"Let me eat and drink, for tomorrow I am to die"

[sb129]

 

But if you feel this is the way you want to live your life and you are not hurting people around you, then I think that is what is most important.

 

The joke is people who use religion to explain what doing something is "wrong" is all about have themselves only just adopted what someone told them to think.

 

If you have as a goal: "to live a relative happy and healthy life" I do think that the overwhelming majority of humans will come up with a system of morals which is very adjusted to society. Especially considering the fact that humans are a highly social creature so being on good terms with some kind of community will end up being an indirect goal for most.

 

Good post. Agree 100%.

[lovelorcet]

actually we think NOT as the world told us to think, we think as God and the Holy Spirit to tell us, Holy Spirit inside of us inspires us and put thought in us

 

In fact, most of people don't listen to God have tendency to hear what other 'authority' say, what others do, they image they think for themselves, actually not so, sometimes just collections of wrong informations

 

If one person hears voices they are delusional if a lot of people hear them its called religion.

 

I would think that taking a critical look at ones self and the society that one lives in the more balanced way of coming up with a system or morals.

 

And thank you for making your second point because this is exactly the problem with religious systems.

[Lovelybird]

If one person hears voices they are delusional if a lot of people hear them its called religion.

 

I would think that taking a critical look at ones self and the society that one lives in the more balanced way of coming up with a system or morals.

 

And thank you for making your second point because this is exactly the problem with religious systems.

what make you think they are delusional? just because you didn't hear it? what make you the ultimate judge for delusional or not? your ego is god?

 

Let's say that the whole world are full of blind people except three. the three people can see beautiful son, sea, flowers and colors. and the three persons decribe these to the rest of the world. then the world think these three persons are delusional, one of these three was convinced so, and pull his eyes out and became same as the rest. how sad.

 

God has impact on people, and Holy Spirit brings fruits to people's lives

 

Having faith in God and having relationship with God is very different from conformity which is dangerous

Edited February 1, 2008 by Lovelybird

[lovelorcet]

what make you think they are delusional? just because you didn't hear it? what make you the ultimate judge for delusional or not? your ego is god?

 

Let's say that the whole world are full of blind people except three. the three people can see beautiful son, sea, flowers and colors. and the three persons decribe these to the rest of the world. then the world think these three persons are delusional, one of these three was convinced so, and pull his eyes out and became same as the rest. how sad.

 

God has impact on people, and Holy Spirit brings fruits to people's lives

 

Having faith in God and having relationship with God is very different from conformity which is dangerous

 

I am not talking about conforming at all, if anyone is then that is you. You have conformed to a system of beliefs and morals which sometime have no rhyme or reason other than god said so. You have a book where you pick and choose what you want to follow.

[Lovelybird]

I am not talking about conforming at all, if anyone is then that is you. You have conformed to a system of beliefs and morals which sometime have no rhyme or reason other than god said so. You have a book where you pick and choose what you want to follow.

I laughed people who believe in God, then I was hit by God's supernatural power, a mystery experience. Holy Spirit convince me about truth and words of God in Bible, He didn't convince other books, so....

 

I don't conform to this world doing, most of times I am agaist the wrong doings which this world think 'normal', I can say people who believe in God is the one who has courage to do right things:D

[bridget]

I would say my motto is more along the "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I may die" lines, than tomorrow I will die. I guess that's something akin to seize the day, I don't think it's a bad attitude to take at all.

 

I, too, was raised within a religious household and had religious schooling (the mighty Catholicism, how we trembled in your wake) but I think it's a load of toot now. It hasn't impacted the way I've turned out - so far - other than manifesting itself in that period of 'crazytime' that others seem to have shared, when I threw off the shackles of catholic propriety and did some things that *gasp* actually made me feel good about myself and enjoy the life I'm living.

 

I have a more moderate life these days, which is what everyone is rightly recommending, but I make a point of not feeling guilty when I take drugs, drink, have casual sex etc etc etc because I feel that is my upbringing trying to burst out of my new self like the alien in... 'Alien'.

 

Personally I see no real problem with a bit of indulgence, a night of debauched excess every month as it may manifest itself for you. BUT, it seems that you do have something of a problem with your own behaviour, so a change is necessary for you. Marlena and others have given really touching and on the button advice, it's going to take some soul-searching. Don't think about what you need to change because you're a bad person, think about what you want to change to make you that person who is that little bit happier, more life-loving and happy with their place is this world.

 

Good luck with it, we're all muddling alongside you with similar ambitions.

[sb129]

I laughed people who believe in God, then I was hit by God's supernatural power, a mystery experience. Holy Spirit convince me about truth and words of God in Bible, He didn't convince other books, so....

 

No, but other religions think that THEIR book is the right one, and that they are the only people doing the right thing. What do you say to them?

 

I can say people who believe in God is the one who has courage to do right things

 

I can say that this is categorically wrong. Many people who believe in a god do terrible things in the name of said god that are wrong by nearly everyones moral standards.

Many people who DO believe in god won't help others who believe in a different god. There are many good people out there who do believe in a god. But to say that they are the ONLY ones who do right things is preposterous.

 

People who don't believe in god can do "right things" all the time. Just as they can do wrong things too.

Obtuse, blanket statements like yours above do your cause much more harm than good.

[lovelorcet]

I can say people who believe in God is the one who has courage to do right things:D

 

This is incredibly wrong and I really don't feel like wasting my time coming up with a list of all the atrocities done in the name of your god and all the other gods.

 

If this ignorance is your bliss than enjoy the Koolaid...

[shadowofman]

One really needs go no further than your typical Bushie Republican. Since when did Pro-Life and Pro-War ever compliment each other.

A couple thousand fetuses in the one hand, over 1 million dead Iraqis on the other. Just shows that most religious people completely disconnect their own commandments in favor of some other moral code, in this case patriotism.

[kchiapet95]

Personally I see no real problem with a bit of indulgence, a night of debauched excess every month as it may manifest itself for you.

 

I don't see a problem with it either. Except I think it may be starting to become a habit. I don't want to start looking forward to these nights of excess, because there's nothing more to look forward to. Marlena, Kasan and others know what I've been through last year, and that's why they were able to post certain things that were specific and unique to my situation. My concern is that I may be trying to dull some pain, and not deal with it...I'm wondering how all that relates to my past.

 

I have received some really excellent advice on this thread. I'm not sure how I feel about God, however, still, I can't reconcile him as a loving being. I don't want to squash anyone's hope, which is why I don't discuss my views with my mom, but I just have a hard time with this concept. I don't want to get too deep into that discussion. I just want to have a happy, balanced life. I think I may be doing OK.

[JamesM]

This is incredibly wrong and I really don't feel like wasting my time coming up with a list of all the atrocities done in the name of your god and all the other gods.

 

If this ignorance is your bliss than enjoy the Koolaid...

 

And one could bring up a list of atrocities done AGAINST those that believe in God simply because they believe in God. One could also list such murderous regimes such as Mao ZeDong and Joseph Stalin. Stalin became an atheist and then began his "cleansings."

 

I am fairly certain that the Bible, the Torah or the Koran do not condone killing. While murders have been done in the name of God, this does not mean that i is condoned by God.

 

The same is for atheism. While murders have been done by atheists, I highly doubt that the belief that there is not God leads to murderous atrocities.

[JamesM]

One really needs go no further than your typical Bushie Republican. Since when did Pro-Life and Pro-War ever compliment each other.

A couple thousand fetuses in the one hand, over 1 million dead Iraqis on the other. Just shows that most religious people completely disconnect their own commandments in favor of some other moral code, in this case patriotism.

 

The "problem" with your argument is that not all Bushie Republicans are typical, nor by far, not all "Bushie Republicans" are active Christians who are Pro-life and Pro-war. Personally, while I am Pro-Life, I have never been for the current war. Since I am a Republican who voted for Bush, I guess this classifies me as a "Bushie Republican." And you first talk of the typical Bushie Republican and end your "argument" talking about religious people. This is fallacious arguing. Or rather a false comparison. Not all Christians are Republicans, and not all "Bushie Republicans" are Christians or even religious people. And certainly not all Christians who are ProLife are also for this war, and I highly doubt that all of those who are for the war or even most are also ProLife.

 

I am guessing your argument falls apart.

 

But for the sake of argument, let's assume that "most" Bushie republicans are as you say. Then we move to your second paragraph. Since you make your comparison between international citizens such as Iraqis, then I must assume that your "couple thousand fetuses" is also worldwide.

 

Please take the time to read the statistics regarding abortions annually worldwide. Go about a third of the way down for the tables with numbers for each country. These statistics are provided by Planned Parenthood, and the Guttmacher is an extension of them.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/25s3099.html

 

The total number worldwide annually (done in 1999) was 45.5 million.

 

BUT...let's assume that you meant only the USA. Then we go here and again see what Planned Parenthood themselves show.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

 

In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.

 

I think that is a FEW more than a "couple thousand." Since IMO the evidence is quite strong that fetuses are human beings (since none have ever "grown" into anything else) and life begins at conception, then this is a lot of individuals killed each year.

 

So, while I agree that war seems contradictory to the ProLife stance (and do not personally agree with war unless it is in self defense), I think it would be better if accurate numbers are used.

 

Just shows that most religious people completely disconnect their own commandments in favor of some other moral code, in this case patriotism.

 

Not true. While many people condone the war, it is not as if all or most religious people condone war, nor do all or most non-religious people condemn war. I do not know statistics, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of each do condone this war. I am guessing that the percentages are similar in each group.

 

Sorry for the off topic response, but for shadowofman's sake to make his argument more valid, I thought maybe these corrections could be made.

Edited February 3, 2008 by JamesM

[FleshNBones]

1. Adopt good habits, and avoid starting bad habits. You should avoid drinking alcohol, and consider 100% fruit juice or water as an alternative. Try to eat better.

 

2. Learn something new instead of spending your time being depressed. Take a few classes, learn a new language, play with some recipes, work out, or whatever.

 

I am toying with bread making, dance lessons, cycling, and a few other things.

 

3. Don't burn bridges.

If your parents are overly domineering, try to keep a healthy distance, but don't remove them from your life. Your family is your family, and there is no changing that. Visit them every few weeks. Go to Church if they insist it during your visit.

In the case of Church, don't do anything sacreligious. If you decide to go back, going back with a clear conscience would be much easier. It is understood that some people need time away from the Church to get things in order before returning.

 

I don't like going to church with my parents. They put a lot of unnecessary pressure on me, and they detract from the service.

 

4. Avoid negative people. These are people who like to put other people down, or just say nasty things. I recommend avoiding the "Bush is a liar" crowd, becuase you may end up saying the same things about Bush and other people. This also includes the doubters who are incapable of doing anything, the adraneline junkies who get themselves into trouble, and the criminally insane who can get you arrested and incarcerated. They are unhappy people and you may end up being just as unhappy.

 

 

You should focus on making self-improvement a priority instead of indulging. You will be better prepared once you are ready to make a decision.

[shadowofman]

JamesM I stand humble. I was rash in my off the cuff rant. I am sorry for not knowing what I was talking about. That is a lot of abortions and from one person to another, I am sorry for grossly down playing the reality of your morality issue. I am still pro-choice however. Even if I could define a fetus as a human being, I would still value the lives of independent children and adults as more valueable.

 

As far as my first point. I am glad that you do not support this current war. I only appeal to your morality and ask that you reject all war, for even I agree that "Thou shall not kill", though I would add "ever, anyone!" to the end of it. (This where our fetus moral dilemma is most evident. A fetus to me is a growth of cells no different than a mole, unless you choose to cherish and nuture this mole. The woman's choice.)

 

And I would not concider you a Bushie in regards to the current war. Bushie's, as I define them, are blind followers of the Bush agenda. Pro-War, Pro-"Life". True double-speakers. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery.

With all due respect, I think this arguement holds up concidering I was not claiming that "all Christians are Republicans, and not all "Bushie Republicans" are Christians or even religious people." I personally don't even believe that Bush is a Christian. His god is money.

 

Anyway, sorry for that tangent.

[knaveman]

The truth...shhh, come closer. Don't tell anyone.

 

None of us can escape death, no one ever has. Live your life like it's the only one you will ever get. What ever is important to you, do it. When you are dying and looking back at your life, look back and say you had no regrets.

[Love Hurts]

Galatians 6:7

 

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

 

 

We are in charge of our lives.

[pureinheart]

A discussion with a friend yesterday led me to start reflecting on my views.

 

I was raised as a member of a very strict religion. I adhered as closely as I could until I was about 20 years old. At that point I started to rebel and by the time I was 22, I was completely out.

 

I used to attend church services 3 times a week for at least an hour per service. The result of this has been that I consider myself agnostic. Since I have that attitude, and since I was raised in such a strict environment, and since I suffer from depression (triple whammy) it's also led to me having this attitude described at the top of the post. I'm gonna die eventually, who knows what's at the end. When I was religious I was worried about punishment from God, and that wasn't good either, because my actions were motivated by fear, not out of love for God. Now, I just want to live my life, and enjoy it, even it it's not necessarily good for me.

 

This has caused me to take risks and chances and make poor decisions. I'm thinking I'll wake up one day at a certain age (say 40, just because it sounds good) and I'll say, "I want to live!" But because of all the damage I'm doing now, maybe it'll be too late.

 

Agnostics, atheists and religious people alike, I would like advice if you have ever faced this situation, how you have overcome this line of thought. I'm posting it in the spirituality section because I believe religion is a large part of my attitude, but my depression and my youth also account for this viewpoint. I'd like to change, but I'm not sure how.

 

This is a very honest and good post, you are a very "real" person....I haven't read the responses, so forgive me if this is a repeat.

 

Oh yes, this was the right place to post...."religion" and a "religious spirit" have hurt many people, leaving them confused about who God really is. Going back to Jesus's day, He constantly had problems with the religious leaders (Pharisees) rebuking them, calling them a brood of vipers.

 

I walked in a religious spirit for many years trying to be "perfect", although all that led to was self righteousness. I lacked compassion and was hard on everyone around me, including myself.

 

God allowed me to go through many things, and I re-visited a bunch of my old behaviors for the purpose of understanding. So that I would "understand" how people can get to "low" places in their lives and not criticise or be judgemental, but compassionate because I had either been there or re-visited my old destructive behaviors....I am still in some of them, BUT God loves me the way I am now and understands why I am here....I am not excusing my wrong doing, I am just loving God and the people around me (who are also imperfect) and myself so that someday these behaviors will perish.

 

This is what I have experienced with God....He is not sitting there waiting to pounce on me, He will allow me to go through both good and bad things, not because I "deserve" either one, but so that I will gain understanding of the truth, so that better choices will be made ect....

 

My suggestion to you would be to ask God if He is real to reveal Himself....say whatever it is you need to say to Him, He knows our hearts anyway, so hiding does no good....hold nothing back if you choose to do this....whatever it is it makes no difference.....say it....God is a big God and can handle it.....

[pureinheart]

The "problem" with your argument is that not all Bushie Republicans are typical, nor by far, not all "Bushie Republicans" are active Christians who are Pro-life and Pro-war. Personally, while I am Pro-Life, I have never been for the current war. Since I am a Republican who voted for Bush, I guess this classifies me as a "Bushie Republican." And you first talk of the typical Bushie Republican and end your "argument" talking about religious people. This is fallacious arguing. Or rather a false comparison. Not all Christians are Republicans, and not all "Bushie Republicans" are Christians or even religious people. And certainly not all Christians who are ProLife are also for this war, and I highly doubt that all of those who are for the war or even most are also ProLife.

 

I am guessing your argument falls apart.

 

But for the sake of argument, let's assume that "most" Bushie republicans are as you say. Then we move to your second paragraph. Since you make your comparison between international citizens such as Iraqis, then I must assume that your "couple thousand fetuses" is also worldwide.

 

Please take the time to read the statistics regarding abortions annually worldwide. Go about a third of the way down for the tables with numbers for each country. These statistics are provided by Planned Parenthood, and the Guttmacher is an extension of them.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/25s3099.html

 

The total number worldwide annually (done in 1999) was 45.5 million.

 

BUT...let's assume that you meant only the USA. Then we go here and again see what Planned Parenthood themselves show.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

 

In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.

 

I think that is a FEW more than a "couple thousand." Since IMO the evidence is quite strong that fetuses are human beings (since none have ever "grown" into anything else) and life begins at conception, then this is a lot of individuals killed each year.

 

So, while I agree that war seems contradictory to the ProLife stance (and do not personally agree with war unless it is in self defense), I think it would be better if accurate numbers are used.

 

 

 

Not true. While many people condone the war, it is not as if all or most religious people condone war, nor do all or most non-religious people condemn war. I do not know statistics, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of each do condone this war. I am guessing that the percentages are similar in each group.

 

Sorry for the off topic response, but for shadowofman's sake to make his argument more valid, I thought maybe these corrections could be made.

 

Hi James....I saw the discussion concerning abortion and had to respond....I guess I am a "Bushie" person too....

 

Concerning the war, Iraq is ancient Babylon, so there is good reason to believe God is in this war...just my opinion.

 

Abortion.....as a former crisis pregnancy councelor for Right to Life and it is also a learned experience (had 2 abortions myself) can say beyond any shadow of a doubt, that people do not realise the devastation abortion has caused....we are now experiencing an out of control society due to abortion. I could go on for hours with all of the stats....check out the web sites and you will be amazed and discusted.

 

God is always Pro-life, and many past wars were of God due to the evil in this world....

[pureinheart]

Galatians 6:7

 

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

 

 

We are in charge of our lives.

 

((((((((((((((((Love Hurts)))))))))))))))0h how I've missed you....I think of you often, and your daughter also and I just feel peace.

 

Life has taken a total 180 as my enemies are under Jesus feet....so much has happened and am connecting with my past...in fact am 17 again and forgiving and understanding many things...so how about you?

 

I just love you.....