lunaceia Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Hi there, I would like some objective advice on something that is going on in my relationship. I have been married for 5 years, I believe we have a good relationships with normal ups and downs. My husband has always been 'the afraid for commitment type'. But he asked me to marry him, and many people say he has changed a lot because of me. But..He has a female friend to whom he seems kind of close. Or at least they like each other. No problem, I think. in the beginning we often met all together. But in the last years not anymore. Partly because of coincidence (busy lifes, traveling) but I also sense (a 'gut' feeling) that he doesn't like me to meet her, or that he is avoiding that we are all together. I have often wondered why...but then I think: I am probably just imagening this... But..he never calls her from home. Only when he is at work. Sometimes even straight after he left the house. There is not necessarily anything wrong with this eighter as he might do this to 'protect me' and not make me worried. She lives close to our house. But he is always with me at night. I was never suspicous of his actions. But..now he and her are both abroad for work (in different countries, I am sure of that!), and they have been exchanging a few emails, not many but a few. His last email greatly worries me. He says that he had been thinking of her all day yesterday, and he goes on making some romantic/erotic remarks, such as he dreamt of her seeing her naked on a horse in the desert...etc. It happended once before he sent her such an email (although less explicit) and I confronted him with it, but he said they have been friends forever and they just joke like this with each other... I believed him then. I actually felt like a fool...I am not supposed to read his emails, he was angry that I did and did not respect his privacy. Still, I feel confused. I feel disrespected when he writes these kind of emails. But then, he has the freedom to do this, no? Flirting doesn't mean cheating. But then, our sex life has been slow for some time, he wants less often than I do, he says that's just his rythm. But isn't that a bad sign? He is very caring always, in terms of holding me, kissing, showing his affection. But still...why does he write such emails to a female friend? I also have male friends, but I never flirt with them in such a way. I am basically upset and I don't know what to do. How can I find out the truth? Thanks for your advice! Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaSongbird Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Sounds like he is on the edge of an emotional affair if is not already in one. Never ignore your gut feeling, it's usually right. If he gets upset because you read his email, sometimes that is a smoke screen because he doesn't want to get caught. I would wonder why he felt the need, but if my husband wanted to, he could read any email I sent. Of course he is going to say she's a friend and there is nothing going on, but if he has to hide it from you, he's not feeling that is kosher either. If he wouldn't say (or type) it with you standing right, that's a clue it doesn't need to be said at all. Ask him how you would feel if one of you guy friends sent an email like that to you? I bet he wouldn't like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thanks for the reply. I probably should add that I am 4 months pregnant and my husband has been having difficulties adapting to the idea, even though this was not 'an accident'...this flirt/affair/whatever must have something to do with this, an attempt to escape by a man-afraid-of-commitment... But what do I do about it? Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 You have two feet; put at least one of them down! How long has he had this friendship? How does she respond to these emails? Would you say she treats you like a friend? Can you call her and talk to her? Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 I think they have know each other now for about 10 years, but their friendship grew closer, is my guess. He met her before he met me. She never sends long emails. But she replied a few times with "I like you a lot ;-)" and once she asked him why he did not send her a love letter-email. I have never been friends with this woman. I tried to, but I felt that she was not open to it. Once, when my husband was abroad, I had dinner at her house (this is about 4 years ago) and afterwards, she wrote in an email to my husband saying that "his wife" was over at her house (so, not mentioning my first name, how wierd...) and that she had prefered if it was him instead. He answer with something like: oh, if I do come for dinner, you should cook something nice. In the last two years or so, my contact with this woman is almost 0. I hardly see her, although she lives nearby, the last time was about 8 or 10 months ago. Once I saw her when I was together with my husband, in the distance, and she saw us, but didn't come to say hello, which I found wierd as she is a friend of my husband and I (his partner) hadn't seen her for such a while. My husband also didn't take the initiative to go up to her. Her behaviour fuels my suspiciousness. My husband has more female friends, and I never have any problems with them or with their friendship. But this one, I just have such a strange feeling about it, already for so long. She is the type that wouldn't care if a man is married or not and just go ahead with whatever she pleases. I thought about calling her and asking her straight in the face, but what if I am wrong and nothing is going on? I can't forbit their friendship. That's why I need to find out the truth first, but how?And I actually feel that she is not important, it is my husband who is pissing me off the most, with these emails. It's disguisting and disrespecting. I mean, I am carrying his baby inside. I don't want to made feel "the wife", unexciting and at home, someone you don't feel passion for anymore but who just cooks your meals. Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Eyed Brain Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 He's in love with her. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 He says that he had been thinking of her all day yesterday, and he goes on making some romantic/erotic remarks, such as he dreamt of her seeing her naked on a horse in the desert...etc. It happended once before he sent her such an email (although less explicit) and I confronted him with it, but he said they have been friends forever and they just joke like this with each other... Sorry but if he was only a friend he would not send her this kind of email... geeeezzzzz I just can't get it with women who believe the nonsense their husbands are telling them... You know I have a friend who is like him.. we fooled around once about 3 years ago.. he met a woman 2 years ago.. and he is still calling me 2-3 times a week at work, at home, he is still trying hard to get me in bed.. he doesn't even hide his 'desire' and at the same time he is talking about getting married with her.... go figure. I told him many times that I value his friendship and do not want to go any further... but he just won't give up.. he does send me those 'sexual' messages all the time... I know I just need to invite him home one night and trust me.. he will cheat on her.. and they're not even married yet. Ah les hommes! Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Did he ask you to marry him before or after you were pregnant? Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaSongbird Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Did he ask you to marry him before or after you were pregnant? She said in her 1st post they have been married five years and she's now pregnant.. so I would think the answer to that is no. To Luca: The more I hear, the more I think there is indeed something going on, if it is not physical yet, it may get there fast. I don't know if I would say he loves her, but he's seems to be attracted to her and his focus is somewhere other than his expecting wife. How you proceed from here just depends on how hard you want to push it. I'm the sneaky kind. I'd put spyware on his pc and find out if they talk using an IM service and get a full look at all their emails before I made up my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Georgia, you're right!! Oops. Seriously dyslexic moment. Sorry lunaceia...some people can't read!! Doh! Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks for your replies. I am still waiting to see how that woman is going to reply to the email my husband sent her. She didn't yet but she might be without internet access for a few days. I don't think he is in love with her. Actually, I think it has nothing to do with her or me. It has to do with the baby. This is a man who is extremely afraid of commitment, a baby is the ultimate commitment, isn't it? When I met my husband, he had never been married (and he was close to 40 when we met). He had been once before in a longer relationship, but he told me his relationships were never stable. He always wanted to get out at some point (when the woman wanted to get too close and demanded a stronger commitment?). Many people, incl his mother, have told me that he has changed a lot because of me. In fact, it was him who asked me to marry him while we had never discussed marriage (and yes, this was long before I got pregnant!). He moved countries for me. The weeks before my husband left for the trip he is on now, everything was fine between us. I felt close to him, there was harmony, we had fun together etc. He told me that he loved me, and even sent an sms as he was boarding the plane, that he loves me. I think if he was really in love with this other woman, he would not behave in this way. I think, being away from me and having the time to take a distance and think, he again freaked out about becoming a father. And isn't the easiest and fastest way to get out to flirt with another woman? Even if it is just an imagined way out? He actually also sends kind of flirty (but less explicit) emails to another female friend (such as: there is such a beautiful sun today, a sun that reminds me of your smile). Still, my husband is not the womaniser type. He is actually a bit shy, very serious, very commited to his work (he is an artist, so yes, difficult character). He is not the party-type. He is just very scared of commitment. And I can imagine it is a relief if you are able to divert your thoughts from a fearful something (becoming heavy and an emotional burden) to an exciting, light-hearted, non-committed flirt. Obviously, he likes her and he feels comfortable enough to send her an email like that. He doesn't seem to be worried to spoil his friendship with her, which could happen in case she would be offended with such emails. So, they have this comfort-zone. She is a single mother with three children and probably lonely. I have never seen her with a man/boyfriend. So having a man sending such emails probably boosts her self-esteem. And yes, my husband is an attractive man, he is good-looking and gentle. The question is, ofcourse, how far has he already taken it with her? Even though I don't think it's love, or that they have been in some kind of 'serious' and regular affair (impossible, because I am almost always with him), I am not sure if they have had sex etc. That might have happened. I have to gather more information (proof) I guess. I am thinking of talking to a mutual friend. Any more suggestions or thoughts are welcome...! Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I think you need to let him know what bothers you about their friendship and why. Your description of her attitude towards you is skewed and borders on disrespect. She is acting as though you are just the background noise in her world; she can ignore it for the most part. The problem is her reasons for why she prefers to ignore rather than include you. I can't think of any good reason for it and I can think of a few bad ones. It seems territorial of her and shes acting like he is her territory simply by not including you. Maybe your husband is clueless to all this. Maybe he isn't and just likes the ego stroking. Have you let him know how you feel? The only time I've dealt with a girl like this was an long time ago ex of my BF. She would make no eye contact with me, had no interest in being at least friendly and I would have to ask any questions repeatedly before she would even respond with a simple yes or no. It became obvious to others as well. BF said she would just get weird like that sometimes and he never liked it or understood why. She called one time when he was asleep and I knew she was having problems with her living situation. It was late and I answered his phone, since I could see it was her on the ID, in case it was an emergency. I said "ex's name, whats up?" and she hung up. This woke him up and he tried to call her back. She wouldn't answer. I told him I'd had enough and that I was going to try to talk to her about why I made her so uncomfortable. I sent her an email telling her I wanted her to feel welcome in our home and to be friends. She called him and complained about it while he and I were watching a movie. He straight told her if she had a problem she could talk to me about it because he did not see her side of things and if she wanted to remain his friend she would need to at least try to be friendly with me. So my advise to you is approach your husband gently. Tell him you have always felt froze out by his friend and you worry that she just doesn't know you well. Tell him you want to fix this because someone who has been a friend of his for so long must be worth knowing. Tell him you are going to make a true effort to establish a friendship with her. And hey; you should mean it too because if you can end up friends with her, mores the better right? Call her up and invite her over for dinner. Include yourself in their plans and friendship. If she continues to freeze you out, continue to try till it is blatantly obvious she is being rude. Any time you feel you need to address her attitude towards you, make sure your husband knows before you talk to her about it. Then you will be able to either get her out of YOUR territory, or find out what your husband is made of when it comes to really being your partner. Link to post Share on other sites
justice Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I think you should stop making excuses for him such as the commitment issue. Put your foot down and tell him you want the truth. If he isn't already in an affair with her, he's right on the edge. If you can't talk with him regarding this maybe you should make moves to have a serious talk with her and let her know that you find her behavior inappropriate to say the least. If your husband doesn't like it then tough crap. It sounds to me like you are going to need to take some drastic measures here, not just for yourself but for your unborn child. Your husband is gaslighting you and he needs to stop. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It sounds to me like he has been more than friends for a long while now. It would not surprise me to find that they have been having an affair for longer than you think. She has to be eradicated from your lives completely if your marriage has any chance whatsoever. The tricky thing is that your H will continue to lie and deny (with her help, of course) until you have solid proof in front of you. He will continue to gaslight you about the nature of their emails. Now that he knows you are really suspicious he will drive this affair so far underground that you will not be able to bust it open on your own. If I were you, I'd be considering hiring a PI. He knows how to hide from you, but he won't be able to hide for long from someone he isn't suspecting. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Thanks for your advice. This woman hasn't responded to 'that email' yet. I am sure she must have checked her emails by now. I am puzzled...there must be a comfort zone to send such an email...but why doesn't she respond then? The thing is, I think you can tell if someone is cheating because of their behavior/changed ways, but my husband is not behaving differently towards me. He seems the same, not more distant, not overly nice because he is wrecked by guilt, just the same. And I am really really watching him closely...but if I listen to him and his voice over the phone (he is still away) nothings seems to be wrong. He tells me that he loves me. He calls me rather than that I call him. Before he left, nothing seemed to be wrong. He was loving and caring. And actually, before 'that email' I had decided to make another effort to become more friendly with her. For me it's clear: I need to find out for once and for all what's up with that woman. I have told my husband several times in the past that her attitude towards me is bothering me. That I feel excluded, or rather, being excluded. He never says much, just that he is not aware about that she dislikes me, that she has no reasons to, and that I should make a bigger effort myself, that I should go after people if I want to be friends with them. He kind of puts the cause of this all with me. But obviously I am not stupid. I think the territory thing might be true, that she sees him as her territory (she is alone, lonely, he is a male friend, ready to give attention...she met him before me..)... I am going to try to find out a few things before my husband comes home after the weekend. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/red/smilies/wink.gif Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 She is not going to respond to your email. I'm sure she's read it, shown it to your husband and they've decided to just ignore it and downplay as no big deal (aka ignore and it will go away). Your H is VERY good a lying, hiding and deceiving you so whatever you are trying to find or see in him won't be found because he's become a master at manipulating and playing the game. He more than likely is one step ahead of you, trying to cover his tracks..And, because of this, consider a PI. Just be sure what you want to do once you bust him. Have a plan ready. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 She is not going to respond to your email. I'm sure she's read it, shown it to your husband and they've decided to just ignore it and downplay as no big deal (aka ignore and it will go away). Your H is VERY good a lying, hiding and deceiving you so whatever you are trying to find or see in him won't be found because he's become a master at manipulating and playing the game. He more than likely is one step ahead of you, trying to cover his tracks..And, because of this, consider a PI. Just be sure what you want to do once you bust him. Have a plan ready. the OP hasn't sent her husband's friend any emails yet. She is talking about an email her husband sent to his friend that worries her; the friend either hasn't responded to that email yet or did and the husband quickly read it and removed it. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Oops, sorry I must have misread that part. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I think you should stop making excuses for him such as the commitment issue. Put your foot down and tell him you want the truth. If he isn't already in an affair with her, he's right on the edge. It sounds to me like you are going to need to take some drastic measures here, not just for yourself but for your unborn child. Your husband is gaslighting you and he needs to stop. I couldn't agree with this more!! Lunceia it really does sound like you are trying to second guess the obvious. I don't know if your H is in love with this woman or if they are having an affair, but I can tell you this much there is definitely something fishy going on there. The signs are very apparent. He has this friendship away from you, what kind of friends do you keep away from marriage your spouse? the kinds of friends that a spouse might not approve of. AND she happens to be of the opposite sex... He ONLY talks to her from work not around you? what kind of friend do you sneak off to talk to? the kind you don't want your spouse to know what you talk to them about. And my guess is they are not planning a surprise party for you. Lastly you have seen with your own two eyes the types of messages they send each other via email. Your own gut tells you something is wrong here, stop second guessing yourself and listen to your instincts they are rarely wrong. Take it from me I was on both ends, the participant in an A and cheated on so to me the signs are very clear. Something isn't right and I doubt it is as simple as he is fearing commitment, yes that could be driving his actions but A's are also fuelled by people going through mid life crises and being overwhelmed by responsibility. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hello I don't see the commitment issue as an excuse but as a cause of a possible A. Our relationship has been under pressure a lot for about a year because of the baby-issue. We couldn't figure it out (I wanted it, he didn't). At some point I gave him the option to leave me, and told him it would be okay, that I didn't want to force fatherhood upon him. Instead, he (silently) agreed not to use any protection anymore. Three months later I was pregnant...if he wanted to end our relationship, why did he not leave then? The door was wide open... He has been trying to get used to the idea of having a baby, and he has been supportive of me, even told friends and family about it on his own initiative...still, I have worried about whether he would be really able to cope...I have even thought that it would be a matter of time that he would start an A with anyone...for men, usually, this is such a cheap way out... The proof I have of a possible A is that email he sent her, and her attitude towards me, and a feeling that something is not right... It is all very confusing, he is not a womaniser...he is a bit shy and kind of serious, not an air head...also, it would be so stupid to start an A with her. We live in a village, everyone knows everyone...our lives (work and private) are so interlinked...It is practically impossible to have a regular affair with her, as he is almost all the time with me.... In the last year, I have really tried to keep track of his moves, checking where he is, checking his cell, his work space, and usually he is where he said he would be... would he really bent over backwards to keep his relationship with me going and have an A with her?...I find that so hard to believe...it must be so tiring and time consuming to do that... Both my H and that woman are abroad, so they are not together to make a plan to hide their A better from me... I am definitely going to talk to my H about all of this when he is back. And demand the truth. But, if the worst-case scenario proves to be true, I still want him to stay with me until the baby is born. My baby is the most important thing right now. I won't let him get away and escape so easily. I also don't want a drama at this point, it's all bad for my health. But obviously, I also don't want to be disrespected. I have to be smarted than him somehow, and make him pay for what he's done, if it is true that he has an A. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 I had a long conversation with a mutual friend of my H and "that woman" (let's call her T). She said that she was not aware of the fact that they were involved, she didn't notice any changed behaviour, anything strange. But she said that T would not tell her, because she is a close friend my my H's ex-girlfriend (who I know as well), and they broke up because my H started a relationship with another woman (let's call her R). This ex suffered a lot because of this. But: at that time, there were rumours that my H was also involved with T, and not just with R. This mutual friend asked T about it, and she said that it was nothing serious...so she didn't deny it...eventually my H dropped both T and R because of me (I know...all very complicated). This explains my wierd relationship with T, why she has always been so distant to me, indeed like I was on her territory! I am sure my H did not cheat on me with anyone for years. But that might have changed around March 2007. Our relationship was quite under pressure then because of the baby-issue. I was away a lot. T was still waiting and willing. The strange emails started then...and these were not emails to just a friend, but to someone he had something with...I actually don't believe anymore that these emails are innocent. I don't think they are having a serious and regular affair (as I said before, it would be impossible from a practical point of view) but it could be a once-in-a-while affair. an escape for my H... So I am putting pieces of the puzzle together. I don't have 'real proof' yet of the affair, apart from the emails. I need to think about my baby and not get too stressed out about this. But obviously, I won't be running into my H arm's when he comes home next week. What shall I do? Confront him immediately? Confront her? Gather more proof and then confront him? Wait until after the birth and then see? Thanks for all your advice! Link to post Share on other sites
Author lunaceia Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 My husband came back, we had a few nice days together. I brought up the subject, and begged him to be honest. I said I'd rather know. He denied he was having an affair, he said we need calmness now to prepare for the baby. He said that they are just friends, he called it an informal friendship, as he has with more people (which is true to a certain extent), he said he wants to be with me. He told me that he never thought he would become a father, but that he felt since we are together and married, he wanted it for me. I felt it was a good conversation. He seemed sincere. Last week he went to visit her, but he told me about it before he went, and afterwards he told me about how she's doing (answering to my questions as I tried to be nice about it). Still I couldn't help feeling a bit tense, I needed reassurance. I couldn't help check his cell phone, and saw that he spoke to her everyday since he is back. I freaked out about that, why does he need to speak to her everyday? I went up to him and told him that I would like us to invite her for dinner. He said that was fine, but he also asked me why. I said, well, since you speak to her every day, she might as well come over and speak to both of us. So then he freaked out, that I checked on him. He freaked out very badly. He said that he feels he is being watched, and under surveillance. He said he doesn't trust me anymore. It's all a big mess. I said I was sorry I checked his cell, that I don't like to do that but considering what had happened I couldn't help it. But I felt so angry, about his reaction, so exaggerated. He became so arrogant. He attacked me personally in very mean ways. Have I done so wrong? What would he have done if he was in my position? And I wonder if he would have reacted in the same way if I wasn't pregnant. I don't think so. I have checked his cell before, and he wasn't angry about it then. Not to this extend. We talked today. I told him he can leave if he wants to, if he doesn't want this relationship anymore. He said it's up to me. He said he wants more autonomy (which is so ridiculous, he has so much independence and freedom from me already!). I need a stronger commitment from him to me and the baby, or else the relationship doesn't make sense to me. But I have no idea how to move forward with this. Should I just give up and leave him, and focus on my pregnancy and work? Men don't know what they've got until it's gone, isn't? Is there still hope? I do love him, and we had such a great relationship for so long (really, until the baby-issue!) Link to post Share on other sites
CorvetteKitten Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I hate to say it, but I think he really might be having the affair. If he got that upset, that quick, over HER... hes hiding something. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I agree with the above poster. Him getting that revved up over something that has happened before without such an extreme reaction is very telling. You gave him the option to leave and he said "whatever you want"?!?! I don't think a guy who was heavily invested in his marriage and upcoming birth of his first child would be so willing to drop it and leave unless part of him wants to leave in the first place. I don't know what you think inviting her to dinner will reveal at this point. It will probably just be really awkward. Hire a PI to find out; it doesn't sound like anyone is just going to come out and tell you anything. Link to post Share on other sites
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