Little "tests" - Fair or manipulation?

[HisLove]

Maybe you should ask her to put all her rules in writing, so you know what the benchmark is for passing or failing. If she hasn't written the rule, then you can't possibly fail it.

 

I'm with LovelyBird about pushing men around. If they jump, sit or roll over whenever I tell them to, I have no respect for them. In much the same way I'm sure they would have no respect for me if I did likewise.

 

Also, next time she's on the phone to her mother or sister, demand sex RIGHT NOW and see if you're the priority over a phone call. Remember she has less than 120 seconds to wind up the call. She thinks that performing on cue is an indicator of success. Call her on it. It's her rule, she should be very successful at demonstrating it in a practical way. But wait!! I bet if you did that very thing, it will cause you to fail some other obscure test and not get the sex. Can you see how this works??

 

If I attempted to manipulate any of the men in my life with the sorts of things your wife does, they'd say pffft, whatever, and walk away.

 

I don't know if your marriage is over, at least let her figure out reality and have a chance to work on things. If you are going to go to MC, my advice to you would be to keep an accurate log of things so you can give definite examples, and not just same vague recollection of things. Don't let her know you're keeping the list, but go with your facts if you are serious about this.

[mental_traveller]

I hope there's a good divorce lawyer in your town.

[mental_traveller]

She didn't care...she still feels that I chose a conversation over her.

 

Well, that's exactly what you did. The point is, *any* reasonable adult would have chosen the conversation over her.

 

I think this is pretty simple. Make a list of all the stuff she does that is way out of line. I don't mean minor irritations, but really bad stuff like the phone/sex manipulation episode, or her constant testing of you. Now, once you've done the list, next time she tries one of them again, you simply ORDER her to stop. If she strikes to argue, you order her to shut the hell up and listen. If she still refuses, you tell her you are in charge her and you are not putting up with any more of her crap, and if she doesn't like it then you get on the phone to a divorce lawyer and start asking him what is the quickest way to file. Once she sees it is a choice between cutting her crap, or getting divorced pronto, I think you will see an interesting change in her behaviour.

 

In a way you should pray that she refuses to change, because divorcing her really would be the best thing you could do.

Edited January 29, 2008 by mental_traveller

[LankyGuy]

Well, I guess I'm having a hard time getting past this one. For the last two nights my wife has told me that I keep looking at her like I'm disgusted. She said it 3 times last night and a couple of times tonight. I hadn't even mentioned the sex "test" again...trying to let it go. Was not trying to look disgusted or make her feel that I am.

 

Frankly, I am disgusted with what happened on Sunday. I'm disgusted that she still thinks it was justified. I'm disgusted that she can think this is a valid way to think and a valid way to treat me. Apparently my body language is showing all of this. I'm trying to get past it but it's going to take time.

 

She told me to leave if I don't want her. She told me that if I won't put her first and love her then to let her go so that she can find someone who will....someone who will love her. She told me to stop stringing her along. She told me that she's changed and stopped the name calling (she has stopped since Jan 1st or so). She can't understand why I don't show her love since she's loved me all these years. But on Saturday she told me she was happy and that for a week or two I seemed happy and smiley around her and she felt good. Well, this sex thing on Sunday was a setback for me...I told her that. She said "I got over it. So should you! And I still think you're wrong!"

 

I told her I just want a normal grown-up relationship with her. Not this tumultuous crap that we have. I told her I just want her to stop acting like a 12 year old girl and be a woman. She says..."So you want me to change who I am? That's not right!" WTF? I'm just asking her to treat me with respect and act like an adult, sparing me the tantrums and manipulation...I'm not asking her to be a different person! I shouldn't have to kiss her ass to get her to stop calling me an ******* and to stop playing manipulative head games.

 

So she didn't want to talk about it anymore. She wants to either end it or go to back to a MC. That's fine with me if she wants to see a counselor. I have been thinking that we may never be able to get this to work, though. I'll have to tell the MC everything...again...and afterwards I'll have to deal with her wrath after "throwing her under the bus" as she described it last time. It all has to come out though for her to see that what she's doing is not right. She won't listen to me...maybe she'll listen to the MC.

 

Yes, I'm sure I've been cold to her. I'm sure I've been grumpy and miserable at times. I'm sure I've had a tone with her. I probably haven't left enough little notes and given enough compliments. I admit that and I will admit that to the MC...again. I've lost my respect and lost my love for her. How could I not act the way I've been. I've been beaten down for a long time.

 

The sad thing is that she doesn't intend to do all this manipulation and emotional abuse...I think it's just how she works...it's how she gets me to respond and perform the way she wants....and she thinks it's all OK. She told me she really didn't know it hurt me when she called me names when we fought and when she got upset. How is that possible?? Especially after telling me over the years that she called me those names to try to hurt me since I "don't have a heart or feelings"...it doesn't make sense!

 

Well, she went to bed. We'll see how this goes tomorrow. Thanks for listening...

[Phateless]

My ex was EXACTLY like this. Trust me dude, it's all her. As soon as you start dating ANY OTHER WOMAN, you will realize how completely insane this chick is. I stand by my first post. She is insane.

 

RUN!

[BentSpine]

Especially after telling me over the years that she called me those names to try to hurt me since I "don't have a heart or feelings"...it doesn't make sense!

 

At first when reading your I felt optimistic because you were beginning to see the light. You are literally only one single action step away from a better future, i.e. sever ties, once you realise that name-calling is nothing but abuse, precisely like physical abuse.

 

But sadly, I now doubt you will see the light. As someone pointed out, habits die hard. Both her habit of manipulating you and your habit of rationalising her behaviour. I don't like to write this but my best guess is that eventually you will down-play her test when you were on the phone with your brother. Because you have done it before.

 

You want a partner who is supportive of you. Anyone can temporarily fake support but a faker can't keep it up being supportive indefinitely: I believe that someone who loves you may not always have the energy to be enthusiastically supportive but will regardless of feeling sick or tired, the person who is genuinely supportive will never, ever, put you down.

[LankyGuy]

BentSpine...Just so I'm clear, for you, my "seeing the light" and having a better future is ending the marriage? Yes, I do rationalize her behavior. It's probably been a coping mechanism. It's something I do with everyone, actually. I'm starting to realize, though, that there is no excuse for some of her behavior...its just further ruining the marriage. She is grasping onto whatever she can, and justifying the behavior however she can.

 

What was it at the end of my post that made you second guess my "awakening"? I'm missing something. I sympathize because it's a shame that she feels that she needs to act this way and feels that it's OK. That sympathy must NOT be the reason I stay with her, though.

 

Sometimes I think she needs to hit rock bottom and see what it is that she is doing. She needs to see what it really is like to show someone love...not just cook and buy groceries then nag and criticize the rest of the week. She may only be able to do this by me leaving. She's been with me since a few weeks after her 18th birthday. I think she's had some sort of arrested development since that time. I'm sure I've had a hand in this, but as I've matured, I think I've pulled away from her...or have been repelled to some extent. Now we have this chasm between us and I look at her thinking..."what is this?"

[Kasan]

You know, I am the first to chime in and say leave no stone unturned to save your marriage.

 

In your case, I'm not sure what there is to save. I followed your other "Compliments" thread and after reading what you have written here, I just don't know.

 

Where do you draw the proverbial line in the sand and say enough is enough? I would not want to spend the rest of my life having to walk on eggshells to appease my partner.

 

It must be very painful to feel your love for your wife disappear a little bit each day.

 

Maybe she needs to see your writings here on LS. Maybe this could be her rock bottom.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

I would run far away from someone like this. Test you? Is she that superior over you that you need to prove yourself to her.

 

This is a form of abuse - not an example of a good relationship.

 

Tell her to stop manipulating you and head for counseling or divorce court. She is not going to change - you've allowed this for too long. Find some beautiful woman who won't test you and be happy.

[Cobra_X30]

She told me to leave if I don't want her. She told me that if I won't put her first and love her then to let her go so that she can find someone who will....someone who will love her. She told me to stop stringing her along. She told me that she's changed and stopped the name calling (she has stopped since Jan 1st or so). She can't understand why I don't show her love since she's loved me all these years. But on Saturday she told me she was happy and that for a week or two I seemed happy and smiley around her and she felt good. Well, this sex thing on Sunday was a setback for me...I told her that. She said "I got over it. So should you! And I still think you're wrong!"

 

Lanky,

 

This whole part right here is HER exerting power over you! See she knows your going to choose MC.

 

The moment you choose to walk away she will be forced to really look at who she is and what she does. Here is why. She KNOWS that you love her, what she wants is more attention and affection, and she uses your love as leverage against you.

 

So, what I recommend you do is begin providing her with an increased amount of attention and affection... but no love! If that means you need to seperate then so be it. You absolutely have to take your power back! Otherwise this will never ever work.

[LankyGuy]

This is in response to Kasan...kinda long.

 

I am extremely patient and I can take a lot of punishment, stress, etc. I think very few men would have stuck around for what I've put up with. One of my vices is that I'm not a quitter and I'm an optimist. I will stay in situations because I finish what I start. It's not worth doing that for a marriage, though...not just for the sake of not quitting...especially if it were to cause a lifetime of unhappiness...for both parties.

 

Ironic that you mention egg shells. That's how the fight started last night. She feels that she walks on egg shells with me. I told her that I walk on egg shells with her! It started because of my reaction to her jealousy when she smelled cologne on my neck. It was body spray that she bought me! I'm trying to use it up! Yeah, I'm gonna be like "whatever!" when I get a negative jealous reaction to something so harmless. She had to put her nose against my neck to smell it for cryin' out loud. I'm not trying to pick up women with it!

 

She would be suicidal is she saw my postings here. There was a thread about emptying browser histories. I've emptied mine so that she wouldn't come across this website by accident. She would feel betrayed and hurt if she read these postings. I'm sharing thoughts here that she could never handle. She doesn't want the truth...she just wants to hear that it's gonna be alright.

 

If anyone knows the song "Lovefool" by the Cardigans, it makes me think of her. It goes...

 

" So I cried, and I begged for you to

Love me Love me. Say that you love me.

Fool me fool me. Go on and fool me.

Love me love me. Pretend that you love me.

Leave me leave me. Just say that you need me.

I can't care about anything but you."

 

It's sad...I don't want to be the object of someone's obsession. I just want to love and be loved...as an equal.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

LankyGuy,

 

I know the song and play it often when I am in a mood.

 

I have a verbal abusive husband (with similarities to your W) and it's a very hard and hurtful situation. We are trying MC but I think the MC will tell us that it may not work.

 

Would divorce be an option for you?

[Kasan]

I am extremely patient and I can take a lot of punishment, stress, etc. I think very few men would have stuck around for what I've put up with. One of my vices is that I'm not a quitter and I'm an optimist. I will stay in situations because I finish what I start. It's not worth doing that for a marriage, though...not just for the sake of not quitting...especially if it were to cause a lifetime of unhappiness...for both parties.

 

You shouldn't have to take the punishment and stress, from a person who promised to love you, and still does.

 

I have been bashed here because like you I am an optimist and not a quitter, and advocate doing what you gotta do to save your marriage, but LG, you are the only one doing the work.

 

I understand finishing what you start, but at what cost to you? Do you give up years of your life to become a martyr to your marriage? Years that you will never be able to get back?

 

Perhaps you need to start thinking about your "last straw day" when the sh*t hits the fan. She will be forced to either do the work, confront her issues, (counseling, doctor's check-up,) or your gone.

 

I hope for your sake that it's sooner than later, as you are in a terrible situation and need a resolution.

 

LG, what would you tell a friend if he came to you with your story?

[Mustang Sally]

She would feel betrayed and hurt if she read these postings. I'm sharing thoughts here that she could never handle. She doesn't want the truth...she just wants to hear that it's gonna be alright.

LG - you sound like someone else that I know in a very similar situation....

 

It sounds like your wife has extreme insecurity.

Would you say that is a fair assessment?

[LankyGuy]

The idea of divorce makes me sick in the stomach. But it's something that I've considered. I've thought of what life would be like by myself. In some ways I fantasize about it and in some ways I'm really scared.

 

The level of drama I'd have to experience if I were to leave her is second to none. Then there's the thought of the actual logistics...

[Kasan]

The idea of divorce makes me sick in the stomach. But it's something that I've considered. I've thought of what life would be like by myself. In some ways I fantasize about it and in some ways I'm really scared.

 

The level of drama I'd have to experience if I were to leave her is second to none. Then there's the thought of the actual logistics...

 

Well, it sounds like to me, your wife hasn't crossed the line in the sand with you yet.

 

You still love your wife if the thought of divorce makes you sick....so how are these issues going to be resolved? I think that you are going to have to set some boundaries on what you will tolerate and what you won't. She does what she does, because it works.

 

Do you have a plan for this?

 

There are websites out there--marriagebuilders, divorcebusting.com but once again, you will be doing all the work, but maybe an better understanding of your marriage could be gained. I dunno.

 

LG, I hope that you aren't hanging in there because of fear of the future and fear of her reaction if you were to leave.

 

You do know that you will not be able to continue like this forever....your love for her will be slowly eroded by your continuing anger and resentment.

[Cobra_X30]

The idea of divorce makes me sick in the stomach. But it's something that I've considered. I've thought of what life would be like by myself. In some ways I fantasize about it and in some ways I'm really scared.

 

The level of drama I'd have to experience if I were to leave her is second to none. Then there's the thought of the actual logistics...

 

So it's just fear that holds you in check? Make a plan, put some thought into it. Doing that may break those chains of fear. You don't actually have to go through with it, but it may remove that feeling of desperation in making things work.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

The idea of divorce makes me sick in the stomach. But it's something that I've considered. I've thought of what life would be like by myself. In some ways I fantasize about it and in some ways I'm really scared.

 

The level of drama I'd have to experience if I were to leave her is second to none. Then there's the thought of the actual logistics...

 

Fear will stop you from doing the things that may be best for you. Don't let fear guide you into bad circumstances or stop you from being happy.

 

Do you have children?

[LankyGuy]

OK, there are probably multiple reasons why I feel sick in my stomach to think to think of divorce. Fear is certainly a lot of it, and it manifests itself in a lot of different ways. Yes, I would miss her and my life would be very different without her. I just don't know how much Id miss her or how much better my life could be...I've been with her forever. Also, as with everyone, I never intended to get divorced and I'd feel like a failure if I did. And yes, I do cringe at the thought of the amount of drama I'd experience from my wife. When we get in bad fights and divorce comes up the screaming, explosive crying, guilt trips, etc are overwhelming. The drama could be extended over a long period of time too, if we divorced. Then there is my family...they love her and would miss her...I know I shouldn't worry about this, but I do. The financial aspects would be really tough too...we have several rental properties we'd have to deal with, plus our own house. Yes, I fear all of this. But I also fear a stressful dysfunctional relationship forever, too.

 

And the big question...kids. We do not currently have kids BUT we have one on the way. It took us over 3 years and lots of heartache and money. SHE is not carrying the baby...a surrogate is. Baby will arrive in 3 months. If anyone has seen Juno...that hit close to home. My wife acts exactly like controlling baby-obsessed adoptive mother. I'd say I'm a lot like the father, but he turns out to be a guy with some issues. Anyways...

 

I was lambasted here the last time I mentioned that we're bringing a baby into a broken marriage, but that's the fact. I just have to deal with that.

 

My plan... Well my wife has threatened to leave or end it a few times in the last couple of months after some fights...a few of which started from things as basic as me getting sick before a trip, listening to headphones while in the house, or not packing for a trip in the manner/time that she liked. Anyways, I told her that I am not ready for divorce and I WILL NOT do that to the woman carrying our baby. She agreed that we can't split while the baby is on the way. I actually got "points" for my thoughtfulness on that one :-/

 

The plan for me is to see if we can get this relationship together in a functional way at least by the time the baby is a few months old. If not, it's likely that the relationship will only get worse with the stress of a newborn. I am telling myself that I WILL NOT stay in the marriage JUST for the kid. I'd rather raise him separately without confrontation than together with it. I want him to see a relationship that is built out of love and respect...not this manipulative power struggle. I'd rather him see his parents separate with someone else in a good relationship than see us together in a terrible one. And if I leave her, I'd rather do it while he is young than to wait until he actually can feel it and remember it.

 

What I'm trying to do now is assess myself and my relationship. I need to see what it is that I really want out of my marriage and my life. I need to see if there is ever a chance for us to have a normal peaceful relationship.

 

I have been considering divorce more and more. With the reading I've done and the feedback I've gotten here, it is apparent that I've been in a bad marriage for a long time with someone who may never be happy with me and may never actually admit any fault or change. We may just never be compatible...unless I'm willing to continue giving in and being unhappy. If I think divorce is the best choice, I pray that I will find the strength to actually go through with it. It would be Hell in a lot of ways, but it may be the only way to ensure happiness for me as well as my wife...and my future child.

 

Yes, it's a mess. Can't wait for that beer tonight when I get home...

[StartingOver07]

LG, who are the biological parents of the child?

[SerenityX2]

LG,

 

I am sorry for what you are going through. I've expressed what you've dealt w/to my H. (This a 2nd M for us both)

 

His ExW was a lot like yours. She would use sex as a leverage...things like, "if that fence isnt' done...don't expect..." Then after his daughter was born...it was completely shut off...and he learned to deal with it. She ended up having an A and leaving both him and the daughter when the daughter was 10 y/o!! (I can't imagine a mother doing that, but there you go)

 

What your W is doing is horrible, and yes, very much mind games. You need to establish you will not tolerate any more games/tests period. Just state it as such, that you have reached a breaking point with this BS...if you can't just say that on your own, then say you've done an internet search and have discovered just how unhealthy this sort of behavior is. Give it the guise that you are doing research to better the r'ship.

 

Divorce should never be brought up in fights unless meant. The damage is just there...it just becomes an option...so instead of having a marriage that you will weather any storm...it becomes more like...if the storm is too bad, you can just bail. However I just don't see a strong foundation that you two have to weather this.

 

Like I said, I told my H about your situation...he feels for you...he's willing to respond to any q's you may have as well if it'll help you gain clarity.

 

Peace LG.

[LankyGuy]

LG, who are the biological parents of the child?

 

We are. Our egg and sperm. They implanted the embryos into the surrogate after in vitro. I know of a couple who is having a surrogate carry their baby and they're getting divorced. They told the surrogate that they don't want the baby. That's ridiculous. I wouldn't want ours to be in the middle of something like that. She's wonderful...it would kill her. Of course we'd never tell her we don't want it, but she would worry...

[LankyGuy]

SerenityX2. Thank you. She doesn't even use sex as leverage...she doesn't use it at all. She's been trying, though. We did have sex last week one day...3 times :-) Unfortunately she messed it up so it's only been that one day since the November or December.

 

Yeah, I've played the research card many times. I do research for a living so she buys it. Plus I have been reading a lot. She's always the one to bring up the D word and is always the one to say "I'm gonna leave" or "Maybe you should leave", etc. It does soften things to a point where that feels like an option that never even used to be on the table.

 

Sometimes I feel like a huge part of our foundation is my willingness to be a doormat. Now that I'm picking myself off the ground she takes it as an attack.

[OWoman]

Lanky I fear for your child. If you can't do it for yourself, at least do it for your child. Fix the marriage NOW (if that's possible) or end it NOW.

[Gunny376]

I've come up against this a time or two in my life?

 

My response, I look them straight in the eye and tell them "You can cut me off from yours! But you can't cut me off from the other 3.5 billion women!"

 

That usually settled the issue, but occassionally I got ~ "You'd cheat on me!" ~ To which I respond, "Force the issue and find out!"

 

Play with fire ~ you're going to get burned!

 

I don't have time for all these mind games ~ and whose in control, who's in charge. To me? If your part of a couple ~ I'm not in charge, she's not in charge ~ we're in charge! Kind of like the Democrats have a 51% majority in the House ~ and Republicans having a 51% in the Senate ~ if we're going to get anything accmomplished? We've got to work together.

 

And, I'm not saying sex is all there is to marriage? But, as a man? No sex means all that I've got on my resume' is

 

Bugkiller

Handyman

Billpayer

Mealticket

Sprem doner

 

Well I can be all that by my lonseome ~ without the HSN and porcelin unicorns, dolphins etc lying about all the place?

 

To the original poster? What are you getting out of this relationship ~ LOVE?

 

Or is it that the downside of divorce you fear most? One of the truly great things about being divorced and being a man? You get you complete and total ownership of your balls back! Pink slip and all!

 

Of course should I ever get married again? She won't get them to begin with. And the "pink-slip" to them will safely tucked away in a vault in a bank somewhere in California or the Bermuda better yet!

 

I'd tell the wife ~ were I married to her? Enough! This is about one man loving one woman ~ and if I'm not doing it right ~ then I need to learn how!

 

This isn't about any freaking "tests" its about making you feel wanted, needed, and secure ~ but you've got to work on your own issues ~ and it would seem that she's got issues about not being "good enough" or wanted because of her adoption! And, she's in need of constant validation that she is ~ that's her problems and issues ~ not yours!