Conversations with God

[swansong519]

Wondering if anyone here has read this book.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-...1134406&sr=1-1

 

If you follow the link and click on the pic of the book where it says "look inside"...you can give the first few pages a read to give you an idea what it's all about.

 

I found this book to be deeply profound. The writer manages to intertwine things like, different religious theologies...the "big bang theory"...quantum physics (without ever directly mentioning any of them)...all from a man that never showed a predisposition to this type of information.

 

In many ways this book is able to do what most others (if not all) are not...which is to find the middle ground between science and religion....all the while being neither a book about religion or science.

 

I would very much like to discuss this book with anyone that has read it.

Edited January 24, 2008 by swansong519

[The Studmuffin]

i'm here!!! pick me pick me pick me!

 

i have read this book, all three, and i have recommended it to anyone that i thought had the smallest interest in spirituality or making a change in their own life for the better. and with those that actually read it (them), i discussed it to pieces.

 

in my opinion, it's a wonderful book. it touched me in so many ways, so many times. it sounds like a cliché from a lame movie, but this book changed my life more than anything so far. many things in it were just simply such a revelation... things i had been waiting, yearning to hear, read or learn. they matched with so many unspoken thoughts in me. and people may say: "why god? who's this guy to say he's talking to god? i don't believe in god anyway" but like it said at one point in the book: what does it matter if it's god or not, if you read it and it touches you or resonates with something inside of you, it's truth. as much as watching a beautiful sunset or kissing the person you love.

 

and you have a good point about religion and science. the book says there's not really a difference. we created the difference, we created these two different ways of thinking, these two different systems that you can believe in. pick only one. but yeah, what's the difference. it's all life, isn't it? it's all about what you see and hear and know and feel and experience.

[swansong519]

Hey there:)

 

Considering how many copies this book has sold and the amount of time it spent on the best sellers list, I am very surprised that I haven't encountered more people that have read it.

 

Like you, I have mentioned it to many people...and am usually met with blank stares or poilite acknowledgements...lol

 

It made me think more than any book I have ever read. It provided the sense of giving me information that I had always seemed to know instinctively but hadn't been able to verbalize.

 

I am a big fan of ideas over beliefs...so I haven't turned this book into my new religion...but it certainly has altered my view of the world and my interactions with others.

 

What has your experience been with sharing the book with others? Has anyone taken to it like you have?

[The Studmuffin]

yes, a number of them have. i have met some people that had already read it, and with some of them i had good talks about the book. other people read it after i suggested they do, and yeah, many of them actually liked it.

 

although the experience is definitely not the same for everyone. some say "yeah, it's a cool book, lots of nice ideas" and for others it "shakes up their existence" (like it did for me) and really provides them with useful perceptions on life and philosophies.

 

if you're on facebook, you should look up groups about this book, there are a number of good ones. i'm a part of a good one. interesting discussions going on there... and you can see how far and wide the popularity of this book has gone.

 

have you read them all three?

[swansong519]

I have not read all 3. The first book was lent to me by a friend...and I have recently received the "anniversary edition"...all 3 books in one and have just started re reading the first book.

 

I have read "Friendship with God".

 

The book speaks to many of the ideas I have had about God and spirituality.

 

The idea that God is not a egotistical, demanding, vengeful and dictatorial entity is certainly something I have always thought.

 

How could the all loving creator of the universe be so small as to care where I spend a couple hours on Sunday? Or what food I eat on Friday?

 

How could he claim to love me unconditionally and then threaten to punish me to eternal damnation if I don't follow his directives to the letter?

 

Why would he give me free will but not allow me to use it?

 

This book brings to light the idea that life is not a series of tests to determine if I am worthy of the ultimate destination...but more a journey that allows me to determine (or remember) for myself, who I am.

 

I must admit...the ideas in the bok, while enlightening and mind expanding...are not as easy to put into practice. It is difficult to let go of all the preconceived notions of God. It is also very frightening to think that my entire life is under my control and that if I am not satisfied with the way things are, I am the only one that can change it.

 

It puts the control over our lives back in our hands...and thats a little intimidating. Especially for people who have delivered their futures into the hands of an invisible entity.

[The Studmuffin]

very true. an important point, that last one. but it's the most important part. people HAVE TO start taking responsability for their toughts and actions and stop seeing themselves as victims of their own lives. the events in their lives, accidents, sicknesses, lovers, happiness... it's not so much coincidence as a product of people's (too often unconscious) thinking.

 

but it's true, it can be intimidating. and it's also something that takes time to learn and master. and not EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING is under our control, or that is my opinion. there are still currents in our lives that come from some deeper or higher place. we still have periods, sometimes unhappy ones, that are not exactly what we wished for. we have to have these periods too. life still always has ups and downs. and at these moments we can't blame ourselves for what's happening, and we have to keep the faith. it will pass. and creative thinking still works! well, that's what i think. i've had my couple of tough moments, dealing with how all this works

 

and what you say about the idea of god is so true. i wasn't buying into that load of crap neither. life is just too beautiful for god to fit those crazy ideas. and it was really good to have somebody finally tell me that god was on my side, and that we could just be friends!

[annieo]

... life is just too beautiful for god to fit those crazy ideas. and it was really good to have somebody finally tell me that god was on my side, and that we could just be friends!

 

Beautifully put, god as a friend. Love it, will use it as a thought to get me through tomorrow.

[Moai]

Beautifully put, god as a friend. Love it, will use it as a thought to get me through tomorrow.

 

It seems that you forgot the word "imaginary" in your first sentence, i.e. "god as an imaginary friend."

[swansong519]

It seems that you forgot the word "imaginary" in your first sentence, i.e. "god as an imaginary friend."

 

So you've read the books then?

[Moai]

So you've read the books then?

 

I read the first one many years ago while working at a bookstore as a seasonal job.

 

I think that its great that the "ReCreation Foundation" has classes you can take for only $800 that help you not only realize the New Spirituality in your own life, but help you share the concepts found in Conversations With God with others! Also, for $3,000 you can attend a seminar about "Life Change"--provided that your application is approved. Their list of Life Coaches on=staff is truly impressive. As I am sure we are all aware, life-coaching isn't a scam AT ALL and it is only right that people should pay for classes in "spiritual growth" and passing on the powerful truths found in "Conversations."

 

Here is a link to their website: http://www.cwg.org/main.php

 

I can't wait until I have enough money saved up so I can experience "full-scale spiritual renewal." It's going to be awesome.

[swansong519]

So, you don't get paid for the work you do?

 

Priests don't get paid?

 

The schools that train them don't require tuitions?

 

Churches don't ask for money?

 

The Catholic Church didn't just settle a 600,000,000 dollar molestation lawsuit? Where did all that money come from...hmmmm....God, I guess...

Edited February 14, 2008 by swansong519

[Moai]

So, you don't get paid for the work you do?

 

Priests don't get paid?

 

The schools that train them don't require tuitions?

 

Churches don't ask for money?

 

The Catholic Church didn't just settle a 600,000,000 dollar molestation lawsuit? Where did all that money come from...hmmmm....God, I guess...

 

I never said that the Catholic Church wasn't corrupt. Every Christian sect I am aware of gives Bibles away for free, and doesn't charge for church services--any tithing is voluntary. Even for Catholics.

 

If the "Conversations With God" movement is ordaining ministers, that is one thing. Priests (and most reputable theology schools) require their students to take English, Math, Philosophy, and History classes as part of their ordination.

 

Do their seminars include such things? Nope.

 

It is also a huge red flag that god has ideas about his "perfect" political system the those into the New Spirituality must try to implement.

 

I can also point out parts that are demonstrably false. The book suggests, if I remember right, that feelings are more important as a decision-making tool than the intellect. This is not so, as modern neuroscience shows that emotions and intellect are inextricably linked. There is no dualism between reason and emotion. Studies done with people who have experienced traumatic brain injury show that if you lose your intellect you can no longer function at all, and if you lose your emotions your decision-making is severely hampered.

 

There is also the moral question of choosing your circumstances. Is it rational to suggest that a soul "chose" to be put in the body of a woman so she could be raped, and then have her brother set her on fire and push her out of a sixth-story window because she dishonored her family? Did the little Jewish children go to the gas chambers by their own choice, for the "experience"?

 

Consider the reincarnation thing. You regressed in this life, so you are punished in the next. But someone must do the punishing, and so THEY will in turn be punished, and on and on and on. If one is an instrument of Karma, how can we punish murderers, as they are doing what karma requires? And what did all those souls do in the 19th Century to merit the genocides and mass-murders of the 20th?

 

And why book after book after book? I count 18 different volumes and workbooks. Most religions only have one (and you get it for free).

 

Lastly, much of what is written can be found elsewhere. If one is really interested in such things, why not go to the source and study philosophy? You can do that for free from any library in the Western World. Start with David Hume, he's great.

[Ronni_W]

So, you don't get paid for the work you do?

Swan,

With due respect and Highest Frequencies...you are derailing your own thread

 

For me, what is beautiful about the CWG series is that it suggests that we each choose our own system of beliefs and principles based on what makes sense for us at any given point in our Soul development.

 

More importantly, that we allow others to do the same. EDIT TO ADD: From whatever texts and sources they choose. Moai may not feel particularly drawn to CWG, and that is fine.

 

In The New Revelations (also by Neale), it says to "live your life as demonstrations of your highest and grandest beliefs..."

 

Of course we must observe what the Catholic Church is doing, as well as all other religious, political and corporate organizations, with the intention of choosing what reality we want to see manifest. But slamming any of them seems out of place with what I understood was your intention of starting this thread -- maybe it is my "high belief" that is out of whack, though

 

Sending Love and Light to all.

 

EDIT: Sorry -- What I meant is, your are in danger of derailing your thread, rather than it's already gone off-track. Just wanted to give a heads-up, really.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Ronni_W

[Moai]

More importantly, that we allow others to do the same. EDIT TO ADD: From whatever texts and sources they choose. Moai may not feel particularly drawn to CWG, and that is fine.

 

In The New Revelations (also by Neale), it says to "live your life as demonstrations of your highest and grandest beliefs..."

 

 

 

Thank you, and I certainly respect the right of anyone to believe anything they want, but that doesn't mean I respect the belief itself.

 

Is it wrong to examine "Conversations With God" skeptically? While many people might feel great after reading it (and the other 17 volumes), that is not indicative of the truth of the ideas.

 

Ideas don't exist in a vacuum. They spurn people to action, and in many instances this leads to tragedy and folly. If someone were on these boards singing the praises of Heaven's Gate, wouldn't it be immoral of me not to point out the fallacies and danger in such beliefs? It may help, it may not, but one MUST do something.

 

If anyone wants to spend $4500 to go to a hotel and "learn" from someone who has appointed himself a spiritual "expert" than more power to them if they can afford it. I think that such a person is more of a marketing expert than anything.

 

I think that to take any of this seriously, one must challenge the assumptions made in these books. First, that there is a soul. There is no evidence that humans have any such thing, so start by proving THAT (which nobody has been able to do since the dawn of Man), then start talking about what such an eventuality actually means. Otherwise, it is just one guy making stuff up--or in this case, borrowing from this philosopher and that, over-simplifying the concepts and ignoring the contradictory parts to make them seem seamless (which they are certainly not) and selling it as something new. The books themselves admit that none of this is new, but these ideas are so important that they need to be repeated--whatever that means.

 

Why not read Schopenhauer or Nietzsche for yourself? Or Rousseau or Locke? Or even Descartes or Voltaire or Hume? These men are involved in the real "conversation" (CWG borrows from them liberally and not always correctly, as I mentioned) and you can read them for free, or get even more by taking a few philosophy classes at your local university. Sure, it may cost you $100 a credit or so, but afterward you are closer to a degree--something that has tangible benefit. Way cheaper than $4500 and you can do it at home.

 

If the thread is derailed it is entirely my fault, but since my little joke was responded to I decided to jump in. If this thread is intended as a mutual-congratulatory one (I do not mean that pejoratively) then by all means ignore me and I will desist.

[swansong519]

I don't have time for a full blown discussion right now...

 

But...this thread was not intended to be about cheerleading the series. It was about discussing it. I have my own issues with some of the writings.

 

I am not what most would define as a "believer"...about anything. I prefer ideas and discussion to hard and fast beliefs. So feel free to share your thoughts.

 

My comments were simply a reminder that finances play a role in every aspect of society (including the many religious institutions)...and in some cases, larger than others. Does receiving money for one's product or service somehow remove it's "value"?

 

I'm sure you're both aware of Walsh's writings about the receiving of money for the sale of the books, etc...

 

Truth is, spirituality/universal energy, whatever you want to call it, has always been something I just "felt"...never something I read about, studied or had imposed upon me (although I am Catholic and did go to catechism when I was young because my parents desired it....but they did not persist as I got a little older).

 

And although I'm sure I will be no match for the philosophical and spiritual intellect you both obviously possess.... I look forward to the conversation, none-the-less.

 

I find it's difficult to keep spiritual and politcal threads on topic...which is understandable...and if this one slides off the rails a bit, that's fine. If the original topic is found to be worthy of discussion then it will get back on track. If not...that's life...

 

So...with that in mind...Have at it...

 

Oh...and with all due respect Moai...I've heard mannnnny jokes (I'd even be happy to tell you a few)......and IMHO your comment sounded more like derision and sarcasm than an attempt to amuse.

Edited February 14, 2008 by swansong519

[The Studmuffin]

i agree that this topic has gone a bit off track.

Moai, you can be sure that anybody who's read the book and talked about it is aware of all it's downsides, and not only downsides but other peoples' negative opinion about them, like yours.

 

so, knowing this and recognizing it, i would prefer to keep this thread going, but focussing on the contructive parts, talking about what we like about this book.

 

and that can be done 100% without mentioning the ReCreation Foundation, money, Hume, Descartes or scientific evidence.

 

i actually agree that a lot of what Walsh has done after publishing these books is a lot like huge commercial enterprise, and i don't like it so much. but i choose to ignore it. it takes your focus off the message in these books. and you can do perfectly well without thinking about it.

 

and you don't need to read 18 books. Conversation With God is a trilogy, and I read only the three first books. i tried to read Friendship with God (may even have finished it), but found nothing new. just repetitions of the same, and not as powerful.

 

so swansong, and anybody else, if you're interested to keep talking constructively about this book, i'm still in!

[Ronni_W]

Conversation With God is a trilogy, and I read only the three first books. i tried to read Friendship with God (may even have finished it), but found nothing new. just repetitions of the same, and not as powerful.

You're so right about it becoming repetitious. I choose to see that as, to get a message out, maybe we (humanity) just need different media and sources so that people can choose what speaks best to them.

 

I tried a few times and couldn't get into ANY of the "Conversations" books. But I was blown away by "The New Revelations", which led me to "Communion With God", which I also liked. I don't think I've finished "Friendship", either.

But all the books do contain interesting points of view (it doesn't matter if we call them theories, ideas, opinions or "new age mumbo jumbo" ) that can make for interesting contemplations and conversations, if we allow.

 

For me, one doesn't have to believe in "God" or "Divine Intelligence" or any other higher power to use the books' contents to gain some new insight or find new ways to make sense of this thing we call Life. In fact, one can read it as pure fiction, and it won't change anything of import.

And that's exactly what I appreciate best, about Neale's works -- it guides us to choose what we feel is "right and proper" for ourselves, and to allow others the same choice.

 

Sending Love and Light.

[swansong519]

"maybe we (humanity) just need different media and sources so that people can choose what speaks best to them."

 

To draw a rather non spiritual example...I really enjoy golf....and there are literally hundreds of thousands of books and magazines all essentially talking about the same thing (the golf swing).

But even though the information isn't new, I still find some articles that really help me understand the golf swing more clearly. The reason being that each article explains the swing a little differently...phrased a little differently...uses different analogies and imagery...and you never know when a fresh explaination will help to crystalize the theory.

 

"For me, one doesn't have to believe in "God" or "Divine Intelligence" or any other higher power to use the books' contents to gain some new insight or find new ways to make sense of this thing we call Life."

 

Couldn't agree more with this point. As I said, I'm not what you would call a "believer" but I find much in these books that speaks to me on a non spiritual level.

Even though, as Moai stated, many of the theories put forward in the series is available from other philosophical, spiritual and scientific sources, this is still the first book I've read that finds a way to blend them all into a cohesive, readable theory. That in itself I find to be no small achievement.

Edited February 16, 2008 by swansong519

[The Studmuffin]

In fact, one can read it as pure fiction, and it won't change anything of import. And that's exactly what I appreciate best, about Neale's works -- it guides us to choose what we feel is "right and proper" for ourselves, and to allow others the same choice.

 

couldn't have said it better! so true, so true. and super-important!

 

and speaking of philosophers and bringing ideas forth again and again, what moai didn't think about is that even all those philosophers he mentioned take, work on, rephrase, put into new context, mold, DEVELOP ideas that have been put forward before. this is often the case. there is nothing supremely original about big names in history. and there doesn't have to be. and not with these books either. in my language we have a saying: A good rhyme is never too often repeated.

 

has anybody taken a look at Conversation with God for teenagers?

this one interests me a bit. i actually kind of wish i would that i'd found CwG when i was a teenager myself... it would've helped a lot! at a time when all the information i was getting from everywhere was useless and i felt like an outsider... you know, the same mumbo jumbo from teachers, parents, your friends, social norms, political correctness... i really could have done with encouragement to do my own original thinking. i could have done with a boost of confidence. but anyway, i did my own original thinking anyway. and now, 10 years later i think i'll have a look at CwG for teenagers anyway! i'll just give it to my little sister if it's good.