Author LankyGuy Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 BlueEyedBrain. True. It's funny because very few people see the controlling side of her. She's very good at turning it off when we're around other people. Her mom has seen it and has apologized for her...she probably wouldnt be too surprised if I left. Wizer, you're right. I don't want to be one of those lifeless guys you're talking about. Sometimes I think that's what she wants though. Ironically, she really feels that I'm too "uppity"... Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Eyed Brain Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 BlueEyedBrain. True. It's funny because very few people see the controlling side of her. She's very good at turning it off when we're around other people. Her mom has seen it and has apologized for her...she probably wouldnt be too surprised if I left. What is truly keeping you with her? Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 LankyGuy, next time you run away bring a good scissor and some tennis shoes. Run like hell and find a good woman. We are out there. You're funny :-) I'm glad to hear that you guys are out there :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Eyed Brain Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Lanky, BTW, I am in a similar situation - so I know the feelings you are having. Link to post Share on other sites
wizer Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 LankyGuy, next time you run away bring a good scissor and some tennis shoes. Run like hell and find a good woman. We are out there. Once again, if you were paying attention, you know his wife won't let him play with anything sharp. Nor would she provide him with "running shoes". Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 What is truly keeping you with her? That's a tough one. I wonder myself at times. We make good companions and have lots of similar goals. We're both driven and make a good team...as long as I'm willing to deal with some drama at times. I do have fun with her at times and I'm sure I'm dependent on her in many ways after all of these years. People consider us a "Power Couple". I think our relationship is a lot about what we accomplish together...not so much about a functional, loving, EQUAL partnership. If anyone has watched The Amazing Race, there is always a couple that is attractive and driven, but the woman is an aggressive emotional basket case and the guy is passive and is there supporting her, trying to calm her down, trying to get her to stop bitching, to stop crying, and trying keep her sanity in check. In the meantime, he's suffering emotional abuse the whole time and putting up with a lot of crap. They may end up doing well, but he's ready to kill her by the second show. My wife acknowledges that she is like those women and that we wouldn't be able to do that show. I'm glad that she sees herself in those women...but she doesn't seem to want to change. So, I don't really know. I'm very confused and blinded at times. I need to figure out what I want. Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Eyed Brain Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Once again, if you were paying attention, you know his wife won't let him play with anything sharp. Nor would she provide him with "running shoes". Lanky, Save up your milk and lunch money and go buy these things asap. Consider it a Valentines Day gift to yourself! Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Eyed Brain Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 That's a tough one. I wonder myself at times. I'm very confused and blinded at times. I need to figure out what I want. You are afraid of the abyss. You are in an abusive relationship but would rather suffer the angst of this than the unknown of separation from her. I see it this way because I am in the same situation. My husband controls me (or used to). I have asked him to move out if he wants to keep anything in our relationship. I can't live with the manipulation anymore..... I would rather be alone for the right reasons than to be with someone for the wrong reasons. ;) Link to post Share on other sites
SerenityX2 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Lanky, Please don't listen to anyone that says "tests" are normal. They're not. Only a woman that's insecure would need to do that, that said they need to work on those issues within themselves...or maybe maturity will show them that. That's basic communication 101 in a r'ship/M.."tests" are "games" and like I said utter b.s. No one needs/deserves that. A person should always be able to state, ask whatever it is they want to know. Then if there's a disagreement, a compromise is reached...not, "their way or the highway...that's selfish. M is a constant communication/compromise for the betterment of each other therefore the M b/c each of you is putting "the others" needs first instead of your own...so it's a "give and take"..grow and thrive nurturing partnership that's imperative to a healthy M. She can't seem to "get that" and it's all on you to change and give in..that's b.s. The snippets that I scanned through about the constant...and if you can't see it...it's pretty much constant nagging isn't going away, as you can see and will only get much worse when the baby arrives b/c now there's even MORE (in her eyes) competition for your time and attention. That makes me so sad about the spanish/guitar lessons...it seems if she doesn't have the leash on you she's not happy...again NOT healthy!!! It screams of insecurity. She threatened to burn your spanish books?!?!?! and to FORCE you to quit the guitar lessons?!?! Lanky, seriously if this was coming from a woman's perspective there would be no hesitation for the outcry of ABUSE. but it really is no different...please at least "start" to see that...YOU deserve so much more...you can't hold yourself hostage to this any longer. She's counting on the fact you have enabled her behavior all this time..that you are too weak/honorable (maybe a very big key on the honor)...don't let her guilt you into that...She needs help, if you're willing to stand by her side while she does that...that is your choice of course, but make no mistake...she needs it and soon. I shudder to think what you're going to go through when the baby does arrive...Can't you see that? The diaper will never be changed the right way...the bottle won't be warmed the right way...you're spending too much time with the baby...not enough time...nag, nag, nag...it won't go away until YOU stop it. Please see you have the strength to do this...you're not a failure if you can't make this work...perhaps you should have seen this at 19 y/o...but you can't rewrite history...you can only learn from and grow and thrive...you are NOT supposed to be this miserable in life..and the sad thing is she's been berating you for so long you're starting to become really desensitized to it. Please, please, please come out of this fog. Peace and happiness will await you...YOU need to take that first step...it's not easy but it will be so worth it...you just can't see that right now and it's understandable. Enough people have said this to you...I hope if you see it, read it enough it will start to penetrate. YOU have the strength to change this within you. Find it...believe it. GL Link to post Share on other sites
Zolie Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I'm glad that she sees herself in those women...but she doesn't seem to want to change. I am of the opinion that when people appear to change, they don't really "change", at first - they just finally accept that their family/friends/co-workers, etc have a problem with their behavior, so they learn to present a better attitude and behavior. But, deep down they still feel the same way; they just suppress it. The smart ones will figure out that, hey, the better behavior is more healthy for them and more pleasant for everyone considered, and before long they don't have to suppress anything because the negative/controlling/damaging behavior is no longer an issue for them. The not so smart ones will never figure that out, and will either continue with the behavior, or will suppress it, only to let it all out in nasty little spurts. Link to post Share on other sites
Zolie Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I keep forgetting about the baby. I think you mentioned somewhere that you won't leave your wife while the baby is on the way, because you don't want to do that to the woman carrying the child. I can't remember the details of the baby situation, but if this is an adoption situation, the mother won't be left stranded if you decided to not take the baby due to your marriage breaking up - there are hundreds of couples out there who would love to take that child when it is born. Forgive me if I have the details wrong, though... Link to post Share on other sites
wizer Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Lanky, Save up your milk and lunch money and go buy these things asap. Consider it a Valentines Day gift to yourself! That will take too long. Save your allowance money for it too. Link to post Share on other sites
Phateless Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Dude, how can you not see that this woman is completely off her rocker? I think you guys should both go to individual counseling, and then couples counseling. To me, she is the one that really needs help. I think even by herself, a counselor will have no trouble recognizing that she is causing all of this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Lanky, Peace and happiness will await you...YOU need to take that first step...it's not easy but it will be so worth it...you just can't see that right now and it's understandable. Enough people have said this to you...I hope if you see it, read it enough it will start to penetrate. YOU have the strength to change this within you. Find it...believe it. GL Wow, everything you said here was right. That was an amazing post. It gave me chills. You're right about the baby. I don't feed the cats the right way..I'm sure I don't feed the baby right. And yes, if I give the cats too much attention she gets jealous. It continues. I just worked with her ALL DAY getting rid of stuff and cleaning the garage/attic to prepare for the baby. We come in and sit down to eat with the Super Bowl on and she berated me because I was watching one of the commercials while talking to her. She says "THAT'S not putting your marriage first!" I said "It's the Super Bowl and the only sports game I've watched all year and the commercials are good...I worked all day. Cut me some slack." She responds "What so you want, a break from your marriage or something?" I said "YES. I was working with you ALL DAY. I want a break for a few minutes..." She was pissed. I realized today that I am acting like the typical abuse victim. I'm staying in the M thinking I deserve all this crap. But I'm afraid to leave because I fear the unknown and I fear more abuse if I do leave, plus I love her and think that she loves me, so I feel there's no reason to leave. This is the same thing that you hear from women that are being beaten by their husbands. This is pretty bad. And she's telling me just a few minutes ago that we need to go to a counselor because I think I'm always right (referring to the crap above with the commercial). Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 I keep forgetting about the baby. I think you mentioned somewhere that you won't leave your wife while the baby is on the way, because you don't want to do that to the woman carrying the child. The baby is genetically ours. We did in vitro and they put the embryos into a surrogate mother. I won't leave now because of what it would do to the surrogate, and it's OUR baby, so I'm not going to back out anyways. That would be a big mess... Link to post Share on other sites
Zolie Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 The baby is genetically ours. We did in vitro and they put the embryos into a surrogate mother. I won't leave now because of what it would do to the surrogate, and it's OUR baby, so I'm not going to back out anyways. That would be a big mess... Ah, yes, that's right. Well, then you are indeed in a fix here, and right to not end the marriage just yet. IMO, that means the ONLY solution here is to figure out WHY she is such a nag, and convince her she is making your life miserable. The key there is, figuring out why she does it. What is she mad/upset/insecure about? She says "THAT'S not putting your marriage first!" She clearly thinks you do not put the marriage first. Does she have any basis for that accusation, or is she just demanding your attention 24/7 because that is her definition of marriage? This whole thing disturbs me greatly, because there doesn't seem to be a good answer. You can't leave because of the precious baby about to be born. Yet, you can't stay in a relationship like this! If I had to sum it all up, it appears that: *her need to be in control of things in order for her to feel comfortable with her surroundings and her life, *causes her to "back-seat drive" your entire life, *which causes you to either tune her out, or snap at her, *or at the very least, causes you to withdraw from her in subtle ways, *which causes her to feel anxious and upset and abandoned, accusing you of not putting the marriage first, *and the whole cycle starts again, escalating to a fever pitch When you two were organizing today, was she completely in charge, needing every tiny detail to be 100% a certain way? And if you dared to put that box over here on that shelf, instead of over there on that shelf, did she become either nervous or disgusted, telling you it "had" to be over there on that shelf? Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Zolie, you have it down. Yes, I've kinda withdrawn from the relationship due to the constant nagging, drama, tantrums, etc. I'm disconnected from her in a lot of ways...and she feels it. It's been like this for a long time. We went to our first counselor in 1995 or so...it was fine for a while, but her control issues have gotten worse and worse. You're only getting my side of the story, but I think I put the marriage first. We took a quiz with these Marriage Fitness CDs that she bought and I scored almost 100% on that area. I'm very committed and I'm always home. I chose not to go on and do the PhD right after we got married...as she demanded. I support her financially (I work a lot and she works hard too) and emotionally (as much as I can). I don't drink, smoke, party, hang out with friends, play golf, watch sports, much TV or anything. I do play guitar and like to learn things like Spanish, but that's the worst thing that I can think of that I do...and she complains about it a lot...she hates it. I spent HOURS helping her clean set up for the 3 work/friend parties she's had at our house in the last month or so. I get A LOT done and have done everything I can to meet her financial goals (she gave me an ultimatum that she MUST stay home if I want to have kids) and I've taken on the the daunting task of finding a way to have a child when she can't carry one. She had the nerve to tell me I'm not supportive in the baby endeavor last summer but we've spent nearly $80,000 in the 18 months with zero complaints from me, and I've weathered her infertility depression, etc. We even went 6 months into the international adoption process while waiting to do the final in vitro attempt... I don't know what else I can do to support the baby thing... So I think I've put the marriage first... She wants me to focus on it 24/7 and I don't think that's how it's supposed to be. I think she's misinterpreting the books that say make marriage your number one priority...it has to be reasonable. She told me a couple of weeks ago that I'm miserable around her and that I've been that way for years. She told me to just leave if I'm miserable. She was actually kind of insightful that day. She was pretty good with the organizing today. She took charge of it..usually I'm the one who organizes the garage and attic. She wasn't being really bossy...just pushing me to work. She was on the phone with her grandmother for a half hour and she made it very clear that she wanted me to keep working while she was talking. Otherwise, it was pretty uneventful. She was in a good mood because we were getting rid of junk... Link to post Share on other sites
Zolie Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 When posting on forums like this, I always wish I could hear the other side of the story! Not because I disbelieve the one side that is being presented, but because I want to figure out what is making the other party do the things they do. What makes them tick? What is their rationale? What complaints do they have about their partner, the poster, that seem like perfectly valid complaints to them? It is so easy to just tell the poster the other party is crazy/bossy/abusive/temperamental, etc, but really, what if they have valid complaints and their real flaw is not knowing how to handle those complaints in a more productive manner? And can that be corrected? Dang, I knew I should have become a psychiatrist. I like delving into people's psyche's too much. Sorry to be so inquisitive! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Depression? It's possible, but she's been this way for a long time. Now she was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis 5 years ago and cannot seem to get out of the "why me" phase. When I suggest that she may be depressed about it or that she may want to talk to a counselor about it, she flies of the handle. I suggested it the other night and she said "now that really pisses me off." She thinks I did not support her when she was first diagnosed...she thinks I brushed her off and says that she lost a lot of respect for me since then. She thinks it's why our relationship is so bad now. I really don't think I blew her off....I don't think she handled it well at all, though...but it is a crappy and painful disease... I don't know if she'll ever go to counseling...she's pretty stubborn and relies on me for that kind of support. We'll see what the MC says when we talk to him together. Zolie may have a point that there is another side that is worth hearing. I would be curious what picture she would paint. Above I highlighted a couple of points. If she was diagnosed five years ago, then that means she had the pain longer than five years. now I do not know how much pain she has, but pain is a big irritant (needless to say) and a huge libido turn off. As a man who has a wife with diagnosed fibromyalgia (an autoimmune disorder that means she has pain frequently), I can say that this can be a the root of much or at least some of her anger. That is what seems to her main issue. Anger at you. While I do believe that you put up with a lot of abuse, if she thinks you do not understand her pain (which is hard for you to do because you don't feel it), then this will have an impact on her ability to be kind and loving towards you. Just a thought or two. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 While I do believe that you put up with a lot of abuse, if she thinks you do not understand her pain (which is hard for you to do because you don't feel it), then this will have an impact on her ability to be kind and loving towards you. Neither will the baby (understand her pain). Will this justify her abusing the baby, too? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Neither will the baby (understand her pain). Will this justify her abusing the baby, too? Two comments.... From personal experience, I can say that while my wife may show her pain to me, she can keep it well hidden from the kids. A mother can go to great lengths to protect her children but will not be so forgiving of a husband. And, in no way am I justifying her behavior. I am simply trying to offer some insight that may help understand her behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 OK, I 'll try to fill you in... She has painted the picture for the counselors we've gone to a a few times so I can give you an idea of what her complaints are. Her number one thing is that I don't make her feel special. I don't make her feel loved. As she puts it, I treat her "not nice." She refers to this as "emotional abuse." That comes up continuously. It was the main reason that we went to the counselors over the years. The counseling was all about me trying to find ways to make her feel special by leaving little notes and bringing little surprises home, etc. I never got into the name calling, control, unfair fighting, tantrums, or any of the issues that she had. I just thought they were normal, I guess...or part of her personality. I never mentioned them until our last visit in October when she refused to go back after that one session. Yes, her number two complaint is that I wasn't compassionate about her RA when she was diagnosed. BTW, her RA came on extremely rapidly...almost overnight. It came out of nowhere so she just started with the symptoms at the time of diagnosis. The pain has been managed the last several years since she's on good medication, but she feels that I didn't support her enough when she was first diagnosed and was in a lot of pain. She feels that I told her to "suck it up" in her words. She's told me that she's having a hard time letting that go...I can see that. In my defense, she was impossible to console and it was a constant "why me" "this sucks", etc. I really felt bad for her and I did what I could...it wasn't enough though. Unfortunately the relationship has been the way it is long before RA. The RA and the infertility situation that resulted were extra stress. She needs even more and more from me, but I think I've been disconnected for a long time. The breaking point was this past summer when she had thyroid cancer. Yes, and she's only 32 (she had a full recovery after surgery with no need for chemo, etc.) She was even more depressed about this and along with the RA and the failed pregnancy attempts, she was very down. Nothing I could do was enough. She even railed into her mom for not giving her enough attention the day after the surgery. We had a huge fight a month or two after her surgery about how I didn't give her enough attention. Divorce came up. At that point I was almost at my breaking point. I just didn't feel like I could support all of this anymore. I was totally drained and felt totally distant at that point. I think the problem is that we disconnected several years ago. Then all these stressful events came up and it really showed the cracks in our relationship. I've since been trying to get things back together, but since I've been doing reading and posting here I've realized that there are huge problems in our marriage. No sex, the verbal abuse, her self esteem and control issues, my disconnection, etc. When we went to the counselor in October I owned up to my not making her feel special, etc. as I've done in the past. But this time I told him about the name calling, etc. And I told him that it's hard for me to make her feel special because I just don't "feel it." The counselor quickly saw that there are huge problems coming from her side that he didn't know about the year before when we went for joint MC and IC for me. He then put her on the front burner for her self esteem issues and her strong need for me to make her happy, rather than her being happy with herself first. This is when he mentioned incompatibility, the huge disconnection between us, and the big decision that we'll need to make before the next session. After the session ended, my wife was livid and refused to go back to him. She just signed up with a new MC after the "sex test" episode last week. Basically because she's convinced that she's right and that we'll never agree on these things. We'll go in a week or so. So that's where we are. As long as I give her attention and make her feel special, she's happy. BUT it does not end the controlling and manipulative behavior. That is there whether she's happy or not. When I don't do an adequate job of making her feel special or when I stand up to her, things reach a boiling point and the huge fights start. Hopefully that gives you an idea. I tried to make it as unbiased and objective as possible...although that's impossible. Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Let me just say "Thank you" to everyone for reading and following this. I realized that I write A LOT and many of you are putting together thorough and thoughtful posts. I really appreciate it... Link to post Share on other sites
Zolie Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 LankyGuy;1522644] I think the problem is that we disconnected several years ago. Yes, I totally agree. When we went to the counselor in October I owned up to my not making her feel special, etc. as I've done in the past. But this time I told him about the name calling, etc. And I told him that it's hard for me to make her feel special because I just don't "feel it." I absolutely can see why. I was thinking that before I even read this sentence from you. After the session ended, my wife was livid and refused to go back to him. Why does this not surprise me? As long as I give her attention and make her feel special, she's happy. BUT it does not end the controlling and manipulative behavior. That is there whether she's happy or not. And this is the crux of the matter. Hopefully that gives you an idea. I tried to make it as unbiased and objective as possible...although that's impossible. No, you DID make it as unbiased as possible. I didn't mean to suggest that you weren't being biased, or that your side is not a true painting of what is going on. On the contrary - I think you are being more than generous in your comments about her, and that you are stating things quite accurately. My comment about wanting to hear her side, was more about my own curiosity borne out of a deep interest in psychological behaviors - I was saying I want to hear what she has to say, so I can assess what drives her to behave this way. Part of me is fascinated to witness bizarre behavior like this, for purely scientific reasons, and part of me is appalled that you are having to live with it. I must confess - I don't like your wife very much. (not that it matters a hill of beans what some stranger online thinks of your wife) I just picture such a petulant woman and I am amazed a grown up can behave this way. Do you mind my asking how old she is? Also, the more I read, the more I am convinced she is clinically depressed and that she suffers from the severe irritability symptom that is rare, but real for some people. Many of the things you have stated about her are things I used to do (to a smaller degree) before I got "well". Good luck, LankyGuy. Keep us posted on the MC session next week. Link to post Share on other sites
Author LankyGuy Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Thanks Zolie. I don't mind your curiosity. I try to look at it scientifically too...since that's what I do in real life :-) I was trying NOT to be biased but I AM...that's just the truth. That's OK if you don't like her...I don't take offense. But you probably would if you met her and hung out with her...just not if you were as close as I am. She's 32. She's an elementary grade teacher. She has lots of friends and teaching commendations. She saves all of her issues for me and a select few other people like my brother and her sister... She's in bed now, it's 1:30 a.m. and I'm gonna chill out, play my guitar a little, and do some thinking before bed....sleep is over rated ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts