She confessed...

[stampdaddy]

this is pointless with a few of you... "GOD, can you watch over MM's family and keep them safe, and guide MM to make the right decisions, whatever they may be....?"

[THE THRONE]

If you're going to spout gleeful wishes for suicide in a serious thread, at least have the self-respect to speak in the first person for once.

 

I never said anything about wishing suicide. I said if she did it. These are two different things here, friend. As far as speaking in the first person, third or first person speech does not equate to disrespect, but my last post WAS in first person.

 

Dare to say "I think..."; take responsibility for your opinion, or else stick to threads about horniness and masturbation where "THE THRONE" character is kinda cute. This is serious business; your schtick wears thin at this point.

 

 

Refer to my last post. HER actions have destroyed the family and placed her children at a far greater risk than anything else. Yes this is serious which is why I want the OP to crush her soul. If she harms herself as a result of his actions it ultimately boils down to what SHE did. BTW, THE THRONE does not take part in threads about masturbation, and in one thread he talked about horiness and said to NOT talk about it.

 

If you had kids - that you loved, anyway - you wouldn't believe that they would be better served by the suicide death of a parent.

 

Why wouldn't I? Some people KILL their spouse for doing such a thing and wwalk proudly to the gas chamber or chair, and if the mother of my kids killed herself I would explain WHY she did it. I wouldn't sugarcoat it and tell them "mommy had problems and she went to go live with God." I would tell them their mother cheated on me and destroyed the family, as a result of that I took her to the bank, and as a result of that she killed herself.

 

Bottom line is more parents need to "keep it real" with their kids and THE THRONE would do exactly that.

 

Question is: how long will you act as the angry husband before you can let it go and make it stop interfering with your role as good father?

 

How has this interferred with his role as a good father? What? Is he supposed to bow down and forget like this never happened? He should just sweep it under the rug for the kids sake? B.S.!

 

And to the OP, my comment was NOT intended to disrespect you or your kids, but I DETEST, DESPISE and LOATHE cheaters.

Edited January 27, 2008 by THE THRONE

[stampdaddy]

so, you dont have any children, do you Throne??

[Trimmer]

As harsh as the throne is, he does have a point. When a woman cheats on a faithful man when he loves her with everything he got.

 

That kills a man straight to his soul.

My god, you guys are sounding like such wussies! Being cheated on KILLS a man, it is tantamount to MURDER, and so we wish for SUICIDE? Hyperbole, anyone?

 

It's brutal, it's awful, and yes, it hurts, but I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy like I have been murdered.... C'mon, man up a little bit here, guys....

 

No I CAN see what this would do to their children. Their children would be six times as likely to commit suicide. What YOU don't understand is that she has already MURDERED her family by chasing penis. Guess what her infidelity does? It causes her children to be 5-7 times more likely to end their relationships. Guess what causes more suicide in kids? Family disruption aka divorce.

Well, my compliments; at least you have a first person identity when you get passionate.

 

But your ideas are way over the top.

 

Are you proposing that between scenario A, where the mother and father - in spite of the infidelity - manage to divorce in a calm, stable fashion, and create safe, loving homes for the kids, and scenario B, where the father manages to "crush" the mother, claim full custody, etc, that you believe scenario B is more beneficial for the kids?

 

For fair disclosure, I'll reiterate that we created scenario A, and I'll say, as a loving father, and an ex-husband who had a strong enough sense of myself not to feel "MURDERED", I wouldn't trade it for anything approching scenario B....

[THE THRONE]

so, you dont have any children, do you Throne??

 

No, and assuming that I wouldn't behave in the fashion I claim I would because I don't have children is folly. I have nieces and nephews who I've helped raised, and I treated them as my own. Bottom line is I don't believe in sugarcoating and living a fantasy because it is best for the kids. I don't believe in staying together for the kids, marrying because you have a kid or anything like that. In addition, I also believe husband and wife should put one another BEFORE their children when it comes to certain things.

[Trimmer]

No, and assuming that I wouldn't behave in the fashion I claim I would because I don't have children is folly. I have nieces and nephews who I've helped raised, and I treated them as my own. Bottom line is I don't believe in sugarcoating and living a fantasy because it is best for the kids. I don't believe in staying together for the kids, marrying because you have a kid or anything like that. In addition, I also believe husband and wife should put one another BEFORE their children when it comes to certain things.

I actually don't disagree with anything you say here. My question is:

 

Would it be better for the children to: Crush their mother (leaving her "destitute") and remove them from their lives, or to allow her to move on in some stable fashion and still be involved in their lives as a mother? Neither of these precludes "keeping it real", and I'm not suggesting that anyone stay together when they don't want to.

 

I"m not asking about "what she deserves", my question is about which of these scenarios would be best for the kids.

 

Are you really telling me that in making a decision about the welfare of your kids, you would choose to leave their mother destitute and remove her from their lives?

[stampdaddy]

No, and assuming that I wouldn't behave in the fashion I claim I would because I don't have children is folly. I have nieces and nephews who I've helped raised, and I treated them as my own. Bottom line is I don't believe in sugarcoating and living a fantasy because it is best for the kids. I don't believe in staying together for the kids, marrying because you have a kid or anything like that. In addition, I also believe husband and wife should put one another BEFORE their children when it comes to certain things.

I dont disagree with what you just said.. But, the BS that you started with was flat wrong, over the top, and again, just WRONG... I hate the saying that "kids are resilient..", BUT, they can adapt in a HEALTHY atmoshphere... no matter what the situation is...

[THE THRONE]

My god, you guys are sounding like such wussies! Being cheated on KILLS a man, it is tantamount to MURDER, and so we wish for SUICIDE? Hyperbole, anyone?

 

It's brutal, it's awful, and yes, it hurts, but I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy like I have been murdered.... C'mon, man up a little bit here, guys....

 

It IS tantamount to murder because evidence shows more MEN commit suicide when divorce happens. In addition, if the OP is white (I don't know if he is) the numbers for divorce based suicide increase dramatically.

 

Well, my compliments; at least you have a first person identity when you get passionate.

 

I have a first person identity all the time, but I prefer to speak in third person, and I don't speak in third person as a joke or gimmick.

 

But your ideas are way over the top.

 

Actually, they are quite logical and many experts would agree with me.

 

Are you proposing that between scenario A, where the mother and father - in spite of the infidelity - manage to divorce in a calm, stable fashion, and create safe, loving homes for the kids, and scenario B, where the father manages to "crush" the mother, claim full custody, etc, that you believe scenario B is more beneficial for the kids?

 

Scenario B may very well be the best thing depending on the many variables that will come into play. Scenario A may be the best thing as well. However, he should look at what is best for HIM in the long run because if HE is not satisfied how can he do right for the kids? he needs to do whatever it takes for himself to move on, and if it means crushing her and showing her how she has fallen from grace so be it.

 

For fair disclosure, I'll reiterate that we created scenario A, and I'll say, as a loving father, and an ex-husband who had a strong enough sense of myself not to feel "MURDERED", I wouldn't trade it for anything approching scenario B....

 

I can respect that, but what may work for you may not work for him.

[THE THRONE]

@stampdaddy you said:

 

I dont disagree with what you just said.. But, the BS that you started with was flat wrong, over the top, and again, just WRONG... I hate the saying that "kids are resilient..", BUT, they can adapt in a HEALTHY atmoshphere... no matter what the situation is...

 

It does seem harsh and over the top, but you have to understand it is not something that is done for attention grabbing or for shock value. I've been cheated on before, and I'm currently helping a loved one through his divorce. I can't make it any more clear that I hate, detest, loathe and despise cheaters. Yes, kids can adapt in a healthy environment, but who is to say an environment where the mother is no longer on this planet is 100% NOT healthy?

[THE THRONE]

I actually don't disagree with anything you say here. My question is:

 

Would it be better for the children to: Crush their mother (leaving her "destitute") and remove them from their lives, or to allow her to move on in some stable fashion and still be involved in their lives as a mother?

 

Again, many variables come into play, but I want stability for the father FIRST. If he is not stable the kids won't be stable. It may be helpful in the long run for the kids to see her desolate and broken. They may think, "wow I don't wanna be like mom", or it may cause her to humble herself and change her ways.

 

Neither of these precludes "keeping it real", and I'm not suggesting that anyone stay together when they don't want to.

 

I"m not asking about "what she deserves", my question is about which of these scenarios would be best for the kids.

 

What is best for the children depends on the many variables at play.

 

Are you really telling me that in making a decision about the welfare of your kids, you would choose to leave their mother destitute and remove her from their lives?

 

Yes! I would do this no question asked because she made the effort to do it! She chose to leave the family desolate and remove herself from their lives.

[stampdaddy]

@stampdaddy you said:

 

 

 

It does seem harsh and over the top, but you have to understand it is not something that is done for attention grabbing or for shock value. I've been cheated on before, and I'm currently helping a loved one through his divorce. I can't make it any more clear that I hate, detest, loathe and despise cheaters. Yes, kids can adapt in a healthy environment, but who is to say an environment where the mother is no longer on this planet is 100% NOT healthy?

GOD can say.. And I believe, MM (creator of this post) would say that he loves his CHILDREN enough thathe would NEVER want their MOTHER out of their lives, but maybe just not in his life (although she will ALWAYS be in his life because of his beautiful children).. Maybe with your slanted views, you actually will help MM with his decisions, like I was trying to do.. But if you TRULY believe what you have been posting, I, among many here, will feel sorry for your third person (YOU)

[Trimmer]

It IS tantamount to murder because evidence shows more MEN commit suicide when divorce happens. In addition, if the OP is white (I don't know if he is) the numbers for divorce based suicide increase dramatically.

You are wildly misusing statistics here. You say "more men commit suicide when divorce happens..." but you don't say "more than what?" I'll assume you mean "more men than women." Even if I grant that to be true, that doesn't support that "most" or even "many" men commit suicide as a result of divorce, so until you can come up with that statistic, your statement here doesn't really support your argument in any compelling way.

 

I have a first person identity all the time, but I prefer to speak in third person, and I don't speak in third person as a joke or gimmick.

Fine, you should know however - and this intended as friendly feedback that you can take or leave as you wish - that it comes off that way, especially where a serious topic is being discussed. It makes you sound as if you are placing yourself above the discussion... YMMV.

 

Actually, they are quite logical and many experts would agree with me.

cite a few; I'd be interested to read their approaches.

 

However, he should look at what is best for HIM in the long run because if HE is not satisfied how can he do right for the kids? he needs to do whatever it takes for himself to move on, and if it means crushing her and showing her how she has fallen from grace so be it.

How far does that go, though? Abandon his kids to make it easier to move on and be satisfied with his life? Ridiculous, we'd all agree... How about sending them to boarding school? How about "sticking" their mother with full custody - wouldn't that be better at showing her what a mistake she made than taking them away from her?

 

I can live my life in a lot of different ways. Thinking that there is only one "best way" that has to work for me is just as much a fantasy as the one that we all have of the perfect, lifelong marriage without any problems. The way I approached it was to figure out how to get my kids into stable, loving homes with both parents, and I found my way to a "best" life from there, without feeling like I had compromised. Just consider it, betrayed.

 

And I know that's all touchy-feely and all that, and THE THRONE may say:

I can respect that, but what may work for you may not work for him.

Fine, but then on that reasoning, he'd have to grant that what he suggests may not work either. I'm suggesting an alternative that I believe, with time and healing and an ability to "man up" and move on, might end up better for his kid (or kids.)

[THE THRONE]

GOD can say.. And I believe, MM (creator of this post) would say that he loves his CHILDREN enough thathe would NEVER want their MOTHER out of their lives,

 

I believe he's seeking full custody, so he doesn't want her in their lives THAT much. ultimately SHE doesn't want to be in their lives because she compromised the family. Her infidelity wasn't just cheating on him. She cheated on the family she helped created--she walked out. So if he pulls the cards and strings to make her walk a long walk for the rest of her life that is the way things are going to have to be. I'm sorry, but she chose this path for herself.

 

Now as far as God is concerned, that is another topic. ("God" has the ability to ease all this strife, anger, tension death, etc yet he doesn't lift a finger to do so. However, he is quick to toss you in hell (and then the lake of fire) for not lifting a finger to help your fellow man. )

 

Maybe with your slanted views, you actually will help MM with his decisions, like I was trying to do.. But if you TRULY believe what you have been posting, I, among many here, will feel sorry for your third person (YOU)

 

MANY people will agree with me. yes, my views may be hard for some to swallow, but my views are rooted in reality and not some cookie-cutter stuff some people are used to.

[Trimmer]

Yes, kids can adapt in a healthy environment, but who is to say an environment where the mother is no longer on this planet is 100% NOT healthy?

Again you are arguing your logic in reverse here. No, no one can say that the mother being removed is 100% unhealthy.

 

I can say that a parent, mother or father, being removed from a child's life is a huge trauma, and the benefits of such a course would have to be HUGE for me to agree that the benefits outweigh the trauma. Most of your arguments are based on the father reestablishing himself and getting healthy, using the mother's punishment as a springboard to his recovery.

 

To use your own phrasing: who is to say that an environment where the father takes responsibility for his own life and his own healing is not 100% healthy for the kids?

[Chrome Barracuda]

Aight guys settle down.

 

How many times have we seen good men get screwed over by cheating vindictive wives in the divorce?

 

Plenty.

 

So if the situations was reversed are you telling me that it wouldnt be okay for a BM to get revenge?

 

I dont get it.

 

There is a line where he could go too far. But leaving her destitute? I dont know. I would break her half off the house and send her on her way and make her pay me child support.

 

A woman that invites evil in the form of an OM into her house where her children and husband is. Violating her family? Is not a good role model to me.

 

I aint saying the OM was a serial killer but you never know who these OM are you know. She doesnt know if he has STD's, she doesnt know if he's a pedophile? She's caught up in the rush of an affair.

 

And Trimmer you'd be foolish to not believe that a man can love wholeheartedly. A man feels just as much as a woman does. Being cheated on hurts. It truly does. let's be real.

[Trimmer]

MANY people will agree with me. yes, my views may be hard for some to swallow, but my views are rooted in reality and not some cookie-cutter stuff some people are used to.

I know you didn't mean this personally, and I'm not taking it that way or getting hostile, but I want you to know that my views are equally rooted in a reality in which I now live every day, as an ex-husband to a cheater, and a father of two children, 8 and 10 years old, who I believe are lucky that both their father and mother are still completely present in their lives and who have found a way to establish a working parental relationship.

 

And for my part, my "recovery" - what turned out to be "best for me" - had little to do with striking back, and everything to do with turning around, looking forward, and deciding what I was going to do with this new and different opportunity I've been given. I spent some time doing the "wah, wah, she hurt me" thing, and I believe that I despise and detest and loathe cheating equally to you, THRONE, but in the end, I don't question that what was best for the children ended up being best for me, too. Just offering the possibility of a different path, BetrayedMM.....

[THE THRONE]

You are wildly misusing statistics here. You say "more men commit suicide when divorce happens..." but you don't say "more than what?" I'll assume you mean "more men than women." Even if I grant that to be true, that doesn't support that "most" or even "many" men commit suicide as a result of divorce, so until you can come up with that statistic, your statement here doesn't really support your argument in any compelling way.

 

 

Yes, more men than women. As far as many men commiting suicide as a result of divorce here is info to support my claim:

 

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html

http://www.divorcereform.org/mel/amensui.html

http://www.divorceinfo.com/suicide.htm

http://www.ancpr.org/suicide_and_divorce__a_collectio.htm

 

"Five million living Americans are estimated to have attempted suicide, and divorce is the leading factor linked with suicide rates above all other physical, financial and psychological factors."

 

http://www.divorcesource.com/MS/ARTICLES/robertson6.html

 

That should do it.

 

Fine, you should know however - and this intended as friendly feedback that you can take or leave as you wish - that it comes off that way, especially where a serious topic is being discussed. It makes you sound as if you are placing yourself above the discussion... YMMV.

 

I've already explained third person speech, and if you read my posts in this thread you'll see my third person speech is VERY limited. Yes, a serious topic is being discussed, but third person speech does not deter or detract unless you make it an issue.

 

cite a few; I'd be interested to read their approaches.

 

If I have the time I'll have to dig into my psychology books.

 

How far does that go, though? Abandon his kids to make it easier to move on and be satisfied with his life? Ridiculous, we'd all agree... How about sending them to boarding school? How about "sticking" their mother with full custody - wouldn't that be better at showing her what a mistake she made than taking them away from her?

 

Again, if he is not satisfied it is going to have a harmful impact on his children. The mother of his children wasn't satisfied (for whatever reason) and look what happened--broken family. He needs to grounded firmly and locked into place and hold the belief that what he is doing is right for him, for what is right for him, is right for the kids. Sending them to boarding school or giving her full custody is the WRONG thing to do as it prevents him from being the stable role model they need to see.

 

can live my life in a lot of different ways. Thinking that there is only one "best way" that has to work for me is just as much a fantasy as the one that we all have of the perfect, lifelong marriage without any problems. The way I approached it was to figure out how to get my kids into stable, loving homes with both parents, and I found my way to a "best" life from there, without feeling like I had compromised. Just consider it, betrayed.

 

Look at his speech, friend. Do you think for one minute he wants to see her happy? He doesn't want to see her happy, and I can't blame him. He wants to see her CRUSHED, and he has taken the correct steps to do so. I'm just sad that I can't see the look on her face when she is served with the papers. Again, in some cases, moving forward the way you did is best for the children, but in other cases utterly crushing the other party and not having them around is the best thing.

 

Fine, but then on that reasoning, he'd have to grant that what he suggests may not work either. I'm suggesting an alternative that I believe, with time and healing and an ability to "man up" and move on, might end up better for his kid (or kids.)

 

Don't you think he has considered everything? He has been cheated on by his WIFE. There is not a second of the day that goes by that it isn't on his heart. When he drives to work he thinks about it. Eating dinner? Thinking about it. Looking at his children? Oh you bet, he's thinking about it. With all of that being said, he thought about it and he is making a choice based on his personality and what he deems is best in the long run, and I support him 100%. I hope he breaks her and tramples her soul.

Edited January 27, 2008 by THE THRONE

[Chrome Barracuda]

Yes, more men than women. As far as many men commiting suicide as a result of divorce here is info to support my claim:

 

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html

http://www.divorcereform.org/mel/amensui.html

http://www.divorceinfo.com/suicide.htm

http://www.ancpr.org/suicide_and_divorce__a_collectio.htm

 

"Five million living Americans are estimated to have attempted suicide, and divorce is the leading factor linked with suicide rates above all other physical, financial and psychological factors."

 

http://www.divorcesource.com/MS/ARTICLES/robertson6.html

 

That should do it.

 

 

 

I've already explained third person speech, and if you read my posts in this thread you'll see my third person speech is VERY limited. Yes, a serious topic is being discussed, but third person speech does not deter or detract unless you make it an issue.

 

 

 

If I have the time I'll have to dig into my psychology books.

 

 

 

Again, if he is not satisfied it is going to have a harmful impact on his children. The mother of his children wasn't satisfied (for whatever reason) and look what happened--broken family. He needs to grounded firmly and locked into place and hold the belief that what he is doing is right for him, for what is right for him, is right for the kids. Sending them to boarding school or giving her full custody is the WRONG thing to do as it prevents him from being the stable role model they need to see.

 

 

 

Look at his speech, friend. Do you think for one minute he wants to see her happy? He doesn't want to see her happy, and I can't blame him. He wants to see her CRUSHED, and he has taken the correct steps to do so. I'm just sad that I can't see the look on her face when she is served with the papers. Again, in some cases, moving forward the way you did is best for the children, but in other cases utterly crushing the other party and not having them around is the best thing.

 

 

 

Don't you think he has considered everything? He has been cheated on by his WIFE. There is not a second of the day that goes by that it isn't on his heart. When he drives to work he thinks about it. Eating dinner? Thinking about it. Looking at his children? Oh you bet, he's thinking about it. With all of that being said, he thought about it and he is making a choice based on his personality and what he deems is best in the long run, and I support him 100%. I hope he breaks her and tramples her soul.

 

 

Damn breaks her and tramples her soul???

 

That's way vicious, even for me! lol.

[Lovelybird]

I hope he breaks her and tramples her soul.

then left him long life guilty and hatred for himself

 

The decision based on hatred and revengence can never to be right one

[Trimmer]

Aight guys settle down.

I am... My passion isn't particularly stirred by the whole "revenge on the wife" question - I usually get very stirred up by the question of the collateral damage and trauma that the kids get exposed to...

 

How many times have we seen good men get screwed over by cheating vindictive wives in the divorce?

 

Plenty.

 

So if the situations was reversed are you telling me that it wouldnt be okay for a BM to get revenge?

In either case, whether the man or woman is the antagonist, although it's not my preferred philosophy, I wouldn't take away revenge as an option, EXCEPT for consideration of the children.

 

There is a line where he could go too far. But leaving her destitute? I dont know. I would break her half off the house and send her on her way and make her pay me child support.

 

A woman that invites evil in the form of an OM into her house where her children and husband is. Violating her family? Is not a good role model to me.

Actually, while we're all splitting the assets and assigning custody, I would be interested if BetrayedMM (if we haven't scared him off already) would detail the specifics of her child endangerment. I'm not belittling the claim: I'll hear it with an open mind. But we're now taking as gospel that she "invited evil in the form of an OM into her house where her children [are]" and I haven't searched back over BetrayedMM's history, but that information was not in this thread.

 

Hey, if Betrayed can show that she left the kids in the car while she boinked the OM in a motel room, then I'd line up on his side (and if my wife had done that, I'd feel quite differently than I do now, too...)

 

And Trimmer you'd be foolish to not believe that a man can love wholeheartedly. A man feels just as much as a woman does. Being cheated on hurts. It truly does. let's be real.

I didn't mean to imply that. I'm convinced that I loved my wife fully and completely - clearly more than she did me - and I didn't mean that I didn't hurt deeply, or experience intense anger, or respond with bitterness, nor do I think any other man is any less affected than I have been.

 

I just think this element of "poor me, she took away my life, my soul. She murdered me..." just makes us sound so weak... Just as I believe that a man has the emotion to love wholeheartedly, I also believe that he has the intelligence and reason to take responsibility for his own recovery, make the break when it is clear there is nothing left to do, and move forward with strength. I'm not saying it's without pain and suffering and trauma, just that, if anything, men should be better at coming around to "it's my life now, and I'm in control here, time to move on."

 

I don't know if I'm distilling my point very well... Sorry if I'm not getting it.

 

The other related thing I'm saying is that we start throwing around MURDER and DESTRUCTION as metaphors, and then use those words to qualify real actions like suicide and leaving someone destitute, and I'm trying to pull that propaganda back a little bit. Literal cheating is not literal murder, and families are split up, devatstated, and traumatized by divorce, but not destroyed, so while I'm all for real murderers committing real suicide to save us taxpayers time, court costs, and prison space, I'm not willing to let the hyperbole of "cheating is murder" go unchallenged when it is used to inflame emotions, and then those extreme emotions are played upon to justify extreme actions.

[THE THRONE]

I know you didn't mean this personally, and I'm not taking it that way or getting hostile, but I want you to know that my views are equally rooted in a reality in which I now live every day, as an ex-husband to a cheater, and a father of two children, 8 and 10 years old, who I believe are lucky that both their father and mother are still completely present in their lives and who have found a way to establish a working parental relationship.

 

 

Like I said, I respect your views, and you do offer another perspective that he could have looked into. However, I believe he is now on a mission and he will not stop until he has utterly crushed her and shown her the results of her actions. With that being said, there is no changing him because he is basically on a warpath. Again, he will not stop until he see's her defeated. His fight or flight response is turned all the way on to "fight" and he is going for the throat--God bless his heart.

 

And for my part, my "recovery" - what turned out to be "best for me" - had little to do with striking back, and everything to do with turning around, looking forward, and deciding what I was going to do with this new and different opportunity I've been given. I spent some time doing the "wah, wah, she hurt me" thing, and I believe that I despise and detest and loathe cheating equally to you, THRONE, but in the end, I don't question that what was best for the children ended up being best for me, too. Just offering the possibility of a different path, BetrayedMM.....

 

Let me ask you something, Trimmer. You strike me as an intelligent and forgiving guy and there is nothing wrong with being forgiving. However, what if Betrayed lacks the ability to forgive her? Should he attempt to make things work or should he take the current course of action he is currently taking?

 

Again you are arguing your logic in reverse here. No, no one can say that the mother being removed is 100% unhealthy.

 

That is what it seems like to me.

 

I can say that a parent, mother or father, being removed from a child's life is a huge trauma, and the benefits of such a course would have to be HUGE for me to agree that the benefits outweigh the trauma. Most of your arguments are based on the father reestablishing himself and getting healthy, using the mother's punishment as a springboard to his recovery.

 

And I wouldn't diasagree with you. However, he should use the mothers punishment as springboard to his recovery. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger (no pun intended, forget the suicide and divorce stuff), and if he attempts to turn that negative into a positive I'm all for it. As long as he doesn't turn to the bottle, use drugs or partake in any abnormal destructive behavior I'm all for it.

 

To use your own phrasing: who is to say that an environment where the father takes responsibility for his own life and his own healing is not 100% healthy for the kids?

 

It may be 100% healthy for the kids, and taking responsibility for your own life and healing may involve getting your hands dirty and showing the person the error of their ways.

 

 

EDIT: I just went back and read the OP's second post.

 

Infidelity, abuse, neglect, child endangerment, it goes on and on.

 

Child endangerment? Trimmer did you see this?

Edited January 27, 2008 by THE THRONE

[Trimmer]

Yes, more men than women. As far as many men commiting suicide as a result of divorce here is info to support my claim:

Thanks for the references... I promise to review them, although I may not get to it tonight.

 

 

Look at his speech, friend. Do you think for one minute he wants to see her happy? He doesn't want to see her happy, and I can't blame him. He wants to see her CRUSHED, and he has taken the correct steps to do so.

My point is that once he heals to the point of taking personal and sole responsibility for moving on, he will no longer care about what happens to "his wife", but as a father, he may care about the stability and presence in his kids' lives of "their mother." If he crushes her now, that serves his purposes (and I maintain, his only) in the short term, but will it serve his kids' needs in the long term. Will he wake up a few years down the road, with the passion of hating his ex long since worn off, wondering whether having their mother in his kids' lives wouldn't have been the better option?

 

Again, I'm not claiming to know for sure, but I really want to present another option for Betrayed to consider.

 

Don't you think he has considered everything? He has been cheated on by his WIFE. There is not a second of the day that goes by that it isn't on his heart. When he drives to work he thinks about it. Eating dinner? Thinking about it. Looking at his children? Oh you bet, he's thinking about it. With all of that being said, he thought about it and he is making a choice based on his personality and what he deems is best in the long run, and I support him 100%.

Yes, I think I've sufficiently established my experience in this area. I do know what he's thinking about, I have felt what he's feeling, and I even have the experience of factoring children into my decisions over a several year period starting from the clusterf*ck that she dumped on me to where I am now. Yes, I do know; that's why I'm talking about it.

 

And although you claim, "in some cases, moving forward the way you did is best for the children, but in other cases utterly crushing the other party and not having them around is the best thing.", it sure sounds like you've made your final decision in this case:

I hope he breaks her and tramples her soul.

I hope he puts a good amount of thought into both the short- and long-term implications of his choices, and comes to a plan that will provide a good chance of minimizing the trauma for both him and his kids.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I am... My passion isn't particularly stirred by the whole "revenge on the wife" question - I usually get very stirred up by the question of the collateral damage and trauma that the kids get exposed to...

 

 

In either case, whether the man or woman is the antagonist, although it's not my preferred philosophy, I wouldn't take away revenge as an option, EXCEPT for consideration of the children.

 

 

Actually, while we're all splitting the assets and assigning custody, I would be interested if BetrayedMM (if we haven't scared him off already) would detail the specifics of her child endangerment. I'm not belittling the claim: I'll hear it with an open mind. But we're now taking as gospel that she "invited evil in the form of an OM into her house where her children [are]" and I haven't searched back over BetrayedMM's history, but that information was not in this thread.

 

Hey, if Betrayed can show that she left the kids in the car while she boinked the OM in a motel room, then I'd line up on his side (and if my wife had done that, I'd feel quite differently than I do now, too...)

 

 

I didn't mean to imply that. I'm convinced that I loved my wife fully and completely - clearly more than she did me - and I didn't mean that I didn't hurt deeply, or experience intense anger, or respond with bitterness, nor do I think any other man is any less affected than I have been.

 

I just think this element of "poor me, she took away my life, my soul. She murdered me..." just makes us sound so weak... Just as I believe that a man has the emotion to love wholeheartedly, I also believe that he has the intelligence and reason to take responsibility for his own recovery, make the break when it is clear there is nothing left to do, and move forward with strength. I'm not saying it's without pain and suffering and trauma, just that, if anything, men should be better at coming around to "it's my life now, and I'm in control here, time to move on."

 

I don't know if I'm distilling my point very well... Sorry if I'm not getting it.

 

The other related thing I'm saying is that we start throwing around MURDER and DESTRUCTION as metaphors, and then use those words to qualify real actions like suicide and leaving someone destitute, and I'm trying to pull that propaganda back a little bit. Literal cheating is not literal murder, and families are split up, devatstated, and traumatized by divorce, but not destroyed, so while I'm all for real murderers committing real suicide to save us taxpayers time, court costs, and prison space, I'm not willing to let the hyperbole of "cheating is murder" go unchallenged when it is used to inflame emotions, and then those extreme emotions are played upon to justify extreme actions.

 

The reason why you are saying that he isnt right for doing what he's doing is because he isnt over it. Something is still fresh in his mind. As it was in yours. Right now he's acting on blind emotion. He'll start to simmer down, and someday the affair and cheating will be nore more than an afterthought.

 

But right now he wants revenge.

 

Let him make his own choices. I for one will not stop him.

 

But I will tell him this.

 

That in the long run you got to let go of the pain. When your finally over it and your content with your anger and your actions, BMM, just let go. Forgive.

 

It'll all work out for the best.

[Trimmer]

Like I said, I respect your views, and you do offer another perspective that he could have looked into. However, I believe he is now on a mission and he will not stop until he has utterly crushed her and shown her the results of her actions. With that being said, there is no changing him because he is basically on a warpath. Again, he will not stop until he see's her defeated. His fight or flight response is turned all the way on to "fight" and he is going for the throat--God bless his heart.

I hear you, but now, you are essentially saying "if he's blinded by his rage, then we shouldn't stop him, we should cheerhim on and support him..." What I'm saying is: Betrayed, I've felt blinded by the same rage, and I found a way out of it. Take a breath, and think about it, and look at it from a different angle. I'm glad I did, and frankly, I am convinced that focusing on my kids' short-term well-being initially (actually, subconsciously prioritizing them over my own short-term needs) turned out to benefit my personal long-term interests. I am firmly convinced of this.

 

So if I can get Betrayed to stop and consider the other path, maybe he calms down for a time, and it turns out that there are more options than just fight or flight.

 

So no, just because he sounds firmly on the warpath, doesn't mean I line up and cheer him on. If he tells me he's considered all angles, including his kids' long-term well-being, then I'll bow out quietly.

 

Let me ask you something, Trimmer. You strike me as an intelligent and forgiving guy and there is nothing wrong with being forgiving. However, what if Betrayed lacks the ability to forgive her? Should he attempt to make things work or should he take the current course of action he is currently taking?

I take kind of the same approach as above, and I'm not even saying the path lies toward forgiveness. It's been over 2 years and I'm not sure I've forgiven my wife yet, but that hasn't prevented me either from building a parental relationship with her that works for our kids, nor from moving on and becoming whole again as a strong, confident individual myself.

 

As long as he doesn't turn to the bottle, use drugs or partake in any abnormal destructive behavior I'm all for it.

And you see, it's just my approach to add to that list: "or cause unnecessary trauma to his kids...", because I'm convinced that there are paths that can be equally healthy for both himself and his kids.

 

EDIT: I just went back and read the OP's second post.

 

Child endangerment? Trimmer did you see this?

Yeah, I saw that earlier on, and I assumed it was just a shark-attorney throwing everything at the wall to see what will stick, as in "having an affair risks divorce, therefore endangers the children..." If it is rooted in real actions or negligence, then depending on what it is, it would likely sway my opinion about custody, as I noted earlier here:

Actually, while we're all splitting the assets and assigning custody, I would be interested if BetrayedMM (if we haven't scared him off already) would detail the specifics of her child endangerment. I'm not belittling the claim: I'll hear it with an open mind. But we're now taking as gospel that she "invited evil in the form of an OM into her house where her children [are]" and I haven't searched back over BetrayedMM's history, but that information was not in this thread.

 

Hey, if Betrayed can show that she left the kids in the car while she boinked the OM in a motel room, then I'd line up on his side (and if my wife had done that, I'd feel quite differently than I do now, too...)

[TMCM]

What people say they will do and what they actually will do are two very different things. It may be that BetrayedMM will indeed carry out his 'show no mercy towards her' policy towards his STBX, then again he may not. But whatever he chooses, I truly hope that he will, in time, let go of the hatred and bitterness which have, for the moment, have taken residence in his heart. If he doesn't, then he will be unable to let go of the past and move on with his life. I know that if I still harbored hatred and bitterness towards my ex-wife, I would have never been able to open up my heart to the new woman who is now my wife. As someone once told me "Resentment is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die".