Guys, would you have sex with your best friend's girlfriend?

[Ariadne]

Anyway, I already told him directly that I didn't want to when he emailed me to arrange a get together, and I turned him down. The door has been closed for now. Capisci?

 

Yes... yes...

 

Now you want the "friend" to adore you.

 

Not just agree to meet and get it over with.

 

I bet you are obsessing with the friend by now.

 

Your decision to stay with the bf is to save face.

[shadowplay]

I told the guy I like in the email that it's best if we only hang out when my bf is around. Now the guy asked my bf if we could all hang out tonight or tomorrow night, and I agreed. Is this a good idea? I'm conflicted because I want to see him again since I like him, but it seems like it will be super awkward with all three of us there. What do you guys think?

[shadowplay]

Anyway, I already told him directly that I didn't want to when he emailed me to arrange a get together, and I turned him down. The door has been closed for now. Capisci?

 

Yes... yes...

 

Now you want the "friend" to adore you.

 

Not just agree to meet and get it over with.

 

I bet you are obsessing with the friend by now.

 

Your decision to stay with the bf is to save face.

 

Not so much save face as do the right thing. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I dumped by bf for this guy. That would be horribly cruel.

 

By the way, the guy said in his response to my turning-him-down email that he never felt like the whole thing was a good idea (as it would jeopardize his friendship with my bf), but often he makes bad decisions. So I don't think he's as much of a cad as some of you are making him out to be.

Edited January 26, 2008 by shadowplay

[Ariadne]

I told the guy I like in the email that it's best if we only hang out when my bf is around. Now the guy asked my bf if we could all hang out tonight or tomorrow night, and I agreed. Is this a good idea? I'm conflicted because I want to see him again since I like him, but it seems like it will be super awkward with all three of us there. What do you guys think?

 

Just meet him and get it over with.

 

At least you'd get to see him. Seems like he is interested.

 

And don't worry about your bf, you guys never had anything deep going on, it was all make believe.

 

Now, the friend "can" turn out to be another pimp though.

 

Like when you were smoking and he touched your fingers, and asked you if you "had a brother."

 

I mean, who gives a fk, he could be of the "suave" type.

 

Tricky situation tough.

[Ariadne]

Hi,

 

Not so much save face as do the right thing. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I dumped by bf for this guy. That would be horribly cruel.

 

It woudn't be cruel. Is not like is the love of the century or something. You are not feeling it and like someone else. It happens.

 

that he never felt like the whole thing was a good idea (as it would jeopardize his friendship with my bf), but often he makes bad decisions.

 

Well, it was a situation that was forced upon by the fact that you made a confidence to your bf, and given that that other guy is his best friend, he shared it with him as well. So it turned out kind of weird and cold like that.

 

Seems like he likes you though.

[shadowplay]

Hi,

 

Not so much save face as do the right thing. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I dumped by bf for this guy. That would be horribly cruel.

 

It woudn't be cruel. Is not like is the love of the century or something. You are not feeling it and like someone else. It happens.

 

 

Yeah, but it's his best friend. It would be different if it were some guy he didn't know.

[Ariadne]

Yeah, but it's his best friend. It would be different if it were some guy he didn't know.

 

Well,

 

There's people that dump a girl for their sister and the world goes on.

 

It happens. What can you do.

[shadowplay]

 

And don't worry about your bf, you guys never had anything deep going on, it was all make believe.

 

That may be true, but I don't get it. There were moments where I felt really close to and in love with him, and then the feeling just vanished... Like a few days ago I was feeling in love with him, and today when I saw him I felt almost numb. How is that possible? I wonder if there's something wrong with me, and I would be this way with any guy.

 

I'm starting to wonder if either I'm just not monogamous by nature, or I haven't find the right guy and would feel different if I did.

[Ariadne]

That may be true, but I don't get it. There were moments where I felt really close to and in love with him, and then the feeling just vanished...

 

It was not love.

 

He just made your world better, happier, more exciting.

 

That's what you liked.

 

And the fact that you wanted to be loved.

[BUENG1]

I told the guy I like in the email that it's best if we only hang out when my bf is around. Now the guy asked my bf if we could all hang out tonight or tomorrow night, and I agreed. Is this a good idea? I'm conflicted because I want to see him again since I like him, but it seems like it will be super awkward with all three of us there. What do you guys think?

 

I think its a bad idea. I'm surprised your boyfriend is ok with it. If your committed to your boyfriend, then you should probably hang out with him as little as possible. I'd also imagine that if you do anything but completely ignore the other guy, your boyfriend will be pretty pissed off. And the friend is probably just saving face. Its easy to say when you clearly try to do something bad and then someone else stops you that you were never going to do it anyways.

[Stockalone]

If your best friend came to you and said, "My girlfriend wants to sleep with you, and I'm not too happy about it, but I won't stand in the way."

 

Either your boyfriend has completely lost his mind (and once he remembers where he lost his balls, he might find his mind right next to them) and doesn't know what he is doing right now or he just doesn't mind an open relationship that much.

 

I just can't fathom how else he could even think about making that offer to his best friend. You also said that he mentioned the idea of a threesome, was that before or after your little mishap?

 

 

 

By the way, the guy said in his response to my turning-him-down email that he never felt like the whole thing was a good idea (as it would jeopardize his friendship with my bf), but often he makes bad decisions. So I don't think he's as much of a cad as some of you are making him out to be.

 

Well, he didn't appear to be reluctant when he agreed to your bf's offer and

 

... even mentioned a time a place where we could "do it" as if I just wanted a f!ck and run.

.

 

And now, after being turned down which has in no way influenced his response, he has come to the conclusion that the whole thing wasn't a good idea to begin with. Do you really believe that?

 

 

 

I told the guy I like in the email that it's best if we only hang out when my bf is around. Now the guy asked my bf if we could all hang out tonight or tomorrow night, and I agreed. Is this a good idea? I'm conflicted because I want to see him again since I like him, but it seems like it will be super awkward with all three of us there. What do you guys think?

 

Personally, I think that is a horrible idea but I am still puzzled by your bf's behaviour. Is he really that desperate that he would do anything, no matter how humiliating, to keep the relationship going?

[shadowplay]

Is he really that desperate that he would do anything, no matter how humiliating, to keep the relationship going?

 

It's hard to explain, but if you knew him you wouldn't be surprised. He's extremely laid back, controlled, and passive. It's very rare that I've seen him angry and even then it's tempered. He keeps his emotions under wraps. So it's rare that he'll say no to anything. (As a sidenote I have often found it disconcerting to be around someone who always stays on the surface of experience. The only thing more unnerving in a person than a brick wall of bitterness is a brick wall of light-hearted indifference. Everything is a joke to him. I'd be shocked to ever see him shed a tear, even at a funeral.)

 

He's the type of guy to let a girl walk all over him, which I have been somewhat guilty of doing. He always wants to make everyone happy and generally puts his needs last.

 

And he may also be desperate to hold on to me because he's had bad luck with girls in the past. I'm only his second semi long term gf (6 months is his longest relationship), and he claims his first love. He's also indicated that he probably wants to marry me eventually.

 

We made other plans and didn't hang out with the friend over the weekend but we may tomorrow or Tuesday night. We'll see how that goes.... I'm putting it off because the whole thing makes me nervous.

 

I confronted my bf on Friday night and basically said "How can you be cool with the fact that I did this? Don't you want out of the relationship? You deserve better." I told him that our relationship might be irrevocably damaged and how some things can't be unsaid. I was sort of nudging him towards seeing the light and breaking up with me. No such luck.

 

He claims his feelings for me have not changed in the slightest, and he thinks there has been no permanent damage. I don't get it. If anything, this whole ordeal has increased his feelings. Tonight on several occasions he said out of the blue, "I'm totally, totally in love with you, Shadowplay." Just two weeks ago he "thought" he was in love with me but there was a shred of doubt. I asked him what changed, and he said he just changed his mind recently. I can tell he's being genuine because I have a good BS detector. This is what I had been waiting for all along, but now it just seems disturbing given the way I've treated him. What gives? Is he a glutton for punishment?

 

He knows I'm extremely attracted to his friend. How can he just ignore that and go on like everything's cool? The whole thing is weird...

 

I lied...I don't understand him. Does he have any real emotions beneath the surface? How can he be so indifferent and disconnected? It's not human.

 

I'm still so torn. Because I do have a great time with my bf and we connect on many levels, just not deeply. I confess that I also enjoy the feeling of being loved, even if by someone I don't feel quite the same about. I don't want to lose that feeling.

 

I wonder if I'm even capable of loving anybody period. I thought I was in love with my bf, but now realize I'm not. That means I've never been in love with any guy I've dated. I've had very intense crushes but always from a distance, so I don't know if it would be different with those guys. I guess that explains my curiosity in his friend. I want to know what it's like to be with somebody I have a crush on first.

 

Even when I think about my family I sometimes wonder if I love them. I know I would be devestated if my brother or either of my parents died, but I rarely actually "feel" the love unless I imagine losing them. This has always disturbed me. Is that normal? Or am I just emotionally stunted? It's weird because my emotions are often intense, but they're either short-lived or directed at unattainable people/objects. I tend to feel love in a more artistic way. Like a scene in a movie, a passage in a book, or a random passing house may stir intense feelings in me akin to love...but it's usually directed more at things than people, or attached to passing feelings of nostalgia. I know what love feels like, because I've felt it before, in passing, but I've never been able to sustain that feeling towards another person that I'm close to.

 

Sounds terrible...but often people seem too mundane to inspire love, unless they're pared down to their most interesting parts by the romanticism that distance affords. Maybe I have no soul... It's funny because my bf said in high school he sold his soul for a carton of chocolate milk, and he's been superstitious about it ever since.

 

Sorry, for rambling...

Edited January 28, 2008 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

Any other input on my bf's odd reaction?

 

Anyway, I'm going to paste some of our correspondences from last week. I tried to post them a few days ago, but I was in moderated status at that time so they never went through.

 

Hey Shadowplay,

I'm sorry for the whole S--- situation, perhaps I didn't handle it properly. There was an awkward moment between me and S--- and it just came out. Still, I feel as though I am (and was) being treated unfairly. I have been wary of the idea from the beginning, and have tried to politely convey that to you. I went along with it because it was what you wanted. If only you could make up your mind.

 

It's okay if you want to take a step back, I just don't feel that I should be responsible for it. You wanted S---, so fine, I agreed. Then when I told him (albeit not by your instructions) you accused me of treason. I feel that by agreeing to such a request I've gone above and beyond social faux-pas to make you happy. Now all I ask is that you keep me as uninvolved with the whole idea as possible. If you want S---, fine. His number is ----; Do what you will, but promise me that you won't utter (or type) his name to me ever again.

 

I suppose what irks me more than anything else is that I feared that this attraction would wreck our relationship or my friendship with S---. Despite my efforts it has come to that. The situation definitely has some Macbethian irony.

Sorry that these words may be more biting than usual, but I feel vindicated in being angry. You ambushed me into saying that I wasn't capable of loving fully (as you define it) as an excuse to pursue S---. You wanted to break up with me for that, then when I said I'd help you, and then did [basically] as you asked and you accused me of being disloyal. I told S--- the truth as you told it to me. Why must you swim in a sea of constant confusion? I'll say it: this S-- business hurts. It hurts that a little Beatles small talk and pot will make you want to jump ship so easily. It hurts that all the in bed comments like, "you can trust me" and "I don't want to hurt you" or "I love you so much" would be so quickly overlooked. I guess they don't call them "sweet nothings" for nothing.

 

With regards to the "whoreish" comment in your first email. Your justifications made me feel as if it were the truth. I told S--- the truth. Besides, you put me in a place you knew I didn't want to be in. This isn't 7th grade and I'm not a platonic female friend; I have a great deal of feelings for you.

Now that all that's out there, I just wanted to let you know that I love you very much. I agreed to the arrangement because I thought it would make you happy. I do think about you frequently and miss you, even from [the city where we now live]. I came back to [this city] because of you; you said you wanted to live in the same city (NY was also dragging on my soul). I'm glad you liked the chocolate rose, and (I hope) the real ones. I love seeing you satisfied, and I have enjoyed feeling my love for you grow over the past months. It is my sincerest hope that our love is given the opportunity to grow in future. I am truly sorry that our relationship has become so strained by this.

 

My bed if finally summoning.

 

~XXXX

 

My response:

 

XXXX,

 

I appreciate your honesty, even when it was hard to read.

 

You're perfectly justified in your feelings and anger. I would feel the same in your position. I've mistreated you, and I am sorry for that.

 

I know my words may now ring hollow, but I do care about you. Everything I said to you about how I feel felt true in the moment, including the bad things. Welcome to the confusing place that is my brain. If anything I have been too candid; I should have never brought up certain topics.

 

I won't lie. I've felt torn at times. I don't know how it is possible to both love somebody and want something more, but that seems to be have been the case. I suspect it is commitment phobia, or a fear of giving my all only to find myself alone at the finish line.

 

Throughout our relationship, I've been plagued with anxiety and I'm not sure why. This hasn't been the case in my past relationships even though, in all honesty, I had much weaker feelings for them than I do for you. Perhaps it is precisely because my feelings for you are stronger, so I have more to lose.

 

But I think it's something more. I'm someone who needs total commitment from the other partner to feel fully secure in a relationship. I realize this is an unreasonable expectation to hang on you. I'm not angry at you for not being this way. This is just the way you are, and it's probably healthy, but (unfortunately) it happens to trigger a lot of my insecurities. I think it's hard when both people in a relationship have problems trusting, because neither may trust fully until the other shows total commitment.

 

It was unfair that I denied you the chance to change the behavior that was making me anxious (poor communication when we're apart). I guess I assumed from my cynical standpoint that people don't change, and it was a lost cause. I will try to give you more of a chance in the future.

 

It's not clear to me if I would feel this way in any relationship with someone I cared about, or it's something about us. That is why I've been torn. I also tend to idealize what I don't have based on very little information. The grass is greener mentality and all that.

 

Now that you understand how pronounced my confusion is, perhaps you will understand why I need to take a step back to sort my head out. I hope things work out for the best. I am truly sorry that I have hurt you so. Where's a De Lorean when you need one?

 

After all this heaviness, I'm looking forward to a little light-hearted fun.

 

-Shadowplay

 

His response the next day after we saw each other again:

 

Hey Shadowplay,

Thank you for this email, it made my day. I enjoyed very much watching the official "best movie ever" with you, and hope that you did too.

As always I wanted to express that I love you very much. I think the S--- business annoyed me because it threatened what we've cultivated over that past months. I suppose the sex was not what really worried me, but instead that you felt that I couldn't provide what you sought. I feel my love growing for you daily, and am deeply in love with you now. I hope for both our sake that we can continue to grow our trust long into the future.

 

Upon reflection I feel that I am not emotionally crippled, and am confident that the emotional closeness which you seek can be reached. I may just grow to trust slower than some, but so is the way of the cautious.

 

I'm sorry that my communication when we are apart has been sub-par at times. Perhaps this email will allay some of your fears. I want very much to solve any problems we may encounter.

 

Alas alas, we didn't see Henry V yesterday. Perhaps this week could be the week to take in some high-brow entertainment.

 

--- played an acoustic version of "love will tear us apart" tonight and I thought of you; JD is slowly rubbing off on me. If only Joy Division did a funk album.

I had better quit while I am way way behind. I look forward to a silly and wonderful response.

 

Love,

 

XXXX

[peace_pipe]

It's hard to explain, but if you knew him you wouldn't be surprised. He's extremely laid back, controlled, and passive. It's very rare that I've seen him angry and even then it's tempered. He keeps his emotions under wraps.

 

This explains it all. You have no respect for this man.

[shadowplay]

This explains it all. You have no respect for this man.

 

Huh? How does that indicate I have no respect for him? That's just the way he is -- anybody who knew him would agree with that description, and aside from calling him "passive" it's not an especially negative one. I wish I were as emotionally controlled as he is a lot of the time.

[spookie]

So much drama.

 

I didn't read everything. But I read 80%. And IMO the exact details are irrelevent. WHY IS THERE SO MUCH DRAMA IN THIS RELATIONSHIP? Is drama all it's comprised of? It almost seems to me that you guys don't connect on a deep level and this is the substitute for what in normal R's is that happy-to-your-toes feeling that people get from being understood.

 

What the he!! is the point of this?

[shadowplay]

So much drama.

 

I didn't read everything. But I read 80%. And IMO the exact details are irrelevent. WHY IS THERE SO MUCH DRAMA IN THIS RELATIONSHIP? Is drama all it's comprised of? It almost seems to me that you guys don't connect on a deep level and this is the substitute for what in normal R's is that happy-to-your-toes feeling that people get from being understood.

 

What the he!! is the point of this?

 

Aside from this whole friend debacle, which seems to have subsided for now, there really hasn't been much drama. I've had a few freakouts, but they're usually internal. We've only had one real fight, and that was in an im conversation and resolved quickly. Most of the time when we're together we have a blast...I just obsess a ton, especially when we're apart. That's why I'm not sure if it's worth ending things. I really enjoy his company (he's funny, sweet, smart and affectionate), and I'm afraid I'll miss him. I'm not in love with him, but I don't know if that's enough reason to end our relationship.

Edited January 28, 2008 by shadowplay

[mortensorchid]

Dude, this is just strange. I sounds like someone is testing your loyalties. Irregardless of what it is they are testing from you, you tell your friend and his girlfriend to go back to their trailer park and find someone else to play this white trash game with.

[spookie]

Aside from this whole friend debacle, which seems to have subsided for now, there really hasn't been much drama. I've had a few freakouts, but they're usually internal. We've only had one real fight, and that was in an im conversation and resolved quickly. Most of the time when we're together we have a blast...I just obsess a ton, especially when we're apart. That's why I'm not sure if it's worth ending things. I really enjoy his company (he's funny, sweet, smart and affectionate), and I'm afraid I'll miss him. I'm not in love with him, but I don't know if that's enough reason to end our relationship.

 

In that case IMO you're so focused on what's going on behind hte scenes in your relationship that you're not giving yourself enough room to fall in love. Can you let completely for for a solid month, say, and just trust him? No freaking out, no analyzation. Have a good time when you do, but try not getting angry (cause i think 99% of your anger is just overanalyzation and could be avoided if you just THOUGHT less). See what happens. You might find out you love him.

[Florida]

His pride is in the gutter and he will hold on to you, so far as arranging a session with his friend.

 

Okay, his heart is yours, maybe this was the only way to get it. Who knows?

 

I have no advice or observations, Shadow, this has deviated off the charts from any standpoint of normal reactions in any given situation.

 

Maybe now he will worship you, his mother was crazy, perhaps he needed this from you to feel anything profound.

[oppath]

His pride is in the gutter and he will hold on to you, so far as arranging a session with his friend.

 

Okay, his heart is yours, maybe this was the only way to get it. Who knows?

 

I have no advice or observations, Shadow, this has deviated off the charts from any standpoint of normal reactions in any given situation.

 

Maybe now he will worship you, his mother was crazy, perhaps he needed this from you to feel anything profound.

 

Or, his self esteem took a hit he does not understand, and he needs to keep her in his life so she can alleviate the pain. Keeping her in his life demonstrates he has value and worth. It means he is lovable. People do some irrational things when threatened with a breakup or losing someone they care about. They also make bad choices.

 

Shadow, if you were just a friend, and your guy friend came to you and said "my gf suggested this," what advice would you give him?

[wizer]

If she was cute with a nice figure, sure, why not?

[BlueEyedGirl]

Yet another proof that the worse you treat people, the more they love you. Funny how he has issues with trust and now that it was actually proven that he can't trust you, he falls in love more than ever. This is so fu$ked up. Both of you have major issues. I predict this ending very, very badly.

[Florida]

Yet another proof that the worse you treat people, the more they love you. Funny how he has issues with trust and now that it was actually proven that he can't trust you, he falls in love more than ever. This is so fu$ked up. Both of you have major issues. I predict this ending very, very badly.

 

That's what I was thinking too. I've seen proof of this too much to refute it. But it has to be done a certain way. For example, a girl can't just nag and nag, then dump the guy thinking he will love her more.

 

No, she has to keep it all inside, put on a very even keeled front no matter what issues may arise, continue being perfect and loving.

 

Then WHAM come out of left field with a guilty admonition of liking the best friend, or cousin, or an ex and the guy pines for her forever. It is like a formula, I've seen it happen too many times in real life to dismiss it's reality of devoted love as the end result.

 

But I do disagree with one part Blue eyes, I don't think it will end badly, if Shadow says she wants this guy back, he will do anything if she snaps her fingers from here on out.He will call devotedly, buy her presents, anything.

[Jilly Bean]

SP - this is all profoundly disturbing to me. Wow, is all I can say.

 

The thing I find so interesting about you as an individual, is that you seem to possess a good degree of intelligence, a higher than average self-awareness, yet you always seem to be three steps behind exercising good judgment and then playing damage control in your relationships. I would have to imagine this either has to get old to you, or perhaps it's something you thrive on. I don't know that answer yet, but I find your behavior to always be purely fascinating as a casual observer.

 

I can't wait to see how this all fleshes out. I hope with minimal damage to all those involved...