I really am strange, but bear with me...

[Ronni_W]

Actually that is the furthest from the truth.

Chauncey, I sorry that I came across as rude. I'm also relieved to hear that my interpretation of your post was completely wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to post back and let me know.

[cutegirl]

wow that's definitely interesting. so if you found out that somebody had some predetermined number of partners, it wouldn't matter the circumstances, you would completely eliminate them as a potential mate despite any attraction or compatibility? What about, as in the story that I described with my GF, you found out that someone had one crazy, isolated incident but other than that had been in a few monogamous relationships? would you write them off just due to the capability of doing something experimental? and honestly, once people hit 30, it's possible to have had double digit sex partners easily without even having a ONS or casual fling.

 

I totally understand the idea that going forward you and your BF should share similar views on sexual issues and similar moral grounds in general - no doubt about it. But I know from my own experiences that my views on sex in general have changed drastically since the time that I accumulated a lot of my "number". What I'm looking for in my life has completely changed as well.

 

I guess I don't see a problem with using someone's previous number of partners as a sort of "pre-screening" - obviously someone whose number is well beyond what you consider reasonable or acceptable is probably less apt to share views with you, but to make a complete and utter judgement on them based upon only that factor is just so restrictive. If you and a guy really love one another, I'd be willing to wager that any casual exploits that he's had are totally meaningless in comparison and I'm sure that it's only your obsessing that is giving them any relative importance at all. People's sexual histories are not criminal records, and I think that more people need to realize that. Sure, the thought of your significant other with someone else is always going to sting - but you need to realize that someone who wants to be with you has certainly moved past that. and swearing off dating just for the POTENTIAL that someone might lie to you - I think that you're unnecessarily torturing yourself.

 

I will be turning 30 next year and I have never had a ONS and only had 2 sex partners my whole life. Not because of moral reasons (I actually don't have high morals, I'm very loose) but mainly because I'm shy and anti-social.

 

Anyways, I think it's OK for me to eliminate a guy due to number of sex partners because GUYS ARE DOING THE SAME TO WOMEN, such as the OP for instance. Why is it ok for guys to do this but not women? It's a double standard! Guys want to screw around but settle down with a "good girl". It's not fair. I actually don't really want to be a "good girl", I'd rather be the "Bad girl" with lots of past partners, but since I don't, I don't feel it's fair that men get to have DOUBLE STANDARDS while women don't.

 

And another reason why I would be resentful of a guy's partners is because the guy got to have his fun while I didn't. I know it's self imposed and I could screw as much guys as I want to, but since I can't because I'm so introverted I would be jealous. I would feel like "Why did the guy get to have his fun while I didn't?" I would feel like it's not fair.

 

If a guy has had many partners I think it is more likely that he will want that thrill again since he has already experienced it firsthand. Love and compatibility is NEVER strong enough for a man to control his NATURAL URGE of procreating with as many women as possible in order to sow his seeds and ensure the procreation of the human species. I think a man's sexual urges override anything and everything including love, marriage vows etc, they'll do anything for that illicit thrill.

 

If a guy has had many partners he will want to experience that again because he already knows how thrilling it is. If a guy HAS NOT has lots of partners then he will always wonder what it is like to have a lot of partners and he is also likely to cheat. So basically either way you can't win.

 

The thing about being with a guy who had many partners is that you will always compete in your mind with the women from his past. I would always be wondering what those women looked like, if they were more attractive than me, it's just so much competition and so stressful.

[D-Lish]

Holy Crap.

 

Guys and girls think so differently.

If I really like someone- I always wait to have sex with them.

 

Her past doesn't seem tainted at all. It seems like an experimental phase lots of PEOPLE go through on the path to adulthood and figuring out who they are as human beings.

 

I don't even see much of what she did as "mistakes".... I see it as growing up in the modern world where men and women BOTH have hormones and a desire to explore. By the sounds of it, her isolated incidents aren't anything to blink an eye at. A few encounters doesn't define who you are at the core.

 

She had a life before you. Should she had been a nun? Would that satisfy your ridiculous standards?

All that judgement is ridiculous. If I were her and I knew what your were thinking- I'd bolt so fast you wouldn't even hear the door close before I was a county away.

 

Judge people based on your experience with her.

My, you're harsh with your judgement.

 

Best of luck finding someone absolutely perfect who has never engaged in a crazy behaviour before.

 

You've never done anything crazy? Never made a mistake? Done anything you regret? Oh wait.... you're a guy- so it's okay, that's your right of passage. She's a female- so she should be a hormone-less virgin whose never even had an impure thought.

 

Get over it. Everything you feel- these are your insecurities and your problem. I feel super bad for your gf for trusting you enough to open up to you. She is not the one with the problem- it's all you brother.

[Chauncey]

I really don't understand how I am a horrible individual for thinking the way I do. I never said I love her any less since knowing these things. I never said that I am judging her solely on these instances and experiences, however I truly believe things that you have done make the person you are. Obviously she has changed a great deal since than, and this is something I am well aware of.

 

Similar to that of what Ghandi said in so many ways: I don't hate/not love her because what she has done, I am only disappointed in those things she has done. And I'm sure she is just as regretful.

 

I think one of the big problems, now that I have had some time to think about it, is that I have always looked at sex as something serious. Not something I'm willing to do for one night, as cliched, gay, queer, etc some of you might find it. And I just feel that she on the other hand found it to be just fine. Obviously we see different on this subject, just like many other individuals do. It's just that I never have been with someone like her, and obviously it is going to be new territory, and thus I will have to adapt...which I am trying to do as we speak.

 

But as I said before, considering I haven't had any real partners before her and she has had a few, coupled with the fact that she is making me sexually frustrated (see other post) I think is just creating too much stress.

 

I love it how some of you speak to me about judging yet you are so quick to judge myself and the relationship I have that I have given a very small look into...

[Chauncey]

IIf a guy HAS NOT has lots of partners then he will always wonder what it is like to have a lot of partners and he is also likely to cheat. So basically either way you can't win.

 

The thing about being with a guy who had many partners is that you will always compete in your mind with the women from his past. I would always be wondering what those women looked like, if they were more attractive than me, it's just so much competition and so stressful.

 

This is where I am now. I love my gf to death...I would literally do anything for this person. No one has ever made me as happy as she has, nor has anyone made me feel as happy as I was before battling a case of depression. However talk of marriage has come up now and again, and I think the majority of our friends are hinting that we will eventually tie the knot. Lots of pressure on all ends. And yes, from time to time I wonder what it would be like with other women. I'm not trying to sound like a sexist pig, but obviously I'm still a young man who has my whole life in front of me, not to mention more options.

 

And yes, I truly feel that when we are intimate, that I'm competing with some previous phantom bf/lover she has previously had. Again it's all in my mind, I am my own worst enemey, and only I can overcome this, but it's much easier said than done.

 

I really hate sounding so lost, confused, ignorant, etc. than the way I'm coming off, but I cannot act in any other comforting way, as this is how I truly feel.

[Chauncey]

Chauncey, I sorry that I came across as rude. I'm also relieved to hear that my interpretation of your post was completely wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to post back and let me know.

 

You didn't come off rude, and if there is one thing I am, is that I am always open to other individuals' opinions. You have yours and I only wanted to clarify a few things that you may have not been aware of. I understand where you were coming from, I'm only content that I was able to bring some new things to your attention.

[D-Lish]

I really don't understand how I am a horrible individual for thinking the way I do. I never said I love her any less since knowing these things. I never said that I am judging her solely on these instances and experiences, however I truly believe things that you have done make the person you are. Obviously she has changed a great deal since than, and this is something I am well aware of.

 

Similar to that of what Ghandi said in so many ways: I don't hate/not love her because what she has done, I am only disappointed in those things she has done. And I'm sure she is just as regretful.

 

I think one of the big problems, now that I have had some time to think about it, is that I have always looked at sex as something serious. Not something I'm willing to do for one night, as cliched, gay, queer, etc some of you might find it. And I just feel that she on the other hand found it to be just fine. Obviously we see different on this subject, just like many other individuals do. It's just that I never have been with someone like her, and obviously it is going to be new territory, and thus I will have to adapt...which I am trying to do as we speak.

 

But as I said before, considering I haven't had any real partners before her and she has had a few, coupled with the fact that she is making me sexually frustrated (see other post) I think is just creating too much stress.

 

I love it how some of you speak to me about judging yet you are so quick to judge myself and the relationship I have that I have given a very small look into...

 

Look, I am not judging you for your FEELINGS. You can't help the way you feel. I was a little harsh- I apologize.

 

I just want you to see this situation from a different perspective.

If she made you wait 10 months- she really, really cares about you, and she really takes this relationship seriously.

 

Sexually frustrated- I understand. But you are thinking "hey, if she gave it up easily to a stranger after 4 days.... I must mean LESS to her. But geez- the bottom line is that you mean MORE to her than that.

 

Women and men think differently. I get so defensive when the whole sexual past of men and women is presented as a double standard.

 

Everything that happened before you came along had no bearing on YOU.

And I am being honest when I tell you- that kind of experimentation is normal...and...tame.

 

I just have a hard time understanding if you love her... why is her past an issue at all. It's not a crazy past.....

 

I didn't mean to deny your feelings. But please understand that there is no such thing as a perfect human being with a perfect past. Is there something she isn't giving you now that is a problem?

 

She didn't even know you existed when these things happened.

Yes, we are shaped by our past- but we aren't a slave to it. We live and learn and we change....

 

Why is it a problem that she has had a little more experience?

It still seems she takes sex seriously.... or she wouldn't have waited with you. AND YES- WE WAIT WITH MEN WE FIND SPECIAL.

 

I just don't want you to blow a good thing for a wrong reason.

Sorry- I get defensive with the double standard stuff. It's not fair.

[cutegirl]

Holy Crap.

 

Guys and girls think so differently.

If I really like someone- I always wait to have sex with them.

 

 

Not at all, I'm a girl and I DO get bothered by a man's past. It makes me feel like he's tainted or used if he's had lots of partners. I don't want used goods.

[Florida]

Not at all, I'm a girl and I DO get bothered by a man's past. It makes me feel like he's tainted or used if he's had lots of partners. I don't want used goods.

 

Did you see the post I wrote for you on page 2 (#24)?

Let me know what you think!

I also avoid those guys that rack up the numbers but want the girls to be pure as snow. Whatever, I mean-what are THEY offering?

[cutegirl]

Cutegirl, the problem with just solely focusing on low numbers is that it still doesn't tell you the important things about his charachter. He may have commitment issues, maybe they were just random encounters.

 

For example, he may have only been with 3, but maybe he led them on and just was using them by lying about his intentions. Or maybe they were all one night stands and he could not be faitful to one woman so had a few random encounters.

 

I agree with you on most points, but I find that assessing their character works better than the alternative to hire a P.I. which still doesn't let you know about their character.

 

Conversations to find out if they had a one night stand, have they ever turned down sex if they didn't feel compatible with a woman, have they ever pursued a married woman, are very important to know for me, have they ever moved on to another woman before finishing things with the SO.

 

Add whatever you need to add to this list. It is about assessing their values through actions.

 

I find it is almost impossible for someone to keep up a facade about these things. It's always revealed in the course of many casual conversations if you know how to pry without seeming judgemental or as long as there is no sense of what the *right* answer is at the time, so as to illicit a free flowing dialogue.

 

If you ask probing questions again and again, and subtley reformatting them each time, like

"what did you like about her? "

"Why didn't you pursue with that particular girl? She seemed to like you."

" Did you ever get into a crazy situation before? What did you do? "

"do you think you could *do it* if you didn't feel much towards the girl but she came on to you?"

 

This usually is accomplished better in the beginning before the guy can suss out what you *want* to hear.

 

Ok, it's true that low numbers doesn't tell you about a person's character but if a person has a very HIGH number, I can safely assume that this person has a high sex drive (more likely to cheat) and likes VARIETY (more likely to cheat). Ok, so perhaps he seriously liked the people he slept with or perhaps it didn't work.

 

**** I would prefer a person to be alone if it didn't work out or be alone even if they had a lot of sexual desires and suprress their urges***

 

Why? Because it shows willpower and they will NEED that willpower if they are going to stay faithful for me. If they have a propensity towards variety then they will never be happy with me.

 

EVEN if I a guy ONLY had sex with women he truly felt compatible with and EVEN if he never pursued a married woman I still would be uncomfortable with the fact that he had plenty of sexual relations with a woman he WAS compatible with. That by itself is threatening. It means that he was COMPATIBLE WITH A LOT OF WOMEN.

 

I am a type of person where if I had to I can die alone and live off masturbation and porn for the rest of my life without a partner ever. It bothers me if a guy was intimate with people before me because it shows me that his needs are too strong to the point where he can't hold it and just jack off to porn. I know there are guys out there who are like 30 but can survive without having sex and only jerking off/watching porn.

 

It's not a moral thing to me, it's a jealousy thing PLUS I want someone who is similar to me. I don't want to compete with women from someone's past.

 

Also, I'm smart. I NEVER tell a guy what it is that I like in a guy so they can pretend to "be what I like". I might even pretend I LIKE guys who are promiscuous just to find out their true feelings.

 

If a guy has sex with a woman because he LIKED her, that's even worse, because it meant that he liked HER! And she's not me! Even if it's in the past it bothers me. I want it to be all about me.

Edited January 22, 2008 by cutegirl

[AAlike]

I will be turning 30 next year and I have never had a ONS and only had 2 sex partners my whole life. Not because of moral reasons (I actually don't have high morals, I'm very loose) but mainly because I'm shy and anti-social.

 

Well, clearly your problem really has a lot less to do with sexual issues than it does social anxieties then.

 

Anyways, I think it's OK for me to eliminate a guy due to number of sex partners because GUYS ARE DOING THE SAME TO WOMEN, such as the OP for instance. Why is it ok for guys to do this but not women? It's a double standard! Guys want to screw around but settle down with a "good girl". It's not fair. I actually don't really want to be a "good girl", I'd rather be the "Bad girl" with lots of past partners, but since I don't, I don't feel it's fair that men get to have DOUBLE STANDARDS while women don't.

 

I think that the point that I was making and that the general sentiment of most of the posters on here is that it's NOT okay for guys to do this - rather it's a reflection of a controlling point of view.

 

And another reason why I would be resentful of a guy's partners is because the guy got to have his fun while I didn't. I know it's self imposed and I could screw as much guys as I want to, but since I can't because I'm so introverted I would be jealous. I would feel like "Why did the guy get to have his fun while I didn't?" I would feel like it's not fair.

 

Again, this is more a social problem than a sexual one I think. and I'm guessing that given your introversion that you'd probably not be as "loose" as you think if the situations present themselves.

 

If a guy has had many partners I think it is more likely that he will want that thrill again since he has already experienced it firsthand. Love and compatibility is NEVER strong enough for a man to control his NATURAL URGE of procreating with as many women as possible in order to sow his seeds and ensure the procreation of the human species. I think a man's sexual urges override anything and everything including love, marriage vows etc, they'll do anything for that illicit thrill.

 

If you think this then you clearly haven't gotten over something from a past relationship or something to that effect, as this is certainly not true. I know that in my case, I couldn't even THINK about cheating on my girl.

 

If a guy has had many partners he will want to experience that again because he already knows how thrilling it is. If a guy HAS NOT has lots of partners then he will always wonder what it is like to have a lot of partners and he is also likely to cheat. So basically either way you can't win.

 

If a guy really loves you then any thrill that he got from previous casual sex should be easily eclipsed by what he gets from you, and any previous relationships should be in the past. If not, then you're probably not with the right person at the right time. As far as the other scenario, if this is the case then the guy is clearly not ready for a relationship.

 

The thing about being with a guy who had many partners is that you will always compete in your mind with the women from his past. I would always be wondering what those women looked like, if they were more attractive than me, it's just so much competition and so stressful.

 

again, I don't think that this is sexual issues so much as self-consciousness in general.

[Cobra_X30]

And yes, I truly feel that when we are intimate, that I'm competing with some previous phantom bf/lover she has previously had. Again it's all in my mind, I am my own worst enemey, and only I can overcome this, but it's much easier said than done.

 

I really hate sounding so lost, confused, ignorant, etc. than the way I'm coming off, but I cannot act in any other comforting way, as this is how I truly feel.

 

Chauncey,

 

Look I went and read through your other thread. Part of the reason you feel so insecure is because she is failing to make you feel special.

 

Some of that is your fault for failing to communicate your needs to her! I think that you are right now finding that if you don't push her... she won't put forth the effort to make you happy.

 

So, I really suggest that you either learn to push for what you want... and enjoy pushing, or find someone who is a more natural fit for your needs.

[StartingOver07]

I just have a hard time understanding if you love her... why is her past an issue at all. It's not a crazy past.....

 

I think her past is an issue, in part, because she willingly and quickly had sex with other men but with Chauncy she not only made him wait, but she does not reciprocate. If you read his posts in other forums, you will see that he pleasures her and then she goes to sleep. She does nothing to satisfy him. I suspect that this is what is making him assess her past behavior harshly. He is wondering why she found it so easy to give other guys a blow job, for instance, but won't even touch him.

 

He may be confusing two issues but I'd say his confusion is understandable to some extent.

 

What is less understandbale is why he remains with a woman who seems to have made it pretty clear that she does not have any sexual interest in him beyond what he can provide for her.

[AAlike]

Holy Crap.

 

Guys and girls think so differently.

If I really like someone- I always wait to have sex with them.

 

 

Hi D-Lish - very good post.

 

By this sentence, can I infer that you're more likely to wait it out with someone that you consider special than with someone that you're merely attracted to for a casual fling? I think that this is the one thing that drives guys up a wall, even though it's probably the case with us too.

 

It may seem that I'm playing both sides of the fence here, and the only reason is that even though I know that it's wrong in principle and I can give advice against it until I'm blue in the face, I've had the typical "guy issues" about my girl come up and I can safely say that it's unlike anything that I've ever felt before because there's absolutely no rhyme or reason to it, so I sympathize with Chauncey even though I know that his line of thinking is flawed.

 

I think that we as guys tend to think of women as more "emotional, sensitive" creatures - and that may be true WITHIN A RELATIONSHIP but should not have to be all of the time - as much as I know that it's a programmed way of thinking that I should object to in principle, I'm not immune to it either. and this effect is magnified when it's the girl that you love. it's kind of fairytale-ish, but we're all dumb cavemen at heart, and I think that a lot of our issues with girlfriend's pasts comes from the fact that all of us tend to objectify women that we're "just banging" or whatever - I don't think that it dawns on us that those women could very well be doing the same to us.

 

So when my girl told me about a past, completely spontaneous encoutner with three dudes, even though logically I could totally take it as an isolated, silly, failed experiment, I just couldn't process it emotionally. no way could this brilliant, sweet girl have done that - and what could have ever made her think that she would even slightly enjoy that? All I could think about was that situation from the "guy" point of view - that she was openly objectified, "used" if you will. and although that might have been the case, the part that it is so hard for guys to grasp is that she was most likely objectifying and "using" them in the same way. everyone was simply using the situation as a means to experiment, the names and faces don't matter, and that's how she sees it and is pretty confident that the guys see it - if anything she talked them into doing stuff that they were probably fairly embarrased about, as we know hetero guys reluctance to get into a situation like that...but as a guy we filter it through cultural learned perception, and you can't get over the guys thinking "what a slut" and high-fiving and stuff. not a good scene. Ideally, if this was truly something that was trivial, insignificant and something she never wanted to do again like she incinuated, she shouldn't have told me about it (hint, hint ladies) as I certainly would have never asked her "hey, any past foursomes?" but it is what it is.

 

and finally, just like you said, this girl wanted to "wait it out" with me - not for nearly as long as Chauncey's gal, but certainly more than the three days that she knew these guys (she eventually broke down early though because we were scary attracted to one another - hahaha). so again, your emotional reaction is "how could you be in a situation where you're directing traffic with strangers but are shy about getting naked in front of me" - and the truth is that many women are just as capable as certain guys of detatching emotion from sex if they simply want to have some fun or do something crazy. and us guys need to be able to reconcile that fact that our "sweet, pure, innocent" girl is perfectly capable of feeling horny and/or lustful and reaping the benefits of being single just as we did. Looking at my own past casual sex and how past it I am helped me to do that a lot - that's why it was only the group thing and not her other past partners that bothered me, but for a guy like Chauncey who doesn't have a frame of reference to compare it to in their own mind, it's tough.

[AAlike]

I think her past is an issue, in part, because she willingly and quickly had sex with other men but with Chauncy she not only made him wait, but she does not reciprocate. If you read his posts in other forums, you will see that he pleasures her and then she goes to sleep. She does nothing to satisfy him. I suspect that this is what is making him assess her past behavior harshly. He is wondering why she found it so easy to give other guys a blow job, for instance, but won't even touch him.

 

He may be confusing two issues but I'd say his confusion is understandable to some extent.

 

What is less understandbale is why he remains with a woman who seems to have made it pretty clear that she does not have any sexual interest in him beyond what he can provide for her.

 

if this is accurate, then bolt, past or no past.

[StartingOver07]

if this is accurate, then bolt, past or no past.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t140645/

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t136993/

[Chauncey]

I think her past is an issue, in part, because she willingly and quickly had sex with other men but with Chauncy she not only made him wait, but she does not reciprocate. If you read his posts in other forums, you will see that he pleasures her and then she goes to sleep. She does nothing to satisfy him. I suspect that this is what is making him assess her past behavior harshly. He is wondering why she found it so easy to give other guys a blow job, for instance, but won't even touch him.

 

He may be confusing two issues but I'd say his confusion is understandable to some extent.

 

What is less understandbale is why he remains with a woman who seems to have made it pretty clear that she does not have any sexual interest in him beyond what he can provide for her.

 

I think this has quite a bit to do with it as well, but to an extent. It's definitely something I've taken into consideration. However another focal point is the fact that none of these things were known until about 3 months ago. Considering we've been together for almost a year, it was hard to believe she had done these things, as obviously I've been with her since her "transformation". I never even suspected any of this.

 

It's all in my mind, and it is mental, and again I completely understand it is my problem, however I am not sure as to what steps I need to take to rectify my mistake and just forget about all of this.

 

And yes, it's difficult for me to believe whether or not she really finds me attractive physically, even though she tells me up and down. I have a good feeling it has something to do with her recent weight gain, but I don't understand that if that is the case, why she lets me continue to please her.

 

As strange as it sounds, I even thought the other night, how her ex-boyfriend is still jerking off to those photos she sent him, and it makes me even less sexually attracted to her...again I'm just being paranoid, but it just popped into my head.

 

I really am not crazy, believe it or not, I really just want to make things work, because like someone mentioned, I don't want to ruin a bad thing.

[StartingOver07]

I really am not crazy, believe it or not, I really just want to make things work, because like someone mentioned, I don't want to ruin a bad thing.

 

Freudian slip?

 

Seriously, Chauncey, what are this woman's good points? I have read most of your posts and you fail to ever say what it is that draws you to her.

 

As for her claim that her weight gain is what's standing in the way of your sex life, I would have an easier time accepting this if she refused to get naked with you at all, but she seems to be just fine with getting naked so that you can perform oral sex on her.

 

What does she do for you out of bed?

[Cobra_X30]

By this sentence, can I infer that you're more likely to wait it out with someone that you consider special than with someone that you're merely attracted to for a casual fling? I think that this is the one thing that drives guys up a wall, even though it's probably the case with us too.

 

I think that we as guys tend to think of women as more "emotional, sensitive" creatures - and that may be true WITHIN A RELATIONSHIP but should not have to be all of the time - as much as I know that it's a programmed way of thinking that I should object to in principle, I'm not immune to it either. and this effect is magnified when it's the girl that you love. it's kind of fairytale-ish, but we're all dumb cavemen at heart, and I think that a lot of our issues with girlfriend's pasts comes from the fact that all of us tend to objectify women that we're "just banging" or whatever - I don't think that it dawns on us that those women could very well be doing the same to us.

 

I know this wasnt addressed to me... but you bring up such very interesting points to further explore.

 

While I understand the basic reasoning for making a guy who you see some future with wait... Doesn't it demonstrate a complete lack of understanding in regards to general male thought processes? Playing it backwards it often makes a guy feel less wanted or attractive.

 

Also, does it really matter if women objectify men back in the types of situations you describe? Isn't it the idea that she allows herself to be viewed like that by other men the reason you get that guy reaction? How does her returning that make any difference?

 

Chauncey,

 

Why not try getting confrontational and aggressive with her! You seem so worried about losing her that it's killing your confidence. Tell her what you want and when you want it. See how she reacts to a more aggressive approach. Is that something possible for you to do?

[nicki]

Could it simply be that deep down you have some doubts about this woman and what kind of person she is?

 

Maybe finding out about her past only reinforces your own feelings that she isn't who you want her to be. It might not be so much of her past that bothers you, but her present.

 

What kind of women is she? Who has she been in the past? What do you predict she will do in the future?

 

I know that I've only had doubts about men when their behavior in the present is worrying me, or when I'm not sure they have learned from their past. I get scared that they will repeat the bad behavior.

 

I need to hear that their perspective has changed, as in "Oh, I did some stupid and crazy things when I was younger, " or "What I did back then was wrong and I would never do it again, especially not to you."

 

That kind of stuff. If she talks about the past and blows it off, then maybe you are worried that her perspective really hasn't changed so much, or she didn't learn from her experiences.

 

If I love a guy and I know he has the correct perspective about his past mistakes and expresses what he's learned from them, then there's not much I wouldn't forgive him for (excepting the big crimes.)

 

Anyway, I did have a guy admit once that he had been arrested in his youth and had been somewhat of a player. He went on to express that he wanted to be truthful with me. He also explained what he was thinking then, and what he thinks know.

 

In other words, I knew his core beliefs were different so I wasn't worried.

 

Hope this helps. I have a feeling that you are worried about this woman for reasons other than her past....and it's okay to focus on what bothers you about her NOW.

 

Personally, if someone is enjoying, but isn't returning, the favors in bed, I'd consider them very selfish indeed. Cut her off until there is reciprocity.

Edited January 22, 2008 by nicki

[Chauncey]

Freudian slip?

 

Seriously, Chauncey, what are this woman's good points? I have read most of your posts and you fail to ever say what it is that draws you to her.

 

As for her claim that her weight gain is what's standing in the way of your sex life, I would have an easier time accepting this if she refused to get naked with you at all, but she seems to be just fine with getting naked so that you can perform oral sex on her.

 

What does she do for you out of bed?

 

Heehee, yeah, I mean ruin a good thing.

 

We met my Junior year of college, as I attended a small university and we were in the same dept. together. I didn't really start speaking to her until my Senior year, and the very first day we hit it off immediately. We both are a bit unique, we both have the same sense of humor, we both enjoy alot of crazy and different things most people would laugh at. As strange as it sounds (based on what I've posted) I truly believe she is my soulmate...

 

She's extremely kind, loving, and very personable. Not to mention how gorgeous and ravishing she is. And as most of you have pointed out, she doesn't have nearly as a crazy past as some other gfs/women have, but I've never been with anyone who I feel this strong about, not to mention how much I have emotionally invested into the relationship, and I'm just afraid I have not risked too much knowing nothing will come out of it.

[D-Lish]

I think her past is an issue, in part, because she willingly and quickly had sex with other men but with Chauncy she not only made him wait, but she does not reciprocate. If you read his posts in other forums, you will see that he pleasures her and then she goes to sleep. She does nothing to satisfy him. I suspect that this is what is making him assess her past behavior harshly. He is wondering why she found it so easy to give other guys a blow job, for instance, but won't even touch him.

 

He may be confusing two issues but I'd say his confusion is understandable to some extent.

 

What is less understandbale is why he remains with a woman who seems to have made it pretty clear that she does not have any sexual interest in him beyond what he can provide for her.

 

No I didn't get all the background info outside this post.

I get enraged by the notion of the double sexual standard and that's what I focused on.

 

If that's the case- you're pleasuring her and she's never returning the favour, and this happens far too often.... Get out now.

 

A relationship should be reciprocal.... give and take equally.

If it hasn't yet been addressed- I'd do so. If it doesn't turn around after that discussion, it never will.

[AAlike]

I know this wasnt addressed to me... but you bring up such very interesting points to further explore.

 

Oh no problem, it's for anyone to discuss (pssst....if you can't tell yet, I'm still struggling with this a little bit on my end too, and although I don't want to start yet another girlfriend's past thread, I'm kind of writing this as a response to myself as much as OP, sort of a way for me to think it out).

 

While I understand the basic reasoning for making a guy who you see some future with wait... Doesn't it demonstrate a complete lack of understanding in regards to general male thought processes? Playing it backwards it often makes a guy feel less wanted or attractive.

 

very, very good point but I don't know if there's that much thought put into it. I think it's more just a natural reaction that you're going to care a lot less when it is for purely physical reasons than someone with whom you want it to be perfect - it's almost like rehearsal versus the actual play, you know? and that's definitely not gender specific. when it comes down to it, love sex and casual sex are almost two entirely different things for a large part of the population, male or female, at least as far as intent and impact. Therefore, having a completely different outlook on the two for that portion of the population makes sense. You don't care if casual sex is sloppy, mundane, or even if you don't get off, but if one of those applies to your first try at love sex with someone, you're mortified...so you're more self-conscious at the outset and more apt to make sure that the mood and conditions are perfect. For those people, male or female, that cannot, have not or choose not to make that distinction between the types of sex, this concept is probably tough to grasp. Just remember if you're one of those people - complaining about not experiencing casual sex while you're having love sex is like a BMX racer complaining that he never got to ride a banana bike. there's a reason why even the biggest player types and/or "sluts" eventually settle down - all of your casual experiences become inconsequential. so to cutegirl and chauncey (and myself, and males in general) - this should be a non-issue.

 

Also, does it really matter if women objectify men back in the types of situations you describe? Isn't it the idea that she allows herself to be viewed like that by other men the reason you get that guy reaction? How does her returning that make any difference?

 

oooh another very nice point. I guess a better way to put it is this - when hearing about the situation and applying it to her, HER perspective should matter, not the guys'. I never even GAVE her a perspective, let alone hearing what it was - my assessment was simply "those guys probably thought you were a whore" and that was it. her reply was quite simple - "so what? what does it matter what they thought? it certainly wasn't about them." basically, she told me "I wanted to have one group sex experience while I was unattached, and I wanted to do it out of a relationship so as not to hurt anyone, and the situation just presented itself at that time - it sucked but I don't regret finding that out - who cares what the guys thought, guys objectify women all the time, and I'm SOOOO past it" and she correctly pointed out that the only one that has given it even an iota of thought since it happened is probably me.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it shouldn't have mattered at all what the guys were thinking. It should only have mattered to me what she was thinking, which was what I told you. Again, this is one isolated incident - if she REPEATEDLY put herself in a situation in which she was objectified or disrespected, that'd be different - but doing something once to act on lust and/or curiousity without worrying about that should not be a big deal.

 

Chauncey,

 

Why not try getting confrontational and aggressive with her! You seem so worried about losing her that it's killing your confidence. Tell her what you want and when you want it. See how she reacts to a more aggressive approach. Is that something possible for you to do?

 

yeah, I think that's your only recourse at this point, Chauncey. At this point I think you have absolutely nothing to lose, and drastic measures are necessary. Although sex isn't everything, it's pretty vital to sustaining a relationship, especially in your early 20's. no relationship at all is far preferable to one in which you feel undesired!

[Chauncey]

Well everyone I did it. I confronted her about my feelings. I mentioned how I've been thinking lately about those photos I found, and how I for some reason can't get the idea out of my mind that some douchebag has them and probably services himself everyday to them. She said she was sorry, and that there was nothing she could do about it. She said that it was a long time ago, and that she regrets ever doing it. She asked me what she could do about it, and I obviously told her nothing.

 

I went on to talk to her about a few more things (see my other thread in the Sex section of these forums) which made her pretty angry, sad, and offended. To say the least it did not go as well as planned. I think the majority of my problem is that I'm so sexually frustrated that I'm willing to take it out on her and her past, and that is definitely not right. I'm no better than any other of her former douchebag boyfriends, but still, it's so confusing to me...

[AAlike]

Well everyone I did it. I confronted her about my feelings. I mentioned how I've been thinking lately about those photos I found, and how I for some reason can't get the idea out of my mind that some douchebag has them and probably services himself everyday to them. She said she was sorry, and that there was nothing she could do about it. She said that it was a long time ago, and that she regrets ever doing it. She asked me what she could do about it, and I obviously told her nothing.

 

I went on to talk to her about a few more things (see my other thread in the Sex section of these forums) which made her pretty angry, sad, and offended. To say the least it did not go as well as planned. I think the majority of my problem is that I'm so sexually frustrated that I'm willing to take it out on her and her past, and that is definitely not right. I'm no better than any other of her former douchebag boyfriends, but still, it's so confusing to me...

 

Chauncey - I really think that you have two separate issues, and perhaps you're confusing/projecting them.

 

One is the issue with her past, which is something that she cannot remedy or change at this point, and yes, you will eventually just have to be able to deal with at some point and you probably WILL be able to deal with as the past becomes more distant and you work out the other kinks in your relationship.

 

The other issue is the stuff that you've hinted at about her selfishness and/or reluctance in the bedroom. This is a real issue - and you need to bring it up in a manner completely separate from your qualms about her past, and I'd say more in a questioning manner than a demanding one, so that she's not already on the defensive when you talk to her about it. And just tell her the truth as calmly as possible.

 

You are right - you're focusing on something that's an easy target instead of confronting why you're really mad. I think this is a very common thing, especially with the whole "girlfriend's past" problem - usually it just hints at a deeper seated issue. You're not going to be able to let go of the past until you work out the real issues.