My husband's female best friend-

[angie2443]

I posted this on the cheating, jealously board but I wasn't sure if that was the right board to post on so I'm reposting here.

 

When I first met my husband, he had a female best friend. I wasn't aware that she was his best friend until a few months into our relationship. I don't think this is something he kept from me, just something that didn't come up. She was married (she met my husband at the office where they worked, 3 days after her wedding).

 

At first I thought it was good that my then boyfriend had female friends. I felt it meant that he saw women as more than just potential relationship/sex partners. Then, I began to see things in their relationship that made me unconfortable. I'll list some of these so it is easier to read.

 

1. When I would come home to our apartment (we have since moved) and she would be there, I always had the sense that I was the odd one out. She wouldn't look at me much, they wouldn't say much. I can't put my finger on it, but it felt like when you walk into a room with two people talking and they suddenly stop. I just brushed my feelings aside and told myself that she was just uncomfortable around me.

 

2. My husband would joke every so often that he and she were going to run off and "get it on". I laughed, I guess to show that the jokes didn't bother me. Her husband seemed to purposely ignore the jokes. It just felt odd.

 

3. They shared intimant details about our sex lives with each other. She now knows private things about me that I would not tell my family or best friend. I have not gotten over this and still have problems trusting my husband with my private thoughts and feelings now.

 

4. When we went through a rough patch a few years ago (we had three kids back to back and were not handleing the stress well) he told her the details of our fights. I felt like they were on one team and I was on the opposing team.

 

5. Many of her male friends, married and single, who knew she was married, made sexual advances towards her and she always shared these stories with my husband. I began to sence that she was sending signals to these men that she disrespected her marriage and that she enjoyed the sexual advances. I felt uncomfortable that she was so enthusiastic in sharing these advances with my husband.

 

I have a whole laundry list of issues with this friendship. When I first started telling my husband that I was uncomfortable with certain things, I was being as considerate about their feelings as possible. I wasn't trying to have them end the friendship, but just wanted my husband to understand that some of these things that were going on were hurting me. I guess I wanted bounderies set but didn't know that at the time. He defended her and himself saying that they were just friends and that I was being jealous and insecure. The fights became so intence that he ended the friendship. This was about a year and some months ago. Four months ago, it came out in mc(we had this and other issues to resolve) that he was resentful about ending the friendship. He had previously told me that he was "over it" and that my sense that he still had feelings for her were wrong.

 

We are actually doing well now. I just can't seem to get over this friendship. I think it's because I need to know the truth of what was going on. It certainly felt like more than a casual friendship and yet they've both said that I was overreacting.

 

If anyone can help me figure this out, please respond.

 

Thanks.

[cj1988]

Honey, I am sorry to tell you now, you will NEVER know how he felt or feels about her FOR real. You will never know what happened or didnt between them all that time.

 

It seems to me from your post, you think he may have feelings for her and maybe was having an EA to you because of all the things they discussed, am I right?

[american-woman]

Bunch of red flags here. Keep your husband away from her. There is no such thing as we are just friends, thats how most affairs start.

[BetrayedMM]

A couple big fat red flags jumped right out at me- him sharing details about your sex life, and joking about 'getting it on'. Not good.

 

What's with this woman having so many male 'friends' anyway? BTW, if sexual advances are going on, it's not friendship. Those are red flags applying to her.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable with this situation. I've heard that 'just friends' crap too many times, and each time it turns out to be a lie. Sure, it's possible, but if this 'friendship' bothers you, then it's inappropriate.

 

What is your gut telling you?

[Mustang Sally]

Sounds like he is having an EA (at the least) with her.

If you find it inappropriate, then it probably is.

[JamesM]

How do you know that the friendship ended?

 

And yes, to me, it sounds like more than a friendship.

[whichwayisup]

Their friendship was purely selfish and had nothing to do with being real, honest and platonic friends. If it was, then you and her husband would have been included in it, but you two weren't. They spend too much time together, talked too intimately, personally about stuff that really shouldn't have been spoken about.

 

Fact that he resents that the friendship is over (I agree with James, how do you know 100% that it is and they're not talking on the phone and emailing, sneaking off to spend time together?) and he is feeling that loss means that she meant something to him.

 

Did they fool around or have sex? I don't know. BUT, they were emotionally involved and way too attached to eachother. They both crossed lines that never should be crossed, and your husband disreguarded your feelings putting her first before you. THAT is wrong!

 

You may never find out the truth of what actually happened between them, but you DO know that she was a thorn in your marriage and not a friend to you at all.

[MakeLemonade]

I agree, it is inappropriate to discuss highly intimate details of a committed relationship w/ an outside party of any kind (unless it is a therapy-type situation), especially if they are intimacy issues, problems in the bedroom, etc. I cringed reading your post, thinking of how I would feel if the situation were reversed. I would also agree that there is a relationship beyond just "friendship" here. Not an affair, maybe, but something dangling treacherously close to an EA.

 

Trust your instincts and don't let your husband negate your feelings, you have a right to feel them.

 

What to do....this is a very tough situation, especially because this has been going on since before you even met your husband. And you married him knowing he had this great female friend he confided in and such.

 

I would just try to calmly discuss it with him, talking about things openly and honestly can solve alot of problems in a marriage, if he continues to negate and discount your feelings on the subject, I would suggest you ask him to go to counseling with you maybe? He needs to understand that the lack of boundaries he has with this woman is hurting you, embarassing you in some cases, and certainly making you uncomfortable on a regular basis. If he isn't willing to respect you enough as a partner, friend and mother of his 3 children to try to back off a bit from the intimate details and "alone" time the two of them share, then you really need to evaluate whether that is who you want to spend the rest of your life with. If he says unequivocally NO, she is my BFF and I will tell her every thing I want to tell her, and I will spend time with her alone if I want to - can you live with that? Forever?

 

You may want to do a little checking, see if there are any emails or texts that would imply something more than friends. I know your mind must be so confused and going in a million directions all the time wondering what the heck is the deal with this woman and your husbands NEED to confide in and be BF w/ her. It might help put your mind at ease OR give you more confidence to discuss this with him and be strong enough to insist that something must change for the sake of your marriage.

 

I really am on the fence about snooping emails and texts. In a dating relationship NO, in a marriage - I think if you have just cause, you should be able to do the search. Sometimes it is the only way you will ever find out that someone is doing things they shouldn't do and frankly, you, as his wife, have a right to know. You have a vested interest in him staying faithful to his family and your checking things out for your peace of mind is protecting that investment. I know some people will disagree with me, and say you shouldn't but hopefully, he would let you see it if you asked at a moment's notice. One positive thing I noticed is that despite everything else, he is seemingly honest with you about all of this, at least to a certain point, so that is a plus.

 

I wish you the best.

[KittenMoon]

I feel for you honey. I've been in your situation, where my long term bf met a new best girl friend and I basically turned into the third wheel. It didn't end well- he never got why i was resentful, never realized he was crossing boundaries that were really disrespectful to me, etc. Neither did she, though EVERYONE else around us saw the issue at the time. WE're no longer together, he's the reason I'm on LS. It still burns me deeper than I'd like to admit.

 

It's like a no-win situation- you can't fight it because you seem like a resentful witch, and you can't live with it, because it tears you down inside. The thing is, it's not YOUR fault. You have every right to feel how you feel about what was happening. In a marriage, your spouse should be your best friend (in the particular manner you are describing).

 

And I'm not saying men and women cannot be close friends. I have a very close male friend who is married. We spend a lot of time together. I have been mistaken for his girlfriend and wife, and probably been suspected of being his mistress. But the reality is we don't act like your husband and his friend acted. I am also good friends with his wife, and we all spend time together. We have an ongoing joke that I'm the "platonic mistress".

 

The level of interaction that is appropriate vs. inappropriate is hard to define, but it's there. Your husband needs to understand this, and because of the closeness of the situation, it's not going to sound well coming from you. DO you have any close third-party friends that could talk to your husband, maybe help him see why his actions were so disrepectful and wounding to you?

[whichwayisup]

You also should ask your husband how HE would feel if you had an extremely close friendship with another man. Ask him how HE would feel knowing how much time you spent with another man, let alone shared intimate and personal details with him...I'm sure he would be PISSED OFF and as well jealous.

[jmargel]

I've always had female friends and still quite abit after I got married. My wife really never minded, and they would often call, or I would go out with one of them. However I always told my wife if she ever was uncomfortable with it, to let me know and I would address whatever concerns there were.

 

I know my boundaries and never crossed them. Women by nature I think want to know what is going on in their friend's lives, they sure would ask me quite a few questions. But they never disrespected my wife.

 

You can't keep him away from other women, it's like trying to keep booze away from an alcoholic. It won't work. Either he has the respect and follow the boundaries or set him free. Though for you to 'make' him stop keeping in contact with his friend I believe is wrong. You are basically telling him that you don't trust him. However he has acted wrong himself in the way he's handled this situation.

 

The way I would address it, is to let him know that you don't want him to lose contact with her, but to know that you should be his priority and that there are certain things you don't find acceptable.

 

When two people are friends like that, there is always the possiblity of something happening, however would you really want to be with someone who will only remain faithful to you by keeping the other person away?

[whichwayisup]

The way I would address it, is to let him know that you don't want him to lose contact with her, but to know that you should be his priority and that there are certain things you don't find acceptable.

 

And that her husband and you should be included in the friendship as well. There's no reason why ALL of you couldn't get together and be friends.

[jmargel]

Agree, I would never keep my wife away from my female friends, and they wouldn't shy away from her as well.

 

It's all about boundaries and respect.

[Mz. Pixie]

Agree, I would never keep my wife away from my female friends, and they wouldn't shy away from her as well.

 

It's all about boundaries and respect.

 

I agree. My H has two close female friends from college- one he talks to more than the other.

 

I would never ask him to choose me over them- unless something totally inappropriate was going on- such as discussing our sex life. That crosses the line and seems to imply that they know each other that way.

 

The fact that it was bothering you should have been enough for him to give her up without resentment. The fact that he has not makes me curious if it fact they were having an EA.

[Elilmomma]

I feel really bad for you, but spouse's should not have opposite sex bff's. It never works especially from what you say for him to discuss your sex life with another female period is just wrong. I say go with your gut instinct. you just have to try to trust that the friendship is really over and try to move on you will learn to trust again just be hopeful.

[jenniferc1114]

I had friends "jack & jill" that we all met at a previous work place. "jack & jill started dating and then married. We all hung out during those early years, but soon jill didn't follow the same crowd. She concentrated on her new job, her own schooling, and their daughter. Jack continued hanging out with us. They lived some 20 miles away so if we went out drinking, I thought we were "good friends" to let him stay at our home. (now mind you when I say we hung out the scene was usaually 5 work females to just the 1 male Jack in a bar or a mutual friends house) My H would sometimes join us or would be waiting for us when we got home. I usually went to bed & my h & Jack usually played some stupid video game or shared their usual nagging wife stories. (I never felt immoral about our friendship) One day his wife confronts me, she never accused me of having an affair, but addressed how a true friend would have ensured he didn't drink too much so he could drive home to his wife & child. She was right. I'm not saying it was my fault he drank too much, but I certainly enabled it. Women need to support women and I was not supporting her or her marriage. I immediatly stopped allowing him to stay over. (didn't matter others took my place...) 5 years have passed, and they are now filing for a divorce. I'm sad for them..cheating is not a factor for them...but he did share his feelings with us more then her...so yes he cheated her out of that. I'm friends with both of them still today...but not the same. I'm more of an old friend to him and a support friend to her. I do not feel even with the best intentions married men & women can be "best friends" with a member of the opposite sex.

 

As far as your story....are they still working together? Your story has a lot of similarities to mine....they were work buddies, went to eachother for support on their own marital fights, discussed eachothers sex habits...but insisted they were just friends. The only difference is your spouse was a lot more open. Mine never had her around our home or even talked to her when I was around. Mine was hiding their relationship for a reason. But even after he agreed to not talk to her anymore (and phone records proved they stopped)...she somehow got pregnant with my husbands sperm. Trust your instincts...try asking other work employees you can trust.

[Mr. Lucky]

This was about a year and some months ago. Four months ago, it came out in mc(we had this and other issues to resolve) that he was resentful about ending the friendship. He had previously told me that he was "over it" and that my sense that he still had feelings for her were wrong.

 

We are actually doing well now. I just can't seem to get over this friendship. I think it's because I need to know the truth of what was going on. It certainly felt like more than a casual friendship and yet they've both said that I was overreacting.

 

If anyone can help me figure this out, please respond.

 

Thanks.

If you are indeed doing well now, why go back to something that ended a year and a half ago? You faced a crisis as a couple and, in the dysfunctional, painful way that things often go, worked through it.

 

I may be in the minority but, given that there's no real way to find out, I don't see any upside to your marriage in dwelling on this. Just my opinion...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mz. Pixie]

I feel really bad for you, but spouse's should not have opposite sex bff's. It never works especially from what you say for him to discuss your sex life with another female period is just wrong. I say go with your gut instinct. you just have to try to trust that the friendship is really over and try to move on you will learn to trust again just be hopeful.

 

I disagree that opposite sex friendships can't be platonic because I've witnessed the two that my husband has.

 

That being said, they don't call each other every day or text or anything like that. One of his female friends and I have become great friends lately and we go to dinner with she and her boyfriend.

 

It's just that they have been friends since 1990. And nothing has ever transpired between them sexually or otherwise. No crush on each other, nada. They have been through divorces and relationship issues with each other- there is history there.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable with him talking to either of them about our sex life- which is where I think this friendship has gone wrong. I also wouldn't like feeling like the third wheel or for them to stop talking when I entered the room.

[Florida]

I posted this on the other thread but it seems to be dead now.

 

Angie, the issue now is something different than it was then because he is no longer friends with her.

 

To confirm your feelings, YES that was really messed up of him, it shows his boundaries and values and respect to you/marriage are very loose.

 

Here is my list of when an opposite sex friendship is intolerable:

-going alone to meet eachother when one or both are in a relationship to:

eachother's houses, for drinks,dinner, movie, vacations, overnight stays. Just the 2 of them.

-Sharing intimate details of your relationship with them

-And this one is very important: sexual joking.

 

Your husband crossed the line BIG time when he made a joke about running off with her and getting it on together. WHAT??? I would have flipped out. It would have been bad enough if SHE said it, but your husband is the cuplrit here too.

 

And now today, to see he is bitter over having had to cut her out of his life for you is salt in the wound.

 

I don't really have clear advice since this all happened in the past. I can only tell you that you were right, and it worries me that he was trying to convince you otherwise for his own motives. I don't believe in jokes like that. Either come out and say it or don't say it at all.

 

Then again, Mr. Lucky is right. It is too far past to figure it out now.

 

Your husband needs to address the disrespects he caused towards you, and not invalidate you with name calling like insecure, jealous, etc.

[cj1988]

I can tell you now, HE WILL NOT " Your husband needs to address the disrespects he caused towards you, and not invalidate you with name calling like insecure, jealous, etc" BECAUSE they justify that they are innocent in their little brain because they have not slept together, so they have done nothing wrong and she is just crazy and jealous. My H did the same thing and still says I was the insane one and he did nothing at all wrong ! Sad but true.....they will let you leave them before admitting to have feelings that make HER right and him wrong. What jerks !

[Florida]

I can tell you now, HE WILL NOT " Your husband needs to address the disrespects he caused towards you, and not invalidate you with name calling like insecure, jealous, etc" BECAUSE they justify that they are innocent in their little brain because they have not slept together, so they have done nothing wrong and she is just crazy and jealous. My H did the same thing and still says I was the insane one and he did nothing at all wrong ! Sad but true.....they will let you leave them before admitting to have feelings that make HER right and him wrong. What jerks !

 

That is true. Angie-when it was happening why did you feel the need to show your husband it didn't bother you?

 

You said you laughed when he made the joke about them running off together, to *show* it didn't bother you.

 

And when you came home to see conversation stop between them, you ignored it.

 

I am not blaming you at all, more that as a seperate issue entirely, it would be good for you to not brush off things as they happen to keep the peace. It always comes back later.

 

So what is your overall concern here?

Proof they did not have an affair?

Proof he did not have romantic feelings to her?

Unresolved anger at him for invalidating so as to hang on to that friend?

 

What do you think can be solved, how can he help?

 

I am of the opinion that if he can't come forward to help with those issues, the relationship is on rocky roads far bigger than this issue, and will come up again and again in different ways.

[cj1988]

That is true. Angie-when it was happening why did you feel the need to show your husband it didn't bother you?

 

You said you laughed when he made the joke about them running off together, to *show* it didn't bother you.

 

And when you came home to see conversation stop between them, you ignored it.

 

I am not blaming you at all, more that as a seperate issue entirely, it would be good for you to not brush off things as they happen to keep the peace. It always comes back later.

 

So what is your overall concern here?

Proof they did not have an affair?

Proof he did not have romantic feelings to her?

Unresolved anger at him for invalidating so as to hang on to that friend?

 

What do you think can be solved, how can he help?

 

I am of the opinion that if he can't come forward to help with those issues, the relationship is on rocky roads far bigger than this issue, and will come up again and again in different ways.

 

 

Florida, you are correct, I am living proof that it will create bigger issues. The NOT knowing is what does it everytime. The BS becomes paranoid and digs deeper and finds more info that COULD be right or wrong...you go in and out of denial until it makes you crazy.....then you start snapping at the accused and fighting over the same thing again and again. They start to resent you and you resent them until you are not even the same couple anymore. So, the answer is to either go forward and believe them or trust your gut and move on, you will NEVER know the truth because they are ashamed and scared to face it and or tell you, because then they have done something wrong and it al becomes real....what they believed to be NOTHING and NOT wrong......cycle from HELL !

[angie2443]

Thanks so much for the replies. To clear things up. My husband was the one who decided to end the friendship. My gut tells me that they are no longer in contact but there was so much emotional intensity between them that I wouldn't be completely shocked if they still communicated with each other. At one point, when we first talked about buying a house, she kept trying to convince him to move where she and her husband lived. It felt too close. They felt too close. All I can do now is trust that they no longer talk.

 

To answer the question of why I didn't want to show that the joke hurt me (I'm making a wild guess here) I think it's how I was raised to respond to sex jokes. My father told these kinds of jokes to me since I was 11 and when I asked him to stop and said that they bothered me, he told me I was a narrowminded prude and overly sensitive. I know it's messed up but I've had a problem with bounderies, regarding appropriate jokes and so on, ever since then. If someone sais something innappropriate or hurtful to me in a joking way, I ussually brush it off because I don't want to be labled as a narrowminded, over sensitive prude. In this way, I enabled the problem between my husband and I.

 

 

I realize it does no good to dwell on this past friendship. I think the reason why I continue is that I'm trying to define for myself what is and isn't respectful treatment in a relationship. For years, I've listened to my husband tell me that this (and other issues I've had with him) was in my head. That I was just bieng insecure and jealous. I don't know when to trust my mind anymore. I can't tell if he really believes what he sais or if he's manipulating me.

 

Anyways, I appreciate the replies. Sorry if I rambled, I have a headache and am not thinking to clearly. Thanks

[CraigAllen]

I have a friendship much like this and I do consider her just a friend. I don't share intimate details about sex life, but if I do share most everything else.

 

I don't know what a close friendship is if it is not intimate. That can pertain to male and female friends. If I was forced to end this friendship it would make me very sad. I would feel like... well... like I lost a good friend. I can't say that this friendship has not caused some problem in my marriage at times, but ultimately my wife has accepted this. I don't know what to tell you, but I think that sometimes these types of situations can be resolved between spouses and I am glad that in my case it has.

[whichwayisup]

Has your husband even apologized to you? Has he shown regret in how close he allowed her to him? It sounds like you need him to 'hear' you and acknowledge what you're saying and sympathize/empathize with you and the pain he's caused you, the mistrust he's put in your head because of his behaviour around her.

 

You two talk, and maybe consider marriage counselling because it's more than just the friendship, he isn't treating you with respect, let alone making you feel good about yourself.