Author Lizzie60 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 I guess I just don't know why it HAS to be married people for another person to have all the things on your list. After my husband and I split, I kicked my heels up real darn high. Just not with married men. I didn't do their laundry, had fun care-free sex, and when I got bored with them I just didn't call or accept their requests anymore. They knew the deal before hand so it wasn't like they could claim I tricked them or cheated. Lizzie, do you bother with single men or is it a MM or nothing? Not just MM, I have a few single friends... they all know I'm seeing other people, married or not... but I have more MM than single... it just happens like that. It's not a prerequisite that he be married... the chemistry is the important part. I have to feel comfortable with the guy, we have to be on the same page, in many aspects. Link to post Share on other sites
mopar crazy Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Ya know, I use to really get upset about Lizzie's lifestyle b/c I am a BW but I'm to the point where I don't care. The only thing that concerns me is the BW and the children getting hurt when they find out, and they will, eventually. Lizzie is happy what she is doing and while I don't agree w/ her choice of lifestyle I'm done jumping down her throat about it. She is actually a nice person. But I do know that she will always post things that I don't agree w/ and of course I will put in my 2 cents. Here I go Lizzie... Sex w/ my H is as good, well actually BETTER than it was when we met 18 years ago. Sex w/ the same person all the time doesn't have to get boring, you can make if fun! Of course I look at other men and think they are hot, but my H is the only hot man I want to have sex w/. Our sex life is far from boring. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 It's interesting that you can only find less than 10 reasons to have an affair.. I can find at least 20 NOT to.. and counting... Link to post Share on other sites
jerbear Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Because it gets you back in the saddle and the chase. Really good to know that you still have it. I've done stuff in Vegas and I'll just leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 How sad, but not surprising coming from Lizzie. Some people are just like that; unable to think of anyone other than themselves and those closest to them. Like Art, I can think of many more reasons not to have an A, than to have one. But that's just the way that I am. I don't need the thrills, the reassurance, or the emotional drama. Link to post Share on other sites
NotMyselfNEmore Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Wow! Out of everything I said, you picked on 1 line? I was actually defending your point. Last time. Link to post Share on other sites
Meaplus3 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Not just MM, I have a few single friends... they all know I'm seeing other people, married or not... but I have more MM than single... it just happens like that. It's not a prerequisite that he be married... the chemistry is the important part. I have to feel comfortable with the guy, we have to be on the same page, in many aspects. I was just wondering Lizzie..Why the chemistry is there with a mm and not a single one? AP:) Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 These points stuck out to me I don't know why I am like I am... I don't think I'm the only one either.. I never had to 'struggle' really... I don't feel I am doing anything wrong... I agree that he is in the wrong because he is the one making the decision, but you are getting involved knowingly that he is already married and maybe has kids. That makes you an accomplice in the crime. I do not see losers or abusers.. the MMs I see are great guys, amazing fathers... I know that for sure. This I disagree with. Part of being an amazing father is being a great role model and that is what he is not doing. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 This I disagree with. Part of being an amazing father is being a great role model and that is what he is not doing. I totally agree with you Mr P... no married man that cheats is an amazing father.. he even lies to his children on a daily basis as well.. His kids will learn the truth one day and realize how bad of a father he has really been ( Been there did that msyself with my Dad ). Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I totally agree with you Mr P... no married man that cheats is an amazing father.. he even lies to his children on a daily basis as well.. His kids will learn the truth one day and realize how bad of a father he has really been ( Been there did that msyself with my Dad ). Same here, only it was my mom. She told us numerous times that she ended it with the guy she was seeing, but she was proven to be a liar when my Dad asked her to call the OM and tell him the same thing and she refused. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't know how to word exactly how I feel.. easily disposable? Like a Happy Meal from McDonalds? :bunny: God love ya, Lizzie, you've given me a true appreciation for the less-exciting but definitely faithful spouse! Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I totally agree with you Mr P... no married man that cheats is an amazing father.. he even lies to his children on a daily basis as well.. His kids will learn the truth one day and realize how bad of a father he has really been ( Been there did that msyself with my Dad ). My MM never lied to his kids - he told them there was someone else, and why, and opened the discussion on why there was a state of warfare going on in the house, why he moved into the spare bedroom, etc. They were understanding and supportive, and they discussed the likelihood of his moving out, whether they would come with him or stay with his W, and all of those issues so that they were empowered to have a choice in the matter before it happened. When he moved out the kids chose to go with him rather than stay with their mother because he treated them with respect, and because they have a sound, close relationship. He and the kids are in counselling around the break-up (W refuses). The A brought him closer to his kids as instead of just avoiding the house as much as possible to avoid the abuse, he opened up discussion with the kids, spent more time with them and was open to different ways of seeing and doing things rather than the typical abused spouse behaviour previously. Standing up to his W's abuse has also helped the kids, providing an alternative model of dealing with that. Experiencing a normal, loving relationship has also helped him reconnect emotionally with his kids and has given him a perspective to communicate to them that the way things are at home are not normal, that that is not what loving adult relationships are about, and that it is possible - normal - to love someone and not want to hurt them all the time to make yourself feel good. The A has not made him a bad parent, it's made him a better one. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) My MM never lied to his kids - he told them there was someone else, and why, and opened the discussion on why there was a state of warfare going on in the house, why he moved into the spare bedroom, etc. They were understanding and supportive, and they discussed the likelihood of his moving out, whether they would come with him or stay with his W, and all of those issues so that they were empowered to have a choice in the matter before it happened. When he moved out the kids chose to go with him rather than stay with their mother because he treated them with respect, and because they have a sound, close relationship. He and the kids are in counselling around the break-up (W refuses). The A brought him closer to his kids as instead of just avoiding the house as much as possible to avoid the abuse, he opened up discussion with the kids, spent more time with them and was open to different ways of seeing and doing things rather than the typical abused spouse behaviour previously. Standing up to his W's abuse has also helped the kids, providing an alternative model of dealing with that. Experiencing a normal, loving relationship has also helped him reconnect emotionally with his kids and has given him a perspective to communicate to them that the way things are at home are not normal, that that is not what loving adult relationships are about, and that it is possible - normal - to love someone and not want to hurt them all the time to make yourself feel good. The A has not made him a bad parent, it's made him a better one. I bet he would have been a good father just as much without the affair. Treating his kids with respect, having a sound, close relationship with them, caring enough to seek counseling, spending time with them, standing up to abuse - none of this required having an affair to catalyze, and it was probably already in his good nature to do these things. And while modeling a good, loving relationship for kids is valuable, I wonder how much more valuable it would have been to their long term development had he modeled cleaning up and finishing the old, dysfunctional one before entering a new, stable one. I don't believe he was "made" a good father by the affair; I believe he already was a good father, and was possibly able to remain one, in spite of his affair. Now, if you argue that his marriage was clearly over, in the last throes, and just waiting for the paperwork to finish up, then you're talking about a whole different thing than Lizzie is crowing about, which relies on "being extremely careful" and deceiving the other family members (spouse and children) who are stakeholders in the existing relationship. That's different from what you are describing: your MM was exiting his marriage; Lizzie claims that her carefully hidden, secret affairs with MM benefit their marriages. And I agree with the posters who believe that virtually all of the benefits mentioned are characteristics of any relationship - very few of the benefits stated rely on the relationship being with a Married Person. So I wonder: what benefits are left over when you narrow the list to only those which are unique to having an affair with a married person? Edited February 1, 2008 by Trimmer Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 You are never satisfied and perpetually think the grass is greener You have low self esteem and need outside validation You think you are some feminist liberating herself from the shackles of marriage You think you are some player who deserves to have a thing on the side You blame your spouse for all your unhapiness and feel you are entitled to cheat Your no good friends talk you into it Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I bet he would have been a good father just as much without the affair. Treating his kids with respect, having a sound, close relationship with them, caring enough to seek counseling, spending time with them, standing up to abuse - none of this required having an affair to catalyze, and it was probably already in his good nature to do these things. And while modeling a good, loving relationship for kids is valuable, I wonder how much more valuable it would have been to their long term development had he modeled cleaning up and finishing the old, dysfunctional one before entering a new, stable one. I don't believe he was "made" a good father by the affair; I believe he already was a good father, and was possibly able to remain one, in spite of his affair. Now, if you argue that his marriage was clearly over, in the last throes, and just waiting for the paperwork to finish up, then you're talking about a whole different thing than Lizzie is crowing about, which relies on "being extremely careful" and deceiving the other family members (spouse and children) who are stakeholders in the existing relationship. That's different from what you are describing: your MM was exiting his marriage; Lizzie claims that her carefully hidden, secret affairs with MM benefit their marriages. And I agree with the posters who believe that virtually all of the benefits mentioned are characteristics of any relationship - very few of the benefits stated rely on the relationship being with a Married Person. So I wonder: what benefits are left over when you narrow the list to only those which are unique to having an affair with a married person? OK Trimmer, while I disagree on some of your points, I'll concede on others - I do think the A catalysed things for him; he'd been withdrawing from home life because of the abuse, and so his relationship with his kids was not as good before the A as it was once the A kicked in. But yes, there is a difference between that scenario and one which relies on secrecy and deception. But on that score, I think of my father's A, which was certainly a "secrecy and deception" model. My father was suffering from chronic depression before his A, which brought him to life in a way that improved his parenting. When he finally left my mother, after the kids had grown, and married his OW, the truth came out. Did I lose respect for him? No, not from the A - I lost respect for him when he refused to entertain divorcing my mother when we were still little, but I gained a little respect for him through the A (retrospectively) that he was at least prepared to do something about the unhappiness, albeit something I deemed insufficient as it didn't resolve the situation, merely band-aided it. I would by far have preferred him to leave my mother outright, but the A was at least better than nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 You are never satisfied and perpetually think the grass is greener - I don't know, Lizzie seems pretty satisfied to me! You have low self esteem and need outside validation - and she's getting it, in spades! You think you are some feminist liberating herself from the shackles of marriage - well at least she's living her life honestly, up-front and on her own steam, instead of lying and sneaking behind the back of her partner... which is more than I can say about the majority of MM out there who are living a lie. If that makes her a feminist, then more power to her! You think you are some player who deserves to have a thing on the side - what "side"?? Lizzie doesn't have a "side" - she's single! You blame your spouse for all your unhapiness and feel you are entitled to cheat - uh... OK, right. Your no good friends talk you into it - I have never seen Lizzie describing her friends encouraging her to do anything she didn't want to do. Nor do they judge her for the choices she makes. If that's a "no good" friend, I'll take that any day over a critical, judgmental one. Yeah, it's always the OW's fault, dragging down the virtuous, powerless MM. Let me guess, this is all part of the Adam & Eve story - they got kicked out of the garden all because of Eve, it was entirely her fault for eating the apple, and the only fault of Adam was being a schmuck for believing her when she encouraged him to take a bite. Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 My MM never lied to his kids - he told them there was someone else, and why, and opened the discussion on why there was a state of warfare going on in the house, why he moved into the spare bedroom, etc. They were understanding and supportive, and they discussed the likelihood of his moving out, whether they would come with him or stay with his W, and all of those issues so that they were empowered to have a choice in the matter before it happened. When he moved out the kids chose to go with him rather than stay with their mother because he treated them with respect, and because they have a sound, close relationship. He and the kids are in counselling around the break-up (W refuses). The A brought him closer to his kids as instead of just avoiding the house as much as possible to avoid the abuse, he opened up discussion with the kids, spent more time with them and was open to different ways of seeing and doing things rather than the typical abused spouse behaviour previously. Standing up to his W's abuse has also helped the kids, providing an alternative model of dealing with that. Experiencing a normal, loving relationship has also helped him reconnect emotionally with his kids and has given him a perspective to communicate to them that the way things are at home are not normal, that that is not what loving adult relationships are about, and that it is possible - normal - to love someone and not want to hurt them all the time to make yourself feel good. The A has not made him a bad parent, it's made him a better one. How old were the kids when he told them what was happening? Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yeah, it's always the OW's fault, dragging down the virtuous, powerless MM. Let me guess, this is all part of the Adam & Eve story - they got kicked out of the garden all because of Eve, it was entirely her fault for eating the apple, and the only fault of Adam was being a schmuck for believing her when she encouraged him to take a bite. I am talking more about cheating spouses than I am about Lizzie. I think that cheaters are selfish and weak and women are just as bad as man when it comes to betraying their spouse. Most OW are naive and unable to handle a normal relationship and that is why they chase after MM but the MM or MW is still the one in the wrong. Lizzie is a whole nother story. She would do nothing for me but her whatever floats her boat. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yeah, it's always the OW's fault, dragging down the virtuous, powerless MM. Let me guess, this is all part of the Adam & Eve story - they got kicked out of the garden all because of Eve, it was entirely her fault for eating the apple, and the only fault of Adam was being a schmuck for believing her when she encouraged him to take a bite. ................ Duh, Delilah....I'm just a simple straightforward guy. I don't get all these female manipulations and shenanigans. What ya see is exactly what ya get with me. Not like all you women with all your tricks, deceit and bitching. Now put down that apple and get busy with my snake before Eve gets back from work. Link to post Share on other sites
trifecta Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I am impressed. All these Married men All these payoffs All these stories All the crud *cough* Trimax:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Most OW are naive and unable to handle a normal relationship and that is why they chase after MM In my experience, it is usually the other way around. Oh and by the way, a lot of marriages are not normal either. Good point by point responses OB. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 How old were the kids when he told them what was happening? They're teenagers - plenty old enough for conversations of that nature. I have teens of my own and know how astute they can be about such matters. His kids had pretty much figured it out anyway, but appreciated him making the space to discuss it with them and include them in decisions that affect their lives. Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 They're teenagers - plenty old enough for conversations of that nature. I have teens of my own and know how astute they can be about such matters. His kids had pretty much figured it out anyway, but appreciated him making the space to discuss it with them and include them in decisions that affect their lives. That doesn't mean that they see it from the same viewpoint as their father. Sure they may appreciate him being open about his choice of lifestyle, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they respect his decision or his choice of lifestyle. Just because he was open about it doesn't mean that he is a good role model for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Just because he was open about it doesn't mean that he is a good role model for them. so true.. I knew my Dads' GF.. he used to bring her to work on occasion.. He was an open book on some things about it.. but I still didn't respect him for hurting my Mom and my Step Mom.. He was a terrible father by cheating on my Mom's and showing me disrespect Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedMM Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Excellent! It all speaks for itself! Everyone can decide for themselves what is right or wrong, it becomes crystal clear to you once presented with enough facts. More info! Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts