How much compromise do you make

[Great Gazoo]

How much should one have to give in a marriage? Where do you draw the line? I had a huge fight with my wife based really on this. I find I have been more than willing to compromise on many sides of this marriage but in some ways I have the feeling I have got nothing in return.

 

Since we had our still born and then the ectopic deal things have never been the same and we BOTH agreed on this. She sees me as very unhappy with her for the fact she can't have any children since the ectopic it seems she can no longer get pregnant and is in the process of finding out why.

 

I am unhappy in how life's event have turned out but I do not blame her but at the same time I have no control either. After all this happened I helped her move on and supported her to take on a new job but since then she did move on but to the point I don't think she rarely looks back at our lives together or how much it hurt me.

 

Instead now she spends her time going to work conventions and going out, leaving little time for the marriage itself. Never mind the text messages and whatever else that was. In some ways I feel left behind and used. When she says she will not give her present life up no matter what, says she is perfectly happy but that our past experience with trying to have a child is the only thing that upsets her and makes her sad, what am I to think? She tells me I could find another girl and maybe I would be happier, I tell her what if I fell for said girl, she says she understands that risk but wants me to be happy. She also says she will always love me and we will be friends and wants me in her life. She went on to say that part of the reason she stays married is for the simple fact she would feel bad for leaving me alone and worries what I might do to myself. I tried to explain to her that I feel that way already but I don't think she understands. I think now more than ever I feel very alone. There is NO one to back me up and support me as I do for her.

 

She also told me if they find out what is wrong with her that she is not sure if she even wants to attempt to have a child again because of what happened and leaves it to me if I can accept that. We looked into many different angles about adoption but it is not easy, whoever thinks it is has NO idea what they are talking about unless you want to deal with a damaged school aged child, then it is easy.

 

So finally at the end of this month she needs some surgery and I was to go with her, it is about 1000 miles away where they can do this surgery and it has nothing to do with trying to have a child . I raised the point why should I go? I really wonder why I should, I care about her that is why I guess. She flipped out crying and saying who is going to go with me, WHO, when I mentioned I might not go and I had to quickly say I will go with her because she kills me when she reacts like that. As she will cry and say no one loves her and she wishes she was normal, as in having children, she is stupid etc...all the things she said in the past when things went wrong. I told her I will go no matter what as I still love her, which I do but I still feel like a sucker like I feel I was before because I gave everything I had, in my heart and soul to keep her up and I will do the same thing here and when she heals from the surgery she will go back to what her life is now with little regard to what it was.

 

We both are hoping and think this trip and the time away from home and the problems will do us good. I really hope so. I just feel I am trying to hold on to the marriage more than her but I can't point the finger at her because of what happened is not her fault.

[blind_otter]

Losing a baby is a devestating event - for both parties...and people deal with that grief differently. It sounds almost like your wife is avoiding dealing with her grief. And you sound like you're still in a bad place, yourself. How long ago did these events happen? Have you talked to a grief counselor? How about marriage counseling? There seems to be a disconnect between you and your W...I'm not surprised, given the harsh events that you both had to deal with back to back.

 

I had two miscarriages in my past, and with each successive one I was more grief-stricken and it was more difficult to come to terms with things. I have to say I probably wasn't "right" until a year or more after the incidents....I sought counseling and it has been a great relief to me. Maybe you should broach the subject of counseling with your W?

[Great Gazoo]

The still born was 2 years ago and the ectopic about a year and a half but it is the infertility issue now that is killings us also. I for myself can't decide if I could stay in this marriage with the knowledge of never having kids and she knows this and that is the part that makes her very unhappy.

 

It just seems that at his time we both feed each other unhappiness. I personally think she is right/ ok now but she is also a different person and I am trying to find my way again into this marriage and accept who she is now and I don't know if that is possible. I just don't think things will ever be the same. She lost her child like innocence she once had and that is the one thing I loved the most about her.

[Kasan]

I remember your thread from October well GG and I am really sorry that not much has changed for you.

 

The last that you wrote in November was that you both had come to some kind of truce. What changed?

 

Did you ever fully deal with her EA with her boss? Has anything change there?

 

I know that the situation with your baby was two years ago, but she is still grieving this horrible loss. (not to say that you aren't) Factor into this equation an etopic pregnancy and fertility treatments, I can only guess at the toll this has taken on her body. Fertility treatments are so tough on the body. I can certainly understand her reluctance to consider another pregnancy. To be pregnant and get your hopes up again is a huge leap of faith. I can't begin to tell you how the sorrow of a lost child turns into anger, and self doubt wondering if you will ever be able to be a mother, knowing how disappointed and heartbroken your husband is. For some, it's just to much of a risk. Please deal with this now, or it will forever be a problem in your marriage.

 

If your wife is flying 1000 miles to have a surgery, it sounds pretty serious to me--there shouldn't be any question in your mind--you need to be there. There is nothing to debate.

 

I told you in your other thread that you both need to resolve this, as it is slowly eroding your marriage. Three months have come and gone and nothing has changed. One of you needs to step up and make some hard decisions about where you are going with this marriage. I think that it needs to be you.

 

If you are serious about saving your marriage, I would check out marriagebuilders.com and/or divorcebusting.com

 

What the both of you are going through right now sounds more than just compromising.

[Great Gazoo]

Nothing really changed in some ways about the truce, it was based on the fact if she could have children. The one thing she did mention now that she never did before was how she now feels about trying to have a child. I understand and know everything that she went through, I was there with her and I went through it also. To me it was just something very new that she said and it changes everything and brings a need for answers very quick.

 

I am going with her, I told her I would go for her for the simple fact I still care. About the EA thing, I let that go, she told me a few thing and I believed her about the facts, I trust her if that is what you are getting at.

 

It is she has changed and I have not, her live has changed in a different direction than mine and I feel it is me that has to decide if I am going to change mine as well. The only other solution is for us to both go our separate ways.

 

In some ways we both care and worry about each other and what will happen to him/her if we split up that we just don't want to let go.

 

I do remember you advice from the other thread and I thank you for it, I will check those sites out and see if they are any use.

[dropdeadlegs]

I really feel for you. I was married and suffered through a much wanted stillborn child. I'm not sure anything can be so traumatic to a marriage.

 

I see how supportive you have been. For your wife to feel "at fault" about both pregnancies is normal. I can understand her need to not go there again. I can also understand your need to do just that, barring any medical advice not to.

 

The problem is obvious. I wish the solution was so clear.

 

Have either of you had any counseling? I didn't, we, didn't, at least not concerning that issue, but we were also very willing to try and try again. Our desires were the same. And they were complete.

 

GG, Your sorrow is saddening. I hope you and your wife can overcome this.

[Bobby NoBrains]

I'm sorry to hear about everything you have and are going through. Without knowing too much of the situation, I can say a few things.

 

Obviously the two of you are not communicating very well. You're saying A and she hears B, she's saying C and you're hearing D. I don't think she doesn't care about you, she does. But maybe she has still not healed from the things that have happened. Maybe you haven't healed at all and you're tired of having an open wound and being a supportive spouse. You guys need to sit down and talk to each other over a few weeks (this will never get solved in a day). Both of you come across as loving caring people who are suffering differently and not able to reach out to each other in the right manner that is needed by the other. I'm not saying you're not doing what you can, I'm saying it's not helping to get over things, it *may* need to be done differently. And she doesn't seem to be doing you any good, and you need to get that across to her effectively. Sometimes helping your SO get over their pain helps you get over yours also. Maybe that might work for her. Consider going in for counseling, you really need that alternative.

 

Hang in there and don't become despondent. If things are at their worst, they can only get better

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Great Gazoo]

I really feel for you. I was married and suffered through a much wanted stillborn child. I'm not sure anything can be so traumatic to a marriage.

 

I see how supportive you have been. For your wife to feel "at fault" about both pregnancies is normal. I can understand her need to not go there again. I can also understand your need to do just that, barring any medical advice not to.

 

The problem is obvious. I wish the solution was so clear.

 

Have either of you had any counseling? I didn't, we, didn't, at least not concerning that issue, but we were also very willing to try and try again. Our desires were the same. And they were complete.

 

GG, Your sorrow is saddening. I hope you and your wife can overcome this.

 

I am sorry DDL you went through this as well and thank you for your words. Maybe time is the solution as they say time heals all wounds and only time will tell. Then they also say what does not kill us only makes us stronger but I question that theory.

 

I am also sorry for what BO endured and should also congratulate her on her pregnancy and I wish all the best of luck for her.

[Great Gazoo]

I'm sorry to hear about everything you have and are going through. Without knowing too much of the situation, I can say a few things.

 

Obviously the two of you are not communicating very well. You're saying A and she hears B, she's saying C and you're hearing D. I don't think she doesn't care about you, she does. But maybe she has still not healed from the things that have happened. Maybe you haven't healed at all and you're tired of having an open wound and being a supportive spouse. You guys need to sit down and talk to each other over a few weeks (this will never get solved in a day). Both of you come across as loving caring people who are suffering differently and not able to reach out to each other in the right manner that is needed by the other. I'm not saying you're not doing what you can, I'm saying it's not helping to get over things, it *may* need to be done differently. And she doesn't seem to be doing you any good, and you need to get that across to her effectively. Sometimes helping your SO get over their pain helps you get over yours also. Maybe that might work for her. Consider going in for counseling, you really need that alternative.

 

Hang in there and don't become despondent. If things are at their worst, they can only get better

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

 

 

I am not sure if our communication is a problem as we can talk about everything and anything. I think it is more of us both thinking of different things at this time. I can't blame her for trying to move on if there is no other solution and it is up to me to accept it or not.

 

As I can't force mother nature or the powers at be to change things and if I think about this too much it starts to leave one thinking, WHY, WHY ME, WHY US etc.. with no answers. If you can't change something and the doctors cannot help what other choice do you have but to accept the fate.

 

I am not really sure if we have healed or if we just live in this pain together. When we had our stillborn we had to have him cremated and put into a little urn and we keep the urn mostly in the bedroom as we feel he can sleep with us in spirit.

 

All this I would think we could get over but there is so much history and unknowns for us. As I think in another year this will be going on for over 7 years from the very first miscarriage to the infertility to the still born to the ectopic to now over another year of infertility. That will be half our marriage together fighting this problem. The first 7 years of our marriage was pretty good except maybe for the first year as we both tried to find our positions in the marriage but on a personal note my life was not perfect for me as I was battling problems with my father. So to say at the least I am VERY tired at this point.

 

I know why everything weighs so heavy on her because after the first miscarriage they determined she may have a weak cervics so when she got pregnant the second time which was a challenge at that she was bed ridden, had to give up her work etc... and she knows this will be the case again, even if they give her a stitch this time, which a dunb ass doctor should have tried last time but anyways there is no guarantees this wont happen again. Then the ectopic was treated with the cancer drug as it should leave the tube intact which it did not. From her last appointment at the specialist there is something wrong and we are waiting for more test, which it seems to be taking forever for after the run around and it seems it is the only tube working in the first place.

 

We also had a difficult xmas because the stillborn happened the week before xmas two years ago and to rub salt in our wounds she started bleeding 11 days into her cycle the second time on Christmas eve and it was a question to spend xmas at a hospital or with family, she wanted family and that is what we did but it was not really very enjoyable and on the 27 she went and they did not know why but her specialist figured it was ovulation bleeding for 5 days?

 

In some ways I have given up faith, it seems the odds are against us. As I was at my friends house and he said he knows we will have a child, I told him last year I would have agreed but not so much anymore. Hopefully the trip even if it is not a holiday will do us some good, it has been awhile since we have gone anywhere together. Thanks for your 2 bits.

[blind_otter]

Great Gazoo I am so sorry that you have endured so much...I will keep you and your wife in my prayers.

[Storyrider]

I'm really sorry about all this GG. You and your wife have been through so much trauma and pain. It seems like you both feel backed into a corner, where no solution really seems right. And you also imply that you don't think she's on your side or has your back because she is so concerned with herself and her own needs. That must be hard. Your needs aren't being met, and you feel like the caregiver with no one to take care of you.

 

Your wife feels very vulnerable and guilty, I think, and as other posters have said, she is trying to keep it together by not thinking much.

 

What you've gone through together has twisted the marriage, it seems. I wonder if you can untwist it, or if you both are too overwhelmed?

 

What would you like to see happen in your relationship? Do you want your wife to try again with pregnancy, despite the extreme difficulties? When you fantasize about a happier time, how do you see yourself five years down the road? Does your fantasy include a child? Could it include your wife without a child? Could it include a child without your wife?

 

I'll keep you in my thoughts.

[ritamae]

GG, let me tell you what I would have heard when you said you wondered why you should go to the surgery:

"I really do not care."

 

You can not decide if you want to stay in the marriage if there will be no kids and she knows this means this is in her mind:

"I really do NOT support you and am not committed to a life with you no matter what happens. If you lose the ability to have children I may leave you means; if you lose the ability to walk, talk, hear, see, laugh, smile, cook, clean, anything really - if you lose something of you I may not love you enough to stay committed to you."

 

You can not imagine the sense of fear that instills in her. Couple that with her probably feeling like she really will never be good enough for you if she can not have children? I am surprised she has not left yet. The feeling to run and protect you from the pain of not being able to have children is VERY real to her and it makes total sense to her, too. I know because I also had a stillborn. I then had one child with same man. We did not survive together, but are close for our daughter today.

 

I am dating a man that has never been married and has no children. I can no longer have children. The guilty feelings, almost as if I have ripped his ability to be a father from him - is overwhelming and we are not even married. He could have left a few years ago to be able to have children. That is why I survive it, because I do know it is a choice for him now. He has chosen to not have children and to stay with me.

 

You may never really understand what she has felt - just as she will never understand what you have gone through. That male, female difference is loud and clear in a situation such as this.

I remember feeling as if my ex just did not understand or feel the same amount of pain I felt. In reality, he was masking his pain in order to be there for me. And I heard you say you are 'there for' your wife. It may be coming across as something different than you intend it to be.

 

That is why someone mentioned communication and it is precisely why you both should go to counseling.

 

I am very sorry for your loss.

[DazedandConfused66]

I'm not sure the title of this thread, and hence your question, really matches the issues I can read about from your posts.

 

The two of you went thru one of lifes many unfortunate events. You lost a child and then suffered thru another loss shortly thereafter. Since then, from what I can tell, she's tried to "move on" by finding things in her life that keep her happy and not many of those things sound like they revolve around you. In other words, she is seeking to find fulfillment in life outside of the marriage. It doesn't sound like it's affair-related or anything like that, but her needs are being sought elsewhere than in your love and embrace. You sound like (just from the tone, I could be wrong) you are angry about this and still want her to pursue options to "fix" the health issues she has that led towards loss of pregnancy and a child.

 

Now again, only going off of what you are talking about in this thread. I've no idea of your past history as a couple other than what I read.

 

So if your question is should you compromise your desire to have children via her womb in order to stay in the marriage, when doing so is clearly a big issue with you (why won't she get surgery, why won't she get fixed, etc etc etc), then you are sacrificing something that represents a "core value" to you.

 

In marriage, you should NEVER sacrifice a "core value" in the name of compromise. If you find yourself HAVING to do so, that means that the two of you are likely mismatched in the first place both psychologically and philosophically. Values are not meant to be compromised. They should have been found to be MOSTLY (perhaps not totally) complimentary during the courtship and engagement process....yet one more reason to not rush into marriage, you get time to sort these things out.

 

Compromise in the marriage goes up to sacrificing a core value. Sacrificing time, money, desires, wants, even some needs for a period of time (not forever and never with any sort of grudge)....these are all acceptable. But compromise should be mutual even in these instances.

 

But compromise a core value? Nope....it shouldn't happen. If it does, either your value or theirs are mismatched -OR- one of you is tee-totally off the rails. Honestly, given your comment here:

 

So finally at the end of this month she needs some surgery and I was to go with her, it is about 1000 miles away where they can do this surgery and it has nothing to do with trying to have a child . I raised the point why should I go? I really wonder why I should, I care about her that is why I guess. She flipped out crying and saying who is going to go with me, WHO, when I mentioned I might not go and I had to quickly say I will go with her because she kills me when she reacts like that. As she will cry and say no one loves her and she wishes she was normal, as in having children, she is stupid etc...all the things she said in the past when things went wrong. I told her I will go no matter what as I still love her, which I do but I still feel like a sucker like I feel I was before because I gave everything I had, in my heart and soul to keep her up and I will do the same thing here and when she heals from the surgery she will go back to what her life is now with little regard to what it was.

 

This is your WIFE man. What in the hell would possess you to not want to accompany your wife on a surgical procedure of any sort regardless of the distance? What's so much more important? Your job? Your time? The fact that your first comment out of your mouth was "I might not go" was a completely insensitive thing to say. You have an obligation as her husband to be there for her in sickness and in health. If you don't feel like you SHOULD be there, let alone because you may not WANT to be there, then you really need to consider who's values here are "off the rails."

 

Now having said that, I have to acknowledge that this event in your lives seems to have created a rift and has served as a catalyst for some animosity between the two of you. She's moved on alright, but not in the manner you wanted her to move on.

 

Honestly....I think the two of you need MC. Your tone communicates latent anger towards her and I'd bet a months' worth of Starbucks latte's that you show this anger towards her in other ways as well. And she's clearly got issues with you from the sound of things. You both also may need some IC to supplement...as she still seems to be suffering from feelings of self-esteem and possibly grief from being unable to carry a child, and you seem to have issues with vulnerability in being her emotional support during times of crisis.

 

The only compromise you two need to make is realizing that you are in over your heads and need some professional assistance to mediate the latent bitterness that is dissolving your marriage from the inside. If you don't, you'll start seeing behaviors to dissolve it from the OUTSIDE soon enough.

 

Good luck to you both. I'm sorry for your loss but life throws us some serious crap sometimes. My wife and I live with this reality all the time. How you two bond and get thru these issues is a test. Right now, you don't seem to be faring so well.

Edited January 19, 2008 by DazedandConfused66

[Storyrider]

In marriage, you should NEVER sacrifice a "core value" in the name of compromise. If you find yourself HAVING to do so, that means that the two of you are likely mismatched in the first place both psychologically and philosophically. Values are not meant to be compromised. They should have been found to be MOSTLY (perhaps not totally) complimentary during the courtship and engagement process....yet one more reason to not rush into marriage, you get time to sort these things out.

 

This is such an important point. What you just said would be a great thread in its own right. In order to follow this rule, people have to understand what their core values are at the time they are marrying and must be settled in their core values, not wavering. Sometimes you don't even recognize something is a core value until it is tested.

 

This is your WIFE man. What in the hell would possess you to not want to accompany your wife on a surgical procedure of any sort regardless of the distance? What's so much more important? Your job? Your time? The fact that your first comment out of your mouth was "I might not go" was a completely insensitive thing to say. You have an obligation as her husband to be there for her in sickness and in health. If you don't feel like you SHOULD be there, let alone because you may not WANT to be there, then you really need to consider who's values here are "off the rails."

 

I think you've missed something in GG's original post. His wife is encouraging him to be unfaithful and might be unfaithful herself. He doesn't feel she cares about him or supports him. This is where his doubt comes from about going with her to surgery. He doesn't feel like she is his wife right now. She's doing everything she can to keep from being a wife. He feels like she's already left him.

[Great Gazoo]

Great Gazoo I am so sorry that you have endured so much...I will keep you and your wife in my prayers.

 

Thanks for your concern and prayers, I know from what I have read you have had your share of trials and I am happy that you now how something better to look forward to.

[Great Gazoo]

GG, let me tell you what I would have heard when you said you wondered why you should go to the surgery:

"I really do not care."

 

You can not decide if you want to stay in the marriage if there will be no kids and she knows this means this is in her mind:

"I really do NOT support you and am not committed to a life with you no matter what happens. If you lose the ability to have children I may leave you means; if you lose the ability to walk, talk, hear, see, laugh, smile, cook, clean, anything really - if you lose something of you I may not love you enough to stay committed to you."

 

You can not imagine the sense of fear that instills in her. Couple that with her probably feeling like she really will never be good enough for you if she can not have children? I am surprised she has not left yet. The feeling to run and protect you from the pain of not being able to have children is VERY real to her and it makes total sense to her, too. I know because I also had a stillborn. I then had one child with same man. We did not survive together, but are close for our daughter today.

 

I am dating a man that has never been married and has no children. I can no longer have children. The guilty feelings, almost as if I have ripped his ability to be a father from him - is overwhelming and we are not even married. He could have left a few years ago to be able to have children. That is why I survive it, because I do know it is a choice for him now. He has chosen to not have children and to stay with me.

 

You may never really understand what she has felt - just as she will never understand what you have gone through. That male, female difference is loud and clear in a situation such as this.

I remember feeling as if my ex just did not understand or feel the same amount of pain I felt. In reality, he was masking his pain in order to be there for me. And I heard you say you are 'there for' your wife. It may be coming across as something different than you intend it to be.

 

That is why someone mentioned communication and it is precisely why you both should go to counseling.

 

I am very sorry for your loss.

 

I understand how she feels or I try my best to understand and she knows at the same time that I do care even though you are correct on how that statement must have seen.

 

One thing is the fact she told me no matter what that she is not going to change her life as it is now to what our marriage was before. So she told ME no matter what I decide she is still going to go out, she is still going to go to these conventions etc... which to me is very close to living a single life.

 

I think in some ways she does not want to think about this anymore and the other is as you said the feeling to run and protect me. That I know from her telling me to find someone else who can have children and I will be happy without her. You are right it is hard for each other to understand the other 100 percent and you are right that I have did everything to almost completely destroying myself to be there for her and I don't think she could ever understand how much it has taken out of me.

 

Thanks for your post because I can see that I am not the only one this has happened to and it gives me a idea of what she must be thinking. I am sorry for your loss also.

[Great Gazoo]

I'm not sure the title of this thread, and hence your question, really matches the issues I can read about from your posts.

 

The two of you went thru one of lifes many unfortunate events. You lost a child and then suffered thru another loss shortly thereafter. Since then, from what I can tell, she's tried to "move on" by finding things in her life that keep her happy and not many of those things sound like they revolve around you. In other words, she is seeking to find fulfillment in life outside of the marriage. It doesn't sound like it's affair-related or anything like that, but her needs are being sought elsewhere than in your love and embrace. You sound like (just from the tone, I could be wrong) you are angry about this and still want her to pursue options to "fix" the health issues she has that led towards loss of pregnancy and a child.

 

Now again, only going off of what you are talking about in this thread. I've no idea of your past history as a couple other than what I read.

 

So if your question is should you compromise your desire to have children via her womb in order to stay in the marriage, when doing so is clearly a big issue with you (why won't she get surgery, why won't she get fixed, etc etc etc), then you are sacrificing something that represents a "core value" to you.

 

In marriage, you should NEVER sacrifice a "core value" in the name of compromise. If you find yourself HAVING to do so, that means that the two of you are likely mismatched in the first place both psychologically and philosophically. Values are not meant to be compromised. They should have been found to be MOSTLY (perhaps not totally) complimentary during the courtship and engagement process....yet one more reason to not rush into marriage, you get time to sort these things out.

 

Compromise in the marriage goes up to sacrificing a core value. Sacrificing time, money, desires, wants, even some needs for a period of time (not forever and never with any sort of grudge)....these are all acceptable. But compromise should be mutual even in these instances.

 

But compromise a core value? Nope....it shouldn't happen. If it does, either your value or theirs are mismatched -OR- one of you is tee-totally off the rails. Honestly, given your comment here:

 

 

 

This is your WIFE man. What in the hell would possess you to not want to accompany your wife on a surgical procedure of any sort regardless of the distance? What's so much more important? Your job? Your time? The fact that your first comment out of your mouth was "I might not go" was a completely insensitive thing to say. You have an obligation as her husband to be there for her in sickness and in health. If you don't feel like you SHOULD be there, let alone because you may not WANT to be there, then you really need to consider who's values here are "off the rails."

 

Now having said that, I have to acknowledge that this event in your lives seems to have created a rift and has served as a catalyst for some animosity between the two of you. She's moved on alright, but not in the manner you wanted her to move on.

 

Honestly....I think the two of you need MC. Your tone communicates latent anger towards her and I'd bet a months' worth of Starbucks latte's that you show this anger towards her in other ways as well. And she's clearly got issues with you from the sound of things. You both also may need some IC to supplement...as she still seems to be suffering from feelings of self-esteem and possibly grief from being unable to carry a child, and you seem to have issues with vulnerability in being her emotional support during times of crisis.

 

The only compromise you two need to make is realizing that you are in over your heads and need some professional assistance to mediate the latent bitterness that is dissolving your marriage from the inside. If you don't, you'll start seeing behaviors to dissolve it from the OUTSIDE soon enough.

 

Good luck to you both. I'm sorry for your loss but life throws us some serious crap sometimes. My wife and I live with this reality all the time. How you two bond and get thru these issues is a test. Right now, you don't seem to be faring so well.

 

 

I think you are right about core values. When it comes to having children she was very strong on having children from day 1 and I knew this. She wanted a child from the go and I told her we should wait till we were more settled in life as in financially sound etc... She was 19 when we got married and dated me since she was 15 and a half.

 

So we are both on the same page as core values. She has told me a couple times when she was young she feared she would not be able to have kids because she loved them so much and I asked her how can she change so much and she told me she has not, that she still wants kids but it is the fear now that might be too much to overcome.

 

And your right that this has been very difficult and one of the problems is I don't know if she is the same person she was before this all happened. I had some anger but it was not at her and this was one of the reasons she started a EA and that has been long and settled. I understood why it happened and we both made solutions for it to not happen again as in we keep everything out in the open, text messaging etc... everything.

[Great Gazoo]

I'm really sorry about all this GG. You and your wife have been through so much trauma and pain. It seems like you both feel backed into a corner, where no solution really seems right. And you also imply that you don't think she's on your side or has your back because she is so concerned with herself and her own needs. That must be hard. Your needs aren't being met, and you feel like the caregiver with no one to take care of you.

 

Your wife feels very vulnerable and guilty, I think, and as other posters have said, she is trying to keep it together by not thinking much.

 

What you've gone through together has twisted the marriage, it seems. I wonder if you can untwist it, or if you both are too overwhelmed?

 

What would you like to see happen in your relationship? Do you want your wife to try again with pregnancy, despite the extreme difficulties? When you fantasize about a happier time, how do you see yourself five years down the road? Does your fantasy include a child? Could it include your wife without a child? Could it include a child without your wife?

 

I'll keep you in my thoughts.

 

Hey SR I think you are correct, we both feel cornered but not by each other but by life and sometimes we take a swing just for protection from falling into oblivion but she always knows I have her back but I don't have that feeling from her. Just like when all this was going on I would try to comfort her but after I helped her there was nobody to comfort me. I would listen to her saying that she wanted to die and I would support her but then I had nobody to tell I wanted to die also. I could not tell her that and I have come to realize this more than ever this week that I am on my own, there really is nobody behind me. I will always be there for her no matter what some think.

 

I can't look ahead 5 years, no matter how hard I try because I have learned that things just don't work out the way you want them no matter how hard a person tries, sometimes we have NO control. I would like her to try again but at her wishes NOT for me. I know I would love to be like my friend or brother or brother in law, they all have kids and it is hard to watch sometimes, my wife always has said I would make such a great dad.

 

I know maybe counseling might help but I think before that in a couple months we should know if she can have a child anymore and then we should make a decision which way our lives should go. I guess this whole thread is about me compromising on being a dad and letting her have her life. I know having a child is as Dazed said a core value but as seeing there is nothing she or me or even the medical field can do I DO have to decide if I can compromise on this. I can live with her new life if I decide to give up this part myself and change direction also but who is to say our lives will run parallel after that. I think she wants our lives together but the fear and pain from the past holds her back. Anyways thanks for your thoughts SR, they are always welcome.

[Sierra Sunrise]

I agree with a lot of the other posters, losing a child is devastating. I lost a total of ten children before having two that went full term. No explaination as to why we lost those children. Mind you I had my son between 5th loss and 6th loss, then my daughter came in between 9th and tenth. It was all devastating. AFter the last one we decided not to try anymore. It was always our dream to have a total of three to four but my body just can't handle pregnancy that well. I had a number of issues during the pregnancies. Pre eclampsia, partial kidney failure, high blood pressure. Otherwise outside of pregnancy I'm pretty much healthy. They just couldn't explain it. I had tons of tests done. I do mean tons, while pregnant and non pregnancy state, and still no resolve. So we're happy with the two we have.

 

It sounds like to me that she still has residual pain and she resents herself and she's scared. I say counseling! Yes counseling. I think that's the way to go.

[Great Gazoo]

I agree with a lot of the other posters, losing a child is devastating. I lost a total of ten children before having two that went full term. No explaination as to why we lost those children. Mind you I had my son between 5th loss and 6th loss, then my daughter came in between 9th and tenth. It was all devastating. AFter the last one we decided not to try anymore. It was always our dream to have a total of three to four but my body just can't handle pregnancy that well. I had a number of issues during the pregnancies. Pre eclampsia, partial kidney failure, high blood pressure. Otherwise outside of pregnancy I'm pretty much healthy. They just couldn't explain it. I had tons of tests done. I do mean tons, while pregnant and non pregnancy state, and still no resolve. So we're happy with the two we have.

 

It sounds like to me that she still has residual pain and she resents herself and she's scared. I say counseling! Yes counseling. I think that's the way to go.

 

Thanks for the post, I have heard of others that have tried and tried and were successful. I think the biggest thing now is the infertility issue that came back and the constant waiting for the test and run around by the doctors.

 

I read a few of your previous posts and I see you had your share of troubles in your marriage in the past and I wonder if any of what you went through affected your actions and maybe how your H reacted to you?

 

I also think SR made me also realize I have lots of mixed emotions about the whole issue. As I have known my wife more than half her life and seeing she was so young when we first met I have always felt responsible for her and I feel in ways I have let her down because I can't help her or give her what she wanted.

 

I think I understand more of how she is thinking and why things are working this way. As I said I am going with her, we decided to take a few extra days and spend them together as a holiday. I will just enjoy the time with her. Once we have a better idea of what choices we have then if she is willing we can try again and she/me might need counseling at that time and if she decides she does not want to try again or the test show she is unable then I will also have to respect that and decide if I can be happy because I don't want any anger towards her or in the marriage. I also explained to her at this time I don't want to be living what seems like a single life and she agrees that it is not the best so hopefully things will be better.

[katiebour]

My ex-bf was adopted from Korea. He had a cleft lip/palate that was repaired with surgery (insurance paid the whole thing) and he had a wonderful loving relationship with his family. Have you thought about adopting from overseas or considering a child with minor physical problems that can be corrected?

 

I have seen firsthand how wonderful adoption can be. If pregnancy is too physically and emotionally taxing I encourage you to go this route. I know it's expensive, to the tune of 10k-25k, but you get tax breaks for adoption and after all, what could be more important than having the family that you so deeply desire?

 

Fertility treatments and time off from work on the part of your wife for a bedridden pregnancy would be expensive too.

[Great Gazoo]

My ex-bf was adopted from Korea. He had a cleft lip/palate that was repaired with surgery (insurance paid the whole thing) and he had a wonderful loving relationship with his family. Have you thought about adopting from overseas or considering a child with minor physical problems that can be corrected?

 

I have seen firsthand how wonderful adoption can be. If pregnancy is too physically and emotionally taxing I encourage you to go this route. I know it's expensive, to the tune of 10k-25k, but you get tax breaks for adoption and after all, what could be more important than having the family that you so deeply desire?

 

Fertility treatments and time off from work on the part of your wife for a bedridden pregnancy would be expensive too.

 

Yes that is something we have looked into, we had 2 meeting's with a international adoption agency but that is far as that went, we are not sure about the cost as it was over the 30 000 dollars and the risk of medical issues.

 

Anything local involves damaged children with FAS which we even looked into accepting a child with that but after talking with some that have went through it we were discouraged.

 

We looked in foster children and a friend of my wife did that and has some scary stories to tell.

 

At the moment we are looking into adoption through the Dave Thomas Foundation but we were told that it would probably be school aged children but we will see and are still interested in it.

 

Believe me we have looked into it a lot and it maybe the last solution. As far as the infertility it is surgery for her tubes that might be done and it is all covered by healthcare but we would want a honest opinion from the specialist on the odds she can carry a child to term and the same goes if we tried in vitro as we were told of a horrible episode that happened to one couple, I found it very sad. Also her time off work is also covered by long term disability so there is no cost to us and that I am thankful for.

[ritamae]

It is important to know when adopting that love does not cure all things. It is important to love a child, but it can be equally important - if not more so - to be able to fight for them and get services, medical attention, mental health, go to bat for them at schools, etc.

 

That is how you save a child. It is a lot of work and very stressful. But, rewarding.

[Great Gazoo]

Yeah I guess I am too lazy to start a new thread but I just don't feel like starting another thread. In fact I have been trying to avoid LS like the plague because I just wanted things to go away. I thought if things could cool off everything would be ok. I also am embarrassed about what happened and it pains me that I seem to bring the worse character out of my wife because in reality she is a very good person. Also I have come to the conclusion that I know nothing. I read my posts and I find I have no direction left in my life, I don't even know who I am anymore.

 

No, no child yet and it is probably a good thing...its not like we are really trying or anything.

 

Just before we left on this trip she had some test done for a rash...the results came back as maybe shingles from stress or herpes. So I really had to struggle with a decision but I figured it was shingles from stress and I did not think it would be right to leave her to go through the surgery alone even if it was not life threating.

 

So the trip was great, it was nice to have some us time and it healed some wounds. That was soon to change as we got back and one doctor told her the rash was cold sore herpes...I did not know and still do not know what it really was because it never came back. Anyways after talking or should I say yelling or both it came out that she had cheated on me 3 weeks before at one of these conventions with some guy who also has a girl friend.

 

So anyway after a couple days of talking and me really thinking I decided to let it go. After everything that happened I could forgive this but never again I told her. She told me how me questioning her about everything, the text messages etc... made her feel uncomfortable in the marriage and drove her to this. I explained that I could smell a lie and I caught her twice lying to me about text messages and that is why I was questioning everything. I knew she was lying and had to fight her every time to make the point. So it was just a vicious circle.

 

So fast forward...everything was going good...then last week I was getting a ride from her as in she was driving and her cell phone goes off saying she got a text message. So I thought I would be nice and read it for her when she grabs the phone pushes a few buttons and then gives it to me. Well the message is gone. I asked her what did you do? She tells me she doesn't know but it was from so and so about work. Ok that would be fine but it was too weird and it just broke my heart. I just said whatever, you can lie if you want but I am not stupid and never said nothing else.

 

So after I was thinking ok thats it, I want a divorce, this is not going to work. I was heart broken. When I seen her again sure enough she tells me the truth, that she did lie and it was this other girl who she was going with to another city, a hour away, wanting to know if they were going out to the bar.

 

So I was right and I told her your not to lie, why? it is better to just tell me, if she wanted to go to the bar with her friend thats is fine but lying no way. She said that from before how I would get upset...she didn't want me to get upset, I tried to explain it is the lying that upsets me.

 

So I let it be for a couple days then we got into this huge fight because she realized that I was serious about that the marriage may end and it shocked her. She knows how she hurt me and I think she sees now that the marriage could end.

 

So now it is left to me, she said whatever I decide is fine, that she will leave. She said she is more worried about me being alone because she has a lot of other people in her life. At first she wanted a date when she should leave and I finally told her to leave it alone, to let me think about things.

 

Everything just has a funny feeling about it now, it is like there is this cloud hanging over our heads and we both know it is there. She told me a couple days ago that she couldn't wait for today because she had already made plans with this girl again. They are sleeping over at a hotel again. At one time this girl had said she would do something sexually with my wife. I don't see a woman the same as a guy and women are allowed to have female friends. I don't think I should have stopped her, just because this girl is bi it means nothing but there is this trust issue from the lying that keeps coming back. When she lied everything came back and I had told her no more lies.

 

So I don't know if I am making too much of a big deal about her lying. I really don't know what I should do...I don't want to end up in a dark place again. I was thinking of just letting it go and see what happens, I still love her but I don't want to get hurt again. Anyways I never thought my life would turn this way, never in a million years would I have ever imagined what would happen. Sorry for the babbling but I had to tell someone.

[Kenyth]

Buddy, when the building's burning around you, you do the only thing you can. You run for the door. She's cheating on you constantly, and remorselessly, and there's no excuse for it. Stop trying to make excuses for her. She appears to have plenty of her own anyway, so why should you go through all the extra work.

 

Think of it this way. There's no children yet to complicate things. You're young, and there's plenty of opportunity for you out there. You can go throught the short intense pain of a divorce and heal up, or the long term disabling, crippling pain of dealing with a cheating, lying, unloving spouse. Believe me, a couple years down the road when you have a loving wife who's a blessing in your life and a bouncing baby or two you'll be thankful you made the hard choice sooner rather than later.

 

You sound to be a mess right now. I've been there. Take my advice and get off this rat infested sinking ship before it sucks you down into the abyss. Stop forgiving her, and start forgetting her!