kle Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Does anyone have experience being with a significant other with borderline personality disorder, or histrionic personality disorder? I'm wondering if you have seen a change in them through therapy? Someone I had been seeing for the past year and a half was recently diagnosed with these 2 personality disorders. Our relationship was very hard. He had lied to me, had been hot and cold emotionally, and very manipulative when he thought he was losing me. I just had enough and ended the relationship. He is really trying to talk to me, rationally for once, about his problems and how badly he wants to make this relationship work. It seems like everything I read talks about personality disorders being almost impossible to fix. I do care for this person, and was really in love with him at one time. He has done a lot of things to hurt me, but I'm wondering if he can turn these bahaviors around. He is seeing a psychotherapist now. I'd love to hear if you have any words of wisdom on this topic. Thanks.
Trialbyfire Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I knew he wasn't NPD. He didn't act like it. Way too much drama. I'm glad you now know what you're dealing with. I can't offer any experience with the two disorders you're talking about but I do wish you a boatload of luck, if you choose to proceed with someone with two disorders.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 He has traits of both disorders, but not all traits in each... thankfully. That would be a disaster. Not that this isn't. My brother is manic-depressive and was impossible to deal with but much better now. I had post traumatic stress disorder and dissociative amnesia, and I am also much better now. Am I really empathetic, or just stupid? I don't know. But, when you love someone, how do you bail on them when they finally are taking steps to heal themselves? Especially if you still love them? I'm just looking for someone who may have experience with a situation like this.
Trialbyfire Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 If you consider the drama you've experienced already, are you prepared for episodes of this, regardless of treatment? Regardless of love, sometimes you have to do whatever works for you. I walked from an NPD spouse who cheated on me. He did end up getting treatment, thanks to LS and its knowledge base but this isn't something I was willing to live with, for the rest of my life. There's no cure for many disorders, only a lifetime of treatment and potential risks associated to it. Whether the disorders you stated are treatable, I don't know. Best to find out what it takes and what the downsides are, previous to committing to something. The last thing you want to do, is to take the martyr's stance and put up with it for the sake of love, making both of you unhappy in the process.
Lauriebell82 Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Well, I don't personally have experience being in a relationship with someone who has those disorders, but I am a therapist so in my experience both disorders can be treatable. However it does require a really strong support system. The problem with personality disorders is that you can't "cure" them of it. You can only help treat/manage the symptoms so that they don't cause havoc in your life. If you truly love him and are willing to stand by him until he gets better than I commend you. But it will be a hard road for him to get better, you just can't cure someone overnight. But being with a borderline probably isn't easy, so I don't think you should be too hard on yourself if you feel that this relationship isn't right for you. Maybe you could tell him that you want him to get better so maybe it would be best for him to concentrate on that for now. Keep in contact and keep supporting him, but until you see some evidence of his syptoms getting under control I don't think you should go back to him. That will just give him the idea that he doesn't need help, that it is ok to hurt you because he has "mental illness." That excuse gets used a lot in the mental health system. Make him take responsibility and get him motivated for treatment. That's all you can really do right now.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Those are the million dollar questions I'll be asking the therapist on thursday when we go together. Is there a treatment for these? How long does it take to see marked improvement? And, what is the course of treatment? My other big question will be what is his commitment to this process. Do you know if your ex husband has improved since getting help for his NPD? He does have symptoms of NPD as well. Like 3 symptoms of NPD, 3 of BPD, and 3 of HPD. I know it sounds like a logistical nightmare trying to get this all straightened out. I have a lot of questions for the therapist on Thursday, that's for sure.
Trialbyfire Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Yes, I did see improvement but then, NPDers are very good at fooling themselves too. It takes a lot of continuous therapy. If he's seeing a psychotherapist, leave the diagnosis to them. Everyone has symptoms of NPD, in that it's the ultimate in selfishness, but it's the degree of selfishness and egocentricity, that drives whether he has that disorder.
Lauriebell82 Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 How long does it take to see marked improvement? And, what is the course of treatment? It varies according to the patient. It just depends on the medication (if there is any), how hard the client is willing to work, and how severe the symptoms are. Chances are the therapist will probably tell you the same thing. My other big question will be what is his commitment to this process. This would be a helpful thing you could find out. You may want to ask your bf the same thing and compare that to what the therapist says. I have a lot of questions for the therapist on Thursday, that's for sure. That's a good attitude. Individuals with mental illness have a much better chance of managing it if they have a strong support system, and people caring about them. It is commendable that you go to the therapist with him, it shows how much you care!
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 lauriebell82 - I appreciate your response. I do have a question for you. Do you know, typically, how long it would take with 1 visit per week in therapy for him to start improving? Or, at least learn the skills to manage his behavior?
Lauriebell82 Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 lauriebell82 - I appreciate your response. I do have a question for you. Do you know, typically, how long it would take with 1 visit per week in therapy for him to start improving? Or, at least learn the skills to manage his behavior? I wish I had a better answer then "it depends." Because it does depend on a lot of factors. Generally in treatment plans, after a 3 month period we go back and assess whether or not the symptoms and/or goals have improved. But I work in a mental health clinic and we do more solution focused brief therapy. But generally when in therapy, you can start to see improvement in symptoms after 4 or 5 sessions, sometimes longer. You may want to ask the therapist since she is actually seeing him if she can give you an estimate based on his progress so far.
Timberlane Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 You're correct that personality disorders are some of the worst kinds of disorders in that they seldom respond to treatment nor do the patients have a lot of success changing their behavior. With depressives medication can often be found that works and some cognitive therapy can help cut off negative thinking. But really, what you see is what you get with personalities. If you are no longer in this relationship, you might consider yourself lucky. Help this person if you like, but you are certainly not obligated to.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks! My therapist said the disorder that stood out most with him is Histrionic. It explains a lot of the drama and lying. I know he is trying, but he really needs to be able to commit to trying for the long term. Many times he's trying following a break-up or possible break-up and then it stops pretty quickly. That's why I'm going to counseling with him, and seeing what the treatment plan is. If he doesn't stick to it, then in my mind it means I don't mean enough to him to do it, and that's when I walk away. That's the boundary I think I have to set.
Trialbyfire Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 then in my mind it means I don't mean enough to him to do it, and that's when I walk away. That's the boundary I think I have to set. Don't do this to him and yourself. He needs to do it for himself, not you. You're demanding too much.
Lauriebell82 Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I agree with TBF that getting better has to be for him. I'm sorry I know you want him to get better, but honestly it sounds like maybe he is just going to treatment so you'll get back with him. It sounds like you only want him back if he gets better, but honestly what if he doesn't? What if he gets a little better, you get back wiht him, then he relapses? Are you going to break up with him again, or stick by him? Because honestly, mental illness doesn't just get better overnight or even over a short period of time. And I always usually tell families that they should only be involved in treatment if they are willing to stick it out through the good and the bad. Because "the bad" is all part of recovery.
Trialbyfire Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Please remember that he's not being mentally ill to spite you or to try to hurt you. It's who he is and if you want to continue a relationship with him, you have to be prepared to handle all the spikes associated to it, for as long as he's in your life. He really can't help it but he can get help for himself. It will always be an uphill battle for him and, potentially, you.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 I don't know. My counselor told me to make sure I set a limit for myself. If he is saying he will go through with this treatment plan to get back together with me only, then if he quits, I have to walk away. I don't want him to do this for me, and he knows that. He needs to do it for himself. I totally know that. Will I break up with him if he relapses? I'm not sure how to answer that because I don't know what it would involve. If I know in my heart that he is really trying, then no, I won't. I just need to make sure, while I'm helping him, I'm also looking out for myself. I hope that makes sense. Before I felt like I was being supportive in helping him, and now somehow I feel selfish. I hope you aren't perceiving me that way. I'm truly not and I'm not only out for myself here. I do really care for him.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 I am more than willing to be involved in the treatment. I will also stick by him through good and bad if he's truly trying. When you say "involved in the treatment," what do you mean by that? Just supporting him, or be directly involved somehow?
Art_Critic Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I would highly recommend a book written just for people involved with a BPD.. Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care about Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. Mason (Author), Randi Kreger (Author) This book opens your eyes to what life living with a BPD will be like and how to cope.. A must have !!... Remember that everyday will be a roller coaster of emotions and once you are in the fog you become part of the scenery and it becomes more difficult to be objective and see them for what they are.. mentally ill...
Trialbyfire Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I hope that makes sense. Before I felt like I was being supportive in helping him, and now somehow I feel selfish. I hope you aren't perceiving me that way. I'm truly not and I'm not only out for myself here. I do really care for him. I understand now, with your reference to how you should approach this, by your therapist. It's actions to consequences, as opposed to something being held over his head, that he doesn't love you enough, if he falls or fails treatment. These are two different approaches and I strongly believe in actions to consequences but not in combination with a form of conditional love, although all love is conditional, to a reasonable extent.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 My therapist has been talking to me a lot lately about actions to consequences. That is what led me to going to counseling with him and being part of his treatment. He is very willing to do this, and I know he now realizes that if he doesn't change... I'm out. Also, that he'll struggle with any future relationships if he doesn't change. I have not threatened to leave or anything like that if he doesn't do the treatment plan, but I think he knows it's an unspoken truth. I have not even made any promises of getting back together if he changes. I know he needs to primarily concentrate on himself. I'm sooooo emotionally drained from all of this. He was an emotional wreck the past few days. It really does drain a person.
Mz. Pixie Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I would highly recommend a book written just for people involved with a BPD.. This book opens your eyes to what life living with a BPD will be like and how to cope.. A must have !!... Remember that everyday will be a roller coaster of emotions and once you are in the fog you become part of the scenery and it becomes more difficult to be objective and see them for what they are.. mentally ill... Agree with AC here- that is a fantastic resource. My mother had a borderline personality disorder. Unfortunately she never sought treatment for it because in her mind, she didn't have a problem- everyone else did. If you're only dating this guy- sorry- I think you should run as fast as you can. The drama and abuse they can heap out is unbelievable. I wasn't able to walk completely away from my mother because well, she was my mother. I had to learn to not let her outbursts, abuse and emotional blackmail not bother me. I also learned to stand up for myself with her and when I would she would raise holy hell for a bit and then she'd be over it- forgetting how the whole mess started in the beginning. She'd rewrite history making her self look like an angel- when of course it didn't happen that way! I'd worry about any children that you might have with this guy. They would be the innocent victims is all of this, just like I was. The abuse that I suffered as a child from her has haunted me my entire life- despite therapy for myself off and on over the last 10 years. Respectfully, you shouldn't do that to a child. According to my therapist they very seldom change because even if they do go to therapy it takes years and years to see any change. I would rid myself of the drama- it's truly, truly exhausting.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Mz. Pixie -- what kinds of things did you experience with your mother? What type of abuse? If you don't mind discussing that.
blind_otter Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder over a year ago. I've been in psychotherapy ever since, and was treated aggressively with a medication called "Abilify", as well as the anitdepressant Prozac. It worked wonders for me. I have made tons of progress in the past 1+ year. My SO and I no longer have those crazy arguments. I have a much improved ability to deal with ambiguity and emotional stress. Let me say, though, that I had previously been in and out of therapy for 8 years with several different mental health practitioners. I finally reached a breaking point when I began to self-mutilate. I really dedicated myself to getting better, and with a lot of hard work and effort, I did. My therapist was amazed at my progress - she has commented many times that she is extremely proud of me, and her superiors have come into the sessions to congratulate me as well. I've switched to a different psychiatrist now that i'm pregnant. I'm also no longer taking the mood stabilizer abilify, but I feel much happier, calmer, and more in control of my life now than I ever have before.
Author kle Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 I think I need to stress that he doesn't have these disorders to a severe point. It's rare that I see them, and they have never impacted our daily relationship. It's like they come and go, and never to a point where he becomes abusive or anything like that. He doesn't go crazy or anything, with exception of the major dramatics that come out when I've left him or when he fears i'm going to leave him. He has 2 boys, ages 8 and 11, and truly is an awesome father to them. He has never mistreated them, and is very loving and kind to them. Really, his symptoms only surface in personal intimate relationships, so I'm the lucky one who sees them. He's never "mean" to me or yells at me or anything like that. He has this habit of saying what he thinks I want to hear, which results in lying. He goes in and out of being emotionally cold, and emotionally warm. He can be manipulative, but again, only when he thinks I'm going to leave him. I don't view this person as a total disaster or even close to crazy. I really don't. He has a ton of friends, has a successful business he recently started, a wonderful family, and really is a wonderful father. He can also be incredibly sweet at times. If our relationship was hard all the time I wouldn't be so determined to try to make it work. It's not hard all the time though, only at certain times. Overall, he really is a very good person. He has done things to hurt me, and his emotional fits can be exhausting. That is what he really needs to work on. Otherwise, I have been happy with him. That is why I'm still here I guess. I hope that makes sense. My mother is bi-polar. We really don't have much of a relationship to speak of. She would get upset when I was a little girl and throw things in my room and just trash it, then come back 10 minutes later bawling. Far too much for a little girl to handle. She cheated on my dad, threw plates at his head in our drive way. Then, when I was 12, put me in a position that allowed a bad man to rape me. I have asked her to get help and see a counselor on a number of occassions. She never did, and I gave up on her a long time ago. Someone like her, I would never, ever be with. He is NOTHING like that.
Art_Critic Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Part of the issue KLE is if the person who has BPD is doing anything about it. If they are in therapy and on meds then they are doing everything they can do to control it.. Any experience that I have with it is colored by the person refusing to seek help and take their meds after they were properly diagnosed by a qualified doctor. With your BF you mentioned the cycling only happening from time to time and you think it is manageable.. add on that he is seeking help and you have something that would be workable.. Also.. BPD changes thruout a persons life.. typically it will lessen the older a person gets..or they get better at dealing with it and adjust ..
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