The first step is admitting that bf has a problem

[Kamille]

I think my boyfriend might be an alcoholic. We've been talking since the beginning about the fact that he drinks a lot more then I do. He will drink alone, frequently, which is something that I find worrysome. I also often find that he centers events around alcohol consumption.

 

He maintains that he isn't an alcoholic because he can stop whenever he wants to. And has proceeded to demonstrate to me that he doesn't need alcool in his life by cutting down dramatically on his drinking.

 

Except that now, when he does drink, he goes on a binge. He cannot simply have two or three glasses like he used to. I, again, found this worrysome but didn't mention anything (it was the holydays after all).

 

I don't really know what to do. In spite of this I want to stay with him. Please take this in consideration. I am not asking for advice on whether or not I should stay with him, I am asking for advice on what to expect and how to handle this.

 

Up until now I wasn't really sure what his drinking meant - or could potentially mean for us as a couple. But last Tuesday I did get a taste of it. I was leaving the day after for a week long assigment in another city (I am in that city right now) and he had a tough day at work. So I planned a nice evening (as some of you know ) to help him forget about his day and for us to have a nice time before I leave.

 

Except he had a different way of forgetting about his day. He got home and two hours later he was passed out drunk on the couch. He apologized the morning after, at the wee hours of the morning when I finally managed to wake him up before leaving for the airport, and all I could say was that I was disapointed.

 

I haven't heard from him since, in spite of writing him a message and trying to get a hold of him by phone.

 

I don't know how to approach this. To me it is clear that drinking was the issue, but when he apologized he apologized for being really tired (that's kind of when it really dawned on me that he has a problem).

 

In the email I didn't mention anything (I don't think it's too major to be discussed via email).

 

I'm glad I did. I was reading in the litterature that criticizing an addict for his addiction only allows them to shift the grounds onto the conflict and not the addiction.

 

But how should I approach this?

[amaysngrace]

It's hard to do. I'm there myself. I've done everything I can think of to "handle" it but sometimes I feel like it's still not enough for me. He's not enough for me. And I deserve to have a partner who is there for me mentally whenever I should need him to be. That's so not the case.

 

It's like you are in a love triangle, and alcohol is the third party involved.

 

Plan on being second to it for much of the time.

 

 

 

PS...how does your jaw feel?

[Kamille]

PS...how does your jaw feel?

 

We never even got to that part of the plan. GRRRR. I made him dinner, where he was already looking at me cross-eyed and too drunk to have any kind of conversation. After, he poured himself another drink and proceeded to pass out on the couch.

 

I feel like the scotch won you know? So there I was thinking: hmmm, I should have given him a bj the minute he got home... But really, how could I have known he'd be out by 9:30 and also, I don't think it is up to me to accomodate his lifestyle.

 

This is terrifying... Do you have children? I mean, it's ok if it's just me, but I can't imagine having children with somebody who can become so completely unavailable like that.

 

Oh, and there is a typo in the original message. I meant that I feel this issue is too big to be discussed by e-mail.

[blind_otter]

I have similar issues with my SO - he binge drinks about 2-3 times a month, although so far NYE was D-Day and he has promised to go back to AA, go back to counseling, and never drink another drop (he has yet to go to AA or schedule a counseling session, though......) What's worse is I'm pregnant....

 

I admit that I've been a harpy about the alcohol. I criticize him when he drinks. I bitch and moan. I play the guilt trip -- to the extreme. I quit, it was hard, but I made it through...why can't he?? I haven't approached the issue in the most constructive way.

 

He means well. He seems to sincerely want to stay sober, if not for his own sake -- for the sake of our baby and for me. But I don't think that's enough to keep him sober. He even talked about how he was going to drink again after the baby's born, and I jumped down his throat when he said that. I want him to admit to himself that he has a problem. Superficially he does...but I don't think that's enough.

[Star Gazer]

Video tape him when he's drunk. Show him the footage. Worked for me an ex...

[Florida]

If you change the circumstances he will change too.

 

Empty half the bottles and replace with water, at his house too.

 

If he has friends who encourage his drinking, make sure to have alternate plans for him whenever you hear about them coming around for him.

 

Be vigilant about it, try every trick in your arsenal to steer him away from the alcohol.

What about an upfront conversation where you just request he not have more than 1 or 2 while he is with you-insist on it!

[sb129]

If you change the circumstances he will change too.

 

Empty half the bottles and replace with water, at his house too.

 

If he has friends who encourage his drinking, make sure to have alternate plans for him whenever you hear about them coming around for him.

 

Be vigilant about it, try every trick in your arsenal to steer him away from the alcohol.

What about an upfront conversation where you just request he not have more than 1 or 2 while he is with you-insist on it!

 

I think this approach is underhand and almost certainly bound to breed resentment on his part towards you for trying to "control" him.

Especially the apart about making alternative plans to get him to avoid his friends.

 

The resulting resentment will probably only make him more secretive about drinking and will break down the lines of communication between you about this topic.

 

I worked with an alcoholic for a couple of years, and the more her husband challenged her about it in a confrontational way (eg emptying bottles down the sink), the greater lengths she went to to conceal her drinking habits.

 

Unfortunately, true alcoholism is like any other addiction- the person has to take responsibility, admit they have a problem, and WANT to stop it. My ex work colleague thinks that her consumption (average 2L of wine a day, more in weekends) is totally normal, and that everyone does it.

Another alcoholic I know only took steps towards rehab when his wife left him taking their new baby with her- it took that much for him to realise how bad he was.

 

Firstly you need to have a face to face talk to him about it.

If he doesn't think he has a problem, at this stage all you can do is let him know how disappointed you were at his recent episode of behaviour, and let him know that you are concerned about his alcohol comsumption, and leave it at that for now.

 

Nagging him won't work. It may drive a wedge between your R. He has displayed that he is capable of listening to your concerns and acting upon them by cutting down in the past- so give him the benefit of the doubt that he can continue to do so, for now.

 

I am sad to hear this Kamille, I thought things were going so well between you. All hope isn't lost- if you communicate well with him, there is a chance that he could turn this around.

[Kamille]

He means well. He seems to sincerely want to stay sober, if not for his own sake -- for the sake of our baby and for me. But I don't think that's enough to keep him sober. He even talked about how he was going to drink again after the baby's born, and I jumped down his throat when he said that. I want him to admit to himself that he has a problem. Superficially he does...but I don't think that's enough.

 

Yeah, maybe like my bf he thinks that since he can stop when he wants to, he doesn't have a problem. And I know bf is far from the day when he could consider not having another drop of alcohol.

 

I don't know exactly where to draw the lines with all this and I have pretty much done what you have said Sb : he knows from a previous conversation that I am concerned, and he also knows that I am disapointed at how the evening went.

 

I know that what matters most is whether he thinks he has a problem. It has to come from him. In all other aspects of his life and he is a very responsible, very organized, very honest and very open person. I certainly want the communication line to stay open on this. I want to be able to continue talking about my concerns just as I want him to know that I am there for him no matter what. I want us to be able to negotiate this.

 

If this moves foward, there are times when I will need him to be there, regardless of how badly his day went. I'm thinking of asking him to at least negotiate binging (I'll just say getting drunk) with me before going full speed ahead and doing it. Does that make sense? Or is that enabling? I mean, I just want him to take full responsibility for his drinking, which also means taking responsibility for how it affects me.

[Ariadne]

Argh,

 

Why can't people just be cool and do whatever they have to do and not depend on other people?

 

Yeah, if he ever wants to help you then fine, if he can't because he's drunk then let him sleep. It's easy.

 

Ok, so you had a nice dinner and then he went to sleep and didn't pay any attention to you.

 

Just look at him and say, bah. Or if you really wanted to have sex, figure out when he is getting a bit too drunk and jump him right there.

 

But people can't do that, they want other people to conform to what they think they should be like etc etc.

 

If you don't like him walk away, at least you know you can do that,

 

Ariadne

[sb129]

Yes, it makes sense, and I think you have the right to be able to discuss this with him. Ie, with the situation from the other day, you could have said I am planning something really nice for us to do tonight, and I have a surprise for you at the end of it! (or did you already say that?)

 

I think you have every right to expect him not to get so hammered it effectively ruins your time together, but you have to word it carefully so he doesn't get all defensive and feel controlled.

 

You are absolutely right it has to come from him, and that he should be taking responsibility for his actions. However, if he doesn't know his actions hurt you the other night, he will continue to think thats OK.

 

It sounds like you have let him know how you feel about the other night, I guess you have to sit tight and wait fro his reply, see what he says and take it from there.

[Ariadne]

I was watching this show on tv called "true life" about this 21 year old girl that was drunk 24/7.

 

But she was really cute and cool and all, just wasted.

 

She says: I'm not gonna quit, quitting is for losers!

[sb129]

Argh,

 

Why can't people just be cool and do whatever they have to do and not depend on other people?

 

Yeah, if he ever wants to help you then fine, if he can't because he's drunk then let him sleep. It's easy.

 

Ok, so you had a nice dinner and then he went to sleep and didn't pay any attention to you.

 

Just look at him and say, bah. Or if you really wanted to have sex, figure out when he is getting a bit too drunk and jump him right there.

 

But people can't do that, they want other people to conform to what they think they should be like etc etc.

 

If you don't like him walk away, at least you know you can do that,

 

Ariadne

 

I think its fair enough that she is p**sed that he was so boozed he fell asleep during a nice evening she had planned because they wouldn't be seeing eachother for a week. Its not like it was just any old night after work. Where does it end? Does she have to wait until he misses a scoail event because he is passed out in bed- this scenario is worse, because other friends/ people will be witness to it.

 

At least this way she is letting him know early on and the FIRST time it happens that she isn't cool if him getting drunk appears to be a higher priority than spending time with her.

 

If you don't tell someone that their behaviour annoys you the first time they do it, by "letting it go" you are setting yourself up for it repeating itself, and further disappointment.

 

You can't do whatever you want whenever you want when you are in a relationship. If you want to do whatever you want whenever you want, you might as well stay single. A relationship is about TWO people. You HAVE to take the other persons feelings and wants and desires into account, otherwise the R is doomed.

This doesn't mean that one person has to CONTROL the other one, but if your behaviour upsets the other person, then you should take responsibility for it.

[sb129]

I was watching this show on tv called "true life" about this 21 year old girl that was drunk 24/7.

 

But she was really cute and cool and all, just wasted.

 

She says: I'm not gonna quit, quitting is for losers!

 

As someone who has seen people lose their lives to alcoholism, I think this is a terribly irresponsible thing to say. I have also seen first hand the amount of destruction alcohol can have when its the third person in a R.

 

I am not teetotal, but I know my limits, and to me if getting wasted all the time is more important to you than spending quality time with your partner, then there is a problem.

 

Sure, its not a "big deal" right now, and is relatively minor. I wonder how many people who have lost their Rs to alcoholism out there wish they had acted sooner, when the first little signs started to show, instead of "letting it go" until the problem had escalated to the point where it was impossible to do anything about it.

[Kamille]

Sb thank you because that is exactly how I feel and how I also think about relationship. And the thing is, so does he.

 

And no, I didn't tell him, when he got home, that I had planned a special evening for us, that which I will be sure to do next time. I had thought it was implicit, since we were going to be apart for a week.

 

But implicits are the ennemy of relationships. I've been hanging around LS long enough to have figured that one out. Often though, we don't realize the differences between what we think goes without saying until something happens. Which is why I think it is really important that bf and I discuss this when I get back home. It will be a tricky conversation, but I will try my best to listen to him and respect what he has to say.

 

Ariadne, I know some people are more comfortable in relationships where there is total independance and respect of the other's space. I am not one of those people, especially since bf and I have agreed that we were both looking for an R that might lead to a family (raising children). I think that to raise children with someone you need to know how to communicate and compromise. And you especially need to negotiate the actions that have an impact on your partner and the family. I have seen too many of my friends getting frustrated over doing all the parenting work because they couldn't count on their partner to get myself involved in such a situation.

 

He needs to show me that he can control his binges before I consider taking the R further.

[sb129]

Sb thank you because that is exactly how I feel and how I also think about relationship. And the thing is, so does he.

 

And no, I didn't tell him, when he got home, that I had planned a special evening for us, that which I will be sure to do next time. I had thought it was implicit, since we were going to be apart for a week.

 

But implicits are the ennemy of relationships. I've been hanging around LS long enough to have figured that one out. Often though, we don't realize the differences between what we think goes without saying until something happens. Which is why I think it is really important that bf and I discuss this when I get back home. It will be a tricky conversation, but I will try my best to listen to him and respect what he has to say.

 

This is good. You have recognised your mistake in the situation, and are prepared to admit it to him and discuss it with him.

When you have the conversation, admitting your own part (however small) in the communication breakdown will help keep it neutral, and it will sound less like an attack, so hopefully his response will be less defensive, and you will be able to work things out rationally.

 

Ariadne, I know some people are more comfortable in relationships where there is total independance and respect of the other's space. I am not one of those people, especially since bf and I have agreed that we were both looking for an R that might lead to a family (raising children). I think that to raise children with someone you need to know how to communicate and compromise. And you especially need to negotiate the actions that have an impact on your partner and the family. I have seen too many of my friends getting frustrated over doing all the parenting work because they couldn't count on their partner to get myself involved in such a situation.

 

I am not sure a R where total independence is possible. If so, whats the point of being together?

 

I also agree with you re: children, and the bolded bit above is very important. Wonderboy and I have had several discussions regarding this, and thankfully are completely on the same page at the moment.

He needs to show me that he can control his binges before I consider taking the R further.

 

This is going to be the most difficult part of your discussion. To let him know that without it sounding like you are delivering an ultimatum is going to be tough.

 

I have faith that you can do it Kamille, your communication skills are pretty good, and you are a rational reasonable person.

[Ariadne]

Hi,

 

its fair enough that she is p**sed that he was so boozed he fell asleep

 

Then is double the trouble, she'll have to piss off.

 

she is letting him know early on and the FIRST time it happens that she isn't cool

 

I agree with telling him, I don't like it when you are so drunk (so that when she leaves him he'll know why, because they were not compatible in their tastes).

 

If you don't tell someone that their behaviour annoys you the first time they do it, by "letting it go" you are setting yourself up for it repeating itself, and further disappointment.

 

I will most likely repeat.

 

What do you think you'll gain by telling him? That he will quit for you?

 

I'm not into controlling people, I'm into accepting people for what they are. If you don't like what they are then leave.

[Ariadne]

Hey,

 

relationships where there is total independance and respect of the other's space. I am not one of those people

 

In this case, maybe you should look for some other guy.

 

It bothers you that he smokes, it bothers you that he takes forever to come with bj, and now it bothers you that he drinks...

 

Yet, you expect to reform him, to turn into something he's not.

[Kamille]

Hi,

 

its fair enough that she is p**sed that he was so boozed he fell asleep

 

Then is double the trouble, she'll have to piss off.

 

she is letting him know early on and the FIRST time it happens that she isn't cool

 

I agree with telling him, I don't like it when you are so drunk (so that when she leaves him he'll know why, because they were not compatible in their tastes).

 

If you don't tell someone that their behaviour annoys you the first time they do it, by "letting it go" you are setting yourself up for it repeating itself, and further disappointment.

 

I will most likely repeat.

 

What do you think you'll gain by telling him? That he will quit for you?

 

I'm not into controlling people, I'm into accepting people for what they are. If you don't like what they are then leave.

 

I don't believe in that philosophy. To me it sounds like equating finding a partner to shopping. What I do believe in is relationships and the fact that relationships can strenghten you and help you grow. I also believe relationships ARE by definition the meeting of two people.

 

Even if you found someone that was exactly how you wanted them to be, there would still be an implicit, in a relationship wich was based on being control-free (or compromise-free), that neither partner should therefore ever change. But the fact is, people do change, their situations in life change, their needs change.

 

And no, I don't expect him to quit, or even agree with me that he has a problem (well I don't actually want to raise that topic again). I just want to be taken into account in spite of our different perceptions of the role alcohol plays in both our lives. You're right, it is controlling - but it is only so because his actions in regards to drinking affect US. My request to be taken into account is a way for me to feel that I can count on him when it matters. I believe that in love there are three entities: him, me and 'us' and commitment is making sure that 'us' is always taken into account.

 

I feel that an important part of relationships are about needs and he does also have needs that he communicates and I take into account (he's a lot more organised then I am, and I do respect his requests for cleanliness and how he organizes things). Control (I might prefer the term compromise) isn't a one way street.

[Ariadne]

Hi,

 

but it is only so because his actions in regards to drinking affect US.

 

They affect you because you are not cool.

 

Just be independent and let it be.

 

Run your own show.

 

If you don't like it, leave.

[sb129]

What do you think you'll gain by telling him? That he will quit for you?

 

I'm not into controlling people, I'm into accepting people for what they are. If you don't like what they are then leave.

 

I disagree. Kamille has summarised exactly why below.

I don't believe in that philosophy. To me it sounds like equating finding a partner to shopping. What I do believe in is relationships and the fact that relationships can strenghten you and help you grow. I also believe relationships ARE by definition the meeting of two people.

 

A good R can help you change for the better.

Example: my R has helped me be less selfish. I think that my BF has done me an enormous favour rather than just accept my previous selfishness.

Its improved me as a person AND our R.

If he had just walked, i wouldn't have had a chance to change myself for the better, and we both would have lost something that, with a little work, is the best thing thats ever happened to us.

 

A rigid philosophy like yours doesn't allow for change. And it doesn't seem to be having much success, does it?

 

Hey,

 

relationships where there is total independance and respect of the other's space. I am not one of those people

 

In this case, maybe you should look for some other guy.

 

It bothers you that he smokes, it bothers you that he takes forever to come with bj, and now it bothers you that he drinks...

 

Yet, you expect to reform him, to turn into something he's not.

 

No, she doesn't. She just wants to let him know that some things that he does that might be OK if he were single are not OK in a R. She has admitted her own fault in the matter. If she doesn't talk to him about it, he won't have the opportunity to tell her HIS feelings on the matter, which are just as important.

 

I feel that an important part of relationships are about needs and he does also have needs that he communicates and I take into account (he's a lot more organised then I am, and I do respect his requests for cleanliness and how he organizes things). Control (I might prefer the term compromise) isn't a one way street.

 

Its EXACTLY about compromise. Which is an important part of a good R.

If you want to carry on doing whatever you want regardless of other peoples feelings, STAY SINGLE.

 

 

 

Even if you found someone that was exactly how you wanted them to be, there would still be an implicit, in a relationship wich was based on being control-free (or compromise-free), that neither partner should therefore ever change. But the fact is, people do change, their situations in life change, their needs change.

 

This is so true. And if you are going to stay with someone long term, you have to know that you both have the ability to change and grow together, accept the changes in eachother, and address issues and iron out conflict together.

 

If you learn how to deal with conflict well early on, it can only be a good thing.

 

My request to be taken into account is a way for me to feel that I can count on him when it matters. I believe that in love there are three entities: him, me and 'us' and commitment is making sure that 'us' is always taken into account.

 

I think that this is an entirely reasonable expectation of a R.

[Ariadne]

Well,

 

Example: my R has helped me be less selfish. I think that my BF has done me an enormous favour rather than just accept my previous selfishness.

 

He probably inspired you. I'm all for that.

 

If you want to carry on doing whatever you want regardless of other peoples feelings, STAY SINGLE.

 

People's feelings are not my business. I don't lead my life to conform to other people's feelings. That's dumb.

 

But the fact is, people do change, their situations in life change, their needs change.

 

People change. They change because they want to, it's something intrinsic.

[sb129]

Well,

 

Example: my R has helped me be less selfish. I think that my BF has done me an enormous favour rather than just accept my previous selfishness.

 

He probably inspired you. I'm all for that.

 

But he did have to call me on it a few times. How is that different from "not accepting me for who I am?"

 

 

If you want to carry on doing whatever you want regardless of other peoples feelings, STAY SINGLE.

 

People's feelings are not my business. I don't lead my life to conform to other people's feelings. That's dumb.

 

A relationship is ALL about feelings. You don't have to conform to everyone elses feelings to have respect for them.

 

 

People change. They change because they want to, it's something intrinsic.

 

So maybe Kamilles BF wants to change, she just needs to talk to him to get the ball rolling. The jury is still out on that one, because she won't get to see him for a few more days.

[Kamille]

Hi,

 

but it is only so because his actions in regards to drinking affect US.

 

They affect you because you are not cool.

 

Just be independent and let it be.

 

Run your own show.

 

If you don't like it, leave.

 

Well I guess the first step to a healthy relationship is finding someone who has the same ideas about relationships as you do. And since my bf does share my beliefs about relationships, then it really doesn't matter whether or not I am cool.

 

Sb, I totally agree with everything you posted. And I think it explains why you are in a happy relationship and soon to be engaged. I am not looking for a relationship that will mirror me, I am looking for one that offers support, comfort, security while also helping me grow.

 

I have my faults too and bf does point them out and we discuss it. We are entirely open to each other, neither one of us on the defensive EXCEPT of course, on the topic of cigarettes and alcohol. I think it's normal for people here to reduce my R to the issues I have, but I am certainly not ready to walk away from a relationship that offers me so much. So far, the door is still open for me to discuss my fears about the role of alcohol in our relationship and I value that open-ness enough to see where things go.

 

I was telling sb in a pm that at least bf will know that if we don't work out, it'll be because we are truly incompatible, not because one of us walked away the minute they disagreed with the other's actions because of some 'perfect match' philosophy.

[sb129]

My R is happy, but it isn't "perfect". It has its own ups and downs as I was telling you. I am happy about that though, because it has room to grow and adapt.

 

We talk about said ups and downs quite a bit, and we are trying to get realistic ideas of eachothers expectations of marriage before we actually get married!

 

We are set to go through some big changes before our wedding, and we need to keep communicating so we can make the transitions as smoothly as possible.

 

Communication is key! (cliched, but true)

[Ariadne]

Hey,

 

But he did have to call me on it a few times. How is that different from "not accepting me for who I am?"

 

He probably just pointed it out, without expectations and let it be. He still liked you despite of that.

 

A relationship is ALL about feelings. You don't have to conform to everyone elses feelings to have respect for them.

 

I respect people's feelings. I also expect them to own their feelings. I'm not in any way responsible for that, and if they think I am, they are stupid.

 

she just needs to talk to him to get the ball rolling

 

Yes, it's all up to him.