She confessed...

[TMCM]

I know it seems hard to believe, especially for the women here, that a man would have to acquire so much crap against his STBXW to gain custody of the kids but it is absolutely true. The court system is so heavily biased towards women, that a woman has to be an absolute monster before the father will be granted primary custody of the kids. In my case, child protective services became involved because my ex-wife left our children alone while she went away with two OM of hers. So I can relate full well with MM's situation.

[whichwayisup]

He needs to gather as much proof as possible, documents, eye witnesses, written statements to support him and hopefully the courts WILL see that his wife is unstable, and not doing anything to help herself, let alone put her children first. She is very messed up, and HE is the the stable parent.

 

When and IF the time comes she is better and has gone through some therapy, THEN they can talk about her role and being involved with her kids. Until then, he has to protect his kids.

[BetrayedMM]

They have seen me take one for the team way too many times already. The former doormat is dead. Long live the man.

 

Yes, I have considered the long term consequences. I hope my kids are never foolish enough to tolerate being stomped on and walked all over the way I did. I want them to lead happy, healthy lives, find love, and be at peace in their hearts. I was teaching them the wrong lessons, being a bad example.

 

You have fully grasped why I must fight to 'win'. As I said, I know I probably won't 'get it all', will not be granted everything spelled out. I must counter the government sponsored bigotry with an overwhelming case. It is what it is.

 

Yes, she already has enough problems. My divorcing her will only make it worse for her. I am interested in hearing the alternatives that have been suggested. I am also in a bad place in my life right now, not just her. Is there any other logical path I can take that will be best for the majority of us, and not just her? Seriously, you guys are suggesting I am making a mistake, I am both willing and eager to find a less painful way to get through this! Tell me what you really think would be best, I do have an open mind about this, I just feel I have been backed into a corner and now must fight my way out, or die.

 

Those references to suicide related to divorce are no joke. I have been contemplating that as an alternative. That is certainly a way to end my pain once and for all. But, it's not good for my kids at all. That's all I have left. I am doing what I can to work on my self esteem, yet that doesn't seem acceptable. You guys bashing THE THRONE just don't have a clue. He knows, he understands. He is not sick. He is venting, and bringing up very valid points that apply directly to me. Very intuitive of him.

 

Stamp, don't you understand the pain of a betrayed spouse? Your eloquence forced me to understand the pain of the OM in your case, please, try to understand. I cannot express the depth of my pain as well as you can express yours. I don't know which combination of words can do that. I'm not good at it.

[stampdaddy]

They have seen me take one for the team way too many times already. The former doormat is dead. Long live the man.

 

Yes, I have considered the long term consequences. I hope my kids are never foolish enough to tolerate being stomped on and walked all over the way I did. I want them to lead happy, healthy lives, find love, and be at peace in their hearts. I was teaching them the wrong lessons, being a bad example.

 

You have fully grasped why I must fight to 'win'. As I said, I know I probably won't 'get it all', will not be granted everything spelled out. I must counter the government sponsored bigotry with an overwhelming case. It is what it is.

 

Yes, she already has enough problems. My divorcing her will only make it worse for her. I am interested in hearing the alternatives that have been suggested. I am also in a bad place in my life right now, not just her. Is there any other logical path I can take that will be best for the majority of us, and not just her? Seriously, you guys are suggesting I am making a mistake, I am both willing and eager to find a less painful way to get through this! Tell me what you really think would be best, I do have an open mind about this, I just feel I have been backed into a corner and now must fight my way out, or die.

 

Those references to suicide related to divorce are no joke. I have been contemplating that as an alternative. That is certainly a way to end my pain once and for all. But, it's not good for my kids at all. That's all I have left. I am doing what I can to work on my self esteem, yet that doesn't seem acceptable. You guys bashing THE THRONE just don't have a clue. He knows, he understands. He is not sick. He is venting, and bringing up very valid points that apply directly to me. Very intuitive of him.

 

Stamp, don't you understand the pain of a betrayed spouse? Your eloquence forced me to understand the pain of the OM in your case, please, try to understand. I cannot express the depth of my pain as well as you can express yours. I don't know which combination of words can do that. I'm not good at it.

Pain is Pain, no matter who you are.. Everyday, I pray to keep my chin up, literally.. Keep my eyes open so I can SEE life in front of me.. It is so hard to do sometimes, but YOU HAVE TO DO IT... I thought about suicide when I first got divorced, 15 years ago, my daughter was 3 at the time.. God flashed an image of her standing next to my gravesite after her highschool graduation.. Made me think of all of the "life" I would have missed if I was gone, all of HER life I would have missed.. She is a freshman in college now, and we miss each other only by distance...

 

Chin up my friend, there is alot of life to live

[BetrayedMM]

As an Agnostic, I don't know if there is a God or not. I do believe there is truth in all religion, if only as a guide for humanity to get along with each other.

 

I would feel like a babbling insane idiot if I were to pray and not know if there's anybody listening. I envy those who feel they know that which cannot be known. I do not have a belief in the unseen to comfort me. I wish I did, but I cannot force myself to believe something for which the only evidence is the word of other people. I'm a skeptic, it's just the way I think.

 

I do meditate, though, and it helps me grind out answers sometimes. That's a similar thought process to praying, more time consuming though. But, I know that the answers come from inside me, not from some external source.

 

Bah, enough about religion, I respect it, but I don't have that to fall back on.

[BetrayedMM]

HE is the the stable parent.

 

Thank you for that. You may be giving more credit than I deserve though. I was feeling better about myself, the pain was subsiding, then she does what I have been asking for, and it's all back. I'm glad she told me, do not wish she didn't, and I have known 100% that she was screwing around. For those men who suspect your wife of cheating, get the Checkmate marital infidelity test kit. Scientific proof positive. And that certainly isn't the only proof positive I have. Some of it is so painful, I don't care to elaborate further, I try not to dwell on it. But, somehow, I'm not OK anymore. I don't FEEL very stable at all. I wish I did.

[Trimmer]

Betrayed -

 

Chrome, Cobra and I were arguing what seemed, at the time, to be presented as a fairly ordinary affair/divorce case. And as you acknowledge, "stacking the deck" is often a part of an aggressive divorce proceeding, so I thought there was some chance that the "child endangerment" claim was part of that. You didn't mention it in your OP, made only one brief, passing reference to it in post #6, and you'll note that it wasn't until post #47 that THRONE even noticed it was a factor, so his comments were not substantially based on that factor until late in the discussion. Most of the supportive comments were in the context of "get revenge, make her pay, you deserve to do it to help you heal."

 

So my impression is that what started out sounding like "my wife finally confessed to an affair, so I've got an aggressive lawyer and together we will take the kids away and ruin her" (which is what I was responding to) has actually turned out to be "I have finally found the strength to divorce my reckless and unstable wife who has abused and injured our children." Well, that I can understand.

 

It also helps me to understand why you are being so aggressive. I couldn't quite put my finger on why you would take such a "warpath" approach regarding custody in what I thought was a "normal" (forgive the term) divorce-following-an-affair situation, but now, with this more complete information it makes more sense.

 

And I will correct myself, in saying that I don't know how you feel, and I haven't walked your path, and my experience, thankfully, is not like yours.

 

Look folks, it's easy to bash him for staying in the marriage, but not every woman or man has the strength to immediately fold up shop and leave an abuse situation - we see that all the time with women, why should men be any less human? We wish they could take action and leave immediately, but they don't always, and it's because they are human, with frailties, fears, and uncertainties, not because they are monsters. Remember that the real monsters are the abusers.

 

With the current confluence of events, Betrayed has finally found the strength to take his action. What has happened thus far is not optimum, and I bet no one is harder on him than he is himself for not taking action sooner. But here he is at the crossroads and everything has finally come together, and change is about to happen.

 

Betrayed, I know that when you look back at your life later, you will see dark times, but I hope you will see this as a turning point, where things started to get better.

 

Good luck.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Trimmer

[Cobra_X30]

Betrayed -

 

Chrome, Cobra and I were arguing what seemed, at the time, to be presented as a fairly ordinary affair/divorce case. And as you acknowledge, "stacking the deck" is often a part of an aggressive divorce proceeding, so I thought there was some chance that the "child endangerment" claim was part of that. You didn't mention it in your OP, made only one brief, passing reference to it in post #6, and you'll note that it wasn't until post #47 that THRONE even noticed it was a factor, so his comments were not substantially based on that factor until late in the discussion. Most of the supportive comments were in the context of "get revenge, make her pay, you deserve to do it to help you heal."

 

Look folks, it's easy to bash him for staying in the marriage, but not every woman or man has the strength to immediately fold up shop and leave an abuse situation - we see that all the time with women, why should men be any less human? We wish they could take action and leave immediately, but they don't always, and it's because they are human, with frailties, fears, and uncertainties, not because they are monsters. Remember that the real monsters are the abusers.

 

Agreed!

 

Listen, when my parents split... my dad played softball the whole way, because he felt it was best for us kids. That was probably the stupidest thing he could have done to us! I suffered alot for that poor choice, and my sister suffers something horrible to this day.

 

This is why I think BMM needs to go for the jugular! Because I've been there and I know what can happen. He has a right to want justice, especially in a system that provides him nothing. His wife has emotionally abused him for years, and we as a society have deemed this acceptable, so he has no true legal recourse! Let him persue satisfaction where he may.

 

Also, for everyone who questions his staying with someone like this. It's obvious he had hoped she would be better in the future. I don't think he is the one who needs to apologize for his behavior!

[Mr. Lucky]

Three things aren't going to change here:

 

1). She's their Mother.

 

2). They're going to want to have a relationship with her.

 

3). As hard as it is to see now, it's in your best overall interest that that relationship be as positive as it can be.

 

Think about that as you go forward...

 

Mr. Lucky

[THE THRONE]

Agreed!

 

Listen, when my parents split... my dad played softball the whole way, because he felt it was best for us kids. That was probably the stupidest thing he could have done to us! I suffered alot for that poor choice, and my sister suffers something horrible to this day.

 

This is why I think BMM needs to go for the jugular! Because I've been there and I know what can happen. He has a right to want justice, especially in a system that provides him nothing. His wife has emotionally abused him for years, and we as a society have deemed this acceptable, so he has no true legal recourse! Let him persue satisfaction where he may.

 

Also, for everyone who questions his staying with someone like this. It's obvious he had hoped she would be better in the future. I don't think he is the one who needs to apologize for his behavior!

 

 

+1. Let him do things the way he needs to do them.

[THE THRONE]

This is one of the most disturbing threads I have ever read on this site. It makes me shudder to know that there are people out there who actually think like THE THRONE! To me, they are a danger to society.

 

To the OP,

 

I, like Oceanblue, am apalled that you stayed with a woman who practically beat her child to death. I can't believe that your uppermost concern is destroying your wife when what should concern you most is your children's well-being.

 

From where I stand, neither one of you is a good parent to these poor children.

 

And, yes, thank goodness there are quality people like Trimmer on this site.

 

How is THE THRONE a danger to society?

 

When you said, "I think this woman should be kept as far away as possible from her children. She is,to say the least, a horrendous influence. Her presence in their lives will likely do more harm than good." you actually endorsed the majority of THE THRONEs argument. She does NOT deserve to see her children because she has forsaken her children. She has had too much presence in their lives (partially due to BMM's passive attitude), but thank God he has finally seen the light.

[BetrayedMM]

Man, I had something I had to do, and just couldn't concentrate at all. I had to explain why, and come back home. I just can't cope with the normal daily grind right now. Maybe I'll have my head on straight tomarrow. Ugh. But, at least I've started talking about it. I refuse to hide her secret for her anymore, and when it is directly affecting others, I will tell the truth now. Maybe I'll generate a support network other than you guys.

 

Anyway, to clear something up, this divorce has been in the planning since Jan 2 when I started shopping for a lawyer. I found the right one, this guy made the most sense and seems to be genuinely concerned(yeah, right, he's a LAWYER). The reason she confessed is I got shot off my mouth and told her that I didn't need her anymore. I am not supposed to let her catch on. That was a slip up on my part. I was never good at acting though.

 

OK, yes, Cobra hit most of why I stayed so long on the head. Denial, weakness, yes. To that I will add that I took her bipolar disorder into consideration, and was desperately trying to work with her to get it under control. I now know that I can't fix her. There is also the fact that I am a man in an abusive situation, both physical and mental. That is a very embarrasing thing for a man to admit. I don't really know exactly why, now it seems silly. One other thing- I was justifying it by telling myself "well, at least she stopped cheating".

 

Think about my kids, think about my kids, yes yes, dammit I am! How can I possibly control their relationship to their mother? I never said I wouldn't allow visitation, or interfere with contact or anything like that. Not for her sake, but for theirs, and on their terms. For that matter, if they want to live with her for whatever reason, I will reluctantly agree. At their ages, I think they are capable of deciding for themselves. I will not offer it, they must want it on their own. But those are the only circumstances I will agree to it, and only if I know for sure they have thought it through. Unless or until that happens, I will not be swayed from my course and screw everything up.

 

Edit: unless someone comes up with a miracle solution to this problem that I haven't thought of yet. I am willing to listen, and actually hope a little beyond hope that somehow somewhere there is a solution that has evaded me. I have been doing a lot of research, but Haven't found anything except reconciliation stuff.

Edited January 28, 2008 by BetrayedMM

[Trimmer]

Betrayed, with all this recent information you've shared, I think your situation is much more complex than we originally thought, and I don't think any of us can presume to provide concrete, black and white solutions.

 

I trust that you are doing what you are doing for the benefit of your kids. I'm glad that you have found the strength to take control, the confidence to move forward and take action, the thoughtfulness to realize that they may still want contact with their mom, but the caution to be careful about how that happens.

 

My main theme in all of this remains unchanged: that the kids need someone looking out for their interests, and I believe that you are doing that, in a very complex and difficult situation which I can't even imagine.

 

Other than on here, have you sought out any support - professional, perhaps - around the areas of the family abuse, etc.? Have you considered it?

[BetrayedMM]

Other than on here, have you sought out any support - professional, perhaps - around the areas of the family abuse, etc.? Have you considered it?

 

No, I haven't told anyone but my lawyer and one other guy about the recent cheating, and I only just told him. He couldn't offer much advice, because in 22 years of marriage his wife never cheated on him, so he has no real experience in these things.

 

When the cops and all got involved a couple years ago, there were smarmy social workers making offers of programs and PFAs and all and giving me flyers written in very basic language telling me nothing I already didn't know for general consumption, and my wife did go through some counceling and all, because she had to. I refused their help for me, because I felt insulted and humiliated about their attitudes. That was wrong of me, I should have seen past the people and my own mind your own business attitude. I have always been uncomfortable with airing my dirty laundry in public. Yet, look at what I'm doing right now- not living up to that standard. But, at least (hopefully) I'm basically anonymous here.

[BetrayedMM]

You know, thinking back on it. I guess I refused help for my kids too. I have no excuse, and need to digest that. All I can say is I wanted us as a family to work together at our own pace. There is also the fact that I would have to have gone to sessions designed to help abused women and their children, and I was ashamed to do that. Too stubborn and hard headed to see it clearly at the time. I did want to protect my wife as well, and now that seems incredibly foolish, but I fought FOR her over this, not against her. She didn't seem to be the enemy, I was also pretty gun shy about the whole thing. So much drama, and it was all painful.

 

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. But, I didn't.

[OpenBook]

You know, thinking back on it. I guess I refused help for my kids too. I have no excuse, and need to digest that. All I can say is I wanted us as a family to work together at our own pace. There is also the fact that I would have to have gone to sessions designed to help abused women and their children, and I was ashamed to do that. Too stubborn and hard headed to see it clearly at the time. I did want to protect my wife as well, and now that seems incredibly foolish, but I fought FOR her over this, not against her. She didn't seem to be the enemy, I was also pretty gun shy about the whole thing. So much drama, and it was all painful.

 

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. But, I didn't.

 

Betrayed, PLEASE bring this up with your lawyer. I would hate to see you get blindsided in court. You and he must be prepared with a decent answer if they ask you why you didn't remove the children from harm's way when the abuse (and subsequent criminal record) occurred two years ago. I was trying to tell you this in an earlier post, but I think you were too upset and you assumed all the wrong things about where I was coming from.

[BetrayedMM]

Holy crap! You have a good point! I will indeed do just that.

 

Ya know, from what he's told me, it probably won't actually get to court. He says cases like mine are usually settled out of court, because the case is ironclad, and if she doesn't just sign on the dotted line and gets a lawyer he will recommend negotiation, rather than take a risk his bill will be so high she won't be able to pay it.

 

But, the case must be ironclad. And, I hadn't thought of that. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

 

Yes, I was upset. I read more into your post than was actually there and lashed out. I'm sorry.

[OpenBook]

Holy crap! You have a good point! I will indeed do just that.

 

Ya know, from what he's told me, it probably won't actually get to court. He says cases like mine are usually settled out of court, because the case is ironclad, and if she doesn't just sign on the dotted line and gets a lawyer he will recommend negotiation, rather than take a risk his bill will be so high she won't be able to pay it.

 

But, the case must be ironclad. And, I hadn't thought of that. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

 

Yes, I was upset. I read more into your post than was actually there and lashed out. I'm sorry.

 

No biggie. This is an achingly sad situation. I hope you keep a cool, clear head going through this, as much as you possibly can. And I would listen to Trimmer's excellent advice, especially about seeking counseling for you and your kids. I've seen this over and over again (and I think teachers will agree with me) that when parents divorce, all the kids really want to know is that their parents won't disappear and abandon them. With all the changes happening around them that are completely beyond their control, they need SOMETHING to ground them. Extended family/friends can really help with this, if you've got any around - that you trust.

[marlena]

I've seen this over and over again (and I think teachers will agree with me) that when parents divorce, all the kids really want to know is that their parents won't disappear and abandon them.

 

I'm a teacher and a divorced parent and I can vouch for this 100%. And, yes, extended family, grandparents,aunts,uncles,cousins etc... can help the situation immensely.

[cj1988]

Betrayed, I am so glad YOU finally got the confession you needed, but at the same time, I am sorry for your pain. I have been praying and wishing for over a year now that my H tell me what really happened, BUT if he did now it would not change what I already knew anyway. I am not the one that has to live with what he did, he does now and that is fine with me. He is losing me now and that is not what he expected, now he can wonder for the rest of his life what I am doing !

[BetrayedMM]

I haven't been able to force myself to tell my extended family. I have only told one friend. I told my boss this morning because this has been affecting my work, and he has both a need and a right to know. He lied to me, told me I have some vouchers I didn't cash in yet,(not true) so I can take all the time I need and not worry about the money. I'm in shock over that- he's GIVING me the money, and I didn't earn it! That was the last response I expected.

 

But, if I go telling my extended family, I'll have to bring up the divorce when they ask, and she will get a heads up. She talks to them far more than she talks to me. And, I'm talking about MY side of the family here. The hypocrisy is staggering. How on earth could she be that close to them, yet be another man's sex slave?

Plus, I'll have to admit to them that I am a failure. I'm not ready for that.

 

 

As far as seeking counseling, I know that under the right circumstances, that can be helpful. That has not been my experience in the past. The last time she did this, I went to a psychiatrist, he basically interviewed me and wrote out a scrip for paxil. Well, paxil (at least for me) had some side effects. It made me a sexual superman(I was already in high gear to begin with, to my horror), and I had the kind of constipation that you could make a horror movie about. I never have THAT problem.

Psychologists are not doctors. All they need to 'qualify' for that is a few short years of school. If even that. From everything I've heard, what they do seems to amount to a bunch of nicey-nicey crap, it sounds like most of them listen, digest what you said, then tell you what they conclude you want to hear. For instance- the MC we were going to. I explained the problem, we were there because she was cheating. She lied of course and denied it. So the MC gave us a paper saying stuff like I FEEL... WHEN YOU... I NEED... to practice communicating, next session she was saying we had to compliment each others' shoes! WTF! But, as stupid as it felt, I even did that. She also said my wife shouldn't have to tell me anything she felt uncomfortable talking about. Told me I shouldn't listen to rumors. I told her it wasn't how I found out, and if I had to prove it I could because I have conclusive proof. She said- "OK, so you have proof. What are you going to do about it?" OMG! She actually got pissed because I challenged her! Bitch.

Well, my wife canceled the counseling, and actually I didn't blame her, it wasn't helping at all.

 

So, there you have it. I don't trust them, and have always had no faith in pseudoscience. From what I've experienced, all my research, everything I've learned about it has led me to conclude that it's alchemy, not chemistry. Maybe I'm wrong. But, it seems they are pretty much nothing more than someone to talk to. Which could be a bad thing, if they give you bad advice and you follow it thinking it's going to help because they 'know what they're talking about'. The human mind is very complex, and only so much is known about it. There are still more mysteries than anything else. And, the 'professionals' in this complex field don't even need much of an education. Like handing a loaded gun to a chimp. They sure need their fees though, don't they.

 

Have any of you really been helped by counseling for real, or were you only helping yourself and paying someone for it? I'm serious here.

[BetrayedMM]

CJ- I hear that! That's exactly where I was a few days ago. Hearing the truth is traumatic, but gives you closure. You're still in limbo, but drifting slowly out of it. It was a release for me.

[marlena]

Plus, I'll have to admit to them that I am a failure. I'm not ready for that.

 

 

 

Divorcing someone does not mean you are a failure. Staying in an abusive marriage means that you are a failure. Talking control of your own life and destiny takes a lot of strength and character. Succumbing is weakness.

[BetrayedMM]

Yes, it does mean you're a failure. The entire life you built around the marriage is a failure. It's never 'easy' to begin with, you have to MAKE it work. It is a responsibility, an obligation. A commitment, a promise you will stick it out, you must get through the hard times no matter what. I didn't. I must face that and learn to be OK with it. I am not OK with it at all.

[TMCM]

Yes, it does mean you're a failure. The entire life you built around the marriage is a failure. It's never 'easy' to begin with, you have to MAKE it work. It is a responsibility, an obligation. A commitment, a promise you will stick it out, you must get through the hard times no matter what. I didn't. I must face that and learn to be OK with it. I am not OK with it at all.

 

Yes you are a failure for not accepting the desire of your wife to have sex with another man. Yes you are a failure for not taking blame for her actions. Yes you are failure for not staying in a sham marriage.

 

No thanks, I'd rather be a 'failure' than a 'success' any day of the week.