.

[AAlike]

This would give me pause, more than anything. Was this your choice to wait?

 

If not... why so long? Women much more than men are willing to be in a relationship where they don't have a strong attraction to thier partner. You may simply represent safety and security to her but no chemistry.

 

I would explore this issue in depth.

 

Ah also an interesting point - I hadn't thought about that. Had it been a month or something I could see, maybe "rushing" it in the previous situations had been one of the reasons that her past relationships had screwed up and she places more stock in the act now - I know that I am way less apt to screw now, ask questions later than I was ten years ago. But ten months does seem oddly long.

 

 

Overall your points are spot on!

 

However I would like to quickly point out that just because she is in a committed relationship does not mean she has her ducks in a row!

 

More often than not she hasnt actually dealt with the issues of her past... she just is able to ignore currently. It still has a profound impact on who she is and who she will be. That may be positive for him... or negative... only the future will tell.

 

Sure someone's past AS A WHOLE has a profound impact on who they were and are - the past being defined as a summation of experiences and feelings, but OP is not talking about her past as a a whole. He is talking about four isolated incidents that he views as negative. To say that any one of these isolated incidents shaped who his girlfriend is to some significant degree is silly. I mean seriously, do you really believe that one drunken college hookup has a "profound effect" on shaping someone's character and/or existence? People do crazy and unpredictable things on impulse, especially when they're young, and sexual activities are no different. If they knew that those impulses would hurt someone that they would fall in love with in the future, THEN maybe you could question their character - but usually, that's not the case.

[Chauncey]

You all bring up good points, and I really do appreciate it.

 

I think what the problem here is, that I've never had this serious of a relationship anyone. Whether it be physical, emotional, spiritual, or what else have you. So I feel as though I have a stronger connection to this woman, and believe I know her enough. However when I hear or see these things bubble up, it makes me worried that I may have not known her as good as I thought.

 

As far as waiting to become intimate...there was a lot of sexual frustration towards the end of us just being friends. I asked her once before our first sexual encounter, and she asked if we could wait because she takes sex seriously. Based on what I know about her, this now seems pretty funny for what it is. I think she might have been worried that I wouldn't have enjoyed it, or that it would have ruined our friendship....not really sure.

 

It's really all so funny, as these things never bothered me that much before...I guess I forgot them, until recently. Now I can't seem to get them out of my head, sometimes it is hard for me to get intimate with her just thinking about these things.

 

I'm not a prude, I can assure you, it's just that I have always taken sex seriously, not just something to do when one is bored, or trying to get revenge on someone, but something shared by two people who care for each other deeply. I think the one thing that bothers me the most is the fact that she went down on a guy who she knew had a gf (who was attending the same party) and for the longest time told me they made out, than I have to learn the real truth from her roomate, in front of a group of my friends at a surprise birthday party I through her.

 

I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, so I'm going to try to move on...

[Cobra_X30]

Ah also an interesting point - I hadn't thought about that. Had it been a month or something I could see, maybe "rushing" it in the previous situations had been one of the reasons that her past relationships had screwed up and she places more stock in the act now - I know that I am way less apt to screw now, ask questions later than I was ten years ago. But ten months does seem oddly long.

Yes, while it depends somewhat on the woman... for the most part 10 months is way... way long. Especially when she has a history of the opposite.

 

I know some women think it's good to hold out on guys they think have high potential to gain some kind of respect. However... if a guy figures out that she was not like that with other men... It's very degrading. I think that may be how he is feeling.

 

 

Sure someone's past AS A WHOLE has a profound impact on who they were and are - the past being defined as a summation of experiences and feelings, but OP is not talking about her past as a a whole. He is talking about four isolated incidents that he views as negative. To say that any one of these isolated incidents shaped who his girlfriend is to some significant degree is silly. I mean seriously, do you really believe that one drunken college hookup has a "profound effect" on shaping someone's character and/or existence? People do crazy and unpredictable things on impulse, especially when they're young, and sexual activities are no different. If they knew that those impulses would hurt someone that they would fall in love with in the future, THEN maybe you could question their character - but usually, that's not the case.

 

When regarding relationships we tend to act as we have practiced... or as we have trained ourselves to act. You may consider this four isolated events... yet it is a fairly good indicator of her previous conditioning and general belief towards sex. It's highly probable that she has since changed, however it's pretty obvious that she has failed to make him understand or believe in that change. Instead she has created insecurity within the relationship that did not previously exist.

 

These actions are situational experiences. Meaning that because we learn by association, these experiences are fundemental in her understanding of sex and sexuality.

[Cobra_X30]

I think the one thing that bothers me the most is the fact that she went down on a guy who she knew had a gf (who was attending the same party) and for the longest time told me they made out, than I have to learn the real truth from her roomate, in front of a group of my friends at a surprise birthday party I through her.

 

I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, so I'm going to try to move on...

 

Yeah... if that's what bothers you the most... I'd say not a big deal.

 

She is obviously ashamed of it, and was just afraid you would judge her. Maybe take some time and make her feel extra comfortable talking to you!

 

Sounds like no big deal in the end!

[StartingOver07]

This would give me pause, more than anything. Was this your choice to wait?

 

If not... why so long? Women much more than men are willing to be in a relationship where they don't have a strong attraction to thier partner. You may simply represent safety and security to her but no chemistry.

 

I agree, especially since I am somewhat familiar with the backstory, which is that Chauncey's gf is sexually selfish. He gives, she receives, then she goes to sleep.

[Cobra_X30]

I agree, especially since I am somewhat familiar with the backstory, which is that Chauncey's gf is sexually selfish. He gives, she receives, then she goes to sleep.

 

Holy crap! I just went back and read that!

 

Doesnt that remind you of 'downthatslide's situation where he describes his GF as just like a corpse in the bedroom?

 

She had a much more colorful past than Chauncey's GF though.

[child_of_isis]

Maybe she learned from her mistakes.

 

Maybe she learned that casual sex just isn't what she wants. She tried it, she didn't like it.

 

 

As far as waiting to become intimate...there was a lot of sexual frustration towards the end of us just being friends. I asked her once before our first sexual encounter, and she asked if we could wait because she takes sex seriously. Based on what I know about her, this now seems pretty funny for what it is.

[downthatslide]

My mistake, hit reply on the wrong thread

Edited January 19, 2008 by downthatslide

[cutegirl]

First of all, you're not strange. This is a very common problem for men - I've just went through it myself.

 

 

Don't think that it's ONLY a problem for men. I am female and I also had the same problems with my ex. GUYS pasts bothers me also, it's also the same thing of "I didn't know who he really was" and FYI I don't have double standards, I don't feel good about dating a guy who had had many partners etc.

[Ronni_W]

These things have made me look at her differently. She is definitely not the person I first expected her to be, and it's honestly a bit disappointing.

...something has been bothering me lately, and I have convinced her there is nothing. I'm worried I might hurt her feelings.

I'm getting that the real, human person who your g/f actually is does not live up to your unrealistic expectations, unreasonable "standards" and childish desire for "perfection and purity."

 

I'm getting that you want to control your g/f and the dynamics of your relationship by lying so you can "convince" her of something about you that is untrue.

 

I guess she would be rather disappointed in you, to learn of your lack of maturity, inability to accept human shortcomings, eagerness to stay stuck in her past, and unwillingness to show empathy and understanding.

 

I'm getting that your concern about being honest with her about your "disappointment" in her is that she'll tell you *exactly* where to put that pedestal that you imagined she was sitting on, when you first hooked up. Or worse, that she'll offer to HELP YOU put that pedestal in place.

 

There is nothing in your post to suggest that you have the capacity to care about whether or not you hurt her feelings.

[AAlike]

Don't think that it's ONLY a problem for men. I am female and I also had the same problems with my ex. GUYS pasts bothers me also, it's also the same thing of "I didn't know who he really was" and FYI I don't have double standards, I don't feel good about dating a guy who had had many partners etc.

 

It's not only a problem for men but it certainly seems to be a lot more prevalent for us.

 

Did you break up with your ex because of this problem?

[AAlike]

I'm getting that the real, human person who your g/f actually is does not live up to your unrealistic expectations, unreasonable "standards" and childish desire for "perfection and purity."

 

I'm getting that you want to control your g/f and the dynamics of your relationship by lying so you can "convince" her of something about you that is untrue.

 

I guess she would be rather disappointed in you, to learn of your lack of maturity, inability to accept human shortcomings, eagerness to stay stuck in her past, and unwillingness to show empathy and understanding.

 

I'm getting that your concern about being honest with her about your "disappointment" in her is that she'll tell you *exactly* where to put that pedestal that you imagined she was sitting on, when you first hooked up. Or worse, that she'll offer to HELP YOU put that pedestal in place.

 

There is nothing in your post to suggest that you have the capacity to care about whether or not you hurt her feelings.

 

oooh man that's rough. I kinda like it though - I think I needed to hear it as well, actually.

 

that's the thing - while I was freaking over my incident, I KNEW that I was acting so stupid - it was like I was apologizing at the same time that I was questioning her. but we're all a little guarded about love - making a commitment to another human being is unlike any other decision that someone can make, and these supposed "imperfections" in that person can scare us a little - that's really the only thing that I can tell you to explain my own behavior...it's strange because I feel like I confronted, dealt with and rationalized the incident itself quickly but there were other factors that wouldn't let me "get over it" - maybe I was using it as some subconscious sticking point or manifestation of paranoia from dealing with an unfamilar emotion.

[cutegirl]

It's not only a problem for men but it certainly seems to be a lot more prevalent for us.

 

Did you break up with your ex because of this problem?

 

No, but I actually don't date partly because of this. I would rather die alone than be with a guy who has had too many partners etc and I think any guy can lie and you will never know the truth, the only way to know for sure is to just be alone. I'm 29 now and before my ex I went through a period where I didn't date, was single and had no sex for 7 years and I know I can go on another 7 no problem.

 

With my ex I did become obsessive and it bothered me throughout our entire relationship

[Chauncey]

 

There is nothing in your post to suggest that you have the capacity to care about whether or not you hurt her feelings.

 

Actually that is the furthest from the truth. I would appreciate comments that are not in the form of a psychological diagnosis. I do care, and I will always care for her and her feelings. IF anything, I'm too sensitive to her feelings, and to my past gf's.

 

I really am making an effort to try to wipe my mind of her past, but for some unexplained reason, I really am having difficulty doing it.

 

So yeah, your post is way off...

[AAlike]

No, but I actually don't date partly because of this. I would rather die alone than be with a guy who has had too many partners etc and I think any guy can lie and you will never know the truth, the only way to know for sure is to just be alone. I'm 29 now and before my ex I went through a period where I didn't date, was single and had no sex for 7 years and I know I can go on another 7 no problem.

 

With my ex I did become obsessive and it bothered me throughout our entire relationship

 

wow that's definitely interesting. so if you found out that somebody had some predetermined number of partners, it wouldn't matter the circumstances, you would completely eliminate them as a potential mate despite any attraction or compatibility? What about, as in the story that I described with my GF, you found out that someone had one crazy, isolated incident but other than that had been in a few monogamous relationships? would you write them off just due to the capability of doing something experimental? and honestly, once people hit 30, it's possible to have had double digit sex partners easily without even having a ONS or casual fling.

 

I totally understand the idea that going forward you and your BF should share similar views on sexual issues and similar moral grounds in general - no doubt about it. But I know from my own experiences that my views on sex in general have changed drastically since the time that I accumulated a lot of my "number". What I'm looking for in my life has completely changed as well.

 

I guess I don't see a problem with using someone's previous number of partners as a sort of "pre-screening" - obviously someone whose number is well beyond what you consider reasonable or acceptable is probably less apt to share views with you, but to make a complete and utter judgement on them based upon only that factor is just so restrictive. If you and a guy really love one another, I'd be willing to wager that any casual exploits that he's had are totally meaningless in comparison and I'm sure that it's only your obsessing that is giving them any relative importance at all. People's sexual histories are not criminal records, and I think that more people need to realize that. Sure, the thought of your significant other with someone else is always going to sting - but you need to realize that someone who wants to be with you has certainly moved past that. and swearing off dating just for the POTENTIAL that someone might lie to you - I think that you're unnecessarily torturing yourself.

[Cobra_X30]

I'm getting that the real, human person who your g/f actually is does not live up to your unrealistic expectations, unreasonable "standards" and childish desire for "perfection and purity."

I'm getting that you want to control your g/f and the dynamics of your relationship by lying so you can "convince" her of something about you that is untrue.

I guess she would be rather disappointed in you, to learn of your lack of maturity, inability to accept human shortcomings, eagerness to stay stuck in her past, and unwillingness to show empathy and understanding.

I'm getting that your concern about being honest with her about your "disappointment" in her is that she'll tell you *exactly* where to put that pedestal that you imagined she was sitting on, when you first hooked up. Or worse, that she'll offer to HELP YOU put that pedestal in place.

There is nothing in your post to suggest that you have the capacity to care about whether or not you hurt her feelings.

 

It's ok to be wrong... but your wrong and rude. There really isnt any excuse for that.

 

You obviously didn't go back and read any of Chauncey's other threads did you?

[Florida]

No, but I actually don't date partly because of this. I would rather die alone than be with a guy who has had too many partners etc and I think any guy can lie and you will never know the truth, the only way to know for sure is to just be alone. I'm 29 now and before my ex I went through a period where I didn't date, was single and had no sex for 7 years and I know I can go on another 7 no problem.

 

With my ex I did become obsessive and it bothered me throughout our entire relationship

 

Cutegirl, the problem with just solely focusing on low numbers is that it still doesn't tell you the important things about his charachter. He may have commitment issues, maybe they were just random encounters.

 

For example, he may have only been with 3, but maybe he led them on and just was using them by lying about his intentions. Or maybe they were all one night stands and he could not be faitful to one woman so had a few random encounters.

 

I agree with you on most points, but I find that assessing their character works better than the alternative to hire a P.I. which still doesn't let you know about their character.

 

Conversations to find out if they had a one night stand, have they ever turned down sex if they didn't feel compatible with a woman, have they ever pursued a married woman, are very important to know for me, have they ever moved on to another woman before finishing things with the SO.

 

Add whatever you need to add to this list. It is about assessing their values through actions.

 

I find it is almost impossible for someone to keep up a facade about these things. It's always revealed in the course of many casual conversations if you know how to pry without seeming judgemental or as long as there is no sense of what the *right* answer is at the time, so as to illicit a free flowing dialogue.

 

If you ask probing questions again and again, and subtley reformatting them each time, like

"what did you like about her? "

"Why didn't you pursue with that particular girl? She seemed to like you."

" Did you ever get into a crazy situation before? What did you do? "

"do you think you could *do it* if you didn't feel much towards the girl but she came on to you?"

 

This usually is accomplished better in the beginning before the guy can suss out what you *want* to hear.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Florida

[JHS]

It is a deep and complex topic with individualized answers and is not limited to men (I recall reading about Tsar Nicholas II's wife being bothered by this). I went through this type of thing, very painfully, over 20 years ago. Imagine my search for information in a time with no internet. Trust me, there was not much to help me through this baffling time.

 

My best advice to people is don't ask, don't tell. This may sound like an ostrich putting his head in the sand but trust me, it has come from much much thought emotions from anguish to happiness. When women ask me about my past, I give an intentionally vague answer and explain why or ask them if they really want to know the answer. And it not from anything of which I am ashamed. Usually the question is retracted. I have a personal gripe that women (men may too, but I've never dated a man) like to volunteer a lot of this information and I am not sure why. Sometimes I think it is cathartic for them, sometimes I think they just want to share. Not sure, but I try to explain that these details (your gf at that party, for example) are not necessary for me and us now. If they are necessary, well then I want to know. I dated a woman who was raped, for example. Although not really the same type of info it was important for her to discuss with me. It was equally important to discuss it from my perspective because I wanted her to know that it was not something that 'devalued' her, as she felt. I think that the movie, "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" touched on some of this idea.

 

Do not hold those things against her.

Make a decision now that your relationship is today going forward. These past events - transgressions, mistakes, fun times, however you want to characterize them - are just that. Past.