Why are Americans so hell bent on saving their marriages?

[SamZamboni]

More a social commentary on the state of the freakin' court system..lol

[marlena]

I am not directing this at anybody in this forum but there are many women who only wany men to be sperm donors and walking wallets. Child support is the only time when feminists seem to think that fathers matter.

 

Personally, if I needed some sperm to have a baby, I'd go to a sperm centre and not entrap myself into a marriage with someone I did not love just for the sake of having children!

 

On a more personal level, I didn't see a red cent after my divorce. And I never sued him for not paying the child support that I was granted by the courts.

 

And, yes, you could call me a feminist - not the militant, twisted man-hating variety (I adore men) but the kind who does believe in mutual respect and equal rights and opportunities.

 

Woggle, it seems like you have been meeting some very greedy and manipulative women. This has nothing to do with feminsm. A strong and independent woman, I think, would be less likely to go for the jugular when it comes to child support, alimony or whatever.

 

Why such prejudice? I don't understand.

[Woggle]

I know that NOW adamently opposes any attempt by fathers to gain some rights in family court and there has been an effort by feminists for the last couple of decades to remove fathers and men from the family. Feminists have made it clear to men that we are nothing more than useless extras when it comes to raising children.

[a4a]

I know that NOW adamently opposes any attempt by fathers to gain some rights in family court and there has been an effort by feminists for the last couple of decades to remove fathers and men from the family. Feminists have made it clear to men that we are nothing more than useless extras when it comes to raising children.

 

well they are!

 

:lmao: (got your goat.... )

 

Woggle have you been to the fembot boards again? Talking to your bitter buddy?

 

How many times have your ex wives taken your kids and forced you to pay support?

 

Perhaps you would be better off not fighting battles for other people and work on your own home front? (said with respect)

 

I don't need a man..... I may want one, but not a NEED! And if I wanted kids as a single woman I would not want the hassle of a live man, I would indeed go to a no strings attached sperm bank. - is that mean? How is that demeaning to men? I don't want a relationship, I don't want fighting, I don't want child rearing disagreements, I just want a kid.

[marlena]

I know that NOW adamently opposes any attempt by fathers to gain some rights in family court and there has been an effort by feminists for the last couple of decades to remove fathers and men from the family. Feminists have made it clear to men that we are nothing more than useless extras when it comes to raising children.

 

 

Are we talking feminists or lesbians? LOL!!!

[a4a]

Are we talking feminists or lesbians? LOL!!!

 

Who says lesbians dislike men...... they just don't want them to put their penis in them.

 

Lesbians are usually always hanging out with the guys.

 

Gay or straight. Can chat chainsaws, football, and share flannel shirts.

(now that was meant to be funny, I love gay folks!)

[Woggle]

We are talking feminists. For the past 30 years feminists have worked to reduce fathers to nothing more than sperm donors then women complain that more men don't step up to the plate. Fatherlessness has become the ultimate expression of independence according to many feminists.

[marlena]

I was just about to add that I have nothing against lesbians!

 

Yes, I know they do.

 

I am heterosexual and have lots of gay friends - both genders.

 

We all love eachother's company.

[Kasan]

We are talking feminists. For the past 30 years feminists have worked to reduce fathers to nothing more than sperm donors then women complain that more men don't step up to the plate. Fatherlessness has become the ultimate expression of independence according to many feminists.

 

Woggle, you leave yourself wide open when you make these kind of statements.

 

Of course I don't agree with you on this.

[Woggle]

I have nothing against lesbians either. My issue are the women that pretend to love and care about a man when in reality they have other motives.

[Woggle]

Woggle, you leave yourself wide open when you make these kind of statements.

 

Of course I don't agree with you on this.

 

It's the truth and I don't see how anybody can look at things and not realize this.

[marlena]

Yeah,

Lots of misconceptions regarding feminists and lesbians.

Hating the opposite sex has nothing to do with either.

 

Usually, mysogynism and androgynism are the result of trauma or a series of bad personal experiences. Neither have anything to do with homosexuality or feminism.

[a4a]

We are talking feminists. For the past 30 years feminists have worked to reduce fathers to nothing more than sperm donors then women complain that more men don't step up to the plate. Fatherlessness has become the ultimate expression of independence according to many feminists.

 

You need to move if these are the type of people you have in your neighborhood.

 

Woggle, woman don't NEED men any more. We now can feed and clothe ourselves. Men don't and have never needed women, unless they wanted kids/needed a womb to propogate their man seed........ so see it really is kinda equal now.

 

Perhaps this is: women as a whole rejecting/not needing men = a mother rejects her son..... so the battle will continue.

 

But I think this is going way off topic .......

 

And I agree with the original post.... people waste their life trying to force a R to continue past it's state of true viability in the name of "proper social standards".

[a4a]

I have nothing against lesbians either. My issue are the women that pretend to love and care about a man when in reality they have other motives.

 

:lmao:

 

Dude, don't guys pretend to really "love" a chick to score with her?

I see it all the time.

 

So are these women out for revenge...... no just like the men with motives they are just crappy people.

 

crappy men, crappy women, crappy crappy people.

[marlena]

crappy men, crappy women, crappy crappy people.

 

equal crappy relationships.

[Woggle]

There are crappy people from both genders but crappy men don't have a political movement justifying our crapiness as some sort of justified rebellion.

[Frances]

With the divorce rate being as high as it is in the US, why do people in America always insist on "working on the marriage, get counseling, stay away from affairs" and on and on and on... It has become somewhat of a cliche on these boards.

 

Again, why this fervent persistence on upholding the institution of marriage at whatever cost? At times with devastating results, no less.

 

I just don't get it. Some things are just better not being saved.

 

Why not just tell someone who is absolutely miserably stuck in a marriage to dissolve the marriage and seek happiness elsewhere?

 

Life is too short to waste. I just don't get this trend. Honestly, I'd like to know.

 

 

 

If Americians are hell bent on keeping on to their marriages why is the divorce rate so high?

 

The marriage age law is far too low, they can get married without notice.

 

Quite a number have what is called a starter marriage, going into it at too young an age with the idea that one can always divorce if it does not work out.

 

It should be made harder to marry. Couples should have to give a few months notice of intent and the marriage places where couples can just get married at the spur of the moment should be closed down. Couples should have pre marriage courses and should not be allowed marry unless they complete the full course. This would not prevent marriage breakdown but at least it would help some way to reduce the numbers involved. Divorce should not be as easy to get either and the couples should know this going into marriage as may make them stop and think about what they are doing.

 

This of course is just my opinion.

[Kasan]

I think what was meant by it is that the entire way of thinking of most of this country these days is ME, ME, ME!

 

I agree with this and I think we expect to be happy all the time, or if we aren't, there has got to be a bigger, better, something out there that will do the job, which buys into the ME, ME, ME mantra.

[BetrayedMM]

I didn't read the whole tread, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

 

I wasn't aware this was a phenomenon limited to the borders of the USA. I thought that's what marriage was all about. The very definition of marriage.

 

It's because we take our marriage vows seriously as a lifelong commitment. It's not a game. If you lose this one, you lose everything in this world that matters. You don't go and make those promises in front of family and friends, put them on paper, give yourself completely to another person for life unless you actually mean it. Or unless you're a monster. For people like me, it means something. This isn't your girlfriend, it's your LIFE PARTNER. Huge difference.

 

And, yet, I have filed for divorce. Even though my marriage has become an impossible situation, I am not living up to the most important commitment a person can make. So, we do have our limits, but for a person of conscience. it feels wrong to end a marriage under any circumstances. Rationalizing and justifications don't change that. The opinion of others does not change that. For those of us who take our marriage vows seriously, nothing will make you feel OK with not being true to yourself.

 

I know full well this won't make sense to you, but all I'm doing is giving you a peek into the thought processes involved in what you refer to as an 'american' marriage.

[a4a]

There are crappy people from both genders but crappy men don't have a political movement justifying our crapiness as some sort of justified rebellion.

 

they did not need a political movement. Men owned women. Literally.

 

Women could not even vote in this country until 1920 when the constitution was amended. Women could not own property if she was married.

 

Come on Woggle. There is a need for a political movement for those that are having their rights oppressed..... kinda like freeing the slaves..... ya know human rights thing.

 

It was a justified rebellion. Equal pay for equal work type thing.

 

Men who were not property owners did not have the right to vote at one time - oh but there was a political movement to solve that too. Silly non property owning men..... they ruined everything for us big property owners.

 

Feminism was needed, not so much now. And if men don't want to marry or have a women involved in their life...... I don't see a law feminist have attempted to put on the books forcing men to do so.

 

Woggle you should start a thread about your personal expectations of the modern day women.

[Woggle]

The feminists from back in the day wanted to fight oppression while the feminists of today want to become the oppressor. That is the difference.

[marlena]

There are crappy people from both genders but crappy men don't have a political movement justifying our crapiness as some sort of justified rebellion.

 

Historically, men were not opressed by either the opposite sex or society. Therefore, there was no need for a movement to exist. Men were always considered to be the dominant sex. The feminist movement was a direct outcome of the injustices that were being perpetrated against women..such as lack of equal opportunity for work and education just to name one.

[a4a]

If Americians are hell bent on keeping on to their marriages why is the divorce rate so high?

 

The marriage age law is far too low, they can get married without notice.

 

Quite a number have what is called a starter marriage, going into it at too young an age with the idea that one can always divorce if it does not work out.

 

It should be made harder to marry. Couples should have to give a few months notice of intent and the marriage places where couples can just get married at the spur of the moment should be closed down. Couples should have pre marriage courses and should not be allowed marry unless they complete the full course. This would not prevent marriage breakdown but at least it would help some way to reduce the numbers involved. Divorce should not be as easy to get either and the couples should know this going into marriage as may make them stop and think about what they are doing.

 

This of course is just my opinion.

 

People will just shack up then.

 

Which is fine.

I don't see anything wrong with bailing on a M if there are no kids involved and they will not suffer from it.

 

There is nothing wrong with taking your best shot and saying "hey I did my best, but it will not work".

 

Not sure how Vows are involved. Those are words. Words don't mean much to me, Actions do.

 

I think divorce should be much easier. You get what you came in with and 50% of the joint assets------ 30 days or less.

 

Think about the stress, loss of productivity, anger, bitterness, physical toll a long drawn out divorce takes on people. That in IMHO is ridiculous.

[stillafool]

Ahhh, a subject after my own heart. I am truly amazed when I hear folks say "he/she broke our vows." I want to holler at them and say vows are human-made religious pledges designed to force people to commit to one another, at a time when we are usually way too young to know what we want to do for the next 60 or 70 years.

 

We all *believe* we will love this person for the rest of our lives, but that is unrealistic. People change and grow and unless a couple changes and grows in the same general direction, they will cease to want to be with one another.

 

Marriage keeps people together by law, by finances, by parental needs, etc. It is a necessary evil (for lack of a better phrase) designed to raise children together in a familial setting, in order to perpetuate society's current view of acceptable mores.

 

 

I haven't read this entire long thread but I do agree with you Zolie. Where exactly in the Bible does it say you should be married? I think people stay married because they don't want to lose their "stuff". That is a sorry reason to stay with anyone. When I hear of someone who is cheating on their spouse or whose spouse is cheating on them, I always suggest that they divorce and move on. Life is just too dang short to be unhappy. My grandparents were married forever also, but my grandma didn't have many choices in her generation as women do today. Women had to depend on their husbands for their financial support and now we can take care of ourselves.

[marlena]

Most cheat because they are, once again, thinking of ME, ME, ME. Or money issues. One or both may be on the ME, ME, ME track, so there is fighting. Then when it comes to trying to work through problems together, again with the ME, ME, ME.

 

 

Please don't bring infidelity into the picture. I did not have this in mind when I started the thread. Not all marriages go down the tubes because of infidelity. There are numerous reasons that people are very unhappy in marriages. Incompatability to cite just one example.