The old "she wants kids and he doesn't" thing

[Alison]

This is exactly the kind of question that is going to elicit groans and “I don't you sos” and all. And in many ways, I deserve the condescension, the headshaking and ire. Thing is, though, while I can appreciate I've been rather arrogant and silly, I don't know what to do about it...

 

When my husband and I started going out, he made it very clear to be me that he never wanted children. He even detailed the reasons – he's “lazy” (I think it's the wrong word, but he's made a choice to only work his IT job a couple of days a week, as that fulfills his admirably simply material needs); he's short tempered (he almost never is with me, but he can be with other people and he's not a patient man); he thinks kids in Capitalist societies are a plague on the Earth and we should solve labor shortages through immigration; and every one one of his (male) friends who has had kids has regretted it.

 

None of this worried me. Not only did I fall in love with him very quickly (and love, love, love him still), but I found the idea of a man who didn't want kids to be a massive relief. I am pretty single minded in my approach to my work and the last thing I ever contemplated was ruining it by having children. Moreover, I never had a maternal instinct – I've never goo-gooed or gar-gared, I've never wanted to hold a baby, and the worst torture I endured as a teenager was having to babysit.

 

This position I maintained for five years and I was pretty sure it would never change. Last year, my husband and I were even looking into a tubal – now we're 35 some doctors were taking us seriously on that front. Then, a few months ago, I had a “chemical pregnancy" - I think it lasted about six weeks. My initial reaction to the blue line was one of absolute horror and cold, hard fear. But for the few days that I was “pregnant” I began to reassess things. I could do this, I thought. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I toyed with the idea – I imagined names, high schools, graduation. I set up a budget, and started trying to plan succession planning for maternity leave. I investigated childcare etc. Suddenly, I wanted to be a mother.

 

My husband had a totally different reaction. He freaked out in a big way. He wanted me to have an abortion (no way – in my situation I couldn't justify one!); then he talked adoption. When I started talking about keeping the baby, he was very far from impressed. He made it clear he would do nothing – no childcare, no feeding, nothing. He was massively angry. He sulked.

 

Then my period started and the ... well I wasn't pregnant anymore. He was visibly and vocally relieved. I would say that he celebrated. He clearly expected me to as well.

 

That should be it. However, the whole experience seems to have done something weird to me. I now have a longing for children I have never had before - a longing I can't intellectually justify. I've spoken to my husband about my change in feelings, and after some extensive talks he said that given a choice between me and a child and me and no child, he'll take the former. He said the deal is the same. He made it clear he will not do *anything*. I can not allow it to cry (he's suggested I move to my mother's for a bit if it does). I will have to pay for everything (not that much of a problem as I earn more than him anyway). He would still go away on weekends. He's life was not to change.

 

To be clear: I think it every bit my husband's right. He should not change just because I have. I knew what I was getting into when I married him. However, at the same time, this is not a deal I cannot accept, either for my sake or my unborn child's. I don't know what to do.

 

I wish I could shake my desire for a child. Really, I do. My mind is telling me: “no, you made you're choice. You have a great husband. Love him, support him. A child would ruin your marriage, your career, your freedom, your life. Grow up!!!” But no matter how much I try, I can't. It's making me resent my husband. The husband who I love.

 

Has anyone got any advice. Has anyone else been in this position? I have no idea what to do!

[amaysngrace]

Maybe it's empty womb syndrome?

 

It doesn't sound right to be opposed to something for so long and then do a complete turn-around.

 

35 is a magic number. Women over 35 shouldn't smoke if they take birth control and women over 35 need to have an amniocentesis if they become pregnant.

 

Maybe all this is playing on your head and you should maybe talk to someone about it?

[HisLove]

So really when you were pregnant, it was your second child. Your first child being your husband. Just kidding.

 

What you are experiencing is that biological clock ticking that affects many women. It's natural and it will not be ignored. It is a very strong urge. It has to be to keep our species going. It is not rational at all.

 

If your husband is so determined not to have children, why doesn't he have a vasectomy...or is one of those men who can't walk the walk.

 

I don't know what to suggest. He sounds incredibly selfish and immature as far as your wellbeing and needs are. Fair enough he doesn't want any children but he hasn't done anything to make sure he can't father any, has he?? To be jubilant when you lost something grates on me somehow.

 

Why is he the prize to you? I think you could find a man out there who wants to raise a family as much as you do. And not make you fund it solely, or go to your mothers if it cries too much...

[Alison]

Why is he the prize to you? I think you could find a man out there who wants to raise a family as much as you do. And not make you fund it solely, or go to your mothers if it cries too much...

 

Reading back over my post I realize how one sided it sounded - I wrote it in a rush and without thinking. No wonder you ask such a question.

 

My husband is a prize for so many reasons, I can barely begin to list them. He's brilliant, and funny, and entertaining. He's a man of high principals and ethics. He's incredibly supportive of my career, to the point of moving in order to facilitate it - how many men would do that? He shares most of my interests. He's my best friend, my sole confident. He constantly makes me smile, and laugh, and loosen up in ways I didn't think I was capable of. And that's only half the story.

 

I'm not idolizing him. He has faults. He can be selfish. He's not very self-motivated. He can get temperamental and be self-absorbed. I wish he'd save more, and care more about our future. But I knew all these things about him when I married him. Never has he pretended to be anything other than what he is. That's something else I love him for.

 

I feel I've betrayed him by changing. He's right to ask why things just couldn't stay the same. I too wish I could turn back the clock, but I don't know how!

[HisLove]

I can't help but feeling he's done a number on your self esteem over the years. He's supportive of your career. He's SUPPOSED to be. Of course he moved to support you, he wouldn't be able to just work a couple of days a week otherwise.

 

High principals and ethics...but does the happy dance when you miscarry his child. Okkkayyyyy.....

 

Is he booked in for that vasectomy yet? I thought he would have been running, not walking, after the last scare.

 

Things are continually changing in life. It's called life. Nothing stays the same. What you are experiencing is normal for a woman.

 

From your post I think things are very one-sided - but not from your side.

 

So when you got married, what was the underlying message of your vows, what were the promises you made, what was the intent and meaning? Do you think he's honouring those things with you?

[SeraBella]

HisLove said pretty much exactly what I wanted to say.

 

Changing the way you feel about this, is NOT betrayal. Everything changes in life.

 

He seems very selfish, lazy, and not willing to give anything.

 

Friends of mine (she's 30, and he's 33) never wanted children. They both thought they were certain about that. Then she found out she was pregnant. They both were terrified for a short while, but soon accepted it and were actually looking forward to it. She then miscarried and her entire life changed. They both realized at that point they wanted to be parents and they actually just had a baby boy 2 weeks ago.

 

Obviously, he was more adaptable than your husband is.

 

I have a cousin (he's 45) who has been married 4 times. All of his wives thought they didn't want children when they married him. But then their maternal instincts kicked in...every single one of them changed their minds at some point in the marriage. He was selfish and didn't want that. He admits that likes to be taken care of by a woman, and he doesn't want to lose his wife's attention to a child. He is now with a woman with grown children so she is able to focus on him and she is no longer capable of having more.

 

If you have a baby with him, I'm fairly certain your marriage will not survive it unless his attitude changes.

 

You have a very difficult decision ahead. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[a4a]

I think your H has been upfront, honest, and his reaction to your P was to be expected.

 

Some people do not want the burden of children. They know this, they do not hide it, and they are clear about the desire to not experience childburden.

 

He is probably happy with his life.

 

You should be honest with him. And if you think you want a child borrow one for a couple of days. Likely you will change your mind back to where it was.

 

You are thinking of the what if's, what could be's.

 

Your H should get a Vasectomy. It is less expensive, quicker recovery, and less invasive than a tubal.

 

If you are hell bent on having a kid..... tell your H, offer a amicable divorce, and do so.

[Frances]

If both partners go into the marriage with the intention of not having children then that is the terms of that particular marriage. If one partner changes their mind then another contract is needed. If the partners can not come to a satisfactory agreement then they need to part.

 

The pain involved when this happens is tremendous as I have seen from a niece's situation. She changed her mind after a number of years. Her husband agreeded to have a child, with out making any pre conditions. The irony is that nature stepped in and it turned out she could not have a child. The marriage has survived but not without a lot of pain.

[Enema]

I echo a4a's sentiments exactly.

[stillafool]

Yes it is your biological clock telling you time is running out and that's why you want a baby. Don't worry in a few years the desire will fade. I don't think your H is wrong in his feelings as he made them perfectly clear before you married. I nor my h never wanted children, however I love to hold someone else's little baby. They are so sweet, just not for me.

[sunshinegirl]

Even if you want to make some agreement with your H that he doesn't have to do a THING for this child, to the point of making you go to your mother's if the baby cries (!)... please at least think of the impact his behavior will have on the child.

 

Imagine being a child whose own father hates them, won't spend any time with them, and basically resents them for existing. You will not be able to explain it away with any amount of "Junior, your father isn't a bad man! He's okay for not wanting children, I'm the one who wanted you, and I love you!" Junior is still going to suffer tremendously from being rejected and unloved by his/her own father.

 

Please don't bring a child into this relationship as long as that is your H's attitude.

[Enema]

Also, don't think he will change his mind once the child is real.

 

He's just as likely to up and leave you as he is to settle into fatherhood.

[Alison]

I think your H has been upfront, honest, and his reaction to your P was to be expected.

 

Oh, I agree totally. Well, maybe not totally - I was very hurt by his attitude toward me when I fell pregnant, even if I can understand the reasons for it - but I don't think he's done anything wrong. As I said, I've betrayed him by changing my mind. I know that I have no right to expect him to change. I. Know. That. I also appreciate that I've placed him in an impossible position - his compromise of having a child on the basis he doesn't have to care for it is undoubtedly as unattractive to him as it is to me, albeit for different reasons. I hate myself for putting him in this position, for jeopardizing what has been until now an outstanding marriage. Yet I just can't seem to make the rational part of myself squash the desire for a child.

 

As for the vasectomy, he has a medical condition that makes surgery more dangerous for him than it is for me. Besides, there is a non-surgical option for women now (Essure).

 

Truth be told, I also volunteered. I didn't think about this too deeply until recently, but I've always been a bit concerned that the irrational maternal longing would hit me, and I was willing to have a tubal to stop it being a problem even if it did. Unfortunately, we seem to be too late.

 

Sunshine girl said:

... please at least think of the impact his behavior will have on the child

I have. As I said above, it's not an acceptable deal. I couldn't do that to myself, to the child, or to my husband. But the fact I know that isn't making it any easier to suppress my illogical desire.

[fluffy0]

Being a parent is one of the most special and meaningful roles in life for those who want it. When I was pregnant, someone said to me that the mother-child bond is the one thing no one can ever take away from you. You can lose friends, get divorced, change careers, etc. but once a mother, you never stop caring about your child. So, my point is, if motherhood is something you truly feel you want and it's not just post-miscarriage depression I think you shouldn't deny yourself that, because you will truly regret it. Your desire is not illogical, as you said, it's very legitimate.

 

Having said that, it's not fair to make your husband a father when he doesn't want to be one. it's clear that even if your husband concedes to you becoming pregnant he will not be happy with it and will want nothing to do with the child. There's nothing sadder than a kid who grows up feeling like they are burden to their parent.

 

So you've got 2 choices. Either you decide that not having a child is a decision you can live with and that your marriage is more important to you than becoming a parent, or you decide that you cannot miss out on being a parent no matter what because it's that importnat to you. if you decide the latter, I think the best thing to do is just tell your husband how you feel and separate. If you truly want whats best for your future child, i don't think it deserves a father who will detest his offspring. From your post, it sounds like you have a good job and if you have a good support network I don't see anything wrong with you raising either an adopted child or getting artificially inseminated (much cheaper and easier than adoption) or maybe even agreeing on getting pregnant by your current husband and then getting divorced but remaining good friends. No father is better than one who is around but makes it clear he wants no part in the raising of the child.

 

Whatever you do, just don't make any compromises with your current husband that you will stay with him as long as he "lets" you have the child but have you raise it. He's made his decision, now you ahve to make yours.

[ladyinwaiting]

I was in a similar situation to you a couple of months back, except that I was trying to make a decision whether to marry a man who didn’t want children rather than whether to stay with him. I spoke to a lot of people about this, including a counseller, and gave it some serious thought. Here’s my suggestion for what you need to think about:

 

(a) Do you actually like children? Do you want to comfort a crying baby, or make it shut the hell up? Do you give to children’s charities, or to animal or environmental ones? Do you go to late night movies to avoid teenagers in the audience? Do you like a clean and tidy house with a vase of flowers on the table and pristine walls? If the answer to these kinds of questions is “yes”, you may not be cut out for motherhood.

 

(b) In relation to the above, people always say “it’ll be different when their you’re children.” But what if it’s not? What if you have a disabled child? A problem child? What if the child isn’t clever? What if he gets in trouble with the police, or she gets pregnant at 15? What are your expectations and are you willing to have them dashed? I don't think I could cope with any of those things. Again, not a good sign.

 

© Do you really want a child, or are you looking for something else? I thought I wanted to be a mother, but then I sat back and reappraised the situation. What was it about motherhood that attracted me? I realised that it wasn’t the baby per se. I’m the kind of person who is always moving onto something new and challenging. I succeeded at school, career and sport, so why not motherhood? This kind of attitude was contributing to my desire to be a parent in a very unhealthy way and was not a good reason to have a child.

 

(d) Can you afford to raise a child, or to make the sacrifices necessary? I have a good job, but much of my salary goes toward servicing a mortgage on a small, child-unfriendly apartment. We can’t afford to upgrade the apartment and raising a kid in such an environment would be hell. I pictured our reduced circumstances, with a decrepit old house an hour from the city, patched up cars, no holidays and basic cable. Living in diminished conditions in order to have a child didn’t appeal to me at all. More evidence I’m not mother material.

 

(e) Would you be prepared to have a child by yourself? If you need to leave you're husband and can't find another partner, that may be the choice you have. In my life, I've met one man I wanted to marry. I’m no longer young, and if I moved on my chances of finding someone I was as compatible with are pretty slim. I don’t mind being single, but raising a child without a partner? That’s a big ask. I’m not sure I’d be ready to do that. Taking a risk and walking away from a man I adore in pursuit of a dream that may turn out to be a nightmare was not a bit attractive.

 

(f) What’s your marriage about anyway? Many of my friends got married in order to have kids and chose badly as a result. Others were marrying for financial security, and again, not all made good choices. I was marrying my best friend. I was marrying for companionship and love. My friends envy my relationship with my partner. Was I prepared to give that kind of friendship up for “maybes and what ifs”? No friggin’ way.

 

(g) Finally, just how much are you being influenced by societal or family expectations. What really solved my dilemma was my sister announcing her pregnancy. I was free of the responsibility - the family line would go on! It was incredible how much of my longing for my own child evaporated with that little announcement.

 

I'm not pretending the decision is any easy one. Hell, I lay awake for nights thinking things through. You need to try and step back and exercise some judgment. In hindsight, I can see that I was being influenced by my impending marriage, which openned up a range of possibilities that looked attractive for a little while. A bit like you, a pregnancy scare didn't help either. A couple of months on, and I'm glad I didn't succumb to the baby pressure. I'm back to my old beliefs and solidly behind a childfree marriage.

 

You've been through a lot and may not be thinking straight so don't do anything rash. Take at least a couple of months and think things through. Five years of good marriage is a lot to throw away for a possibility that may never be, or may turn out to be a nightmare.

Edited January 28, 2008 by ladyinwaiting

[quankanne]

all the things he's said about not wanting to be a dad in general … how does he respond to kids themselves (like cousins or nieces and nephews)?

 

sometimes people will talk a good talk because their afraid of what changes a baby brings, but actually enjoy being around kids. Not suggesting your husband is one of those guys, but you need to see if what he adamantly insists matches up to how he reacts around kids of different ages.

[a4a]

all the things he's said about not wanting to be a dad in general … how does he respond to kids themselves (like cousins or nieces and nephews)?

 

sometimes people will talk a good talk because their afraid of what changes a baby brings, but actually enjoy being around kids. Not suggesting your husband is one of those guys, but you need to see if what he adamantly insists matches up to how he reacts around kids of different ages.

 

Q I gotta say first I like the heck outta ya, but this is not a good idea.

 

You cannot tell someone to try to make decisions based on what you think you observe about them when they clearly state they are not interested.

 

I say this from personal experience. If you recall this very issue is what brought me to LS. My H and him changing his mind about wanting kids.

 

I don't beat babies, hell sometimes I am really nice to them..... but hell no I don't want one either. My reaction to kids does not match my overwhelming desire to always be child free. I don't care for cats either yet I will pet and play with them.... I don't want one! - lemme tell ya my H has 2 of em and I still don't like em. I tolerate them.

 

This is wrong to do to a man or a woman that states firmly they do not want children or a cat. Believe it or not, some people just don't want them. I realize it might be hard for you to believe..... and I find it hard to believe nobody wants a camel as bad as I do either.

[nittygritty]

If you were to die your husband would be legally responsible for raising a child that he did not want.

 

You agreed not to have children and you either need to honor that agreement or end your marriage and visit a sperm bank.

[a4a]

If you were to die your husband would be legally responsible for raising a child that he did not want.

 

You agreed not to have children and you either need to honor that agreement or end your marriage and visit a sperm bank.

 

yeah but then he would be so happy to have that child since his wife passed away..... part of her.

 

So how it can be justified.

 

He wants kids, he really does, he just doesn't know it.

[norajane]

I don't think your husband is selfish - I think he knows himself pretty well and he knows that he doesn't want the responsibility of a child, nor would he fare well with one in his life. Nor does he want to 'lose' his wife to the necessary care and feeding of a child. And frankly, I'm appalled at people who say he's selfish for having those views. Better to know oneself and avoid becoming a parent than to willy nilly have babies when you don't want them or can't care for them. Children are a huge responsibility and commitment and not everyone is interested.

 

Do you have to make a decision right this instant? Maybe give it 6 months or a year and see how you feel about it then, when you are less emotional about the miscarriage.

 

If you ultimately decide you truly want to raise a child for the next 18 years, then you have to say good-bye to your marriage. Making some kind of deal to have child won't make him a good father, and it will destroy your marriage as you slip off into motherhood and leave him on the sidelines.

[nittygritty]

yeah but then he would be so happy to have that child since his wife passed away..... part of her.

 

So how it can be justified.

 

He wants kids, he really does, he just doesn't know it.

 

 

Imagine growing up with a parent that resented your existance. Thats a horrible thing to do to the kid and your husband.

 

It can't be justified.

 

I am curious as to what kind of condition might prevent his ability to get a vasectomy?

[a4a]

Imagine growing up with a parent that resented your existance. Thats a horrible thing to do to the kid and your husband.

 

It can't be justified.

 

I am curious as to what kind of condition might prevent his ability to get a vasectomy?

 

I am sure that there are tons and tons of people that do resent their kids existance....... they will never admit it though.

 

Actually I know one guy that does admit it. Not to his kids or wife but he did to me.

And you know his hand was kinda forced in the issue...... I don't think he is a bad guy for admitting to it.

[nittygritty]

I am sure that there are tons and tons of people that do resent their kids existance....... they will never admit it though.

 

Actually I know one guy that does admit it. Not to his kids or wife but he did to me.

And you know his hand was kinda forced in the issue...... I don't think he is a bad guy for admitting to it.

 

I think its a crappy thing to do to a kid.

[quankanne]

Q I gotta say first I like the heck outta ya, but this is not a good idea.

 

You cannot tell someone to try to make decisions based on what you think you observe about them when they clearly state they are not interested.

 

I say this from personal experience. If you recall this very issue is what brought me to LS. My H and him changing his mind about wanting kids.

 

ah, I should've better explained my line of thinking …

 

the reason why I asked if her husband liked kids but put up a fuss is that's what my nephew, because he and his sister were gun-shy from their parents' divorce. Nephew was crazy about his sister's kids – and kids of friends, really kids in general – but was very vocal about having ones of his own. I guess because the divorce still had such a negative impact on him 20 years later.

 

meanwhile, he tentatively decides that he'll agree to try when his wife asks, and now that their little one is here, you'd never know it was the same boy who was so deadset about being a parent.

 

not saying this is the case every time, just wondering if there were any unresolved issues that lead her husband to say "no no hell no" rather than a sincere desire to not ever become a parent. Much like you've explained in your post

[norajane]

Nephew was crazy about his sister's kids – and kids of friends, really kids in general – but was very vocal about having ones of his own.

 

meanwhile, he tentatively decides that he'll agree to try when his wife asks, and now that their little one is here, you'd never know it was the same boy who was so deadset about being a parent.

 

Did your nephew tell his wife that he didn't want kids before marriage? Did she agree to that and then change her mind later?